Stock car race comparison/challenge

[MadMax]

Time to get on the list starting with the slowest group:

Beginners Hall: Lightweight cup race 1 - Driving Park Motorland
Car: Honda Beat '91 (used, no oil) / MR / 58HP / 760kg / 13.1kg/HP/ 91 A-spec by MadMax86

Beginners Hall: Lightweight cup race 2 - Tsukuba
Car: Honda Beat '91 (used, no oil) / MR / 58HP / 760kg / 13.1kg/HP/ 90 A-spec by MadMax86

Beginners Hall: Lightweight cup race 3 - Driving Park Beginners course
Car: Honda Beat '91 (used, no oil) / MR / 58HP / 760kg / 13.1kg/HP/ 91 A-spec by MadMax86

Obviously the lineup that you race against affects the amount of A spec points.

 

[Austin343]

Professional Hall: Tuning Car GP - All Races
Car: Opera Performance S2000 '04 (stock S3 tires, no oil change, downforce 6/6) / FR / 274HP / 930kg / 3.4kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

At the final four tracks, I won against a Fairlady Z Z-tune, HPA, RGT, Celica, and GT-R R-tune, which wasn't too bad; I needed to block a little on all the tracks except Tsukuba, primarily at the start line after qualifying first (four of the tracks have standing starts). Apricot Hill was a pain, though, as most lineups I tried were either too fast or didn't get 200. I eventually won against a lineup that was the same as the one I used at the other tracks, but with a BTR instead of the RGT and a CTR2 instead of the HPA.

Endurance races: El Capitan
Car: Chrysler Crossfire '04 (S2 tires, 13,600 miles, no oil change) / 194HP / 1361kg / 7.0kg/HP / 200 A-spec points
vs. in finish order:
Chrysler Crossfire '04, 2:14'41.764, fastest lap 1'58.572. Pits every 9-11 laps.
TVR Cerbera Speed Six '97, +~25 seconds. Pits every 11-12 laps.
Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport (C4) '96, on lead lap. Pits every 14 laps.
Callaway C12 '03, on lead lap. Pits every 16 laps.
Ford Mustang SVT Cobra R '00, +1 lap. Pits every 12 laps.
Aston Martin V8 Vantage '99, +2 laps. Pits every 11-12 laps.

Not an easy race. I had passed everyone by the exit of the double apex left on lap 1, and crucially, the slow Callaway was holding up the field and the TVR was in last place. I opened up a gap very quickly and pulled away even as the opponents' tires warmed up (because the Callaway was still leading), but I was disappointed and surprised when I saw the tires turning orange on lap 9. I pushed it to lap 11 anyway, but by then I had lost quite a lot of time on very dark red-orange tires. Then I pitted on lap 21, and every 9 laps after that. The TVR gained time on me on warm tires, but its slow pace on cold tires and it being caught behind the pack at the beginning doomed it.

I am convinced that this is the worst WPR that can win this race. Every other car with a worse WPR than the Crossfire is much too slow, hindered in large part by lack of gears as close as this car's. Still, if anyone wants to try, you can, but I suspect you would have to take a car with a WPR between 6.4 and 7 and wear it out, because every car above 7 is pretty useless.

 

[mcsqueegy]

Well done, Austin! I have the feeling that record will stay a long time! And do you realise your finishing time is less than two seconds from mine?? Instead of even trying to equal that, i'm going to increase my FF p/w ratio with the Motul Mugen Civic Race Car. Hopefully my driving is good enough 👍

 

[Austin343]

Thanks, mcsqueegy. Really the only possibility I can imagine bettering the Crossfire in this race is a fully worn Camaro IROC-Z, but I doubt it. It's also theoretically possible, I suppose, to bring something significantly slower than the competition and just block for 66 straight laps, but somehow that doesn't appeal to me. I have tried that Civic, too, along with many other FFs, but I just couldn't find the speed with it. Good luck, but I think you have your work cut out for you there.

The other thing I'm thinking of is running the whole race without a pit stop. Yes, I'm being serious; this thread inspired me. I'd say the GSX-R/4 is my best bet. I just hope I don't need fuel!

 

[alhajoth]

The other thing I'm thinking of is running the whole race without a pit stop. Yes, I'm being serious; this thread inspired me. I'd say the GSX-R/4 is my best bet. I just hope I don't need fuel!

That shouldn't be a problem, I've done both the El Capitan and New York races in the GSX without taking on fuel. I think I had 2 units left in both cases..👍

 

[Smallhorses]

Special Conditions: Yosemite Rally I : Easy difficulty
Car: Nissan Bluebird 1600 SSS Rally Car (510) '69 / FR / 129HP / 965kg / 7.5kg/HP vs. Audi Quattro '82 / 200 A-spec points!

 

[Austin343]

Amazingly this seems to be the first time this car has been used in this thread.

Beginners Hall: FR Challenge - All Races
Car: Mercedes-Benz SLK 230 Kompressor '98 (used, no oil change, S2 tires) / FR / 174HP / 1325kg / 7.6 kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

Pretty easy races, mostly because the AI in this event is "teh suck." If you told me they were racing on N2 tires, I'd believe you, because they're so slow in corners (of course, they actually are on S2s like most road car events). At Laguna Seca and Tsukuba, I had to choose a lineup with a slower car, the SC300, on pole (simply because there aren't enough laps to make up the 5 seconds from the rolling starts in all these races), but it still wasn't hard.

Edit: Beginners Hall: FF Challenge - All Races
Car: Honda Fit W '01 (no oil change, S2 tires) / FF / 99HP / 990kg / 10.0kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

These races weren't easy, but they were doable. At Midfield, Grand Valley East, and Motegi East, I had to get a lineup with a slow car leading (Opel Vectra, Mazda 323F, and Nissan Primera, respectively). I passed as cleanly as possible, but I did sometimes rub fenders, as these races are so short and have so few passing opportunities.

I also became the umpteenth person to 200-point the Sport Truck races stock in the Ram, and I did the series completely cleanly (after many attempts, mind you!) with the exception of a small three-wheel-off at Fuji. I've also done the 206 Cup in the rally car, like everyone else, on S1s, but that's not really anything of note.

 

[Austin343]

I just attempted the El Capitan endurance in the GSX-R/4 without pitting, as I said I would, but I could not win. That's because this car becomes a nightmare to drive with red rear tires. It felt like I imagine the Ford GT LM Test Car in GT5P would, in Spec I on professional physics, with N1 tires and no driving aids. Basically, I simply could not keep the car straight, and my lap times went from 1'50 to 2'15.

These are my successful recent races:

Beginners Hall: Spider & Roadster - Races 2 and 3
Car: Toyota MR2 Spyder '99 (used, no oil change, S2 tires) / MR / 125HP / 970kg / 7.8kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

I needed that awful (heavily modified) Elise in the lineup to get 200, and managed to find ones where it started fourth or fifth. Both of these races were entirely clean, or very nearly so. I'm still searching for one it can beat for 200 at Motegi.

Beginners Hall: Lightweight cup race 3 - Driving Park Beginners course
Car: Daihatsu Move CX '95 (Used, no oil, S2 tires) / FF / 49HP / 740kg / 15.1kg/HP / 145 A-spec points

I honestly didn't know I was copying you, Smallhorses, but this is a great little car for this race. I would have gotten over 150 points if I had had S1s on hand. The lineup I drew was very good, with three equally matched and relatively slow "boxes" starting up front and holding up a Copen and Cappuccino.

I did the Supercar Festival in the M5, too, but that isn't new either. I did, however, use Cien-free lineups for Seoul (S1s), Fuji (S2s), and New York (S1s). In the other races, the Cien was held up enough to not be a threat. All of the races were clean, save for a couple times the AI barged into my side or rear on straights.

European Hall: British GT Series - All Races
Car: TVR Cerbera Speed Six '97 (Used, no oil, S2 tires) / FR / 316HP / 1130kg / 3.6kg/HP / 146 A-spec points

Very easy races, done cleanly except for a couple rear-to-front and side-to-side contacts that weren't my fault. I chose to qualify for the last four races, but it doesn't make a lot of difference at the standing start races.

Edit: A very hard-fought 200 point sweep.

European Hall: La Festa Italiano - Races 1 and 3
Car: Lancia Delta HF Integrale Evoluzione '91 (Used, no oil change, S2 tires) / 4WD / 189HP / 1350kg / 7.1kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

European Hall: La Festa Italiano Race 2 - Cote D'Azur
Car: Lancia Delta HF Integrale Evoluzione '91 (Used, no oil change, S1 tires) / 4WD / 189HP / 1350kg / 7.1kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

For the open tracks of Infineon and Autumn Ring, I chose lineups with three Alfas, a Fiat, and the real threat, the other Delta, in either fourth or fifth. In both races, I passed the Delta relatively quickly and basically sealed the win by blocking it a bit and waiting for the FFs to go off-roading. Cote D'Azure was tough, though. I figured out I needed an Alfa 166 starting first to hold up the field, but ran out of patience before finding a lineup with that essential criterion that allowed me to use S2s for 200. So, while my lineup did have the 166 on pole, I had to use S1s, and it did work, after many retries.

Edit 2: European Hall: Pan Euro Championship - Races 1, 2, 4, and 5
Car: Jaguar S-Type R '02 (S1 tires, no oil change) / FR / 400HP / 1800kg / 4.5kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

European Hall: Pan Euro Championship Race 3 - Sarthe
Car: Jaguar S-Type R '02 (S2 tires, no oil change) / FR / 400HP / 1800kg / 4.5kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

I initially tried to run a championship against the XJ220 and Motor Sport Elise. Mistake. I smoked them at Opera and assumed that all but Sarthe would be easy, but I couldn't beat the Elise at Grand Valley and gave up early at Sarthe and Nurburgring. I did beat the Elise at Cote D'Azur, but I had to block on the uphill every lap. Then I went back and tried the championship again against a Cizeta and a BTR, and won at Grand Valley, but was way too slow at Sarthe and Nurburgring, even with some erratic driving from them. So I did those two races against single lineups. At Nurburgring, the Esprit Sport 350 was at the front, and I passed it at Aremburg on lap 2, having gained about 4 seconds when it went off-roading at the end of lap 1. The Elise was in the lineup too, helping me to get points, but posing no threat because of countless trips into the grass and sand.

Sarthe was very funny. I went for a lineup with the Elise starting first, followed by a Cizeta and a Cerbera, with a couple of slow cars rounding out the field. The lineup choice was very strategic, since as expected, the Elise spun out exiting Dunlop and collected the whole field! That allowed me to pass the Cizeta, but the race certainly wasn't over yet... I had bargained for wilder driving from what I knew would be the fastest AI car on the straights, but a ton of blocking sufficed to keep it behind me. I received many full-speed rammings in the rear between chicanes, but it never got past. In the end, it took itself out in the Porsche Curves and the Ford Chicanes, and the Elise, which had gotten very close by that point, spun out as well. Don't you love these races with modified AI, watching them overdrive their cars?

 

[Smallhorses]

Special Conditions : Tour of Tahiti (Reverse) : Easy difficulty
Car: Nissan Bluebird 1600 SSS Rally Car (510) '69 / FR / 129HP / 965kg / 7.5kg/HP vs. Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR Rally Car '74 / 200 A-spec points!

 

[Austin343]

European Hall: Tous France Championnat - Races 1, 3, and 5
Car: Peugeot 106 Rallye '03 (S2 tires, no oil change) / FF / 102HP / 890kg / 8.7kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

Since this car is known for its exceptional handling, I figured it would be a good candidate for this series, but its puny horsepower is a definite hindrance. At first, I raced against a lineup with a Renault 5 Turbo, but couldn't qualify ahead of it at any of the middle three tracks, and had to block it to win at Cote D'Azur. After hunting for a while for a good lineup, I came upon this golden one: both 106s, 206cc, 205, and Clio 2.0 (the FF). I then cruised to victory at SSR5, and redid Cote D'Azur without needing to block. Sarthe, of course, is hopeless no matter what the lineup, and Grand Valley is deceptively hard, as well. My qualifying attempt got me 3rd, a second too slow, and blocking two lines of cars from a standing start would be hard, anyway.

 

[RVDNuT374]

Manufacturer's Hall: Nissan- Race of the Red "R" Emblem: Twin Ring Motegi- Road Course

Car: '93 Nissan Skyline GT-R Vspec N1 (R32) (used, no oil, S1 tires) / 4WD / 275 hp / 1470 kg / 5.345 kg/hp / 185 A-spec pts. against the following lineup:

1. '84 Nissan Skyline HT 2000 RS-X Turbo C
2. '02 Nissan Skyline GT-R Vspec II Nur
3. '91 Nissan Skyline GT-R
4. '87 Nissan Skyline GTS-R (R31)
5. '01 Nissan Skyline GT-R M-spec

The AI stupidity is what allowed me to win this race. Incredibly, not one AI car was able to pass the leading '84 Skyline for the entire race. It took me 5 full laps to work my way from 6th to first, where I stayed for the rest of the race. 👍

 

[Austin343]

Japanese races: Japanese Compact Cup races 2, 4, and 5
Car: Mazda Autozam AZ-1 '92 (S2 tires, used, no oil change) / MR / 57HP / 720kg / 12.6kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

This was the car I tried first for this race, but I couldn't come close at Motegi or Tsukuba. It's awfully oversteery for something with 57 horsepower , and that was its downfall at the sweeping corners of Motegi East. I raced against lineup number 5, with four Vitzes and a March G#.

Japanese races: Japanese Compact Cup races 1, 2, 4, and 5
Car: Honda Beat Version Z '93 (S2 tires, used, no oil change) / MR / 58HP / 760kg / 13.1kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

This car is significantly better balanced but has a worse WPR. Strangely, with this car and some others, I could not get the same lineup number 5. The lineups seemed to start off the same, but then other cars started to get substituted and the lineups started to deviate. It doesn't matter, though, as it got 200 against three Vitzes, a Colt or a Micra (I ran the championship twice), and a Demio Sport. The first time through, I won the same races as with the Autozam, messing up my qualifying lap at Motegi. The second time, my lap was just barely fast enough to get the pole, and I successfully blocked for the win. Tsukuba seems impossible for 200 stock points, though.

Edit: I did this series Smallhorses-style, using five different cars.

Beginners Hall: 4WD Challenge race 1 - Grand Valley
Car: Toyota Celica GT-Four RC (ST185) '91 (S2 tires, used, no oil change) / 4WD / 210HP / 1460kg / 7.0kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

Beginners Hall: 4WD Challenge race 2 - Autumn Ring Mini Reverse
Car: Toyota Celica 2000 GT-Four (ST165) '86 (S2 tires, used, no oil change) / 4WD / 165HP / 1350kg / 8.2kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

Beginners Hall: 4WD Challenge race 3 - Suzuka
Car: VW Bora V6 4Motion '01 (S2 tires, no oil change) / 4WD / 201HP / 1540kg / 7.7kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

Beginners Hall: 4WD Challenge race 4 - El Capitan
Car: Lancia Delta HF Integrale Evoluzione '91 (S2 tires, used, no oil change) / 4WD / 189HP / 1350kg / 7.1kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

Beginners Hall: 4WD Challenge race 5 - Fuji Speedway
Car: Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85 (S2 tires, used, no oil change) / 4WD / 181HP / 1145kg / 6.3kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

None of these races ended up being difficult, even Fuji. Grand Valley, Suzuka, and El Capitan were all 100% clean (after a few restarts, anyway!), and Autumn Ring Mini could have been, but I ran out of patience after many, many tries, and settled for a couple AI touches with no offs. At Fuji, I avoided any offs, and my only contacts were relatively minor ones on my rear bumper, as the AI avoided ramming me at too high a speed.

I raced many different lineups, and probably only Grand Valley was reproducible (lineup 2), as I never reset. I did have to avoid the lightest cars, like the 205 and RS200, at the middle three races, but the specific lineup mattered little, as long as I didn't have the Ram or Land Rover, which brought down the points a lot. At Fuji, I first tried to win with a Galant, but it just wasn't fast enough. In the 205, I stumbled upon a really lucky lineup that had, in order (which is very important!): Delta, Evo V, Caldina, Legacy B4 SpecB, RS6. The RS6 really raised the points, I think, but it was trapped the whole race, and I got into first over the Delta out of the chicane on the first lap. I had to block some on the long straight, of course, where the Legacy and Evo caught up, but I didn't have to block at all on lap 2, and won by .75 seconds.

 

[mcsqueegy]

Couple of entries with one of my favourite cars...

Special Conditions: Tsukuba Wet Easy
Car: BMW 120i '04 / FR / 152HP / 1335kg / 8.8kg/HP / 200 A-spec points! (vs. RX-8 type S)
Not too hard, but you have to pass the AI by the corner after T2. I can only win against the RX-8 so far.

Special Conditions: Tsukuba Wet Normal
Car: BMW 120i '04 / FR / 152HP / 1335kg / 8.8kg/HP / 200 A-spec points! (vs. Callaway C12)
Same as above. I couldn't believe that I'd won with this car, but the Callaway goes off the track twice in the first lap! That takes Austin343's record by 1.7kg/HP

 

[Austin343]

Special Conditions: Tsukuba Wet Normal
Car: BMW 120i '04 / FR / 152HP / 1335kg / 8.8kg/HP / 200 A-spec points! (vs. Callaway C12)
Same as above. I couldn't believe that I'd won with this car, but the Callaway goes off the track twice in the first lap! That takes Austin343's record by 1.7kg/HP

Congratulations! But what the hell? I didn't even know the Callaway was an AI entrant! I thought the SL600 must have been the worst car, as it's both slow and erratic, but the Callaway must (somehow) be worse! You must have had to block quite a lot to keep the AI behind you, and it certainly couldn't have been easy in a 150HP car. Well done, I don't think I can top that. 👍

 

[Smallhorses]

Well, I've been without internet for a few days, but I've been putting some time into cleaning up my woeful showings in the Special Conditions Hall first time round. With some help from the list in Post #1 and other people's suggestions, most of the easy races are now at 200 points, except the Tarmac Rallies, although I have upped the stock points bar on all of those too! 👍 (Assuming we exclude the known Dodge Ram bug! )

Special Conditions : Umbria Rally : Easy difficulty
Car: Nissan Bluebird 1600 SSS Rally Car (510) '69 (Stock R1 tyres) / FR / 129HP / 965kg / 7.5kg/HP vs. Lancia Delta HF Integrale Evoluzione '91 / 144 A-spec points

Special Conditions : Capri Rally : Easy difficulty
Car: Nissan Bluebird 1600 SSS Rally Car (510) '69 (Stock R1 tyres) / FR / 129HP / 965kg / 7.5kg/HP vs. Toyota Celica GT-Four RC (ST185) '91 / 155 A-spec points

Special Conditions : Capri Rally (reverse) : Easy difficulty
Car: Nissan Bluebird 1600 SSS Rally Car (510) '69 (Stock R1 tyres) / FR / 129HP / 965kg / 7.5kg/HP vs. Toyota Celica GT-Four RC (ST185) '91 / 155 A-spec points

Special Conditions: George V Rally : Easy difficulty
Car: Nissan Bluebird 1600 SSS Rally Car (510) '69 (Stock R1 tyres) / FR / 129HP / 965kg / 7.5kg/HP vs. Toyota Celica GT-Four RC (ST185) '91 / 155 A-spec points

Special Conditions: George V Rally (reverse) : Easy difficulty
Car: Nissan Bluebird 1600 SSS Rally Car (510) '69 (Stock R1 tyres) / FR / 129HP / 965kg / 7.5kg/HP vs. Toyota Celica GT-Four RC (ST185) '91 / 155 A-spec points

Most of these've been done before by Austin343 or alhajoth, but there's no harm in verifying them as possible, especially as it upped my points tally! 👍

Special Conditions: Yosemite Rally I (reverse) : Normal difficulty
Car: Lotus Elise Type 72 '01 / MR / 120HP / 756kg / 6.3 kg/HP / vs. Toyota Celica GT-Four RC (ST185) '91 / 200 A-spec points!

Special Conditions : Tour of Tahiti : Easy difficulty
Car: Lotus Elise Type 72 '01 / MR / 120HP / 756kg / 6.3 kg/HP / vs. Toyota Celica GT-Four RC (ST185) '91 / 200 A-spec points!

Special Conditions : Grand Canyon Rally : Easy difficulty
Car: Lotus Elise Type 72 '01 / MR / 120HP / 756kg / 6.3kg/HP / vs. Toyota Celica GT-Four RC (ST185) '91 / 200 A-spec points!

Special Conditions : Grand Canyon Rally (reverse) : Easy difficulty
Car: Lotus Elise Type 72 '01 / MR / 120HP / 756kg / 6.3kg/HP / vs. Toyota Celica GT-Four RC (ST185) '91 / 200 A-spec points!

Special Conditions: Yosemite Rally I (reverse) : Normal difficulty
Car: Lotus Elise 111S '03 / MR / 154HP / 806kg / 5.2kg/HP / vs. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV GSR '96 / 200 A-spec points!

Special Conditions: Yosemite Rally II : Normal difficulty
Car: Lotus Elise 111S '03 / MR / 154HP / 806kg / 5.2kg/HP / vs. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV GSR '96 / 200 A-spec points!

Special Conditions: Yosemite Rally II (reverse) : Normal difficulty
Car: Lotus Elise 111S '03 / MR / 154HP / 806kg / 5.2kg/HP / vs. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV GSR '96 / 200 A-spec points!

And a few more new entries, with a new car...

Special Conditions : Tour of Tahiti : Normal difficulty
Car: ASL Garaiya '02 / MR / 198HP / 800kg / 4.0kg/HP / vs. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI RS T.M.E. '00 / 200 A-spec points!

Special Conditions : Tour of Tahiti (reverse) : Normal difficulty
Car: ASL Garaiya '02 / MR / 198HP / 800kg / 4.0kg/HP / vs. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI RS T.M.E. '00 / 200 A-spec points!

Strangely enough, although the ASL is worthy of 200 points vs the T.M.E. Lancer on dirt tracks & tyres, I tried it on snow tyres at Chamonix against the same car and it's only worth 130 points there!

 

[mcsqueegy]

Congratulations! But what the hell? I didn't even know the Callaway was an AI entrant! I thought the SL600 must have been the worst car, as it's both slow and erratic, but the Callaway must (somehow) be worse! You must have had to block quite a lot to keep the AI behind you, and it certainly couldn't have been easy in a 150HP car. Well done, I don't think I can top that. 👍

Yes, I didn't know the Callaway could compete either till yesterday! Although the SL600 is actually slower, the Callaway wastes more time off-track. Although I admit it wasn't clean passing him, he amazingly stayed out of my way by the second lap. It was funny watching his driving, you'd swear he was using N1's...

 

[Austin343]

Well, the AI can't properly drive any car above about 400 horsepower on sports tires in the wet, and it's always bad at driving the Callaway, so I guess it's not an enormous surprise... Now for something different. It seems a "cheater" car isn't the only one that can win this set of races.

Professional Hall: NA Sports - All Races
Car: Lotus Elise 111R '04 / MR / 189HP / 860kg / 4.6kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

To get 200 points, you generally need three of the fast cars in the lineup (Zonda, Spirra, 350Z, TVRs). Trial Mountain and Infineon were very easy, as you might expect, and done 100% cleanly. At SSR5, I needed a lineup with one of the slower TVRs, the Cerbera, starting first in order to win relatively cleanly, but I settled for a race with one small contact where the Spirra hit my fender out of a corner (otherwise completely clean). At Apricot, I found a great lineup with a C5 Corvette starting first, followed by the super-slow DB7, and then two TVRs and a 350Z. After many attempts, I did that cleanly, too. I reset and eventually got that lineup again for Motegi, which was indeed the hardest race, as expected. Unfortunately, the cleanest run I won was my first full try, in which I accidentally rammed the 350Z into a corner, but didn't knock it off its line much, and then made a bit more contact passing on the inside. The problem was that in every single run that was cleaner and faster, the Cerbera passed the Corvette before I could get into the lead, at which point it was race over. Who else has noticed this peculiarity with the AI, where they behave differently depending on what you do, regardless of whether you even get within several seconds of them?

One question, too. Smallhorses, if I do the FGT races as single races, and not a championship, am I allowed to do a rigidity refresh on the car I plan to use (the V12 LMR) when the chassis starts to bend? I'm unsure whether that counts as stock or not, since it merely returns the car to the condition in which you buy it.

 

[Smallhorses]

Yes, I didn't know the Callaway could compete either till yesterday! Although the SL600 is actually slower, the Callaway wastes more time off-track. Although I admit it wasn't clean passing him, he amazingly stayed out of my way by the second lap. It was funny watching his driving, you'd swear he was using N1's...

How clean is unclean? Just to clarify...
Incidental AI contact such as them running into the back of you is OK. Prolongued "riding" of AI cars in corners or out-and-out knocking them off the track makes a submission ineligible.

One question, too. Smallhorses, if I do the FGT races as single races, and not a championship, am I allowed to do a rigidity refresh on the car I plan to use (the V12 LMR) when the chassis starts to bend? I'm unsure whether that counts as stock or not, since it merely returns the car to the condition in which you buy it.

No. This question has been asked before. The rigidity refresh is a purchased "part" and as such renders the vehicle non-stock. (Changing tyres and oil are the only exceptions to this) See post #668.

 

[Austin343]

Thanks for the clarification, and sorry for not searching the thread. I thought it was possible that since it wouldn't be "improving" the car, as it would if you applied the refresh to a used car, it might be okay. What about buying a new V12 LMR when the chassis gets bent? Is that okay?

Professional Hall: Boxer Spirit - All Races
Car: Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi Ver.III (GC) '96 (Used, oil changed, S2 tires) / 4WD / 263HP / 1250kg / 4.8kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

I won Infineon and Deep Forest against lineups of all Subarus, which are slower than any of the RUFs, probably in large part because the AI doesn't know how to short-shift. They weren't too hard, but they weren't completely clean, either, as the AI delights in braking late and moving into its slot, regardless of whether you're there or not. Hong Kong was hard, though. I had to use a lineup with a Legacy in first, and the one I ended up beating had the Legacy followed by a WRX, an RGT, and two more WRXs. It was one of the dirtiest races I've submitted in this thread, but only because the narrow track offered no room to get out of the AI's way. I didn't benefit from any of the contacts, which were mostly caused by AI turning into my fenders as I was completing passes on the far inside with no room left. I didn't get by the leading Legacy until the final right-left on the last lap.

 

[mcsqueegy]

How clean is unclean? Just to clarify...
Incidental AI contact such as them running into the back of you is OK. Prolongued "riding" of AI cars in corners or out-and-out knocking them off the track makes a submission ineligible.

Nothing illegal, just when I outbraked him he tapped me during the turn, and he did ram me in the rear twice. Although i'm sure it can be done clean, I haven't achieved it yet. It might be easier against the SL600, though.

 

[Smallhorses]

Thanks mcsqueegy, you're all good then! 👍

Some more from me, not quite maximum points, but not so bloody far off!
Ups the bar for the stock points on these races quite considerably too.
Tonnes of fun to drive, and relatively easy clean wins.

Special Conditions : Capri Rally : Normal difficulty
Car: Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR Rally Car '74 (Stock R1 tyres) / FR / ?HP (160HP on garage screen) / 825kg / ?HP/kg (5.2kg/HP using garage value) / vs. Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi spec C (GD, Type-II) '04 / 194 A-spec points

Special Conditions : Capri Rally (reverse) : Normal difficulty
Car: Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR Rally Car '74 (Stock R1 tyres) / FR / ?HP (160HP on garage screen) / 825kg / ?HP/kg (5.2kg/HP using garage value) / vs. Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi spec C (GD, Type-II) '04 / 194 A-spec points

Special Conditions: George V Rally : Normal difficulty
Car: Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR Rally Car '74 (Stock R1 tyres) / FR / ?HP (160HP on garage screen) / 825kg / ?HP/kg (5.2kg/HP using garage value) / vs. Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi spec C (GD, Type-II) '04 / 194 A-spec points

Special Conditions: George V Rally (reverse) : Normal difficulty
Car: Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR Rally Car '74 (Stock R1 tyres) / FR / ?HP (160HP on garage screen) / 825kg / ?HP/kg (5.2kg/HP using garage value) / vs. Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi spec C (GD, Type-II) '04 / 194 A-spec points

 

[Open Addict]

Thanks for the clarification, and sorry for not searching the thread. I thought it was possible that since it wouldn't be "improving" the car, as it would if you applied the refresh to a used car, it might be okay. What about buying a new V12 LMR when the chassis gets bent? Is that okay? .....

I'm fairly certain with regards to LeadSlead#2's question and Toronado's question via PM, that the chassis refresh is forbidden regardless of circumstances.
hispeed's original definition of a stock car is "as it comes, purchased or won, with no modifications."
Since the chassis refresh is a purchasable modification from the tuning companies or the dealer, (like a turbo, exhaust or weight reduction which are also not allowed) so it too is forbidden.
If you have worn out the chassis, then you need to buy a new stock car or we'd end up in endless debate about who'd raced with worn cars but chassis refreshed, and if we had to keep adding extra mods as well as tyre changes to the post #1 list it all starts to become untidy.
So once again. Oil change is permitted. Tyre change within the rules stipulated in post #1 is permitted. Any other modification including wings, weight reduction, engine, suspension or chassis modifications are not allowed.......

@Austin343, See Smallhorses post from #668.

 

[alhajoth]

Endurance races: El Capitan
Car: Nismo GT-R LM Road Going Version '95 (S1) / FR / 301HP / 1580kg / 5.2 kg/HP / 200 A-spec

This car is surprisingly easy on the tires, making it a possible entrant for Laguna Seca. The stock gearing might be an issue though, I never got out of 3rd gear on El Capitan!

 

[Austin343]

@Austin343, See Smallhorses post from #668.

Thanks, OA. 👍 Apparently, I can't read.

I noticed that Clubman Cup hadn't been finished for all 200-pointers. Time to rectify that!

Professional Hall: Clubman cup - All Races
Car: Clio Renault Sport V6 24V '00 (S1 tires, used, no oil change) / MR / 225HP / 1335kg / 5.9kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

I did all races against different lineups, and most of them ended up having a slow car starting first and a Speedster buried somewhere in the lineup to boost A-spec points to 200. Deep Forest was incredibly easy, as expected - I had the lead by the end of lap one and won by twelve seconds over the MR2 (against the first lineup), 100% cleanly, without more than two wheels ever on the "grasscrete" or concrete. Clubman Stage Route 5 was only marginally harder, and again won cleanly versus a lineup with a leading 190E. Seoul was a bit tricky, but I got it in the end against a lineup with a leading Silvia. It was hardly the cleanest win, but it was all detrimental wall brushes and AI "squeezing," and most of the passes were contact-free. Motegi was pretty easy against a lineup with a leading HCD6, and had a couple minor AI contacts to ruin the cleanliness. Apricot was tougher, since any lineup with the 111R or Speedster was an automatic no-go because they would always get to first place astoundingly quickly with the standing start. I ended up beating a lineup with four middling cars (a leading 205) and a Focus to boost the points.


Edit: Something other than a Skyline for this event.

Professional Hall: Turbo races 1, 3, and 5
Car: FPV F6 Typhoon '04 (S1 tires, no oil change) / FR / 362HP / 1776kg / 4.9kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

Professional Hall: Turbo races 2 and 4
Car: FPV F6 Typhoon '04 (S2 tires, no oil change) / FR / 362HP / 1776kg / 4.9kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

Most lineups, but not quite all, work for 200 points on S1s, and most of them will be good for 200 on S2s. The four standing start races weren't too much of a problem, since they seem not to start you off with as big a deficit as the rolling start races. I won HSR almost cleanly (the S4 moved up into my rear fender as I was passing outside on the final corner of the race, as though it were trying to spin me out), Midfield maybe cleanly (three potential minuscule bumper-to-bumper AI contacts), and Tokyo and Fuji 100% cleanly. For all but HSR, I got lineups with slow lead cars, like any FF, the Delta, or the GNX, and avoided the very fast Esprit. This was particularly important at New York, which required a lot of patience to get a beatable lineup. I eventually dug up one with a leading Eclipse, then a Bathurst RX-7, a WRX, an Evo, and a Skyline. I got into third with clean passes by T2 of lap one, and the Eclipse managed to hold up the Evo until I had passed them both by the middle of the next lap. I passed every AI completely cleanly, but I was rear-ended a couple of times by AI, slightly rear-ended the Evo once, and got squeezed into the wall attempting to pass it on the first lap. So it required a bit of blocking to keep the lead, but it's possible to win with clean passes, fortunately.

 

[Austin343]

It's been done before, but at least it's a complete entry, unlike jdw's.

Blackpool racers - All Races
Car: TVR V8S '91 (Used, oil changed, S2 tires) / FR / 239HP / 1050kg / 4.4kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

Sadly, I couldn't win any of these races completely cleanly, due in part to the Speed 12, in part to the blindness of the other AI cars, and in part to the awful handling of this car. It felt numb and I could never tell when it was turning fine or excessively understeering. Suzuka, SSR5, and Opera were all pretty easy, with lineups where the Speed 12 started either fourth or fifth. I had to carefully choose lineups for Laguna Seca and Fuji, though. At Laguna I had the V8S leading and the Speed 12 fifth. At Fuji I recalled seeing many races at the various iterations of this track where the AI have braked hard to avoid slower cars in front rather than trying to pass, and tried any lineup with the Speed 12 in fourth or fifth to see whether it would slow down enough for me to pass it entering turn one. And I did indeed find one - it braked to 40 mph to avoid the T350C, and I passed everyone but the leading Griffith entering turn one. I passed the Griffith in the second to last turn, and then had to block the Speed 12 a ridiculous amount for the rest of the race, primarily on the kinked downhill straight before the hairpin, and of course on the main straight. It's within the rules of the thread, although getting a 30 mph speed boost seems a tad unrealistic.

Beginners Hall: MR Challenge races 1, 2, and 5
Car: Toyota MR2 1600 G-Limited SC '86 (Used, no oil change, S2 tires) / MR / 128HP / 1070kg / 8.4kg/HP / 200 A-spec points

I was surprised nobody had 200 pointed Autumn Ring yet, and it was pretty easy in this car. For these three races, I faced lineups with both NSXs, starting no higher than third, and while I couldn't do any of these races completely cleanly, either, they were not terribly difficult. Beginners Course was the hardest of the three, simply because there's nowhere to pass. I ended up against a leading Elise, which slowed the field nicely, and passed mostly on the outside of the longer curve. Still, I didn't take the lead until the final corner of the last lap. Fuji and New York might be possible, but they'd be really hard, and would require a perfect lineup.

 

[alhajoth]

Finally, a 200 point entry that's not a Ram for Umbria:

Special Conditions : Umbria Rally (reverse) : Easy difficulty
Car: Honda Element '03 / 4WD / 159HP / 1560kg / 9.8 kg/HP / vs. Renault 5 Turbo '80 / 200 A-spec

What is the deal with the transmission on this one? It's 4-speed, but you only need 1st.. With a custom tranny, this car might be able to do a lot of the special conditions-races for 200..

 

[Smallhorses]

Finally, a 200 point entry that's not a Ram for Umbria:

Special Conditions : Umbria Rally (reverse) : Easy difficulty
Car: Honda Element '03 / 4WD / 159HP / 1560kg / 9.8 kg/HP / vs. Renault 5 Turbo '80 / 200 A-spec

What is the deal with the transmission on this one? It's 4-speed, but you only need 1st.. With a custom tranny, this car might be able to do a lot of the special conditions-races for 200..

The transmission on the Element is awful in stock form, forget any race with a standing start in it as it bogs down to about 1000RPM and takes an eon to build revs.
However, as suggested, with only the addition of a close range transmission the Element is really useful for easy level Special Conditions races, particularly the icy and dirt courses. That does of course render it ineligible for submission here though.

 

[Smallhorses]

Repeating a few more of Austin343's find here to boost my A-spec tally still in stock cars before I resort to tuning and N tyres in the manufacturers hall.

Special Conditions : Umbria Rally : Hard difficulty
Car: Renault Clio Sport Trophy V6 24V Race Car '00 (R1 tires, minimum downforce)/ MR / 293HP / 1150kg / 3.9kg/HP / vs. Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car '85 / 191 A-spec points

Didn't find this too difficult, if you stay clean but close behind through lap 1, the AI makes a mistake in the tight chicane just after the start on lap 2 and you can easily pass him down the hill before the tighter hairpin.

Special Conditions : Umbria Rally (reverse) : Hard difficulty
Car: Renault Clio Sport Trophy V6 24V Race Car '00 (R1 tires, minimum downforce)/ MR / 293HP / 1150kg / 3.9kg/HP / vs. Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car '85 / 191 A-spec points

Trickier to pass here, and as Austin343 mentioned he's all over the road in most places. Sticking clean and close, I was able to note that after the hillclimb from the hairpin he's very slow through the fast corner into the chicane before the start line and is easily outbraked here provided you get a good line through the chicane, which drops sharply to the left and can often throw you into the wall.

Special Conditions : Capri Rally : Hard difficulty
Car: Renault Clio Sport Trophy V6 24V Race Car '00 (R1 tires, minimum downforce)/ MR / 293HP / 1150kg / 3.9kg/HP / vs. Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car '85 / 191 A-spec points

No worries with this one, keep it tidy on the climb up the hill and through the fast section over the top and you're all set for an easy pass at the hairpin at the end of the downhill section.

Special Conditions : Capri Rally (reverse) : Hard difficulty
Car: Renault Clio Sport Trophy V6 24V Race Car '00 (R1 tires, minimum downforce)/ MR / 293HP / 1150kg / 3.9kg/HP / vs. Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car '85 / 191 A-spec points

Took a few more attempts to get this right, and the AI won't hestitate to rear-end you if you brake properly for the first tight hairpin. He's slow, and runs wide in the same hairpin that you take him into in the forward direction. Pass there on lap 1 and try to pull away as much as possible to avoid being caught and rear-ended at the beginning of every lap from there in.

Special Conditions: George V Rally (reverse) : Hard difficulty
Car: Renault Clio Sport Trophy V6 24V Race Car '00 (R1 tires, minimum downforce)/ MR / 293HP / 1150kg / 3.9kg/HP / 191 A-spec points vs. Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car '85

No worries with this either, did it exactly as Austin343 described, it's easy to hang with him through lap 1, and he'll make a mess of the last corner. Plain sailing from there.

Cannot get near him on the forward direction of George V Rally though, not sure what sort of superhuman skills Austin343 has to be able to pull that one off.

A new entry though:

Special Conditions: Swiss Alps Rally (reverse) : Hard difficulty
Car: Mitsubishi CZ-3 Tarmac Rally Car '02 / 4WD / ?HP (320HP on garage screen) / 1200kg / ?kg/HP (3.8kg/HP using garage value) vs. Lancia Delta S4 Rally Car '85 / 200 A-spec points!

Piece of cake, hang with him through lap 1 and he'll spin out on lap 2. Cakewalk from there.

 

[alhajoth]

There is a small error in the list:

Special Conditions: Chamonix Rally (reverse) : Normal difficulty
Car: Pontiac Solstice Coupe Concept '02 / FR / 243HP / 1318kg / 5.4kg/HP / vs. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR GSR '04 130 A-spec by RVDNuT374

Couldn't replicate this, and when I looked up RVDNut's original post,(798) it appears that entry was actually for George V normal reverse, not Chamonix.

 

[MinoltaMan89]

I'm currently trying the El Capitan 200 with an R34 Skyline GT-R '00, just the "base" version. 200 A-spec. So far, everything is going smoothly. I'm having close competition with a Lotus MotorSport Elise. He has some huge turbo, and he weighs less than half the mass of my Skyline, but I have AWD and more driving skills. I was about a second ahead of him, but he's pulled ahead by 5 seconds. Hopefully I'll take him and then I'll be a member of Club 200!

EDIT: I screwed up and quit. No Club 200 for me.