Stock -vs- Tuned: It's been too long.

Should Tires be an Upgrade?

  • Yes, it's just another Upgrade.

    Votes: 93 33.5%

  • No, it can provide to much of an advantage.

    Votes: 120 43.2%

  • Totally Depends on the car at hand.

    Votes: 65 23.4%
  • Total voters
    278
Starting to think of a Ep. 3 Match-up..

Subaru Impreza STi vs Audi R8 4.2 FSl ??

EDIT: After looking through some comments.. I actually might do a user suggested match up this week.. seen some really cool ones. Also, I will have a lot more free time this coming week, so expect maybe some extra episodes 👍 Sunday, wednesday, and Sunday :)
 
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Awesome write-up, it's ironic that you did a write-up about the C5 Z06 vs C6 Z06 because a similar topic is currently being discussed on another forum I post on. The question at hand is whether someone would prefer to purchase a C5 Z06 with a built 427or a bone stock C6 Z06 instead. But back to this thread, I'm definitely going to subscribe to this...
 
MOTORTRENDmitch
Starting to think of a Ep. 3 Match-up..

Subaru Impreza STi vs Audi R8 4.2 FSl ??

EDIT: After looking through some comments.. I actually might do a user suggested match up this week.. seen some really cool ones. Also, I will have a lot more free time this coming week, so expect maybe some extra episodes 👍 Sunday, wednesday, and Sunday :)
Click to expand...

I vote on this match. 👍
 
  • HKS CT230 R '08 vs Mitsubish Lancer Evolution IX GSR RM '05
  • Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione '08 vs. Ferrari SP1 '08
  • Gran Turismo Formula Gran Turismo vs. Ferrari F2007
  • Dodge Challenger R/T RM '70 vs. Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08
  • Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR '08 vs. Dodge Viper GTS R Concept '00
 
Time to shake this up just a bit.

Infinity g35 coupe '06 vs lexus isf

Ferrari 512bb vs corvette zr1

Viper gts 02 vs ford gt '06

Renult cilo sport vs lotus evora
 
BobbyBRAKEaNek
Great job. I would suggest limiting laps to 5 each and use the average. Although post the fastest lap.
Can't wait until the next one.
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This^.

Great write up but my impression is that it didn't beat the C6 until many laps later, I'm sure if you now did unlimited laps in the C6 with the intention of beating the C5 you would!

Great though, looking forward to next one!
 
phil_75
This^.

Great write up but my impression is that it didn't beat the C6 until many laps later, I'm sure if you now did unlimited laps in the C6 with the intention of beating the C5 you would!

Great though, looking forward to next one!
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Might do that actually, cool idea :)
 
Actually your right, but we found out, the STi would have destroyed it.... we would have a 130k budget to make up only 3ish seconds... I will pick a suggestion that some one posted
 
Welcome to Episode 3 of Stock -vs- Tuned! This week we have chosen a match-up that was suggested to us by GTP member: VspecZR1GT2RS89. Thank you for the compelling comparison idea, and compelling it was indeed. Nissan Skyline R32 vs 2009 Nissan GTR SpecV, so sit back, relax, and on with the show.

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Before we begin the tests, lets have a look at our two contestants shall we? The R32 2.6 Liter inline 6 produces 312 horse power and 295 ft-lbs of torque to all four wheels. It weighs in at 1500KG. So all in all it is a relatively average car on paper. Moving on to the GTR R35 now, 3.8 Liter Twin Turbo V6 that produces 502 horse power to all four wheels. The GTR is packing some extra gut how ever, and tips the scales at 1680KG. Now by buying the R32 we've saved 104,400cr to put back into it, and with that kind of budget you would think it's the R32's race to lose.. We will soon see.

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As always we take the car to the runway strip and get some numbers down, and the R32 surprises us,
0-60: 5.001 0-100: 12.301 1/4 mile: 13.6 0-1 Mile: 34.258 and was able to achieve a top speed of 168.3MPH.
Definitely not a slow car by any means. Then we got into the R35 and got some crazy numbers,
0-60: 3.370 0-100: 7.889 1/4 mile: 11.685 0-1 Mile: 29.238 Top Speed 201.6 .. Very fast. It really does blow the R32 away. With all the performance data down lets see how it translates to the track.

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At the track the R32 is great to drive, very grippy yet you can always get the rear to kick out when you want. The car has snap reflexes, very impressive for a car from the mid 90's. It doesn't pack a very big punch on the straights, but that really comes at no surprise, having only moderate horsepower levels. It takes a few laps to really get the hang of since the car is prone to considerable understeer. Our average time over our first 5 laps was 1:20.454, not too shabby. With an un-counted amount of laps emerged 1:19.687, very close to the Honda NSX from Ep. 1. The body roll this car has may have taken away from the lap however, it's not a bad lap at all, but now we'll see what the R35 SpecV can accomplish.

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Right out of the gates you know that this car is on a whole 'nother level. The 1st little straight that the lap starts on, the SpecV achieved a higher speed than that of the R32 the whole stint we tested it. It is a much easier car to drive; less under steer, less body roll, almost non-existant oversteer even if you try, and massive over all grip. People say this car has no soul due to it's lack of driving emphasis. I, on the other hand, think that is what gives it it's soul. It shows just how far super cars and automotive technology has came in the past 10 years. You can have a car with break neck acceleration, crazy grip, great brakes, and still have creature comforts, and not to mention room for 4. All with the vulgarity of a V6... Amazing when you look at it and compare it to what super cars really had to offer at the turn of the century, but enough of the history lesson, lets see some more numbers! The average of the first 5 laps we ran came out to be 1:14.104, and our fastest lap, a 1:13.538. Not a big increase between average time of first attempts, and the best lap. Goes to show how easy this car is to be fast in. As it stands now, this car is nearly 7 seconds faster than the R32, which may sound like a lot, but 100,000cr sounds like a fair bit as well.. Only one way to find what car is the better decision.

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It took some decision making to figure out what upgrades we would equip the R32 with, we knew it was desperate for some straight line speed, and it wasn't a heavy car to begin with, so we actually "played it by year" We started with the Stage 1 Weight Reduction, which really lightened the car up, so we stuck with only the 1st stage. Other upgrades included: Stages; 1,2, and 3 Engine upgrades, High RPM Turbo, Semi-Racing exhaust, racing air filter, ECU tune, height adjustable suspension, and a sports exhaust manifold. We also "Moderned up" the car with a Dual Clutch, 6 Speed Close Ratio transmission. Which in part proved to be a bad idea.. We originally only bought the Height adjustable suspension, and the 6-speed close ratio tranny, but that left us with a car that couldn't handle and could only go 170MPH. We then decided we would get rid of the tranny, keep the twin plate clutch, and buy the FULLY customizable suspension. Proved to be the right decision.. Anyway, the new car.

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With those upgrades, the car has about zero relations in terms of driving to its stock counterpart. 608 Horse power!! 448 lbs-ft of torque. That's almost double what it was when we had last checked! Rev limiter sets in at about 9800 RPM rather then the 8200 it was originally. Now weighing in at 1380KG this car on paper is an R35 Killer. The new exhaust note on the car, mehh, we could take it or leave it. I'd personally leave it.

2z6guiu.jpg

In past tests I've learned that giving a car 600+ HP usually makes it fast.. This? No Exception.
0-60: 3.305 0-100: 6.985 1/4mile: 11.171 1 Mile: 27.546 Top Speed: 210.8 MPH. Yikes! It obliterates the R35's times beyond 60MPH and when we lined them up together it left the R35 in the dust. It's time to head to the TGTT again to witness what would appear to be the demise of the R35. Correct?
First sharp turn...

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"Total power corrupts, totally!" .. This saying has never spoken truths so clearly to me before. This car is unbearably .. Bad. Snap oversteers, uncontrollable understeers, you name it and this car probably had the problem. Sure on the straights the thing was an absolute rocket, turns came by to pay a visit though, and the rocket turned into a balloon with a hole in it. I thought that with time getting used to the car we could settle it down, nope. Tuning the suspension to balance out the increase in power? Nope. The rubber we laid down during this run must have been against some kind of law. It was horrible, and it wasn't even a predictable slide. It was a car that just took patience, if you let your focus slide for a few seconds, you end up missing your mark - by about 10 feet..

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There was no winning with this one, we just had to run the laps and see what we could come up with. Average first 5 laps came out to be 1:15.233, which wasn't looking good for the R32. With a countless amount of laps we managed mid-to-low 1:14's but it just wasn't going any faster. I managed a clean, yet fast lap, and it still couldn't match the R35.. our final time: 1:13.853. Missed it by about Three Tenths. Shucks.

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We have a new addition to the Stock -vs- Tuned Series, and it is Nurburgring Lap time. We have some GTP Heavy weights on the team to get full potential out of the car because me doing a lap time would never be doing the car justice. So we handed the 3 cars: Stock R32, Tuned, and Stock R35, to the NurburgStigs to see what they were capable of. Piloting the Stock R32, Mac K was able to run 8 minutes dead. Nothing to laugh at that's for certain. The Stock R35 was able to fly through the ring in 7:09. Now for the true test, could the R32 muster up a 51 second climb? We handed it to the best in the business: Mike_GT3 to get full potential out of it. It's time: a 7:21. It was just not meant to be faster. Mike said he wasn't able to get a fully clean lap in, but he didn't think the 7:09 was a realistic goal for the R32, it was just too violent, and this coming from the guy who holds a ridiculous amount of GTP Records around the ring.

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In conclusion, we can finally confirm that it isn't always the best idea to buy and tune the cheaper car. Was it more fun then the R35? Depends on what you think fun is, my opinion: NO. Fun is when the car is controllable even in the worst of slides. This just isn't, and it's that lack of control that reflects negatively on the Lap times. Sure the R32 may be more nostalgic, but, one word of advice, leave it stock. It looses any "nostalgia" it once had when you start throwing upgrades on it. The technology and the good old engineering excellence that the R35 has to offer is far too much for this classic sport car to handle, and that is where we will leave you. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Stock -vs- Tuned, I certainly did. Have a great day.

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Thank you for reading this weeks episode! I'm sorry that it was late, it was hard getting all the pictures rounded up for this one. Please leave some comments and suggestions for future episodes and we will certainly consider them:tup:

SvT Team
MOTORTRENDmitch - Writer, Test Driver, Photo shoot
Turbolefty78 - Editor
SebaEspinosa93 - Test driver, Photo shoot
Mike_GT3 - Nurburgking
Mac K - NurburgStig
Jesse208 - Test driver​

We are also looking for some one to be a photographer. See this.
 
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And again another great write up. I'm already anticipating the next one :)

How about a kublewagon vs shwimerwagon.....
 
Great write up! Glad you finally finished it;). I look forward to helping out again, PM the next match up when you decide so I can get some practice in before I hot lap one of them.
 
Man, that was great. Just caught up on the reading and the R32 vs R35 article is serious business. I enjoyed every moment. Sounds like the formula is all there now and this is really a must read thread. Definitely keep checking in. Good job brotha. Really appreciate the hard work, makes for a great read. Incredibly entertaining.
 
1241Penguin
Just want to point out that all Skyline GT-R's have I6's, not V6's.

Great comparison! :)
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Yep, stupid mistake :P Thanks for the catch.


Mac K
Great write up! Glad you finally finished it;). I look forward to helping out again, PM the next match up when you decide so I can get some practice in before I hot lap one of them.
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Sure thing, thanks for the help Mac 👍 Let's get some racing going on later tonight, it was to nice out to stay online today :sly:


Thetruth28
Man, that was great. Just caught up on the reading and the R32 vs R35 article is serious business. I enjoyed every moment. Sounds like the formula is all there now and this is really a must read thread. Definitely keep checking in. Good job brotha. Really appreciate the hard work, makes for a great read. Incredibly entertaining.
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haha thanks a lot man! You're making me blush! :shy:.. I do try and put some effort into this, it's actually quite fun to do all the testing, and writing & all that stuff. Thanks man :)
 
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For those of you that don't know, Mitch and the rest of the crew put a whole lot of time and editing into this, this isn't something that's just thrown together in a few hours, Mitch was up until well past 2 AM today getting this ready for the people of GTP. Just something for you all to think about.
 
Mac K
For those of you that don't know, Mitch and the rest of the crew put a whole lot of time and editing into this, this isn't something that's just thrown together in a few hours, Mitch was up until well past 2 AM today getting this ready for the people of GTP. Just something for you all to think about.
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Probably would have been done by like, 11 :P but me and you chatting and messing around on the Ring with Turbo turned it into a nice, slow, process :lol:

Made it more fun though that's for sure.

It was actually a pretty fun night 👍
 
Great thread, with extensive testing and data collecting for each episode. Kudos for all your hard work! 👍

On the poll's subject, I'd consider Tires as allowed upgrades if they were in the same category of the stock tires. (Confort; Sport; Race)

Realistically, there's nothing that keeps you from buying a set of softer tires for your car (Sports Hard to Sports Soft, for example).

Then again, I've done no testing in game whatsoever to know if the grip increase is accurate or game-breaking.

Perhaps in the next vs. test you could make the tire upgrade your first choice just to see if that alone has a tremendous(unrealistic) impact in performance. If it does, scrap it.

Cheers
 
Chico acsc
Great thread, with extensive testing and data collecting for each episode. Kudos for all your hard work! 👍

On the poll's subject, I'd consider Tires as allowed upgrades if they were in the same category of the stock tires. (Comfort; Sport; Race)

Realistically, there's nothing that keeps you from buying a set of softer tires for your car (Sports Hard to Sports Soft, for example).

Then again, I've done no testing in game whatsoever to know if the grip increase is accurate or game-breaking.

Perhaps in the next vs. test you could make the tire upgrade your first choice just to see if that alone has a tremendous(unrealistic) impact in performance. If it does, scrap it.

Cheers
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Thanks man, we do put some considerable time into each episode (not so much episode one .. ) But in reply to the Tire suggestions, I have really been thinking about it and I know what you mean, no one in the real world would be stupid enough to run a 600+ HP car on the same tires that come on a subaru.. then again, I wanted it to be a close comparison, and I feel that it is just to much of an increase in performance to maintain the "compelling comparison" feel. The thing is, if we ever compare a car that comes with CH tires, against a car with SH tires, we will upgrade the tires to match that of the competitor. Just to keep it fair. Hope that answers your question. :)
Thanks for the input 👍
 
MOTORTRENDmitch
Thanks man, we do put some considerable time into each episode (not so much episode one .. ) But in reply to the Tire suggestions, I have really been thinking about it and I know what you mean, no one in the real world would be stupid enough to run a 600+ HP car on the same tires that come on a subaru.. then again, I wanted it to be a close comparison, and I feel that it is just to much of an increase in performance to maintain the "compelling comparison" feel. The thing is, if we ever compare a car that comes with CH tires, against a car with SH tires, we will upgrade the tires to match that of the competitor. Just to keep it fair. Hope that answers your question. :)
Thanks for the input 👍
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👍

It's a shame that tires aren't quite up to par (yet?). And I certainly never thought of the CH to SH scenario.

Looks like you got it all figured out! :D

Which is good. It shows your degree of commitment, and I congratulate you for it. 👍

Ahhh, this thread reminds me of the time I won a 500pp online race with a tuned Fiat 500 (the new one, obviously)... All the guys in their proper sports cars going "WTF?". Priceless! :lol:

Cheers
 
Good write-up guys!
its a great idea, i wish i could have test sooner, just tested 30 minutes yesterday lol
Tested the R32 on the big turbo, then switched the turbo for adjustable diff and torque distribution, the car was more controllable after some tuning, but just couldnt keep the pace in straight line...

Id say there was 7:18 in the R32. :)
Hope to get more time into the next one!

Well done 👍
 
MOTORTRENDmitch
Probably would have been done by like, 11 :P but me and you chatting and messing around on the Ring with Turbo turned it into a nice, slow, process :lol:

Made it more fun though that's for sure.

It was actually a pretty fun night 👍
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Go ahead, blame it on me, I was rambling on a bit wasn't I?
Sure turned out good though didn't it? And look at all the positive criticism you're getting!👍 :)
 
mike_gt3
Good write-up guys!
its a great idea, i wish i could have test sooner, just tested 30 minutes yesterday lol
Tested the R32 on the big turbo, then switched the turbo for adjustable diff and torque distribution, the car was more controllable after some tuning, but just couldnt keep the pace in straight line...

Id say there was 7:18 in the R32. :)
Hope to get more time into the next one!

Well done 👍
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Yeah, sorry i didn't message you a little sooner 👎 Thanks for the help and I will be sure to get ahold of you the day before we do the write up next time :P
 
Just finished reading the last two episodes and the quality has definitely improved since the first one. A very enjoyable read. Looking forward to the next episode.

I was surprised with the tuned R32 though. I always assumed it could take being highly modified without becoming such a handful. Interesting result.
 

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