Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA)
- Thread starter tlowr4
- 589 comments
- 33,879 views
- 326
- Buttcrack, CT
- CaptainAlbator
Oh sure because why should the actually ARTISTS have ownership of their material? I mean, why should the people who actually make the music actually profit from their hard work?
The labels have been fighting change for years. They're still trying to keep musicians tied to the 3¢ per song business model they've had since, what, the 1930's. And there's going to be some innocent people who are going to get dragged down with this who shouldn't be.
- 24,636
- Anoka, MN
I mean, why should the people who actually make the music actually profit from their hard work?
I know exactly what you mean, I heard a story of a singer that had to buy a used Bentley, the horror!!!
Sorry, when you can afford a mansion and a Ferrari, you don't have much room to claim you are being ripped off by the people you are employed by.
If musicians were really struggling like they pretend to be, they wouldn't be signing the contracts in the first place. There isn't a record exec holding a gun to their head or anything.
Trent Reznor is a great example of this, he was sick of dealing with record companies so he has started releasing his own stuff.
- 326
- Buttcrack, CT
- CaptainAlbator
🤬
When you're 22 what do you know about the business? About not holding a gun to your head, while that's true, however what's the alternative? I've never understood this whole thing about "hey man, they're totally like corporate man, they're like so totally like in it for like the totally money man, totally... man". Do you want to be a musician or do you want to paint houses?
I'm not a fan of Trent Reznor, but not every musician is in the position that he is. You certainly don't get to that point overnight, and back in the 50s, 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's, there was no "internet". Yes, there was a time BEFORE the internet where you had to buy a four track machine, record an album, mix it on the same machine or in a studio (which costs money), then take the master somewhere to have it pressed into LP's or CDs, or even cassettes. Then you had to convince a store to actually stock it, and SELL it. That's the difference between then on and now. All of those costs have been streamlined now. In 2012 you CAN do it yourself, record on a PC or Mac, mix it with software and then have a finished product. This is what's fundamentally different. You can take your music directly to the fans, and cut out all of the other stuff in between.
And in Trent Reznor's case that's exactly what he wanted to do, make MONEY. There are cases where some musicians have signed contracts, only to find out later they earn absolutely nothing from their hard work. Ever hear of Badfinger? The Beatles protege's are the best example of how a band can have money shoveling in at one end, and management doling it out with a tweezers at the other. They are one of the sadder cases where their financial problems resulted in the suicides of two band members. Paul Westerberg of the Replacements once said in a Rolling Stone article that his roadies actually made more money than he did, and when all was said and done, there were a million dollars in debt to the record company. In case you anyone isn't familiar with The Mats are, here's a sample;
The perception that "all rock stars are rich" really isn't true, especially after meeting a lot of them over the years. Yes, the Bonos of the world are (personally I think he's full of 🤬, but that's me), however that's only a relatively small number. These guys never "made" it. Their biggest selling record had sold about 350,000 copies. And that's who this really hurts. The lower echelon guys like Paul Westerberg, Matthew Sweet, and Butch Walker. Butch Walker isn't driving a Ferrari, and Paul Westerberg, for what some have called one of the best song writers of his generation, hasn't had a label backing him since 2005.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's a way for someone to get their music across to an audience in 2012, however it came far, far, FAR too late for many.
When you're 22 what do you know about the business? About not holding a gun to your head, while that's true, however what's the alternative? I've never understood this whole thing about "hey man, they're totally like corporate man, they're like so totally like in it for like the totally money man, totally... man". Do you want to be a musician or do you want to paint houses?
I'm not a fan of Trent Reznor, but not every musician is in the position that he is. You certainly don't get to that point overnight, and back in the 50s, 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's, there was no "internet". Yes, there was a time BEFORE the internet where you had to buy a four track machine, record an album, mix it on the same machine or in a studio (which costs money), then take the master somewhere to have it pressed into LP's or CDs, or even cassettes. Then you had to convince a store to actually stock it, and SELL it. That's the difference between then on and now. All of those costs have been streamlined now. In 2012 you CAN do it yourself, record on a PC or Mac, mix it with software and then have a finished product. This is what's fundamentally different. You can take your music directly to the fans, and cut out all of the other stuff in between.
And in Trent Reznor's case that's exactly what he wanted to do, make MONEY. There are cases where some musicians have signed contracts, only to find out later they earn absolutely nothing from their hard work. Ever hear of Badfinger? The Beatles protege's are the best example of how a band can have money shoveling in at one end, and management doling it out with a tweezers at the other. They are one of the sadder cases where their financial problems resulted in the suicides of two band members. Paul Westerberg of the Replacements once said in a Rolling Stone article that his roadies actually made more money than he did, and when all was said and done, there were a million dollars in debt to the record company. In case you anyone isn't familiar with The Mats are, here's a sample;
The perception that "all rock stars are rich" really isn't true, especially after meeting a lot of them over the years. Yes, the Bonos of the world are (personally I think he's full of 🤬, but that's me), however that's only a relatively small number. These guys never "made" it. Their biggest selling record had sold about 350,000 copies. And that's who this really hurts. The lower echelon guys like Paul Westerberg, Matthew Sweet, and Butch Walker. Butch Walker isn't driving a Ferrari, and Paul Westerberg, for what some have called one of the best song writers of his generation, hasn't had a label backing him since 2005.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there's a way for someone to get their music across to an audience in 2012, however it came far, far, FAR too late for many.
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- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
In some regard I think you've got it correct, they like being outlaws but see themselves as maybe Robin hood figures. The whole attacking the banks has to do with the U.S. government from the past and current admin being in bed with the banking giants, like I said I don't agree that's the best way to go about it. But let's be reasonable here and smart about it, going to congress to testify isn't very helpful, because people don't watch that kind of stuff or at least the average bear which is the majority. They want to do things that get them a big media headline and then spout as heroes of justice so the public can watch. A more key reason why going to congress doesn't help is because as I pointed out they too are in bed with these groups and then come together to make laws that decide for the common person, now does that seem right to you? I say protesting would be better, but stirring a hornets nest and messing with key information from websites of corporate big wigs isn't the best idea as well.
would understand foreign policy and what not. It makes sense to many Americans as to why it is a convincing argument because that is the documentation that society runs by or is suppose to.
Happened
No more open internet doesn't mean that people can't hack it via proxy and other tools. Have you ever scripted or programmed or done anything of that sort? I pay for my cable doesn't stop my neighbor's from tapping into it. Just because you block out portions of the net does not inherently mean they're unable to be hacked into. The is a gullible notion and if it was the case then restricted areas of Government and Businesses wouldn't be getting attacked by Anon and Lulzsac. End of story.
...If they were that well equipped then the various target hit currently and in the past wouldn't have occurred. Do you realize that the FBI and NSA hirer guys that attack them? Travel to technology conventions and grab these guys up that hack and crack so they are better equipped.
No one here is debating fighting theft, but SOPA/PIPA aren't going to stop the hundreds of vendors that sell this stuff on site in a tangible form. Also SOPA and PIPA seem to have a wider scope that goes beyond the means of just stopping theft, that is the reason it is being argued. If it were just to stop the theft of movies, music and software I doubt any of us would be here. However, it seems to be a more corrupt type of policy.
Wow
. Yes because it's that easy to get non-corrupt people in office, when people think it's that easy then you easily begin to see why we have corrupt people. If the world has you thinking that by the wave of wand you can have several great people in office interested in the common man, then I'm sorry to break it to you. Things just aren't that black and white. Actually it's going to be looked at again next month so there is still much to fight, then you have PIPA as well next week so not sure where you've got your facts from.
Also I'm not defending Anon or Lulzsac just telling you the harsh reality of it, I don't agree with it, but then again I don't lose sleep over seeing the Government struggle with a unseen group. I'm just telling you what their ideas are or what I read or heard from other people that supposedly know these guys. I do alot of chatting on IRC servers where a lot of types like these like to hang out and script as well as share programming tips.
^ This! 👍
What those three were saying are so true, especially the lady and making that analogy about us all fighting unlike the Super Pacs that seem to be controlling our elections in the states.
Also Bill Maher doesn't know much of anything really, and is probably one of many that sounds smart spewing utter BS. If there was ever a poster boy for everything the Government does but then pretending to hate it. Maher is your man.
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. You see it is because I'm on my iPod do I can't do them 
.CaptainHarlock summed it up nicely but here's some more light reading for you.
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
http://www.toomuchjoy.com/?p=1397
http://rollandrock.typepad.com/davidbach/2009/11/record-royalties-backwards-traction.html
http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/no_glee_over_no_royalties_ahwxPuTlo2YpVsWSOhAN2N
http://www.deadline.com/2010/07/stu...ause-of-warner-bros-phony-baloney-accounting/
- 29,950
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
I'm not sure of the details, or whether they're involved in any copyright infringement cases but I've just heard that FileSonic has disabled file sharing. Only retrival of your own files is permitted.
Edit: And uploaded too. These are only grapevine rumours though. Any confirmations on these?
Edit: And uploaded too. These are only grapevine rumours though. Any confirmations on these?
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- 5,379
- Yokohama
- F1fan1
Being a musician myself, I would take almost any deal that would give me a chance of making a living doing something I love. It's ridiculous that some major artists who don't write their own material and couldn't succeed without the help of the team of people actually creating the music make an absolute fortune, whereas people who write and perform their own material make much less.
Do you think recording and distributing music is cheap or easy? It isn't unless you already have considerable wealth and a massive fan base. Cheap recording deals aren't necessarily great either. In order to record high quality material, you need to drop some serious money on it.
A band I was in the studio with spent the equivalent of $5000 to record a four song ep and the actual quality of the recording is very low.
Screenshot straight from the site.
Looks like other sites are following too. http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/65920166.html
- 1,945
- Treviglio
- PAPPACLART
- PAPPALCART
So I think the consensus is that it is the music industry that screws artists not illegal downloaders.
- 28,352
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Well, the scare tactics have begun. Some filehosting sites are now going as far to block the entirety of the US from accessing their site such as Uploaded.to for example:
SOPA and PIPA are already having an effect on the web, or rather, having a remedial effect on site owners and they haven't even been passed yet; whether or not the site owners are safeguarding themselves from the the events of Megaupload being taken down is both relevant and completely irrelevant at the same time - none of this was as big of an issue until these two bills came along. Now, I'm not downplaying piracy (as I've said twice already... I neither support nor advocate piracy) as it is a big deal, however going so far as to prevent people from uploading files whether it be for backup or otherwise is heinous. There are those of us who don't even use file uploading sites but since they're restricting access or features to US residents who do you think people are going to start pointing fingers at?
You wanted backlash? Now you're going to get it, and worse off, you had absolutely nothing to do with it.
SOPA and PIPA are already having an effect on the web, or rather, having a remedial effect on site owners and they haven't even been passed yet; whether or not the site owners are safeguarding themselves from the the events of Megaupload being taken down is both relevant and completely irrelevant at the same time - none of this was as big of an issue until these two bills came along. Now, I'm not downplaying piracy (as I've said twice already... I neither support nor advocate piracy) as it is a big deal, however going so far as to prevent people from uploading files whether it be for backup or otherwise is heinous. There are those of us who don't even use file uploading sites but since they're restricting access or features to US residents who do you think people are going to start pointing fingers at?
You wanted backlash? Now you're going to get it, and worse off, you had absolutely nothing to do with it.
- 4,209
- Wasilla, AK
Wait... PIPA comes up next week?
Make more noise!
Make more noise!
- 4,209
- Wasilla, AK
I thought SOPA was dead until next month.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
Both pieces of legislation have been shelved for the meantime until they find a way to update them to seem passable. That generally doesn't mean much, particularly when they tried to pull the wool over our eyes on SOPA at the start of the new year.
The primary piece of concern that should be on people's minds right now is ACTA. ACTA is essentially a free-trade agreement that, while a great number of nations have agreed to being a part of, legislation to enforce it has yet to be created. The United States would need to ratify their entrance into ACTA, which is coming up for debate soon.
There is already a massive protest going on in Poland in reaction to ACTA. It will be the next piece of legislation that we will all have to fight here in the US, and around the world. The powers that be are not content with the Internet being a land where information moves quickly and freely to help form the opinion of the public at large. Chances are that the SOPA/PIPA protest will only solidify their desires to control it, as it demonstrates the power of a loose network of individuals have against their government.
The primary piece of concern that should be on people's minds right now is ACTA. ACTA is essentially a free-trade agreement that, while a great number of nations have agreed to being a part of, legislation to enforce it has yet to be created. The United States would need to ratify their entrance into ACTA, which is coming up for debate soon.
There is already a massive protest going on in Poland in reaction to ACTA. It will be the next piece of legislation that we will all have to fight here in the US, and around the world. The powers that be are not content with the Internet being a land where information moves quickly and freely to help form the opinion of the public at large. Chances are that the SOPA/PIPA protest will only solidify their desires to control it, as it demonstrates the power of a loose network of individuals have against their government.
- 525
- alexlmx6 & GTP_AlexL
- alexlmx6
Well, the scare tactics have begun. Some filehosting sites are now going as far to block the entirety of the US from accessing their site such as Uploaded.to for example:
SOPA and PIPA are already having an effect on the web, or rather, having a remedial effect on site owners and they haven't even been passed yet; whether or not the site owners are safeguarding themselves from the the events of Megaupload being taken down is both relevant and completely irrelevant at the same time - none of this was as big of an issue until these two bills came along. Now, I'm not downplaying piracy (as I've said twice already... I neither support nor advocate piracy) as it is a big deal, however going so far as to prevent people from uploading files whether it be for backup or otherwise is heinous. There are those of us who don't even use file uploading sites but since they're restricting access or features to US residents who do you think people are going to start pointing fingers at?
You wanted backlash? Now you're going to get it, and worse off, you had absolutely nothing to do with it.
I almost feel like the Megaupload takedown was in response to the public outcry, sort of a giant middle finger saying, "We'll get what we want whether you let us pass these laws or not." They claim that they've been building the case for two years, seems they were just waiting for the right moment.
- 7,855
- Mother's House
- MattyMc1996
- Egg's box? £3.60.
gt5 fanDo you mean it could be blocked?
Well.. Of SOPA or PIPA pass then almost everything on the Internet will be pay to use rendering it useless to most..
That's what I can make of what I heard, I could be wrong though..
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