#StopNerfingCars

[RushingWind1]

Hey guys,

I don't know what to say about the most recent update, really. I mean, the new cars, the return of the Eiger Nordwand is cool and all, but this update comes with a HUGE downside.
A lot of my cars that I built for specific things like WTC 600 or WTC 700 got completely ruined because Polyphony can't keep their hands off of the PP of cars.

Here are three examples:

1. The Ford Mustang Gr. 3 Road Car. I turned it into an absolute beast for not only WTC 700, but because the engine I swapped in was a turbo engine, the car was eligible for the Race of Turbo Sports Cars, and I absolutely loved it. Now with the new update, I had to strip 83 horsepower from the car to get it back to the 700 PP limit, which severely hurts acceleration and top speed.
2. The Mach Forty. Before I found the even better Corolla, I used this beast of a car for WTC 600, with good handling despite weighing 1.6 tons, an incredible top speed and good enough tire wear. I really liked it, and it saddens me to see a brilliant car get ruined so badly.
3. The nerf that hurt me the most was the Toyota Corolla MORIZO. I absolutely loved that car for WTC 600, the handling was impressive, the top speed was insane and the fuel efficiency was good enough with the 2JZ. It was the best, and by far the fastest car I ever used in the WTC 600 race in Tokyo, and Polyphony totally ruined my beloved Corolla... 😭😭😭

Polyphony really need to stop nerfing cars for the players just to make races like that tough WTC 600 race in Tokyo a lot harder. Every time an update comes out, Polyphony always changes the PP of cars to make them much worse, and that is, to put it as friendly as possible, PEAK GARBAGE GAME DESIGN. I mean, sure, maybe the Corolla I built was overpowered in the Tokyo race, but I absolutely loved it. I was so happy to have finally found a car that I can use to blow the AI out of the water, and Polyphony blatantly ruined it. Can we please please please go back to the previous game version? 😢

I would also like to know if you also had powerful 600 or 700 PP cars that were really good and then got completely ruined, and what cars are really great post-patch? And tell me in the poll if Polyphony should stop nerfing cars with every update.

Thank you,
Rushing Wind

 

[TumeK5]

Can we please please please go back to the previous game version? 😢

Roger that, we're downgrading to 1.48, and stripping the 6 cars and Eiger!

 

[jrbabbitt]

Hey guys,

I don't know what to say about the most recent update, really. I mean, the new cars, the return of the Eiger Nordwand is cool and all, but this update comes with a HUGE downside.
A lot of my cars that I built for specific things like WTC 600 or WTC 700 got completely ruined because Polyphony can't keep their hands off of the PP of cars.

Here are three examples:

1. The Ford Mustang Gr. 3 Road Car. I turned it into an absolute beast for not only WTC 700, but because the engine I swapped in was a turbo engine, the car was eligible for the Race of Turbo Sports Cars, and I absolutely loved it. Now with the new update, I had to strip 83 horsepower from the car to get it back to the 700 PP limit, which severely hurts acceleration and top speed.
2. The Mach Forty. Before I found the even better Corolla, I used this beast of a car for WTC 600, with good handling despite weighing 1.6 tons, an incredible top speed and good enough tire wear. I really liked it, and it saddens me to see a brilliant car get ruined so badly.
3. The nerf that hurt me the most was the Toyota Corolla MORIZO. I absolutely loved that car for WTC 600, the handling was impressive, the top speed was insane and the fuel efficiency was good enough with the 2JZ. It was the best, and by far the fastest car I ever used in the WTC 600 race in Tokyo, and Polyphony totally ruined my beloved Corolla... 😭😭😭

Polyphony really need to stop nerfing cars for the players just to make races like that tough WTC 600 race in Tokyo a lot harder. Every time an update comes out, Polyphony always changes the PP of cars to make them much worse, and that is, to put it as friendly as possible, PEAK GARBAGE GAME DESIGN. I mean, sure, maybe the Corolla I built was overpowered in the Tokyo race, but I absolutely loved it. I was so happy to have finally found a car that I can use to blow the AI out of the water, and Polyphony blatantly ruined it. Can we please please please go back to the previous game version? 😢

I would also like to know if you also had powerful 600 or 700 PP cars that were really good and then got completely ruined, and what cars are really great post-patch? And tell me in the poll if Polyphony should stop nerfing cars with every update.

Thank you,
Rushing Wind

Learn how to adjust, learn how to brake, learn how to tune, learn how to drive again.

 

[Famine]

The changes in Performance Points are down to the physics engine change. This is the third time it's occurred since launch.

It's hardly an ongoing issue, week to week.

 

[timekiller001]

They adjusted the physics. This will have an inevitable effect on car performances and setups.
As @jrbabbitt put it - adapt to it

 

[TumeK5]

GT7 is literally an evolving game - if you fail to adapt, too bad.

 

[ZevZoq]

if a physics change can hypothetically improve the driving experience, should it not be implemented just because doing so would cause problems related to the tunes made for cars using the old (worse) physics? I mean I think most people who've been playing GT7 since day one would agree that the physics prior to 1.49 were better than they were on day one right? So should the improvements that had been made post-release have been shelved in favor of maintaining the viability of tunes created in the first month after the game came out?

 

[watto79]

Until you've experienced a mid-Championshp sason BoP update that destroyed the Gr.4 Alfa Romeo 4C, you've nothing to worry about from this update.
#imstillsalty

 

[PlanetJanet]

Sorry, no. PPs change because physics change. You just need to adjust them. 🤷‍♂️

 

[XSquareStickIt]

While I do agree PP recalculations are necessary when physics get an overhaul, I do find it very BS when the AI opponents aren't subject to the same PP limits of the events in which they serve as opponents. If player cars generally gain PP and thus need to be nerfed to enter the same events, then it should only follow that the opponents are similarly slowed down. There were already some egregious, blatant "cheaters" before the update, like Gallo's Giulia and Serrano's C8, and trying to catch them now with the joke of a "suggested PP" is nigh on impossible. It just screams bad and lazy game design.

And that's not even considering how these yearly physics changes deincentivise players from investing time and effort into tuning their cars to begin with, since all their hard work can go poof just like that. We might get yet another physics change soon in light of the jumping cars glitch. If I were a tuner, I wouldn't even bother with setting cars up right now. It's really amazing when a game is designed in such a way that makes players not want to invest in or explore its features.

I get that the new physics are good, but I feel like the live service model is just a bad fit for the Gran Turismo series.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Look at this in real world situation, you but a new set of tyres for your real car and you notice the handling is different from what you were used to, do you complain or do you adapt and learn to drive with the new handling ?

 

[Meythia]

A lot of my cars that I built for specific things like WTC 600 or WTC 700 got completely ruined because Polyphony can't keep their hands off of the PP of cars.

PP is not set but calculated, by that any change to physics will cause changes to PP.
But as PP calculations are not very easy to understand, it may happen that some cars seem hit harder than others or being not touched at all.
Sure it is not directly fun, when your favourite car cant be used in the same way anymore, and I wouldnt want to name any "but" to anything I dont like myself ... but if PP are ever more correct and getting closer to a balance, this leads to a more healthy game and better AI experience as well as setting up more possibilities for lobbies and sport mode (the later though very likely wont see any change as basically all races of impact are with BoP enabled for obvious reasons).

 

[shadow0460]

Look at this in real world situation, you but a new set of tyres for your real car and you notice the handling is different from what you were used to, do you complain or do you adapt and learn to drive with the new handling ?

Apples to oranges. Gran Turismo is a video game, not your actual car and not an actual track. They can make the cars do anything they want to in a video game, like launching into space or falling off the screen. Not that this would ever happen in Gran Turismo, nope, never!
I said the same thing when the first Gran Turismo came out: we can do that in Gran Turismo, so it should work in real life, too! I was still a young adult at the time, not much over 20. Imagine mine and my friend's surprise when we found out it doesn't work that way and GT1's never was meant to be a real life simulation to start with!
Repeat after me: Gran Turismo is just a video game!!

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Look at this in real world situation, you but a new set of tyres for your real car and you notice the handling is different from what you were used to, do you complain or do you adapt and learn to drive with the new handling ?

Hm, but what if they force a software update to your car which changes physics? Would you mind or still be ok with this? (I'm not talking about the game now, everything has been said about this)

 

[mynameis66]

In a real world situation new tyres may well alter the handling, but there is no PP category for your car irl. No amount of tuning or driving style is going to compensate for losing HP/gaining weight to meet PP requirements.Just my opinion, no arguments from me. 👍

 

[Meythia]

In a real world situation new tyres may well alter the handling, but there is no PP category for your car irl. No amount of tuning or driving style is going to compensate for losing HP/gaining weight to meet PP requirements.Just my opinion, no arguments from me. 👍

Sure, but if I dont like how my new set of tyres makes the car feel, I would actually complain enough trying to get something that is more like the old feeling instead of trying to adapt to a situation that was unnecessarily (from a customers perspective) changed.
IRL we dont need to accept being feed the poop, but in a game where the dev team is following its own ideas and voting with your wallet doesnt have any impact there obviously is no other choice than to make the best of it.

 

[benjoi84]

I wish the industry would just release games when they're complete, no updates necessary.

But it's not going to happen.

 

[Meythia]

I wish the industry would just release games when they're complete, no updates necessary.

But it's not going to happen.

Usually these games would be solo player games, most often with no inherent competitve modus to play.
Though of course they will see bug fixes or performance improvements, but not in regular intervals and instead only when necessary.

 

[kiseca]

I had three cars that could give me Tokyo WTC600 wins with CRB, one of those was a reliable winner, the other two marginal.

I tried the reliable one last night aftrr adjusting it back under the PP limit, got 4th, was never really threatening a podium never mind a win.

It's a shame but it's one of those things. It does reset a lot of work for players who have tuned their cars, or players like me who like to track and compare performance stats and lap times, but the payoff is (or should be) better balanced online play and, when they sort out the bugs they've just introduced, better physics.

It's a bit of a lottery but I can't see how else they can do it unless they just release the game as is and it's done, a bit like the F1 series. However in that case we'd be stuck with version 1.0 physics, not version 1.48 physics, and... well, that's the lottery. They should stop tinkering when it's just right, but clearly they thought it wasn't just right, just yet.

 

[mynameis66]

Sure, but if I dont like how my new set of tyres makes the car feel, I would actually complain enough trying to get something that is more like the old feeling instead of trying to adapt to a situation that was unnecessarily (from a customers perspective) changed.
IRL we dont need to accept being feed the poop, but in a game where the dev team is following its own ideas and voting with your wallet doesnt have any impact there obviously is no other choice than to make the best of it.

Absolutely, we are stuck with the decisions unfortunately.

 

[eran0004]

A lot of my cars that I built for specific things like WTC 600 or WTC 700 got completely ruined because Polyphony can't keep their hands off of the PP of cars.

They didn’t touch the PP of the cars, they said changed the suspension and tyre physics. If your PP went up, that’s because your cars became faster with those changes.

 

[Meythia]

They didn’t touch the PP of the cars, they said changed the suspension and tyre physics. If your PP went up, that’s because your cars became faster with those changes.

By that logic reducing PP back to the level as before should be the same result as before.
The change pf physics caused an increase in PP because the old calculations were not correct in all cases as I can immediatly name one car where it is not the case.

Just saying: it is not generally correct, and it is a hassle for favourite cars on certian events.
Maybe they were too fast before (I would agree in many cases), or maybe other cars were too slow (I am quite confident there are cases). Anyway one looks at the game now, if it is better or not really relies on how much one likes the new handling characteristics.

 

[benjoi84]

This discussion actually brings up a parallel point about GT7...

Why are people so bothered about "their tunes" being altered in a way that means the cars are ineligible for the big grind events?

Because if there were a variety of well-paying events which allowed different cars to enter, you would just enter your 703pp vehicle into a completely different race. But because your entire game cycle revolves around making credits/hour in the Big 4, there's a lot of extra work involved in order to continue as such.

(Actually, there's perfectly good money to be earned in custom races and quick races now that the rewards have been adjusted, and those are free to enter for any car, but that's a different discussion)

 

[Lomic]

(Actually, there's perfectly good money to be earned in custom races and quick races now that the rewards have been adjusted, and those are free to enter for any car, but that's a different discussion)

Care to give an example and the amount of credits/hour you get ? (and I don't mean dumb racing against nerfed Tommies with a swapped Honda beast, but actually entertaining custom race with decent prize at the end)

 

[eran0004]

By that logic reducing PP back to the level as before should be the same result as before.

No, because the PP score is a one-dimensional representation of your car’s performance, so it depends on what methods you use to get back to the old PP score. If your PP score went up because the handling improved, and you reduce the PP by reducing power or increasing the ballast, you will not have the same performance again.

 

[benjoi84]

Care to give an example and the amount of credits/hour you get ? (and I don't mean dumb racing against nerfed Tommies with a swapped Honda beast, but actually entertaining custom race with decent prize at the end)

Obviously, I can't give you one that is comparable to the big grind events...

My point was more an observation that this PP 'outrage' is largely thanks to a greater issue in the game's design and the resulting gameplay loop it has created.

Everyone's free to play as they wish, of course...

 

[mynameis66]

They didn’t touch the PP of the cars, they said changed the suspension and tyre physics. If your PP went up, that’s because your cars became faster with those changes.

It says in the patch notes, performance points for all featured cars have been adjusted. Lap times with some of my cars were slightly slower due to lowering hp/raising weight to get back under the PP level, just my 10 cents. 👍

Update Details (1.49) - Update - Gran Turismo 7 - gran-turismo.com

A new update for Gran Turismo 7 has been released. The following is a list of the main features and adjustments introduced.Main Features Implemented1. Cars- The following six new cars have been added:　・BMW M3 '97 (Sold at the 'Used Cars' dealership)　・Ferrari 430 Scuderia '07　・Genesis X Gran...

www.gran-turismo.com

 

[Lomic]

Obviously, I can't give you one that is comparable to the big grind events...

You mentionned "perfectly good money to be earned in custom races" hence why I asked for examples. In what measure is it not comparable to the big grind events ? 10x less credits per hour ? 2x less ?

Am just curious. Thanks.

 

[hawkeyez]

The performance points aren’t all that accurate to begin with. Even from day one. You can have three cars all at 600pp SS and one will destroy the others. You can apply the same parts to each car, you can apply different parts. It all boils down to lap times. A lot of cars I’ve tried to equalize are almost never the same PP yet running almost identical lap times. Sometimes they’re off by as much as 20-30pp. Yet I can’t drive one faster than the other. It’s a flawed system. But it’s better than nothing.

 

[benjoi84]

You mentionned "perfectly good money to be earned in custom races" hence why I asked for examples. In what measure is it not comparable to the big grind events ? 10x less credits per hour ? 2x less ?

Am just curious. Thanks.

I don't have the exact figures to hand, but if you mimic the settings for, for example, the Japanese 450 FR event at Tsukuba (pays 10,000cr), you will win something like 45,000 on Hard Difficulty for the exact same race parameters. I can't remember which car I was driving at the time but the opponent was set to Random.