Suggestions Box
- Thread starter Kent
- 1,615 comments
- 81,176 views
- 3,971
- driehuis (nl)
- GTP_Steven
great! but god please let it be a wide real race track so i can practice my cornering style. also make it slow by p-10 and w+10 or i'll get dizzyFlat-outNext week (59) will be the last race before BC starts (June 5th), so I was thinking it would be time to use the Formula GT, so that our BC drivers have a final opportunity to sharpen their reflexes, and still have a race that can be enjoyable for every one.
So, those who haven't unlocked the Formula GT yet, you'd better get an übersave (PAL one here) or start the Nürburgring enduro soon.
- 7,956
- BradleyH131
Ok. First round of testing. I used the RUF S3400 on S3's. For no reason at all really. On Motorland Reverse.
I set it on B-Spec level 1 (For the most consistancy), and let it do 3 laps. Then averaged out the laps. I ran from +5% to -5%, as I assume anything higher or lower would continue the trend.
The results were pretty linear. With almost every +/- going respectively faster or slower then the lap before. The exception being the +3/+4 result. I ran again on 0% on the end of start of every set, and the end, to make sure the B-Spec guy wasn't getting faster or slower. It turns out that the B-Spec-Brad ran the exact same times on the last two 0% runs.
This graph can be used to predict the values of various level levels. Using the formula 'Final Time = 1.1011 x (Power/Weight) + 46.924', I can predict that a power of +20% would, in theory, give a lap time of 50.434. A power of -20% would give a lap time of 52.182. A total difference of 1.748 seconds over a lap. Or 3.417% of the total lap time.
I'm unsure of what time means. Can the very slowest of D3 match get within 3.417% of the very fastest of D1? I'm thinking possibly not. Which is why I'll have to do the test later on tonight on different tyres. I'm mathed out for the moment.
I set it on B-Spec level 1 (For the most consistancy), and let it do 3 laps. Then averaged out the laps. I ran from +5% to -5%, as I assume anything higher or lower would continue the trend.
The results were pretty linear. With almost every +/- going respectively faster or slower then the lap before. The exception being the +3/+4 result. I ran again on 0% on the end of start of every set, and the end, to make sure the B-Spec guy wasn't getting faster or slower. It turns out that the B-Spec-Brad ran the exact same times on the last two 0% runs.
This graph can be used to predict the values of various level levels. Using the formula 'Final Time = 1.1011 x (Power/Weight) + 46.924', I can predict that a power of +20% would, in theory, give a lap time of 50.434. A power of -20% would give a lap time of 52.182. A total difference of 1.748 seconds over a lap. Or 3.417% of the total lap time.
I'm unsure of what time means. Can the very slowest of D3 match get within 3.417% of the very fastest of D1? I'm thinking possibly not. Which is why I'll have to do the test later on tonight on different tyres. I'm mathed out for the moment.
- 1,424
- Kent, UK.
- DG_1275GT
I can't believe the amount of research going into this already, nice to see that I'm not the only one still playing GT4 to death (I'm on my second copy already).
No wonder I'm so far down the WRS tables, looks like I need to put more effort in.
Here's my 2 pennies worth, how about the Cobra on Super Speedway for this challenge?
And Cyril, no one likes a smart a$$.
👍
No wonder I'm so far down the WRS tables, looks like I need to put more effort in
.Here's my 2 pennies worth, how about the Cobra on Super Speedway for this challenge?
And Cyril, no one likes a smart a$$.
👍
- 745
- Columbus
Well now that the Formula GT is on the way. I guess I better get up to 25% I started a new file a couple of weeks ago and am only at around 10%.
Luckily though on my other memory card I have my save where I have plentyy of money and around 75%
Luckily though on my other memory card I have my save where I have plentyy of money and around 75%
Tedehur
Staff Emeritus
- 4,322
- France
- Z spec
Weren't you meaning 'psychics' Darren ? I must admit your comment was rather puzzling.
And sorry about being a smart ass, sometimes I can't help
Concerning the power race, I tested some cars on Motorland reverse, and found out that :
too much power actually makes the car more difficult to drive on such a winding track, and the race might in the end be easier to run with -20% than with +20% power
I ran the Honda NSX Type S Zero '99 (minimum weight 1143 kg).
At 228 hp (-20%), the best lap of a 5-lap session was 44.999
At 341 hp (+20%), the best lap of a similar session was only 43.727 because most laps were ruined by wheel spin, or missed apex.
Would it be fair if a div1-er uses the car at 228hp (no wheel spin, easy to swing the rear end in the corners) and a div3-er uses the car at 341 hp and has to struggle with the extra 113 hp ?
A single time limit might turn out to be spoiling the race and favor one division.
All racers should have a chance to reduce the power factor so as to try and reach the limit of their skill level.
So the time limit must be easy to reach at +20% for slow div 3 drivers, or else they won't even be able to try lower factors which is the aim of the race.
But at the same time, the time limit must be difficult to reach at -20% for fast div 1 drivers, or else they'll crack the time limit at -20% without even trying higher factors.
For instance, I used the Mazda RX-7 Type RZ (FD,J) '96 (minimum weight 1125 kg).
At 209 hp (-20%), the best lap was 46.058
At 315 hp (+20%), the best lap was 44.277
Let's assume that I set a time limit at 44.000
Any div 3 racer should be able to quickly reach that barrier, and then start to reduce the power factor, to 19%, then 18%, until it reaches the driver's skill level.
But wouldn't it take a fast div 1 racer only a few laps to crack the barrier at -20% ?
So perhaps the time limit has to be different depending on the division, or perhaps we should look for a longer track where time can be gained more easily. Like the little Suzuka, which has no T times either.
And sorry about being a smart ass, sometimes I can't help
Concerning the power race, I tested some cars on Motorland reverse, and found out that :
too much power actually makes the car more difficult to drive on such a winding track, and the race might in the end be easier to run with -20% than with +20% power
I ran the Honda NSX Type S Zero '99 (minimum weight 1143 kg).
At 228 hp (-20%), the best lap of a 5-lap session was 44.999
At 341 hp (+20%), the best lap of a similar session was only 43.727 because most laps were ruined by wheel spin, or missed apex.
Would it be fair if a div1-er uses the car at 228hp (no wheel spin, easy to swing the rear end in the corners) and a div3-er uses the car at 341 hp and has to struggle with the extra 113 hp ?
A single time limit might turn out to be spoiling the race and favor one division.
All racers should have a chance to reduce the power factor so as to try and reach the limit of their skill level.
So the time limit must be easy to reach at +20% for slow div 3 drivers, or else they won't even be able to try lower factors which is the aim of the race.
But at the same time, the time limit must be difficult to reach at -20% for fast div 1 drivers, or else they'll crack the time limit at -20% without even trying higher factors.
For instance, I used the Mazda RX-7 Type RZ (FD,J) '96 (minimum weight 1125 kg).
At 209 hp (-20%), the best lap was 46.058
At 315 hp (+20%), the best lap was 44.277
Let's assume that I set a time limit at 44.000
Any div 3 racer should be able to quickly reach that barrier, and then start to reduce the power factor, to 19%, then 18%, until it reaches the driver's skill level.
But wouldn't it take a fast div 1 racer only a few laps to crack the barrier at -20% ?
So perhaps the time limit has to be different depending on the division, or perhaps we should look for a longer track where time can be gained more easily. Like the little Suzuka, which has no T times either.
- 7,956
- BradleyH131
Flat-out
That's what I was thinking. Maybe the short Suzuka we didn't use that week with the FPV, I can't remember if it's east or west. Anyway, that one does have quite a straight, and is a much higher average speed where an increase in power would make quite a difference to overall lap time in compared to Motorland.
Like you said, and I found statistically, that the difference between fastest D1 and slowest D3 is not enough on Motorland, at least with ~300hp cars, to be fair. My calculation was 3.417% to cover the field, which even on a short lap on motorland isn't enough.
That or have different tyres per division. But I havn't had time to test that as yet.
- 2,342
- Camboriu - Braz
- FASJ6418
if the F1 is on his way, remember this:
in arcade mode, the car has a standard -6 toe value in the back, which makes the car very spin-friendly. last time we used in GT mode, and i think this time we should do the same. because we can all put that toe to 0 and correct the mistake PD did with the standard setup of the car. the F1 in arcade with full tune is more unrealistic than outrun2006.
in arcade mode, the car has a standard -6 toe value in the back, which makes the car very spin-friendly. last time we used in GT mode, and i think this time we should do the same. because we can all put that toe to 0 and correct the mistake PD did with the standard setup of the car. the F1 in arcade with full tune is more unrealistic than outrun2006.
- 3,105
- GTP_MisterWeary
Well I got an idea. It's perhaps something that could be posted elsewhere on GTP rather than the WRS section but I reckon WRS'ers are more likely to wanna have a go than the general populus anyway.
I was talking with the usual suspects backchannel and I mentioned that one thing I want to do before GT5 comes out and probably the last hurdle in GT4 for many folk face is to crack the 5 minute barrier on the Nurburgring. I know it sounds daunting but I actually think D1 and a lot of D2 could do it.
Once BC is done perhaps we could have a "Fastest Nurb Lap" thread where everyone can post tips and tricks on how to go as fast as possible on the nurb. There's like 4-5 cars that can crack 5 minutes and the main gola of the thread would be for people to get their fastest laps of the ring. A lot of D3 probably would struggle to get to 5 mins but they'd still be able to get a cracking time around the ring and then people like myself who have been close will finally get the extra motivation and tips needed to go under that magic barrier.
Here's a thread of my last attempt to go as fast as possible and this was back when I was mid D2 and driving auto so I'm pretty sure it can be done by a lot of folk.
Anyway, just a thought 👍
I was talking with the usual suspects backchannel and I mentioned that one thing I want to do before GT5 comes out and probably the last hurdle in GT4 for many folk face is to crack the 5 minute barrier on the Nurburgring. I know it sounds daunting but I actually think D1 and a lot of D2 could do it.
Once BC is done perhaps we could have a "Fastest Nurb Lap" thread where everyone can post tips and tricks on how to go as fast as possible on the nurb. There's like 4-5 cars that can crack 5 minutes and the main gola of the thread would be for people to get their fastest laps of the ring. A lot of D3 probably would struggle to get to 5 mins but they'd still be able to get a cracking time around the ring and then people like myself who have been close will finally get the extra motivation and tips needed to go under that magic barrier.
Here's a thread of my last attempt to go as fast as possible and this was back when I was mid D2 and driving auto so I'm pretty sure it can be done by a lot of folk.
Anyway, just a thought 👍
- 1,424
- Kent, UK.
- DG_1275GT
I reckon I'm not part of "most of D2" that you refer to Colby. I reckon I'd be lucky to get under six minutes but hey I'd give it a shot. 
I've never really done much hot lapping in the F1 car round the nurb, (I'm one of those lazy people that b-specced alot of the PD cup, sorry). But I reckon my (very short) spell in the WRS has improved my driving skill enough to at least attempt it, hell I've been driving without TCS in virtually every race since I started and I never would've done that before, too scared!
I'm in. 👍
BTW, never really thought about it till Holl01 announced his WRS reirement but assuming GT5 is on-line enabled what are the plans for the WRS? I don't think I'll bother with on-line racing via the console personally, (had an X-box since day one and never ever played a game on X-box live.) Are there any plans for a similar set-up to this for GT5? I suppose it's still early days but just a thought.
I reckon I'd be lucky to get under six minutes but hey I'd give it a shot. I've never really done much hot lapping in the F1 car round the nurb, (I'm one of those lazy people that b-specced alot of the PD cup, sorry). But I reckon my (very short) spell in the WRS has improved my driving skill enough to at least attempt it, hell I've been driving without TCS in virtually every race since I started and I never would've done that before, too scared!
I'm in. 👍
BTW, never really thought about it till Holl01 announced his WRS reirement but assuming GT5 is on-line enabled what are the plans for the WRS? I don't think I'll bother with on-line racing via the console personally, (had an X-box since day one and never ever played a game on X-box live.) Are there any plans for a similar set-up to this for GT5? I suppose it's still early days but just a thought.
Tedehur
Staff Emeritus
- 4,322
- France
- Z spec
Should we run the sub-5 mins race at the Ring in the WRS, it would have to fit into the WRS format, which means a short deadline. I think it would spoil most of the race fun, and IMO we'd better make it a spot race challenge in the regular OLR forum.
As for the future, it's way too early to think about switching the WRS to GT5. The on-line mode will certainly dramatically change the way we play, but real time racing induces several problems, such as :
1) the limited amount of cars who can simultaneously enter a certain race, so there will be no way to have 25, 30 or 35 drivers running the same race as we do in the WRS.
2) real time racing rhymes with schedule problem. If we schedule a race at 9pm european time for instance, it'll be around 3pm in the US or 3am in Oceania, and 2/3 of racers won't be able to enter the race.
IMO, the WRS as we know it will certainly survive. Perhaps we'll need to rename it off-line racing instead of on-line, to be more accurate, but it'll still exist. The good thing is that if there is a worldwide time leaderboard, we can compare ourselves to one another or to the rest of the world, and enhance our WRS experience.
Finally, as far as I am concerned, I'm not planning to buy the PS3 or GT5 when they hit the shelves. 600 is twice more what I am willing to spend on any entertainment system. (Plus I still find GT4 way too disappointing and I'm not expecting much from GT5 anymore).
When the WRS moves to GT5 (or GT4 online, if it is ever released and worth it), I'll either play all the games I have no time to play right now or perhaps switch back to GT3 where we can both hybride and drive the good ol' Mini Cooper. Perhaps I'll even set up a new Team Mini (for those who haven't known the late GT3 Team Mini, it was a series of challenges, races or enduros to be run exclusively with the Mini Cooper 1.3i '98)
As for the future, it's way too early to think about switching the WRS to GT5. The on-line mode will certainly dramatically change the way we play, but real time racing induces several problems, such as :
1) the limited amount of cars who can simultaneously enter a certain race, so there will be no way to have 25, 30 or 35 drivers running the same race as we do in the WRS.
2) real time racing rhymes with schedule problem. If we schedule a race at 9pm european time for instance, it'll be around 3pm in the US or 3am in Oceania, and 2/3 of racers won't be able to enter the race.
IMO, the WRS as we know it will certainly survive. Perhaps we'll need to rename it off-line racing instead of on-line, to be more accurate, but it'll still exist. The good thing is that if there is a worldwide time leaderboard, we can compare ourselves to one another or to the rest of the world, and enhance our WRS experience.
Finally, as far as I am concerned, I'm not planning to buy the PS3 or GT5 when they hit the shelves. 600 is twice more what I am willing to spend on any entertainment system. (Plus I still find GT4 way too disappointing and I'm not expecting much from GT5 anymore).
When the WRS moves to GT5 (or GT4 online, if it is ever released and worth it), I'll either play all the games I have no time to play right now or perhaps switch back to GT3 where we can both hybride and drive the good ol' Mini Cooper. Perhaps I'll even set up a new Team Mini (for those who haven't known the late GT3 Team Mini, it was a series of challenges, races or enduros to be run exclusively with the Mini Cooper 1.3i '98)
- 3,105
- GTP_MisterWeary
You're probably right Cyril, I think it's a post for elsewhere at GTP which is cool, I'll do that after BC, i'll also make sure there's notification of it in here 👍
As for the PS3...the split second GT5 is released I will be buying them together 👍 Gran Turismo is the coolest game ever, it's infinitely playable and infinitely enjoyable in my opinion...I kind of hope GT5 doesn't come out with the PS3 because Sony could extract any amount of money from me that they wanted
As for the PS3...the split second GT5 is released I will be buying them together 👍 Gran Turismo is the coolest game ever, it's infinitely playable and infinitely enjoyable in my opinion...I kind of hope GT5 doesn't come out with the PS3 because Sony could extract any amount of money from me that they wanted
- 2,670
- Portland, OR
- GTP_KLR142
It's all good. I bet that by the time GT5 comes out, the PS3 will actually be at a decent price, somewhere around 2/3rds of what it'll be when it's first released. It's supposed to come out this year, isn't it?MisterWearyI kind of hope GT5 doesn't come out with the PS3 because Sony could extract any amount of money from me that they wanted
- 3,105
- GTP_MisterWeary
KLR142
November 17 is what I hear on the grapevine...worldwide release too but apparently they haven't even started making units so how that will be possible is a mystery
- 1,424
- Kent, UK.
- DG_1275GT
MisterWearyNovember 17 is what I hear on the grapevine...worldwide release too but apparently they haven't even started making units so how that will be possible is a mystery
Yeah great...
Probably means there'll be about a hundred units in the UK for Nov 17 and you won't be able to get one before christmas without a pre order or a two week shopping trip trying to hunt one down?
Deja vu?
- 134
So I was goofin' around in the Arcade mode with some cars I like and came up with these two combos:
Mitsubishi HSR-II Concept '89 @ Tokyo R246
1 Hotlap
+20%(412 bhp)
-10%(1080 kg)
Any tyres, aids, tranny, top speed
(This one's a lot of fun. Just ignore the funny spoiler.)
Renaut Clio Sport Trophy V6 24V Race Car '00 @ Motorland Reverse
1 Hotlap -OR- 3 Lap Arcade
+20%(352 bhp)
-10%(1035 kg)
Any tyres, aids, tranny, top speed
Computer: any tyres, difficulty
(Did a good bit of testing and found that with R5s, the car and track can handle the extra power. If this power is too high, +9% or +4% works well instead.)
Mitsubishi HSR-II Concept '89 @ Tokyo R246
1 Hotlap
+20%(412 bhp)
-10%(1080 kg)
Any tyres, aids, tranny, top speed
(This one's a lot of fun. Just ignore the funny spoiler.)
Renaut Clio Sport Trophy V6 24V Race Car '00 @ Motorland Reverse
1 Hotlap -OR- 3 Lap Arcade
+20%(352 bhp)
-10%(1035 kg)
Any tyres, aids, tranny, top speed
Computer: any tyres, difficulty
(Did a good bit of testing and found that with R5s, the car and track can handle the extra power. If this power is too high, +9% or +4% works well instead.)
- 2,670
- Portland, OR
- GTP_KLR142
Here's something I posted over in this week's race:
And, now that in BC6 everything is legal aside from dirt pretty much, and that's how they've competed in the past I guess, maybe we should start doing this all the time because that way we won't be at a disadvantage next time when we compete with other boards. I mean, if they race like that all the time, then they have the experience of running the tracks like that. So, I vote we should do it all the time, even if I'm against it. At least our playing grounds will be more even.
For a GT Mode race in the future, let's do a multi-lapper. It's an AWESOME combo if I do say so myself. It would've been a great BC6 race, but everyone pussied out, they're scared of GT Mode, pretty sad really.
-NSX Type S '01, SM Tires, at El Capitan, GT Mode, Family Cup, -10 Competition, Open Mods exept Power Mods, Oil Change Only, Open Settings
And here are a couple others:
- Mercedes 300SL Gull-wing, S2 tires, at The 'Ring, Arcade Mode Hotlap, +0% Power
- Audi A3 3.2 Quattro, S2 Tires, at Opera Paris, GT Mode (Hot Hatch Series), Open Mods exept Power Mods, Oil Change Only, Open Settings
And, now that in BC6 everything is legal aside from dirt pretty much, and that's how they've competed in the past I guess, maybe we should start doing this all the time because that way we won't be at a disadvantage next time when we compete with other boards. I mean, if they race like that all the time, then they have the experience of running the tracks like that. So, I vote we should do it all the time, even if I'm against it. At least our playing grounds will be more even.
For a GT Mode race in the future, let's do a multi-lapper. It's an AWESOME combo if I do say so myself. It would've been a great BC6 race, but everyone pussied out, they're scared of GT Mode, pretty sad really.
-NSX Type S '01, SM Tires, at El Capitan, GT Mode, Family Cup, -10 Competition, Open Mods exept Power Mods, Oil Change Only, Open Settings
And here are a couple others:
- Mercedes 300SL Gull-wing, S2 tires, at The 'Ring, Arcade Mode Hotlap, +0% Power
- Audi A3 3.2 Quattro, S2 Tires, at Opera Paris, GT Mode (Hot Hatch Series), Open Mods exept Power Mods, Oil Change Only, Open Settings
- 757
I think that Arcade mode is a more level playing field. GT Mode introduces a whole list of variables that Arcade eliminates. This way we are all racing in the same car, it's the driver that makes the difference.
It's the idea behind IROC, and no one's allowed to touch the cars but the IROC techs. All cars are the same, it's the driver that makes the difference. That's kinda the reasoning behind the WRS, who's the best DRIVER, not Crew Chief.
IMHO
It's the idea behind IROC, and no one's allowed to touch the cars but the IROC techs. All cars are the same, it's the driver that makes the difference. That's kinda the reasoning behind the WRS, who's the best DRIVER, not Crew Chief.
IMHO
- 1,424
- Kent, UK.
- DG_1275GT
ICallShotgun
Thats a good point but you can always ask for set-up advice on the weekly race thread, assuming nobodys already posted it.
Nice call on the 300SL KLR142, I was testing one of those round Monaco at the weekend for another race series. Loads of power but nice and controllable, even for someone of my ability.
👍
Tedehur
Staff Emeritus
- 4,322
- France
- Z spec
KLR142Here's something I posted over in this week's race:
And, now that in BC6 everything is legal aside from dirt pretty much, and that's how they've competed in the past I guess, maybe we should start doing this all the time because that way we won't be at a disadvantage next time when we compete with other boards. I mean, if they race like that all the time, then they have the experience of running the tracks like that. So, I vote we should do it all the time, even if I'm against it. At least our playing grounds will be more even.
For a GT Mode race in the future, let's do a multi-lapper. It's an AWESOME combo if I do say so myself. It would've been a great BC6 race, but everyone pussied out, they're scared of GT Mode, pretty sad really.
-NSX Type S '01, SM Tires, at El Capitan, GT Mode, Family Cup, -10 Competition, Open Mods exept Power Mods, Oil Change Only, Open Settings
And here are a couple others:
- Mercedes 300SL Gull-wing, S2 tires, at The 'Ring, Arcade Mode Hotlap, +0% Power
- Audi A3 3.2 Quattro, S2 Tires, at Opera Paris, GT Mode (Hot Hatch Series), Open Mods exept Power Mods, Oil Change Only, Open Settings
The Gullwing at the Ring is a combo I've always liked. Not sure yet if WRSers will like it much. I was thinking at eventually using a race car for our next visit on the Track (with a capital T).
About the NSX at El Capitan, I love it. But what about running a free run session with a fixed number of laps ?
That way we can remove the dumb AI cars and still run a multi-lapper ?
- 1,424
- Kent, UK.
- DG_1275GT
Forgive my ignorance but I assume a GT Mode multi lapper means running consecutive laps (eliminating Shigspeeds "million monkey's" Theory)?
Doesn't put me off if thats the case, just asking so I know what to expect if it does come up in the future. It'll just mean I'll be lower down than usual. Although I have been doing alot of running around The Ring, trying to beat some of the records in Kent's thread. Been getting some good times for me too.
I'll be there whatever the decision though, as long I remember to submit in time?
Doesn't put me off if thats the case, just asking so I know what to expect if it does come up in the future. It'll just mean I'll be lower down than usual. Although I have been doing alot of running around The Ring, trying to beat some of the records in Kent's thread. Been getting some good times for me too.
I'll be there whatever the decision though, as long I remember to submit in time?
Tedehur
Staff Emeritus
- 4,322
- France
- Z spec
If you start a time trial and save the replay (instead of saving the ghost), the time displayed in the replay manager is the exact total time of all completed laps, ignoring the pre-start and post-finish portions.
It works for Arcade mode, I still have to check that the Free Run session in GT Mode works in the same way.
It works for Arcade mode, I still have to check that the Free Run session in GT Mode works in the same way.
- 3,971
- driehuis (nl)
- GTP_Steven
the gullwing is a very fine car to me - especially when its fully tuned - but the Ring i dont know. its 1 of the tracks where people with lots of time have an infinite advantage over those that just like to play a bit.Flat-out
nsx/EC: fantastic, EC is to me the best track of all, and the nsx is a great car, especially in one of the faster specs such as the lm.
i say: go for the second option ASAP.
thanks.
- 1,424
- Kent, UK.
- DG_1275GT
Flat-out
Thanks for clearing that up for me, showing my WRS inexperience.
I'm sure I'll get it when you decide to run it anyway, I make it a point of reading the first post twice now anyway, then checking it again when I come back with my first set of times, spent the first day of the F1 @ nNew York with -20% instead of -10% power because I didn't "RTFM" properly. 
Edit: disregard the next bit, I've just reread your first post on this subject.
I assume there will be a maximum lap limit, the replay file may become too large to upload, I know some people had trouble with the BMW Mclaren @ Le Sarthe being bigger than the .max upload limits, plus I'm not sure how many people would want to check replays where submitted laps are on lap 3 then lap 10?
Look down.
I think that one's a no vote Cyril?
