Tell us about your Nations and Manufacturers race

[nige48]

depends on your driverrating...

Iam A/S and i got for the win today 1500 points so u are C or D/S?

OK, so a question for Polyphony Digital, I'm pretty sure the FIA doesn't award more points per finish position based on a driver "rating" even though "ratings" do exist in FIA endurance racing. The FIA WEC rates drivers as P : Platinum - G : Gold - S : Silver - B : Bronze but that DOES NOT determine how many points they earn for a given finishing position. I don't know of any real world racing series that awards higher points for a finish position based on some arbitrary "driver rating" designation. F1, WEC, NASCAR, Rallye, IndyCar, etc. are all the same points for a given finish position, nothing else.

I can't spend 24x7 playing what is rapidly becoming a less than satisfying game. The number of times I've been punted off by someone driving like they were under the influence, is extremely annoying especially as I take extreme care to avoid other cars. Now the points are awarded based on a driver rating and it is absolutely impossible for me to compete with players with a higher driver rating earned because they spend more time on the game than I can afford.

So what's the use? Why participate if the true skill of the participant cannot be accurately demonstrated? World Championships are won based on points per finishing position, not on how many times you participate. Max Verstappen gets the same points for an F1 win as Lewis Hamilton, even he is in F1 only a few seasons and Hamilton has been participating much longer.

The points awards need to be based on finishing position alone, not on driver "rating." If GT Sport is supposed to reflect "real life" racing then do it. Anything else is both patently unfair and I'm going to ask for my Playstation Plus fees to be refunded.

So do you think it makes sense in GTS that a slow driver (DR D) who wins his race gets more points than an alien who finishes 2nd, tenths behind another alien?

In GTS we have a world/regional ranking where everyone is included. If DR D drivers could get the same points of DR S/A drivers but way easily, what would be the point in getting to DR S/A? Improving your DR just to get less points due to tougher competition? Makes no sense IMO.

The purpose of Driver Ratings should be to assure that A rated drivers compete against A rated drivers in online racing. That should help eliminate the complaints of the skidders with a E rating punting off an A rated driver and ruining his race. Points should be awarded as in the real world.

 

[stevenhiggster]

My Internet was down yesterday so no race for me! Apparently someone somewhere cut through one of Virgin's cables and the whole of Ayrshire was left with no Internet or TV for hours!
So it's a good thing it only counts your 3 best scores as I've only taken part in 3 races!

 

[nige48]

F1 has a driver rating of S (well, you need a Super Licence to compete, so let's call it S).

If Verstappen spent this weekend mucking about in British F4 instead, where the driver rating is C, it doesn't seem reasonable to suggest that he should get his points counted as if he'd earned them in the F1 Brazilian Grand Prix.


Beat the cars you're up against and you'll score better than if you don't, and you'll advance in DR more than if you don't. When you start racing against DR A/S fields, your points will be directly comparable to them.

To score well:
A good SR and good practice time will put you in a good strength field, where there's more points available.
A good qualifying time seems to give you a better score than a poor qualifying time.
A good finishing position

To score badly:
A poor SR and poor practice time will put you in a poor strength field, where there are fewer points available.
A poor qualifying time seems to give you a worse score than a good qualifying time.
A poor finishing position


If you qualify on pole and win with the fastest lap, but you and your opponents are all DR D/E ranked, you'll not get many points. If you qualify and finish in 8th when you and your opponents are all DR B/A/S ranking, you'll get hundreds of points.

If Max spend the weekend mucking about in a British F4 race he should get the "points" for the position in which he finished in the F4 race. If he drives F1 that weekend he should get the points for the position in which he finished in the F1 race. Show me a series, WEC, F1, etc. where a driver rating increases or decreases the "points" awarded for a given finishing position. The driver rating should assure that A racers compete against A racers and D racers compete against D racers until they upgrade their rating at which time they could compete against racers in a higher rating bracket based on their new rating, which hopefully is a reflection of their driving skill and professional approach to the race.

 

[zzz_pt]

@nige48 in GTS everyone is racing in the same series. But because you can't put everyone on the same track/lobby, drivers are splitted by their DR/pace. Even though they're competing in different lobbies it's like they would be in the same race. As an example, a first place of a DR B more or less means the place behind the 20th DR A if they would be racing in the same lobby.

This is how I see it.

 

[Famine]

If Max spend the weekend mucking about in a British F4 race he should get the "points" for the position in which he finished in the F4 race.

And that's the point. He'll get F4 points, which are comparable to other F4 drivers, not F1 points which are comparable to F1 drivers.

DR S drivers against each other is F1. DR C/D drivers against each other is F4. If you race and win in F4, you certainly outscore other drivers in F4, but the points you score are not comparable to, and thus lesser in value than, the points the drivers racing against each other in F1 are getting.

And you can't get into F1 and score points comparable to other F1 drivers unless you put the time and effort in to get through the lower tiers first.

 

[Jonnyboi]

Input on the points, I have won 3 FIA races now and one in 2nd and another in 3rd. I've had between 500-600 per race, Then I see someone in one race has earned 1300 points, pretty unfair, Unless you're top of the ranking there seams to be no point even taking part? To me a win is a win, so they should all give the same points no matter on skill, you don't see that in any other sport.

But onto the last two days, i3 race was fun, an tiny mistake you made cost dearly!

But the main one for me was Bathurst, I was really look forward to this round as it's my favourite track. So got the 86 out, did a solid 45 mins practice to get laps down ready for the 22:00 race, Was running consistent 2:18s, thought that was pretty good, could see a few extra tenths to gain but was happy. But then I looked at the leader boards and noticed 2:14s.... Like really, looked at the cars they were using, Scirocco, Megane and Viper. So with the 15 mins I had planned to take a break, I got in the VW, 3rd lap got into the 2:16s with mistakes, BOP just doesn't work at the moment, the straight line speed is overkill to the fact it's FF so slower through certain corners and especially up the mountain. So I did the race in the VW, set pole by 1sec, Lead the entire race till lap 7, in the braking zone for the Chase, felt I got a nudge, but wasnt fully sure, well off the track I go "cutting the corner" 7 second penalty.... After the race and in 2nd i watched the replay and yes, I was nudged, fumming in the end. but that's racing hey..

Gonna give a miss on the races tonight, BF1 time, have a break from being rear ended.

 

[stevenhiggster]

Input on the points, I have won 3 FIA races now and one in 2nd and another in 3rd. I've had between 500-600 per race, Then I see someone in one race has earned 1300 points, pretty unfair, Unless you're top of the ranking there seams to be no point even taking part? To me a win is a win, so they should all give the same points no matter on skill, you don't see that in any other sport.

But onto the last two days, i3 race was fun, an tiny mistake you made cost dearly!

But the main one for me was Bathurst, I was really look forward to this round as it's my favourite track. So got the 86 out, did a solid 45 mins practice to get laps down ready for the 22:00 race, Was running consistent 2:18s, thought that was pretty good, could see a few extra tenths to gain but was happy. But then I looked at the leader boards and noticed 2:14s.... Like really, looked at the cars they were using, Scirocco, Megane and Viper. So with the 15 mins I had planned to take a break, I got in the VW, 3rd lap got into the 2:16s with mistakes, BOP just doesn't work at the moment, the straight line speed is overkill to the fact it's FF so slower through certain corners and especially up the mountain. So I did the race in the VW, set pole by 1sec, Lead the entire race till lap 7, in the braking zone for the Chase, felt I got a nudge, but wasnt fully sure, well off the track I go "cutting the corner" 7 second penalty.... After the race and in 2nd i watched the replay and yes, I was nudged, fumming in the end. but that's racing hey..

Gonna give a miss on the races tonight, BF1 time, have a break from being rear ended.

I agree with your comment about what's the point taking part unless you are in the top DR rankings, which remember can be achieved not just through skill but just by playing more often than others.
They should just score everyone the same but break it into different leagues for different ranked drivers. A win is a win and should be rewarded as such regardless.
A team in the 3rd division still gets 3 points for a win. They're just in a lower league.
What point is there I a D ranked driver taking part when no matter if he wins every race from pole he'll never outscore a B ranked driver who finishes 10th in every race?

 

[Famine]

Input on the points, I have won 3 FIA races now and one in 2nd and another in 3rd. I've had between 500-600 per race, Then I see someone in one race has earned 1300 points, pretty unfair, Unless you're top of the ranking there seams to be no point even taking part? To me a win is a win, so they should all give the same points no matter on skill, you don't see that in any other sport.

Most sports have divisions, and teams/players are ranked within their own divisions. They only compare within their own divisions, not outside them.

Sure, Chesterfield get 3pt for beating Crawley, just the same as Chelsea get 3pt for beating Manchester United, but Chelsea are three divisions higher. Their 3pt isn't comparable to Chesterfield's 3pt, even though it seems the same numerically. And George Russell gets 25pt for winning a GP3 Series race, just as Lewis Hamilton gets 25pt for winning an F1 race. They're the same numerically, but incomparable as one is two categories higher than the other.

Think of Driver Rating as divisions or tiers. If you're a D-ranked driver beating other D-ranked drivers, you're better than other D-ranked drivers. You're not better than S-ranked (or A-ranked, as there aren't any S-ranked drivers in circulation that I can tell at the moment; perhaps a handful?) drivers, until you're an S-ranked driver beating other S-ranked drivers.

As driver ranking is highly mobile, drivers are moving between divisions on a daily basis, so rather than giving a D-winner 25pt and an S-winner 25pt, PD simply scales the race results by the strength of the field. Winners in races where drivers average an S ranking get more points than winners in races where drivers average an A ranking, who get more points than winners in races where drivers average a B ranking, and so on down to D/E ranking.


If you want more points, set a top twenty practice time and be S-ranked for SR. That'll get you into the higher divisions where you score more points.

What point is there I a D ranked driver taking part when no matter if he wins every race from pole he'll never outscore a B ranked driver who finishes 10th in every race?

That rather depends on what you think the point of the online races, and specifically the FIA events, actually is.

The purpose of Sport Mode and DR is to rank you according to how fast you are. The purpose of the FIA Nations/Manufacturers events is to rank you according to how fast you are compared to other people from the same nation or who like the same manufacturer. That's pretty much it. If you're a D-ranked driver and you're beating other D-ranked drivers, the answer is "not as fast as S-ranked drivers who are beating other S-ranked drivers".


The points system actually seems to use the same basic method as the DR ranking system. Essentially that means that the higher you qualify and place against higher quality fields, the more you progress. That's how the FIA points system works too, only it gives you a score you can see, rather than a progress bar you're guessing at (but which has a score behind it that you can't see).

I think that SR limits DR, but I don't have enough information to be any more precise than to say it seems as though you can't increase DR above C unless your SR is also above C (but then everyone starts at SR B, so that shouldn't be a problem, and you can hit SR S inside five races). If you're quick enough, you can rattle up to DR B in just ten races.

But even as a DR E driver, you can drive against DR A drivers. I've done it myself. Just get your SR up to S (it's remarkably hard to lose it - it took me three disqualifications for 90s+ of penalties from shortcuts and wall-riding to go from S to B) and set fast qualifying/practice times. If you can't, you're not fast enough to race against DR A drivers.

 

[Spurgy 777]

(or A-ranked, as there aren't any S-ranked drivers in circulation that I can tell at the moment; perhaps a handful?)

There are a few, no more than 10 I'd say.

 

[Firehuntah]

Almost forgot to share yesterdays races. They both weren't that great though, points of them didn't even count.


The sixth round in test season 1 of the FIA GT Nations Cup, racing with the Volkswagen Scirocco Gr.4 at Mount Panorama. Up against many of the top drivers and not getting a good lap in, I didn't qualify in a good position, 16th only. Start of the race was good, trying to gain a position on the long straight heading into the next corner but it didn't go well since the other driver turned into me and on corner exit cut right in front of me so I had to slow down. This allowed the driver behind me to pass me and we both ran wide in the next corner. With him hitting the wall I again had to slow down to avoid contact. Driver behind me at that point (@turnupdaheat ) couldn't avoid me anymore and made me kiss the wall, putting me dead last after just a few corners. Really had to push hard after that to still make something out of that race and it turned out pretty well still. Had quite a few overtakes and ended the race in 12th position.



The sixth round in test season 1 of the FIA GT Manufacturer Series, racing with the Subaru WRX Gr.3 at Lago Maggiore. Again up against many of the top drivers and the WRX not being really good here, I only qualified 11th while I had a pretty good lap. The game messed up however, when it showed my car driving I was already up in 12th position and pretty far behind 11th before the race even started. The race itself was pretty nice though, the first real overtake being a pretty close call, I nearly hit him but luckily managed to avoid him (3.45 in video). Then 2 laps after I was up to 9th place after a pretty nice overtake on corner exit, mainly by taking the shortest available route by staying on the inside which I normally never do there. I was then stuck there untill lap 9, getting close to the driver in 8th a few times but not being able to overtake. We were then able to overtake the driver in front of us both since he was a bit slower. In the last few corners I still got very close to the other driver so I tried to push him into a mistake by letting him think I was going to dive up the inside but he just kept his line so I couldn't really do anything anymore and finished the race in 8th place.



And this is what happened at the rolling start of that manufacturer race. Really stupid, this shouldn't happen in any of the online races, let alone an official FIA one. I know it's only the test season but still.. This issue has been around since the launch of the game and hasn't been fixed yet. This has to be fixed before the start of the real season.

 

[nige48]

And that's the point. He'll get F4 points, which are comparable to other F4 drivers, not F1 points which are comparable to F1 drivers.

DR S drivers against each other is F1. DR C/D drivers against each other is F4. If you race and win in F4, you certainly outscore other drivers in F4, but the points you score are not comparable to, and thus lesser in value than, the points the drivers racing against each other in F1 are getting.

And you can't get into F1 and score points comparable to other F1 drivers unless you put the time and effort in to get through the lower tiers first.

We agree but with some confusion. If Max competes in F4 he gets the points for his finishing position in the F4 race. The other F4 racers would not be allowed in F1 if they didn't have a Superlicense. But in F4 they would earn the same points as Max in that F4 race despite the fact that they don't have a super license.

So potentially, GT Sport should prevent drivers entering the Nations Cup of Manufacturers series unless they have an A rating.
But they don't. All drivers are allowed to enter all races. So the points awarded for 1st place at Blue Moon Speedway should be the same. The race track is the same, the number of laps are the same and there are 20 cars in the race.

In the FIA World Endurance Series drivers are rated P : Platinum - G : Gold - S : Silver - B : Bronze but that DOES NOT determine how many points they earn for a given finishing position. Often a three driver team has drivers with different ratings. Check the LeMans entry list for example.

In the FIA WEC, it is the same race and the same effort and the points rewarded for a given finishing position are the same. The Gold rated driver on a team gets the same driver championship points as his Platinum rated teammate. A Bronze rated driver who finishes first gets the same points as a Platinum rated driver would get if he finished first.

Again, my point is that A drivers should compete against A racers so that the racing experience of the A driver is better and not messed up having to compete against D rated drivers. This could eliminate a lot of complaints about online racing when good drivers get punted off by drivers weaving all over the track.

But if Polyphony Digital wants GT Sport to reflect real life, the points awarded to a D rated driver for a given finishing position in a given race should be the same as an A driver. Same race, Same track, Same points for a given finishing position.

If the D rated driver cannot score the same points in a given race as the A rated driver, why bother? It's a losing proposition from the start. Absolutely no reason to compete. And for people who can't spend all their waking minutes playing racing games to improve their rating, the entire Nations Cup and Manufacturers series is both unrealistic and a total waste of time and money paid for Playstation Plus.

Maybe GT Sport should prevent anyone not having an A rating from participating in the Nations Cup and Manufacturers series. That would follow the F1 example that only drivers with a Super license can compete in F1.

But they don't. All drivers are allowed to compete in all races. Same Race, Same Track.

Again, Polyphony Digital touts GT Sport as a way to get an FIA GT racing license. There is no difference in the points awarded for a given finishing position in the real world FIA GT racing based on a driver rating. (again look at LeMans or any of the FIA WEC races). Anything else makes the game even more unrealistic than it already is.

 

[Matt368]

How many points did you get for winning? I won my race and got 74 points. I am seeing others getting 1,000's of points for a win.

It can't be any other way, regardless of how many real series you look at they don't have the complexities of so many people all competing in effectively the same championship but in different races at different times.

Last night I qualified 10th and finished 10th after fighting in the mid pack in a race with nearly 5 drivers from the world top 10 and every driver had DR/A and SR/S. My practice time was a 1:56.900 which isn't slow but was nowhere near good enough to be near the front. To be competitive in this race you had to do 1:57.XXX minimum every single lap just to be near the top 6 and the winning time was 1:55.XXX which was pretty much the world number 1 or close to.

You simply cant award the winner of this race the same points as the winner of a DR/D race. The only way would be to have a certain level DR only competing for that level championship (separate championships for E, D, C, B, A, S) but since the DR is not a static thing this isn't possible and even if it was, you would end up with guys improving (who by mid season should be A/B DR) over a season and by the end would be creaming it, making it not competitive for true DR/D drivers.

 

[Famine]

In the FIA World Endurance Series drivers are rated P : Platinum - G : Gold - S : Silver - B : Bronze but that DOES NOT determine how many points they earn for a given finishing position. Often a three driver team has drivers with different ratings. Check the LeMans entry list for example.

In the FIA WEC, it is the same race and the same effort and the points rewarded for a given finishing position are the same. The Gold rated driver on a team gets the same driver championship points as his Platinum rated teammate. A Bronze rated driver who finishes first gets the same points as a Platinum rated driver would get if he finished first.

But you're talking about the same drivers in the same car doing the same race against the same opponents. This isn't that. This is drivers in different cars in different races against different opponents... of different ability.

The GTS driver ranking system is more appropriately compared to divisions or tiers, and while in real life points scored at lower tiers are numerically the same, they can't be compared across the tiers as if they have the same value. They don't, because the opponents are worse.

In GTS it seems that higher 'tier' races have higher scores simply to give more weight to higher quality fields, so that big fish in little ponds are ranked appropriately and not alongside drivers who have the speed, skill and concentration to beat drivers several seconds a lap quicker.

Again, my point is that A drivers should compete against A racers so that the racing experience of the A driver is better and not messed up having to compete against D rated drivers. This could eliminate a lot of complaints about online racing when good drivers get punted off by drivers weaving all over the track.

But if Polyphony Digital wants GT Sport to reflect real life, the points awarded to a D rated driver for a given finishing position in a given race should be the same as an A driver. Same race, Same track, Same points for a given finishing position.

But only if the D and A driver are in the same race. If they're in different races against different strengths of opposition, they're racing in different tiers and can't be compared. If they're in the same race against the same opposition, they are in direct competition and can be compared.

A D-ranked DR driver could simply be someone who's picked up the game for the first time and done one race. It's meaningless in terms of their speed or ability. That's rather why the matchmaking seems to look at SR rating (for drivers who at least know how to get through several races without falling off) and practice time trial times (for how fast they actually are) to create its lobbies, and not so much at DR.

If you're a D-ranked driver and you're only ever racing D-ranked drivers, you either have a poor SR, or you're not setting practice times fast enough to allow you onto the circuit with A-ranked drivers.

 

[nige48]

It can't be any other way, regardless of how many real series you look at they don't have the complexities of so many people all competing in effectively the same championship but in different races at different times.

Last night I qualified 10th and finished 10th after fighting in the mid pack in a race with nearly 5 drivers from the world top 10 and every driver had DR/A and SR/S. My practice time was a 1:56.900 which isn't slow but was nowhere near good enough to be near the front. To be competitive in this race you had to do 1:57.XXX minimum every single lap just to be near the top 6 and the winning time was 1:55.XXX which was pretty much the world number 1 or close to.

You simply cant award the winner of this race the same points as the winner of a DR/D race. The only way would be to have a certain level DR only competing for that level championship (separate championships for E, D, C, B, A, S) but since the DR is not a static thing this isn't possible and even if it was, you would end up with guys improving (who by mid season should be A/B DR) over a season and by the end would be creaming it, making it not competitive for true DR/D drivers.

So help me understand. I believe you and other people are saying that there are A rated races and D rated races, thus the difference in points. You mentioned the existence of a DR/D race.

But if you have a rating less than A why would the system put you in a race with A rated drivers. Why weren't you in a DR/D race, if your rating is D or a DR/C race if your rating is C.

But it seems the system did put you in a race last night with A rated drivers and as you said, possibly the world number 1 or close to it.

So why should you get fewer points for a given finishing position in your race regardless of your rating. If the A rated driver get 1000 points for a win then you should as well. If you beat the A rated drivers that's excellent and it should have two effects: 1) you get the same points as they did and thus more chance to advance in the overall series positions, and 2) your driver rating should improve based on your performance.

Again, to follow the logic of DR/A races and DR/D races, etc., drivers with less than an A rating should not be allowed in DR/A races.

 

[nige48]

But you're talking about the same drivers in the same car doing the same race against the same opponents. This isn't that. This is drivers in different cars in different races against different opponents... of different ability.

The GTS driver ranking system is more appropriately compared to divisions or tiers, and while in real life points scored at lower tiers are numerically the same, they can't be compared across the tiers as if they have the same value. They don't, because the opponents are worse.

In GTS it seems that higher 'tier' races have higher scores simply to give more weight to higher quality fields, so that big fish in little ponds are ranked appropriately and not alongside drivers who have the speed, skill and concentration to beat drivers several seconds a lap quicker.

But only if the D and A driver are in the same race. If they're in different races against different strengths of opposition, they're racing in different tiers and can't be compared. If they're in the same race against the same opposition, they are in direct competition and can be compared.

A D-ranked DR driver could simply be someone who's picked up the game for the first time and done one race. It's meaningless in terms of their speed or ability. That's rather why the matchmaking seems to look at SR rating (for drivers who at least know how to get through several races without falling off) and practice time trial times (for how fast they actually are) to create its lobbies, and not so much at DR.

If you're a D-ranked driver and you're only ever racing D-ranked drivers, you either have a poor SR, or you're not setting practice times fast enough to allow you onto the circuit with A-ranked drivers.

You are absolutely correct when you say "If they're ( a D rated driver and an A rated driver ) in the same race against the same opposition, they are in direct competition and can be compared."

Thus if they can be compared, they should all have equal opportunity to earn the same points. The D rated driver should earn 1000 points for a win in that race if the A rated driver would also earn 1000 points for a win in that race. On the other hand, where is the accomplishment for the A rated driver if all he does is beat a bunch of D rated drivers and earns 1000 points? Big deal, not much of an accomplishment there.

Again, the A rated driver should be competing against other A rated drivers, etc. it's a simple software issue. If all the data is on the PD servers it's pretty simple to group A drivers against A drivers, etc.

 

[Tidgney]

You are absolutely correct when you say "If they're ( a D rated driver and an A rated driver ) in the same race against the same opposition, they are in direct competition and can be compared."

Thus if they can be compared, they should all have equal opportunity to earn the same points. The D rated driver should earn 1000 points for a win in that race if the A rated driver would also earn 1000 points for a win in that race. On the other hand, where is the accomplishment for the A rated driver if all he does is beat a bunch of D rated drivers and earns 1000 points? Big deal, not much of an accomplishment there.

Again, the A rated driver should be competing against other A rated drivers, etc. it's a simple software issue. If all the data is on the PD servers it's pretty simple to group A drivers against A drivers, etc.

If they did that prepare for some ultimate sand bagging from aliens and thus a far worse experience for a lot of people not even having the chance to win races.

Points are based on lobby strength, if you end up with a few A's in your lobby the lobby strength goes up. If you end up with a lobby of a couple of A's a lot of B's and the odd C there will be a formula to give it a strength and each position will have points multiplied by that factor (I assume) thus if you come 4th you get that amount of points. I think the points system is fair in that sense because an S driver racing S drivers might come 4th but the same S driver would dominate an A lobby so he shouldn't get as many points because it's an easy win vs less skilled drivers.

Almost forgot to share yesterdays races. They both weren't that great though, points of them didn't even count.


The sixth round in test season 1 of the FIA GT Nations Cup, racing with the Volkswagen Scirocco Gr.4 at Mount Panorama. Up against many of the top drivers and not getting a good lap in, I didn't qualify in a good position, 16th only. Start of the race was good, trying to gain a position on the long straight heading into the next corner but it didn't go well since the other driver turned into me and on corner exit cut right in front of me so I had to slow down. This allowed the driver behind me to pass me and we both ran wide in the next corner. With him hitting the wall I again had to slow down to avoid contact. Driver behind me at that point (@turnupdaheat ) couldn't avoid me anymore and made me kiss the wall, putting me dead last after just a few corners. Really had to push hard after that to still make something out of that race and it turned out pretty well still. Had quite a few overtakes and ended the race in 12th position.

You can see on the last lap me being punted off at the chase lol.

 

[Famine]

Thus if they can be compared, they should all have equal opportunity to earn the same points. The D rated driver should earn 1000 points for a win in that race if the A rated driver would also earn 1000 points for a win in that race. On the other hand, where is the accomplishment for the A rated driver if all he does is beat a bunch of D rated drivers and earns 1000 points? Big deal, not much of an accomplishment there.

As far as I can tell, from my experiments with my backup account, there are two things that affect the points scored in FIA races. They are:
Finishing position (this seems to be fixed)
Group Average Rating (this seems to be a fixed multiplier)

As one can only beat the field that you're put up against, that seems entirely appropriate. And an A-ranked driver is only going to end up in a lobby with 19 D-ranked drivers if they have a poor practice time trial (or has somehow let their SR slide to C or worse after gaining an DR A ranking; I've no idea if this is possible, but I will test it). It would seem fair that whoever wins that race gets the same points whether they are the A or one of the Ds. They still had to be 14 of the same cars, and their rival.

It would also seem fair that they get fewer points than a D-ranked driver who has a very good practice time trial, ends up in a lobby of A-ranked drivers and wins. In fact it would seem fair that this much faster D-ranked driver would get more points even for an 18th place finish, as he had to beat at least two A-ranked drivers to get their, while his colleague only had to beat one.

This doesn't seem to be entirely the case - it looks like there's a sharp drop-off in points after 12th place, and it may require 15th or better to equal the D-lobby victory - but it's not far off.


There may be a second modifier, which is the player's own DR, but I've yet to determine whether this is the case or not. Qualifying position might also play a part, but I don't know for sure whether it does or not.

 

[stevenhiggster]

So basically what we're saying here is that unless you are rated A/S then the FIA championships are just a bit of pointless fun?
That's pretty much the gist.

 

[Matt368]

So help me understand. I believe you and other people are saying that there are A rated races and D rated races, thus the difference in points. You mentioned the existence of a DR/D race.

But if you have a rating less than A why would the system put you in a race with A rated drivers. Why weren't you in a DR/D race, if your rating is D or a DR/C race if your rating is C.

But it seems the system did put you in a race last night with A rated drivers and as you said, possibly the world number 1 or close to it.

So why should you get fewer points for a given finishing position in your race regardless of your rating. If the A rated driver get 1000 points for a win then you should as well. If you beat the A rated drivers that's excellent and it should have two effects: 1) you get the same points as they did and thus more chance to advance in the overall series positions, and 2) your driver rating should improve based on your performance.

Again, to follow the logic of DR/A races and DR/D races, etc., drivers with less than an A rating should not be allowed in DR/A races.

No, sorry if I didn't explain very well. The entire field was DR/A and SR/S including me because that is where my level seems to have settled for the moment. What I was saying is that some guys are confused why they get less points for winning a race populated by DR/D drivers when others get significantly more for finishing 6th in a DR/A field.

I agree in an ideal world that driver rating should always be matched but its difficult when other factors also effect matching. You could have a DR/D driver who is newer to the game but can match the top 10 lap times and be SR/S so for close racing they "should" be matched with others with a similar time (probably mostly DR/A) and he would then get a lot of points for finishing well in that race because of the strength of the field.

It is for this reason that if somebody wins a DR/A SR/S exclusive race against most of the top 10 fastest drivers in the world where the spread of times is probably 2 seconds from 1st to 20th then you can't have the winner getting the same points as the winner of DR/D field. Not unless there were separate championships for driver ratings where strength of field would become relative.

As it stand we are all competing in the same championship. Would you expect to be level on points with the fastest in the world when your lap times are 10 seconds a lap slower but you have won as many races? (not saying you are, just an example)

 

[ShiftingGears]

Pole by 1.5 seconds at Tokyo Expressway. In first going in to turn 1, hit the braking point at turn 1 perfectly, however someone in 10th decides not to brake, ploughs into several cars, the end result is that I get punted into the wall. I incur a 10 second time penalty. After various other instances of getting chopped or pushed into the wall, the same driver catches up to me and uses me as a brake into turn 1 again. I hit the wall, and my sportsmanship rating is negatively impacted. I still finished third but the fact that the sportsmanship rating punishes people for incidents they are neither responsible for nor avoidable is difficult.

As one can only beat the field that you're put up against, that seems entirely appropriate. And an A-ranked driver is only going to end up in a lobby with 19 D-ranked drivers if they have a poor practice time trial

I don't believe that's correct. It also means the points ceiling is reduced for sports races when there just aren't many people online.

 

[nige48]

No, sorry if I didn't explain very well. The entire field was DR/A and SR/S including me because that is where my level seems to have settled for the moment. What I was saying is that some guys are confused why they get less points for winning a race populated by DR/D drivers when others get significantly more for finishing 6th in a DR/A field.

I agree in an ideal world that driver rating should always be matched but its difficult when other factors also effect matching. You could have a DR/D driver who is newer to the game but can match the top 10 lap times and be SR/S so for close racing they "should" be matched with others with a similar time (probably mostly DR/A) and he would then get a lot of points for finishing well in that race because of the strength of the field.

It is for this reason that if somebody wins a DR/A SR/S exclusive race against most of the top 10 fastest drivers in the world where the spread of times is probably 2 seconds from 1st to 20th then you can't have the winner getting the same points as the winner of DR/D field. Not unless there were separate championships for driver ratings where strength of field would become relative.

As it stand we are all competing in the same championship. Would you expect to be level on points with the fastest in the world when your lap times are 10 seconds a lap slower but you have won as many races? (not saying you are, just an example)

If I'm a DR/D driver I wouldn't expect to be in a DR/A field at all. I would need to get to A level to compete at that level. However, if for some reason the system put me in a field of all DR/A drivers (for whatever reason) I would expect to get the same points if I somehow won the race, as the DR/A driver would.

 

[Matt368]

Yeah I agree nige, it shouldn't happen. I meant from a close racing stand point that times would be relevant but the DR system would just put the rapid D driver in with other D drivers and he'd clear off, I think this is what would happen?

Also, I believe you would get a lot more points if you did win my example race and you would get a healthy increase in your DR rating too because of the strength of field? Is that what you think would happen too?

 

[Seikenfreak]

So basically what we're saying here is that unless you are rated A/S then the FIA championships are just a bit of pointless fun?
That's pretty much the gist.

Yeap. And that's what video games are about. Fun. It is also pointless fun for those in A/S. People need to race their own race. That means, stop worrying about all the other people. Did you finish and perform well in the race you participated in? Great. You should feel good about that. You won at playing this game. And I don't mean that sarcastically. If I'm going to play basketball, my personal benchmark will be something of an old, out of shape, unskilled, lazy dude who's never played basketball.. Not Michael Jordan. Why would I be upset that I didn't play at his level?

F1 has a driver rating of S (well, you need a Super Licence to compete, so let's call it S).

If Verstappen spent this weekend mucking about in British F4 instead, where the driver rating is C, it doesn't seem reasonable to suggest that he should get his points counted as if he'd earned them in the F1 Brazilian Grand Prix.

I love these comparisons because it makes complete sense, super cut and dry, yet people can't seem to wrap their head around and adapt it to GT Sport. "Hey guys, my team and I won the minor league baseball game at the local park after school so.. I'm pretty sure we should be world champions."

Amazed people are still upset about this point stuff.

 

[Matt368]

If Max spend the weekend mucking about in a British F4 race he should get the "points" for the position in which he finished in the F4 race. If he drives F1 that weekend he should get the points for the position in which he finished in the F1 race. Show me a series, WEC, F1, etc. where a driver rating increases or decreases the "points" awarded for a given finishing position.

I think its this that is the wrong analogy. These are separate championships from one another and so you can score maximum points in each regardless of the strength of field because the points will never apply to the same championship.

Because GT Sport is one big championship for every ability it means that with your analogy applied to real life motorsport, an F1 driver could win the F1 title by dominating F4 and using the points gained from that.

It would be a lot easier for an A driver to drop down to a D level, dominate without breaking a sweat, get the same points as a guy busting his arse in A level races and so by dropping down he would cruise to an easy overall title, no?

 

[qwbufp]

So what’s going to happen to us in the Americas? We could only enter one race and it was a mess with Gr.3/4 cars. Will they just cancel these rounds or rerun them tonight?

 

[qwbufp]

So they will not count the points awarded yesterday:

http://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gtsport/news/00_5254264.html

So Tokyo and Nürburgring tonight and that’s it for Test Season 1

 

[zzz_pt]

So basically what we're saying here is that unless you are rated A/S then the FIA championships are just a bit of pointless fun?
That's pretty much the gist.

This happens in all competitive multiplayer game that has a ranking system. I don't think only the people on top have fun. Over 95% of players of [insert game here] are having fun online despite not being the faster, having the better aim, most strategic, etc. Unless you can only have fun if you're the best in the world, you will be disappointed with every single game out there.

 

[stevenhiggster]

This happens in all competitive multiplayer game that has a ranking system. I don't think only the people on top have fun. Over 95% of players of [insert game here] are having fun online despite not being the faster, having the better aim, most strategic, etc. Unless you can only have fun if you're the best in the world, you will be disappointed with every single game out there.

That's not the point of the FIA races though, that's what normal sport mode is for.
I'm not complaining btw, I knew I would never win anything lol. But what I am saying is that there really is no point anyone taking part other than the top guys when you're points aren't in any way representative of how well you are doing against anyone really.
Especially when PD have never explained or even attempted to explain the scoring system.

 

[Earth]

So basically what we're saying here is that unless you are rated A/S then the FIA championships are just a bit of pointless fun?
That's pretty much the gist.

Wait until the real season starts, and it will be pointless fun unless you're anything but S/S

 

[zzz_pt]

That's not the point of the FIA races though, that's what normal sport mode is for.
I'm not complaining btw, I knew I would never win anything lol. But what I am saying is that there really is no point anyone taking part other than the top guys when you're points aren't in any way representative of how well you are doing against anyone really.
Especially when PD have never explained or even attempted to explain the scoring system.

I find the points pretty representative of the overall skill and pace of drivers and they do more or less give you an idea of how well you're doing against everyone else (not only against the 19 people you raced against) . And it will be more stable given enough time so everyone has his or her adequate DR. Also, I have fun while on track racing, not looking at points. If I'm fast and everyone on my lobby is fast, I'll have fun. If I'm slow and everyone in my lobby is slow, I'll have fun. If I'm fast and everyone is slow, I won't have fun. If I'm slow and everyone is fast, even less fun.