That's it I'm DONE with Daily Races and FIA Demolition Derbies

[Mires]

I too have had a fair few idiots ruining it. I’m currently struggling to get my head round how I end up with a 10 sec penalty when I have been blasted from behind.
I have 2 possible solutions for the online. Firstly surely they could force any penalties to be taken within a time limit thus stopping people running them down over several laps which may help a little. Secondly why not polyphony have people actually within races looking out for those that blatantly in there ruining it, it’s a bit of a stretch but possibly then banning these plonkers for a period of time wether this is possible, I don’t know but it’s a thought

Your idea is nice, but with tens of thousands of players there would be massive amount of real stewards needed for each room (FIA cups) which is impossible to manage, unfortunately.

 

[JulesDennis]

Your idea is nice, but with tens of thousands of players there would be massive amount of real stewards needed for each room (FIA cups) which is impossible to manage, unfortunately.

You are right.Its imposible to do something like that.I suspect they are going to do that when they have a Gran Final race with the top 20 global players,in a public and impressive show,streamed live.
But if you are going for e-sports and pretty much try to be the iRacing version of PS4 -and even more than that-,at least copy-paste some of the things that that title does best.
I can understand you will not go "full sim" physics (because PS4 cannot handle that and the superior graphics at the same time and this is not a racing title "for some" but for everyone),I know that PS4 plus cannot handle VR the same way Pc platform does but at least copy the penalty/ranking system or better improve it.Thats something you can do and people would have zero reasons to moan about.Its not perfect but it is working for 10 years now.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Mostly spot on 👍

However, as someone that would probably be placed in the second group (I'm not an alien, but I'm fast enough to race pretty much anyone) I'll say this... I have no problem who I'm matched with, be that D/S or A/S... I don't look down on anyone playing the game, no matter their skill levels. And the slower cars on the grid don't affect me at all... I out qualify them, and never see them again in a race.

I'm having a great time on line - I'm B/S, and I haven't had any issues with punting other than 1 guy who missed his brake point in to the hairpin at Suzuka and took 2 of us out. But I've never been outside a top 4 grid slot in any race I've entered.

Had one amazing race Friday evening in the Grp3 event at Magione - 10 laps in the RSR with tyre wear on. Qualified 2nd, leader ran wide early on, leaving me and another guy in an RSR out front. The lead changed hands several times, both of us made no major mistakes, and neither of us managed to get more than a 0.6s lead... some minor rubbing during overtakes, but no serious contact. Proper sweaty palms stuff.

Ran 7 grp4 races at Nurb GP back to back on Saturday and all were super clean, super fast. 6 consecutive clean races (would have been 7, but in the 1st race I outbraked myself in to the chicane on the final lap whilst leading and got a cut penalty ).

Your experience doesn't translate to the masses though. I'm in the 1% that could say I had a great time in open lobbies in GT5 and GT6 for the most part. Why? I almost always started on pole or at least on the front row. I'm sure you know as well as I do there is almost a direct relationship between speed and clean driving. Almost all the fast drivers I've run across in this franchise were good, clean, fair racers. The further back in the grid you get the more carnage there is. Drivers generally have less control of their cars to begin with, collision physics are generally atrocious, one bump leads to another and next thing you know it's a smashup derby. Starting consistently at the front gives you a huge advantage both in track position and speed, meaning the likelihood of having to deal with anyone behind you for more than a corner or two. You saying your experience is good while truthful, is a bit like Lewis Hamilton saying, "Mate I think the aero in these cars is fine. I don't have any problems with loss of downforce while being in the slipstream"

 

[ApprenticeBu]

Hello everyone! I'm new here and this is mi firts post...
I had a reading of the majority of the messages on this topic and I'll try to explain my thoughts. I'm a clean racer and I prefer 6th clean than 1st drivebombing. When I make some cornering mistake and touching other cars I let them pass. Also if I'm not completely sure the mistake was mine.... But also with this driving philosophy is difficult for me going up from SR B.
I had an idea of how to try to become SR S to try the cleanest competitions in daily and FIA races. What if I run many daily races not running for the 1st position but intentionally remaining in the last one for the whole race?
I could have all clean races until I get my SR S and then I can go for clean races even from driver level D or E.... And maybe doing it again to SR S if unfortunately I'm downgraded to SR A. What do you think of this tactic? (sorry for my lacking-grammar english)

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Your idea is nice, but with tens of thousands of players there would be massive amount of real stewards needed for each room (FIA cups) which is impossible to manage, unfortunately.

I personally don’t think it would take thousands of stewards as you possibly only need a handful joining random races. This alone could possibly be a deterrent just knowing there’s a possibility of stewards been in attendance.

 

[Stotty]

Your experience doesn't translate to the masses though. I'm in the 1% that could say I had a great time in open lobbies in GT5 and GT6 for the most part. Why? I almost always started on pole or at least on the front row. I'm sure you know as well as I do there is almost a direct relationship between speed and clean driving. Almost all the fast drivers I've run across in this franchise were good, clean, fair racers. The further back in the grid you get the more carnage there is. Drivers generally have less control of their cars to begin with, collision physics are generally atrocious, one bump leads to another and next thing you know it's a smashup derby. Starting consistently at the front gives you a huge advantage both in track position and speed, meaning the likelihood of having to deal with anyone behind you for more than a corner or two. You saying your experience is good while truthful, is a bit like Lewis Hamilton saying, "Mate I think the aero in these cars is fine. I don't have any problems with loss of downforce while being in the slipstream"

Yep, completely agree with this, Johnny 👍

My posts are playing devils advocate or are provocative to some extent (by design). I know my pace makes the game easier for me and those at a similar level (or above). But I wasn't immediately fast - it took me years, and thousands of hours playing the various versions of GT to become quick... despite having every main version of the GT series (I bought a PS1 to play GT1), it wasn't until GT5P that I really understood how to be properly quick... racing people like Rudi, Timo, Zokker, Dan, Maz, MrP (and many more whose names I have long forgotten) on line night after night made me learn how to be fast... then I ran WRS week after week... and the GT5/6 time trials.

My issue with the vast majority of whining posts is people want some one to blame, or they love to moan because something isn't exactly like they want it to be. (to be clear, I'm not signaling out this post in particular - though the subject matter may be different, there are many post in a similar tone).

Just because something doesn't work the way you want it to work does not mean it's broken... as the saying goes, you can't please all of the people all of the time. There are loads of things I'd like to be different in GTS, but it is what it is. You need to make the best of it.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Mostly spot on 👍

However, as someone that would probably be placed in the second group (I'm not an alien, but I'm fast enough to race pretty much anyone) I'll say this... I have no problem who I'm matched with, be that D/S or A/S... I don't look down on anyone playing the game, no matter their skill levels. And the slower cars on the grid don't affect me at all... I out qualify them, and never see them again in a race.

I'm having a great time on line - I'm B/S, and I haven't had any issues with punting other than 1 guy who missed his brake point in to the hairpin at Suzuka and took 2 of us out. But I've never been outside a top 4 grid slot in any race I've entered.
.

You sound like a racer that is fast enough to race anyone but the very fastest most elite aliens and I commend you on your skillset.

It seems as many times when a person brings up what many may see as a legitimate concern or observation that they are classed as complaining or whining rather than wanting to see a more even parity across the board from the slowest to the fastest racers that are attempting to play the game to the best of their current skills and be competitive and race cleanly.

What I am failing to understand is what is the purpose of having a driver rating system if that rating system is not being used to set the grid as far as the skill levels competing within a race?

It appears that the SR system is at least being used as pretty much ALL the racers within the matchmaking lobby are "S" rated drivers.

But as far as the DR rating system that does not seem to come into play at all. Also the "qualifying" times do not seem to be another criteria that apparently holds much weight in the lobby matchmaking process.

It seems that just about all races are made up of a combination of class A, B, C and D racers rather than the races being divided more along the racers class and speed levels.

I saw in one race that I was in that the speed difference from the A rated #1 qualifier to the last place #20 D rated qualifier was over 17 seconds a lap!

I have seen races where the field from 7th place back in one race and 10th place back in another failed to finish the race prior to the time cutoff from the leader crossing the finish line. These observations were in the GR3 10 lap daily race on Kyoto track on the evening of Nov 6th.

When the matchmaking is so poor that only about a 1/3 of the field crosses the finish line before the time cut off it appears that something concerning the matchmaking needs some work. I would have thought this was maybe just a one time fluke but as I stated I then witnessed a race where again 1/2 the field failed to beat the cut off.

My question is with matchmaking of this sort what is even the purpose of having a Driver Rating system? Apparently the DR system is either not being used to effectively fill the racing grids or their are not enough racers within their classes participating to fill a race grid with like skill racers.

If the latter is the case then only needing 20 racers to fill a daily race grid during prime time on a server as large as North America then this game is in serious trouble as far as number of players is concerned.

I found the matchmaking was better, closer competition from the top qualifier to the last placed qualifier during the first week to 10 days of the games release.

More recent matchmaking it has become a rarity to not see A racers on the same grid with D racers. That type of matchmaking the slower class of racers are basically just grid fillers for the A class and occasional B class racer that may pull off a win.

Having that type of time difference say an average of 4 seconds a lap difference is not to help the lower class racers learn to be faster by being able to follow the faster racers as after the 3 rd corner with that type of speed difference the slower racers never see the fast racers again.

The driver rating matching system is seriously broken and needs some serious adjustments to be effective in placing competitive grids from the top to the bottom on the starting line.

The game has been out a month now and the matchmaking is getting worse rather than better.

 

[TheGeologist]

These races are starting to get a little frustrating. A kid kept hitting me in the rear last night. Eventually I said enough was enough, and brake checked him on the straight. I would have let him pass, but he didn't try to pass cleanly. The second he got to me, he hit me over and over. And I just saw him wreck another guy before he started to hit me, so I was having NONE of it. So yeah, I brake checked him.

He responded to that by going wide open into turn one and taking me out of the race. For what ever reason, he didn't get ghosted and ruined my race.

I just race people as they race me. If you're gonna hit me every point two seconds, I'll give it right back.

 

[Stotty]

You sound like a racer that is fast enough to race anyone but the very fastest most elite aliens and I commend you on your skillset.

It seems as many times when a person brings up what many may see as a legitimate concern or observation that they are classed as complaining or whining rather than wanting to see a more even parity across the board from the slowest to the fastest racers that are attempting to play the game to the best of their current skills and be competitive and race cleanly.

What I am failing to understand is what is the purpose of having a driver rating system if that rating system is not being used to set the grid as far as the skill levels competing within a race?

It appears that the SR system is at least being used as pretty much ALL the racers within the matchmaking lobby are "S" rated drivers.

But as far as the DR rating system that does not seem to come into play at all. Also the "qualifying" times do not seem to be another criteria that apparently holds much weight in the lobby matchmaking process.

It seems that just about all races are made up of a combination of class A, B, C and D racers rather than the races being divided more along the racers class and speed levels.

I saw in one race that I was in that the speed difference from the A rated #1 qualifier to the last place #20 D rated qualifier was over 17 seconds a lap!

I have seen races where the field from 7th place back in one race and 10th place back in another failed to finish the race prior to the time cutoff from the leader crossing the finish line. These observations were in the GR3 10 lap daily race on Kyoto track on the evening of Nov 6th.

When the matchmaking is so poor that only about a 1/3 of the field crosses the finish line before the time cut off it appears that something concerning the matchmaking needs some work. I would have thought this was maybe just a one time fluke but as I stated I then witnessed a race where again 1/2 the field failed to beat the cut off.

My question is with matchmaking of this sort what is even the purpose of having a Driver Rating system? Apparently the DR system is either not being used to effectively fill the racing grids or their are not enough racers within their classes participating to fill a race grid with like skill racers.

If the latter is the case then only needing 20 racers to fill a daily race grid during prime time on a server as large as North America then this game is in serious trouble as far as number of players is concerned.

I found the matchmaking was better, closer competition from the top qualifier to the last placed qualifier during the first week to 10 days of the games release.

More recent matchmaking it has become a rarity to not see A racers on the same grid with D racers. That type of matchmaking the slower class of racers are basically just grid fillers for the A class and occasional B class racer that may pull off a win.

Having that type of time difference say an average of 4 seconds a lap difference is not to help the lower class racers learn to be faster by being able to follow the faster racers as after the 3 rd corner with that type of speed difference the slower racers never see the fast racers again.

The driver rating matching system is seriously broken and needs some serious adjustments to be effective in placing competitive grids from the top to the bottom on the starting line.

The game has been out a month now and the matchmaking is getting worse rather than better.

I'd expect to be able to race anyone in the World on-line.... although winning is another story all together... you can be a second or so slower, but still keep up using the draft!

The game has only been out 3 weeks tomorrow (so 20 days).

The vast majority of drivers have not found their correct DR yet.

Using myself as an example... due to a vacation, I didn't start playing the game until 9 days after release. I spent the 1st 2.5 days golding the license tests, missions and track tests, never touching on-line. To date, I've still only had 17 races on line. I'm currently SRS, and about half way to DRA. I would expect to get to DRA in the future as I run more races... but playing time is limited for me, so it might take me another few weeks to get there.

Plus I will only enter a race if I feel I've put a proper effort in to qualifying (ie; an hour or so)... so if I have a couple of hours free after work, I might only get one 10 lap grp3 race completed.

Someone matched against me in a race may have run 50+ races, also be SRS DRB, but have reached their natural level.

They will look at my qualifying time (where I have spent an hour, and they have spent <10 minutes), and think 'why am I matched against someone 5s quicker than me?'... and this example rings true at every level/combination of matching.

IN addition, I think the time you play has a big effect on who you're matched with - play at peak time (say 18.00-21.00 GMT, outside work/school hours) and many more people are playing. So the likelihood of getting matched against the same rank is higher. And the number of DRA drivers remains tiny at this stage, so highly likley they'll will get dropped in a B race. Play outside peak times, and you'll get less of a driver pool to match from.

It is going to take time for the game to settle people in their natural speed rankings.

Have some patience.

 

[@nndr3w]

Quick and working solution:
Full damage ON
As well tire wear and grip reduction real.

Those will teach to drive with some respect.

All assists off as well. Most of the ram raiders wont get down the starting starting straight

 

[The5amkebab]

The algorithm for penalties is probably as good as they can make it right now.

The car at the Apex is allowed to be there - the car on the outside must give room.

Even in real racing, cars sliding to the outside of the track (a few F1 drivers have recently used the "I just understeered" excuse to explain hitting someone else after an optimistic dive to the inside) is common and it's a judgment call whether the stewards will apply a penalty for it.

I don't think PD can improve this aspect using a purely algorithmic SR system - I suppose they could try and write an AI driving steward - see you in a thousand years for the result

Anyway is there any solution? Well one is defend the inside line - make the driver behind go outside which means you're on the inside and get to choose your line - now if there's contact at the apex it's their penalty. However, the guy behind you might lack imagination and just follow you in and bump you at the apex, but in this case there's a chance they'll get the penalty and not you.

I only say chance - if you are going too slow at the apex and get hit from behind, that is basically brake checking and you'll still get the penalty!

Rules are rules in racing. The key is how you adapt to them. I have been the victim of some aggressive driving, but in no case did the person finish in front of me, nor did I lose safety rating (i'm S). What I usually find is this happens in the beginning of the race, and inevitably the aggressive driver takes themselves off track at some point. They usually end up back in the pack.

I do expect some injustice will be done to me at some point - maybe knocking down my safety rating or losing some points, but hey, this is racing and stuff happens. I'll live with it and move on.

I am also sure things will improve over time, but I do not agree with return to position. Its not realistic and is not racing. In RL racing you have to deal with bad things and this emulates what we see here - even including unfair or bad rules.

The whole "But its not real life rules" arguments are weak and don't translate to GTS because, guess what, its not real life racing, its a virtual online racing. As much as we want a realistic simulator we can't have everything exactly as in real life because there are different sets of consequences and rewards therefore there needs to be different sets of rules. We're not F1 superstars racing for millions of dollars, we're gamers who have paid a lot of money for a game, PS Plus and then for some, hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a wheel and pedals with no monetary reward on the line but only the enjoyment of the game. When that enjoyment is taken away because the SR system is not working as we were told it would and because of disrespectful players exploiting it then yes, people will leave the game. Like I said, we're not racing for money, we've already paid money and PD are the ones making money so they need to assure the majority of their player base is satisfied with the product if they want to continue making money, because judging by these and other forums, the majority are not satisfied. Your experience with this game does not mean everyone else's is the same, that's ignorant to assume. The example you gave of what happens when you play the game is not what people are complaining about, that isn't something to really complain about if there is no consequence from other's dirty driving, what people are complaining about is in their case there are consequences for other's dirty driving and their experience is much different to yours for many reasons. The most obvious in your example is that the dirty driver takes themselves out and your SR or position is not negatively affected whereas the majority of people are experiencing the opposite. You've just been lucky, a minority of people will be lucky in a game like this.

Also the arguments that something suggested as a solution is not realistic and is not racing shows a complete lack of understanding the issues discussed and it shows you believe magical ghosting and indestructible cars are a more realistic and acceptable solution than something that could actually be implemented in the real world with today's technology, ie: automated slow downs on impact or corner cutting. Once again, this is a game, its meant to have elements of realism but at the end of the day it is supposed to be fun and a very large part of making racing games fun comes from also making it fair. We do not need to just put up with unfair or bad rules when PD can easily make changes to make fair and good rules for their paying customers. If you want to compare to real racing again, the incidents we are talking about would have a driver immediately disqualified or completely ruin their car to the point of not being able to finish the race or even writing the car off, where's the realism there? Do drivers in F1 take the inside and use the other driver as their brake when they know they'd hit them with enough force to wreck either car? No, because not even half the field would be able to continue past the first lap. Do the drivers in front move out of the way because the driver behind is trying to ram them off the track every corner? No, because the driver behind would have already been disqualified the first time they tried it.

The solution would be to 1) bring back 24 player races and groups them closer by qualifying time and DR, currently with less players on the track the dirty drivers can get away with a few nudges and punts per lap because they can make up for it with clean sectors once they've overtaken and are catching up to the next bunch of racers that are far ahead. If the races were closer due to players being more equal in driving skill, qualifying times and due to 24 drivers, these dirty drivers would have more opportunities to ram and use dirty tactics so they would take them as that's what they do. This would mean more incidents to lower their SR and less clean sectors to make up for it, eventually their SR would drop, the system would go back to the way it was when the game started with 24 player races and the trash would take itself out.

I honestly had the best races from SR C upwards when it was 24 player races, now the number of drivers on the track has dropped I'm getting rammed and nudged off the track way more and my Sr is S. I've even tried it myself, had a shocker of a race where I've exploited this fault by driving dirty just to prove my point and still able to increase my SR at the end of the race. That's why everyone is Sr A and S, the system is flawed and needs to be changed or its pointless, only the absolute cleanest drivers should be allowed an SR of A or S. Its not a high score for people to aim to achieve, its a system to put like minded and skilled drivers together and currently its not doing what it is supposed to do. Once PD go back to 24 player races and group people by closer DR and closer qualifying time, this issue will be fixed like it was in the beginning.

2) collisions need to be punished more severely, a greater drop in SR. Currently it is very easy to get away with dirty tactics in S races which should not happen at all, accidents once every now and then, yes. Intentional bumping to use another driver as your brake so you knock them off the track and they get a 12 second penalty instead of you, the offender, and improve your position every chance you can (which you can get away with a few times a race in SR S), no. It should be incredibly hard to achieve and also hold an SR of A or S and only the cleanest drivers should be in those classes. If these threads full of incidents were only happening in SR B and below then no one would have the right to complain, it would mean the SR is working, but when it still happens constantly in SR S then the system is broken and needs fixing.

3) This one isn't perfect but will solve 80% of the issues with people using the racer ahead as their brake as this seems to be the number 1 complaint: on a straight, both parties are at fault if one is rear ended. On a turn in the track, the car behind is at fault if they hit the side of the car ahead at least, this is the major tactic used by dirty drivers to overtake when close, hitting the back could still lead to brake checking exploits but that should be penalised quite severely to prevent either doing so just like on the straight. It would need to be a zone that is into the turn so it can't be exploited by brake checking but enough that if a car hits the side from behind it is because it is obviously travelling too fast for that corner. Anyone who has raced in real life will know that they are always told it is up to the car behind to make sure they can overtake safely and cleanly. Using the car ahead as your brake and taking the inside when you know the car ahead can't see you and is following the racing line is not fair, clean or safe racing, its exploiting the system. If you're that much faster than the car ahead then you shouldn't have any trouble waiting and finding the right spot to overtake. You can't have the same awareness of what's behind you in this game as you can in real life, nowhere near. The person behind clearly knows where you are though, they're watching you to find a chance to overtake remember. No this isn't F1 rules but once again we're not racing even close to real F1. As much as there are powerful cars in the game the drivers are very amateur and amateur rules state that the person behind must ensure they overtake safely as they have the better field of view.

4) Have more races with a higher number of laps. These 3 - 5 lap races only encourage the "I need to do anything to overtake because the race is nearly over" mentality. There's much less of this in the 10 lap races, although still too prevalent but the above solutions would also fix this. Still have the lower lap races for those that don't want a longer race but there should be more than 3 races to choose from. There should be 9 and they should change after a few days rather than daily. Having a track up for only one day also compounds the issue because people don't have enough time to fully get to know the track and other drivers behaviour on that track.

I view bumper-car-drivers as simply another driving challenge that, by overcoming, will improve my skills.. I also find the game much more enjoyable if I don't take it so seriously...and/or personally

Once again, not about taking it personally or seriously but when a lot of people have forked out a lot of money (a lot of money for them can be any amount depending on their financial situation) on the game, PS Plus and peripherals to play a game that is not working the way it was marketed and sold to them then they have the right to be annoyed and suggest solutions for PD to take on board, assuming PD are actually reading these boards like any smart game producer would lol.

Dont know if anyone brought this up , but its pretty simple in my opinion that is , to avoid people getting mixed up with , sorry for the word , but , idiot drivers - they can not just let people see 2 videos about sportsmanship and then just think that people have learned what sportmansship is after that and just let them join all the fair and clean people , it's simply too ridiculous in my opinion I was speechless when I found out that there were no more you should do other than watch 2 videos , I must admit I had hoped for more regarding sportmansship ...
Just so there isnt anything to misunderstand , it should be for everybody new to GT Sport to "qualify" somehow , instead of just watching 2 videoes (most people probaly havent seen them , just turned them on and done something else untill they were done)

Some sort of qualification would do nothing, the changes need to be in game and constant. A "Qualification" would simply be like a mission or challenge to complete then they could revert to their crappy behaviour without consequence when in Sport mode.

Let's revisit this topic in a month or two, but here is my belief:

The hard truth is that if you have a SR of D, or C, or S, you are placed where you belong. You need to use the mirrors, use the radar, and not expect cars around you at low SR to do the rational things. Having a high SR is not just about driving cleanly, it's about having excellent situational awareness over a long period of time.

So many of these rant/complainer threads are from people who expect every single opponent to drive the ideal line, to not make errors, and to not miss braking points. That's not really embracing reality. Motorsport at a grassroots level in real life is a ******** too. You have to drive defensively if you want higher SR over the long run.

I agree with you if people are complaining about this happening in SR B or below races but it should be absolute rare cases in A and S which its not, its almost just as common. Yes the racers in S and A should have great situational awareness but in those classes you also shouldn't have to watch your back every corner because you know the guy behind you is going to try follow you regardless of where you are on the turn because he wants to use you as his brake to advance his position, just like he did the last 5 corners he tried it on you. That's not why the majority of us bought this game, there's other racers we could've stuck to if that were the case. We bought a racing game with less tracks, less cars and limited content all round because we were told it would make up for it with amazing online play. A broken Sr system (the most important part of online play) is not what we would call amazing online play or even covering the shortfall of the rest of the game.

I am probably not going to make a lot of friends with this but i feel i need to say this.
As i see things right now we have three distinct groups of Players:
1st and probably smallest group consists of the guys that take delight in ruining everyone's game, the bangers and dive bombers, guys that in the words of Alfred J. Pennyworth 'just want to see the world burn'
The second group is the A listers, the Aliens, the super fast and sometimes Elitists Players, the ones that object to being on the same track as people that drive with a pad, or can't run a lap 10 seconds faster than the rest of the planet, the ones that by all accounts have never made a mistake or miscalculated a braking point.
And then there is the group that i am in, the largest group, the one that is not very fast, but try's to do their best not to shunt anyone off, that try to do their best to run a clean race but that also sometimes make mistakes. For a lot of us this is our first real experience with e-sports and truly competitive online racing.
The game is out barely three weeks and already you guys are doing nothing but raging and quitting, just give PD a chance to work out the wrinkles, maybe you could show us great unwashed masses some understanding and patience, i am pretty sure that none of you were born racing Gods.
I understand that you get frustrated but jeez guys it's a GAME, I'm old enough to have learned that life is full of Bull***t, we do not have to carry all that over into something that at the end of the day is supposed to be FUN.

You're missing the group that most of these threads are about, the people that are exploiting the broken SR system and not ramming and trying to have a demolition derby but the racers that are strategically nudging people off the track and racing dirty to advance their position, using moves that would either wreck their car or have them disqualified in real racing but exploiting the broken SR and penalty system. The group you you say you're in is actually 50% these guys, you just think most of them are accidents because you're new to racing games and can't spot the difference between and accidental and a strategic hit, or you're stuck in a low SR and DR and don't get to see these drivers in your races. Yes this isn't real life but the SR system is supposed to make it fair for those that want to drive fairly by grouping the fair with each other and the dirty with each other. Currently the dirty and fair are being grouped together which means the system needs fixing. I don't get mad if someone is new like yourself and its an obvious accident, what's annoying is when people in SR S are purposely using dirty tactics as they shouldn't even be allowed in S races. PD can easily fix this but they'll need to do it soon because a lot of people will get sick of it and leave like they did with Project Cars.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I'd expect to be able to race anyone in the World on-line.... although winning is another story all together... you can be a second or so slower, but still keep up using the draft!

The game has only been out 3 weeks tomorrow (so 20 days).

The vast majority of drivers have not found their correct DR yet.

Using myself as an example... due to a vacation, I didn't start playing the game until 9 days after release. I spent the 1st 2.5 days golding the license tests, missions and track tests, never touching on-line. To date, I've still only had 17 races on line. I'm currently SRS, and about half way to DRA. I would expect to get to DRA in the future as I run more races... but playing time is limited for me, so it might take me another few weeks to get there.

Plus I will only enter a race if I feel I've put a proper effort in to qualifying (ie; an hour or so)... so if I have a couple of hours free after work, I might only get one 10 lap grp3 race completed.

Someone matched against me in a race may have run 50+ races, also be SRS DRB, but have reached their natural level.

They will look at my qualifying time (where I have spent an hour, and they have spent <10 minutes), and think 'why am I matched against someone 5s quicker than me?'... and this example rings true at every level/combination of matching.

IN addition, I think the time you play has a big effect on who you're matched with - play at peak time (say 18.00-21.00 GMT, outside work/school hours) and many more people are playing. So the likelihood of getting matched against the same rank is higher. And the number of DRA drivers remains tiny at this stage, so highly likley they'll will get dropped in a B race. Play outside peak times, and you'll get less of a driver pool to match from.

It is going to take time for the game to settle people in their natural speed rankings.

Have some patience.

I do not disagree with most of the points that you make.
What I mainly question is the current lack of the apparent use of DR ratings within a daily or even series racing lobbies selection choices.

I as most gamers play a game with the intent of improving and moving higher within the games available classes or playing levels for the feeling of accomplishment and advancement.

Each level or class that as you compete or play in the challenge to be at the top of that level becomes more common and easier and winning at the lower level gets to where it is no longer a challenge for the most part.

Hence the reason to move up to the next class with harder and tougher competition that generally you are back near the bottom in that class and to start coming in with winning and finishing within the top players of that classes ranking means to improve your skill set to again lessen the challenge of each competition and then once again finishing among the top in that class you rinse and repeat and go to the next highest class to start the move to the top all over again.

GTS gives no recognition for players within the different class structures for their achievements within a race unless they are the overall race winner which by law of averages will always go to the A level drivers that have much better skills than a say C or D class driver who actually realistically has absolutely no chance to win at all with the current system for filling a race lobbies grid.

Where is the incentive for a driver to improve as far as the game is concerned or his class rating because unless he is a top rated driver then what or how he is ranked will never make any difference, a D rated driver will never win a race when the best grid position because of his skills puts him at best 10th on the grid and even a really good race he may hope for a 6th place finish beating several C rated and maybe even a B rated driver or so that messed up and went off track.

Even then the best he can have is personal satisfaction because his in game challenges for race wins, pole positions and fast laps will remain empty as the A drivers get their fill of winning against over half a field that offers them no competition from even before the green flag drops while the grid fillers have to relish in only their personal satisfaction.

Either the grids need to be separated by class or the awards such as wins, poles and fast laps within a race need or should be awarded within each individual class racing within the overall race . Even real motorsports which have different class of racers award overall and class wins on a separate basis.
If you want to keep people wanting to advance you need to reward the improvements they have made as they get better, if there is no reward but being at the very top the normal people will tire of being grid fodder with no rewards in time.

 

[Stotty]

I do not disagree with most of the points that you make.
What I mainly question is the current lack of the apparent use of DR ratings within a daily or even series racing lobbies selection choices.

I as most gamers play a game with the intent of improving and moving higher within the games available classes or playing levels for the feeling of accomplishment and advancement.

Each level or class that as you compete or play in the challenge to be at the top of that level becomes more common and easier and winning at the lower level gets to where it is no longer a challenge for the most part.

Hence the reason to move up to the next class with harder and tougher competition that generally you are back near the bottom in that class and to start coming in with winning and finishing within the top players of that classes ranking means to improve your skill set to again lessen the challenge of each competition and then once again finishing among the top in that class you rinse and repeat and go to the next highest class to start the move to the top all over again.

GTS gives no recognition for players within the different class structures for their achievements within a race unless they are the overall race winner which by law of averages will always go to the A level drivers that have much better skills than a say C or D class driver who actually realistically has absolutely no chance to win at all with the current system for filling a race lobbies grid.

Where is the incentive for a driver to improve as far as the game is concerned or his class rating because unless he is a top rated driver then what or how he is ranked will never make any difference, a D rated driver will never win a race when the best grid position because of his skills puts him at best 10th on the grid and even a really good race he may hope for a 6th place finish beating several C rated and maybe even a B rated driver or so that messed up and went off track.

Even then the best he can have is personal satisfaction because his in game challenges for race wins, pole positions and fast laps will remain empty as the A drivers get their fill of winning against over half a field that offers them no competition from even before the green flag drops while the grid fillers have to relish in only their personal satisfaction.

Either the grids need to be separated by class or the awards such as wins, poles and fast laps within a race need or should be awarded within each individual class racing within the overall race . Even real motorsports which have different class of racers award overall and class wins on a separate basis.
If you want to keep people wanting to advance you need to reward the improvements they have made as they get better, if there is no reward but being at the very top the normal people will tire of being grid fodder with no rewards in time.

And yet I almost always get a full grid of SRS DRB when I race on line - though I did have up to 2 DRA drivers in the grp4 combo on occasion Saturday afternoon.

As for the rest of your post, as I said, DR will even out over time. As more people reach DRA, there will be enough of them that you won't see them matched against anything lower than a B at quieter times. Likewise for other classes. Hopefully this will enable you to get more enjoyment out of the experience... for me, I won't expect to win in the top class, but I will expect to have super fast, super clean, super enjoyable races

 

[TheEvstar93]

I've only ever won one daily race. And these 10 second to 20 SECOND penalties for getting hit up the rear really really does my head in.

 

[wdreamsmaycome]

I had an idea of how to try to become SR S to try the cleanest competitions in daily and FIA races. What if I run many daily races not running for the 1st position but intentionally remaining in the last one for the whole race?
I could have all clean races until I get my SR S and then I can go for clean races even from driver level D or E.... And maybe doing it again to SR S if unfortunately I'm downgraded to SR A. What do you think of this tactic? (sorry for my lacking-grammar english)

that is what I did, I was DR B / SR B and could not get out of SR B to save my life due to being punted all the time, I did several clean long races in the back and finally was able to move to SR A (SR S now), unfortunately this tanked my DR to D, but I'd rather try to get my DR up than my SR, as much as there are still some knobs in SRA/SRS it's nowhere near as bad as it is in SRB with all the new drivers coming in that are used to online = destruction derby and every single time there is a turn with a hard braking it's nearly sure you get punted (some races I was in the WHOLE FIELD had a red SR...)

 

[AshenGraey]

From my point of view, I think it all comes down to the players. Granted the ranking and penalty system could be improved but as some have previously posted, this is supposed to be fun. That being said, I think that might mean different things for different people (i.e bangers who just enjoy ruining it for others, some who just wants a clean race with people of the same skill level and those who just want to dust everyone else leaving them 1min. behind if they could). I hope that for the vast majority, that would be fair and clean racing with others who think and feel the same way.

I'm usually within 2-4 seconds of the faster guys and I'd like to believe that I am a clean and fair racer. I make some mistakes and always try to own up to them. Getting a time penalty or a drop in DR or SR rating for dirty racing is not enough. In real life, those moves would probably mean your race is over or you put yourself in a really difficult spot and you have to make up positions. With that thinking, in addition to the penalties, I think it would help to add damages to the cars to where it starts to affect their overall operating conditions. I would think that would deter some people from treating the game like Mario Kart. I've done about 110 dailies in sport mode at this point, I've had some awesome ones, some OK ones but a lot of crappy ones. Out of the 110, I've only quit 1 race (this past weekend at dragon trail). I started out 7th, I got taken out 3 times in the first lap and later got hit with a 10 sec penalty for a contact that happened while I was overtaking the other guy on the inside and he turned on me...at the end of said first lap...I lost it then and rage quit. From my perspective, I was on the inside line since he left the door wide open and I should not have been penalized since the other player turned on me.

All things considered though, I try not to let those moments ruin it for me. While I don't like online playing because I hate dealing with people childish behaviors, I love racing and GTS is literally the only game that I play online (bought PS Plus specifically for that) so I will put up with it...."for now". I figured it would be alright as the game evolves over its lifetime. I enjoy beating the AI just like the next guy but after a while its just boring so having a nice battle with someone else who races clean and fair is totally worth it IMO.

On a side note, I noticed a comment about slower drivers needing to let faster ones pass...I don't agree with that as it depends on the situation. When Lewis and Vettel just recently dropped back on the grid at the Mexican GP, the back markers didn't just let Vettel and Lewis pass...heck Lewis spent almost 15 laps behind Wherlein before he could overtake him...If they are being lapped then yeah, that's another story and they should pull to the side and let them pass. However, if they are racing for positions with the faster drivers trying to make it back up the grid, they should race for it IMO. I have seen that happened on numerous occasions where someone on the front made a mistake or got taken out and they fell way back. I don't just let them pass when they come behind me, I made it so they race me for it. In some cases those were the highlights of my race because those guys tend to be clean and fair as they make their pass. On the other hand, I've had quite a few run ins with those who became extremely impatient with me on the racing line, flashing their lights and such and ultimately rammed me off track just so they can pass....and that's not cool!

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I'd expect to be able to race anyone in the World on-line.... although winning is another story all together... you can be a second or so slower, but still keep up using the draft!

The game has only been out 3 weeks tomorrow (so 20 days).

The vast majority of drivers have not found their correct DR yet.

Using myself as an example... due to a vacation, I didn't start playing the game until 9 days after release. I spent the 1st 2.5 days golding the license tests, missions and track tests, never touching on-line. To date, I've still only had 17 races on line. I'm currently SRS, and about half way to DRA. I would expect to get to DRA in the future as I run more races... but playing time is limited for me, so it might take me another few weeks to get there.

Plus I will only enter a race if I feel I've put a proper effort in to qualifying (ie; an hour or so)... so if I have a couple of hours free after work, I might only get one 10 lap grp3 race completed.

Someone matched against me in a race may have run 50+ races, also be SRS DRB, but have reached their natural level.

They will look at my qualifying time (where I have spent an hour, and they have spent <10 minutes), and think 'why am I matched against someone 5s quicker than me?'... and this example rings true at every level/combination of matching.

IN addition, I think the time you play has a big effect on who you're matched with - play at peak time (say 18.00-21.00 GMT, outside work/school hours) and many more people are playing. So the likelihood of getting matched against the same rank is higher. And the number of DRA drivers remains tiny at this stage, so highly likley they'll will get dropped in a B race. Play outside peak times, and you'll get less of a driver pool to match from.

It is going to take time for the game to settle people in their natural speed rankings.

Have some patience.

My concerns with the ratings and how they affect or are applied have nothing to do at all with whether drivers have actually settled into their "natural speed rankings".

As far as the "time you play" affecting things sure in off hours there will be fewer racers but the qualifying time differences, the mixture of all races with DR rated A, B, C and D rated drivers, where in two instances the majority of the field did not finish the race before time out because of the great disparity of qualifying times that is a direct result of not properly grouping drivers together in the same race lobby well those times were the 6pm, 7pm, 8pm 9pm and 10pm est time on the North American server on Monday Nov 6, 2017.

The 10pm east time frame pretty much incorporates a reasonable prime time across the entire U.S.A. so if being on one of the largest server regions being that of North America in the world and looking at 5 prime time daily 1 hour race times and it is not possible on ANY of those 5 race times to set a starting grid that did not require running DR rated A class racers within the same race on the same starting grid as DR rated D class racers whom the fastest of such were at least 4+ seconds off the A racers qualifying lap time due to "less of a driver pool to match from" then this game has a serious problem concerning a low numbers of players.

Looking at the prime time hours sampled, the same scenario across all of the races examined I would be more inclined to believe that the problem is with the matchmaking model rather than the number of available players of each class available to race across a span of 5 back to back races during prime time in one of the largest markets in the world.

This is not a case of someone sandbagging their Q times but PD grossly mismatching the racing lobbies period!

 

[Deadheadbill]

Ran a single make race this morning and I was the only D in the group there were 4 A's and 4 B's and the rest C's.

I finished last.

 

[ceres2000]

that is what I did, I was DR B / SR B and could not get out of SR B to save my life due to being punted all the time, I did several clean long races in the back and finally was able to move to SR A (SR S now), unfortunately this tanked my DR to D, but I'd rather try to get my DR up than my SR, as much as there are still some knobs in SRA/SRS it's nowhere near as bad as it is in SRB with all the new drivers coming in that are used to online = destruction derby and every single time there is a turn with a hard braking it's nearly sure you get punted (some races I was in the WHOLE FIELD had a red SR...)

I'm new here too. First post. Anyway I spent the first week just ensuring I drove clean and ended at DR D and SR S. Then I gradually started improving on DR and reached DR B. All it took was one dirty racer to drop my SR to A and then for some reason that day I kept getting in races with SR A and SR B. It's gotten so bad I've actually ended up today at SR C and DR D. Now I'm just going to make sure I'm at the tail end of the pack and build up my SR again. I'm not bothered about DR at this point and I'm just going to make sure I get back to SR S. At least I found its much fairer at S even though there are a few bad apples there.

 

[TenderLoins]

With regards to matmaking. I would rather be matched more rigidly by SR, DR, and especially Q time at the expense of a full field.

A ten person closely matched race isn’t going to be less exciting than a 20 person race with a 10-15 sec difference in qualifying times. It will only make it tighter and more fun with an opportunity for more racers to get to the front.

It would also lessen the must pass as soon as possible in every turn mentality a lot of people have simply because they actually have a chance for a decent finish.

 

[evilcd]

Why do we get penalised because someone else has hit you from behind / side???!!! In real life you hit someone in the rear it’s your fault and your insurance premium goes sky high next time. So why in races do you, happily minding our own business, racing cleanly, then WHAM, shunted from behind due to careless driving, knocking you off track, loss of momentum, loss of position and by the way, here have a 10 second penalty to add salt to the wound. Total shambles. Surely it can be programmed that the offender i.e. the car behind is the only one penalised?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

With regards to matmaking. I would rather be matched more rigidly by SR, DR, and especially Q time at the expense of a full field.

A ten person closely matched race isn’t going to be less exciting than a 20 person race with a 10-15 sec difference in qualifying times. It will only make it tighter and more fun with an opportunity for more racers to get to the front.

It would also lessen the must pass as soon as possible in every turn mentality a lot of people have simply because they actually have a chance for a decent finish.

I agree 100%! Then at least if it is a race with all DR D rated racers or a race with all DR C rated racers then someone of that skill level has a chance for their first win, their first pole and fastest lap. (I have already personally gotten a win, fastest lap and pole position so my comments are not from someone that is whining about being deprived!)

My comments and feelings concerning this subject as ALL Racers regardless of skill class should have the same opportunity to experience finishing at or near the top within the racing class that they are placed in by ability rating.

As the way things have been recently the lower class players are just filling grid slots so the faster A class racers can pad their win total challenges while winning against 3/4 or more of a grid that they should never be racing against as there is no competition for an A class racer to race a D class racer.

It is not the A racers or the B racers fault as it is PD that sets the field.

 

[TenderLoins]

I agree 100%! Then at least if it is a race with all DR D rated racers or a race with all DR C rated racers then someone of that skill level has a chance for their first win, their first pole and fastest lap. (I have already personally gotten a win, fastest lap and pole position so my comments are not from someone that is whining about being deprived!)

My comments and feelings concerning this subject as ALL Racers regardless of skill class should have the same opportunity to experience finishing at or near the top within the racing class that they are placed in by ability rating.

As the way things have been recently the lower class players are just filling grid slots so the faster A class racers can pad their win total challenges while winning against 3/4 or more of a grid that they should never be racing against as there is no competition for an A class racer to race a D class racer.

It is not the A racers or the B racers fault as it is PD that sets the field.

It would also limit the likelihood of the aliens having to deal with lapped traffic in non endurance races.

I’ve gotten a couple wins but have yet to get a pole or fastest lap. I’m much better during a race than hot lapping. Patience and consistency.

The most thrilling race I’ve had so far I started last in a field of 20 and finished 10th with a clean bonus. You don’t have to win to have a great race.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

It would also limit the likelihood of the aliens having to deal with lapped traffic in non endurance races.

I’ve gotten a couple wins but have yet to get a pole or fastest lap. I’m much better during a race than hot lapping. Patience and consistency.

The most thrilling race I’ve had so far I started last in a field of 20 and finished 10th with a clean bonus. You don’t have to win to have a great race.

I agree and I have really enjoyed a lot about the game. I think PD has done an awful lot right as well but I do know and understand that for PD to support this game long term, bring added content such as more tracks, cars and events that it will take maintaining a good number of players and continued game sales for PD and Sony to consider it worth the investment to keep sinking money and man hours into GTS.

That is the reason I feel it is so important for the online races to adequately fill the grids with racers with similar lap times and for all classes to feel like they have a chance to actually get a pole, or fastest lap or a win to keep their interest level up and wanting to advance their skills to the next highest class.

As it is right now with the current online matchmaking I am afraid to many of your average racers that may be in D or C class will feel like that under the system currently being employed that they have virtually no chance to feel a victory for their hard work unless they are able to get good enough to be among the top level A class racers and we all know that many of us will never reach that level.

Yes the more hardcore racers will stick around for the competition but the average gamer that does hold some interest will tire of always being mid pack or further back and put the game down as he will not feel rewarded.

Proper matchmaking will eliminate that problem and allow all people playing to feel the rewards and PD along with all racers that really want to see this game remain mainstream long term will be the overall winners.

 

[stevenhiggster]

Kind of surprised so many are having issues. At B/S most of my races are fairly civil.

I try to make myself predictable to avoid too much punting. If I have someone on my bumper I very clearly show when I will defend the inside line. If people are a lot faster I just let them pass to avoid them getting frustrated and ending up being divebombed. Half the time they make a mistake and I get past them later anyway. Or they’ll go too deep and I can undercut them on the inside after the corner.

If someone is obviously going to punt me to get past I usually let them pass, then enjoy passing them as they take themselves out later.

This is despite me rarely qualifying top 3.

I have the same mindset as you. I can usually tell when someone is planning to try a messy pass on me so I just let them go. 9/10 times they'll take themselves out a couple of turns later then you just have to try and get enough distance on them that they can't get near you again.

 

[GTWelsh]

I have the same mindset as you. I can usually tell when someone is planning to try a messy pass on me so I just let them go. 9/10 times they'll take themselves out a couple of turns later then you just have to try and get enough distance on them that they can't get near you again.

People late braking themselves into the first left hander on the demo track is a good example of this. I see them, I brake early and wide to let them through, they spank it into the wall, I crack on without a care in the world lol. If they got through without crashing it gives me a safe way to get on their 6 and maybe even pass them back coming out the chicane due to a less aggressive entry.

However, if I stuck my car up the inside to stop the pass, in real life, no problem. In GT, high chance of a problem. I would still do it on the last lap or something as a last resort, but if it's lap 2 of 10, I'll let them through and get them back

 

[evilcd]

I have the same mindset as you. I can usually tell when someone is planning to try a messy pass on me so I just let them go. 9/10 times they'll take themselves out a couple of turns later then you just have to try and get enough distance on them that they can't get near you again.

Like the saying goes, “slow and steady wins the race”, well in my case helps me finish higher up the field... lol

 

[stevenhiggster]

It would also limit the likelihood of the aliens having to deal with lapped traffic in non endurance races.

I’ve gotten a couple wins but have yet to get a pole or fastest lap. I’m much better during a race than hot lapping. Patience and consistency.

The most thrilling race I’ve had so far I started last in a field of 20 and finished 10th with a clean bonus. You don’t have to win to have a great race.

The problem is that too many gamers are used to winning all the time against AI, so they expect to do the same against human opponents.

I've only won a few races, but some of the best races I've had I've finished mid pack but had brilliant close racing with other clean racers.

 

[GTWelsh]

The problem is that too many gamers are used to winning all the time against AI, so they expect to do the same against human opponents.

I've only won a few races, but some of the best races I've had I've finished mid pack but had brilliant close racing with other clean racers.

My highest scoring race is also one I came 4th in. My last race with my highest to-date DR I qualified pole and won from pole, never overtaken. Got slightly less points than my hard fought 4th! So not only was the 4th epic and intense as ever, it was to-date my best race points-wise, which is mad.

 

[ceres2000]

Spent a good amount of time today starting at the back of the pack and waiting for opportunities for the guys ahead to take them selves out. Managed 5th, 6th and 3rd. Finally took the risk and pushed for a good qualifying and started from pole and ended with a win. I'm thinking a few more days like today and I'll be back at B/S. Sigh. A man can hope.