The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[UKMikey]

That's... something. Quite something. He actually looks like he's been briefly possessed.

Which is an improvement. I've never seen a still image of that person where he's not looking absolutely baffled, like a particularly stupid dog trying to work out what a hedgehog is and why it tastes of pain.

 

[Keef]

@TexRex One also has a right to a trial, and the line between self defense and murder is a tight one, one which requires an entire situation to be judged rather than a glimpse and split second decision. Keep in mind that both a defender and an attacker intend to kill another person - for at least a moment, their decision and action is one in the same. The bodycam video shows a decision and action but shows nothing else. An investigation could reveal the rest.

Ohio’s new stand-your-ground law is absolutely relevant because this happened in Ohio and it’s not entirely clear if Bryant’s reaching with a knife were in defense or an attack. If she were defending then she never would’ve had to leave, and defending with a knife would necessarily mean lunging at an attacker. There are a lot of people out there suggesting she definitely wasn’t defensive because she didn’t run away but that’s not true as of two weeks ago.

 

[TexRex]

Qlown.

One also has a right to a trial, and the line between self defense and murder is a tight one, one which requires an entire situation to be judged rather than a glimpse and split second decision. Keep in mind that both a defender and an attacker intend to kill another person - for at least a moment, their decision and action is one in the same. The bodycam video shows a decision and action but shows nothing else. An investigation could reveal the rest.

Nothing about the action of the officer in this situations jumps out as self-defense. The information available suggests this was action to defend an individual who appeared to be in imminent danger.

Even if Bryant was an intended victim at one point prior to getting a would-be assailant's weapon or a weapon of her own, what's shown in footage is an individual who very much appears to be an aggressor. Orders were given and shots were fired.

With the information presently available, the actions of the officer look justified.

Ohio’s new stand-your-ground law is absolutely relevant because this happened in Ohio and it’s not entirely clear if Bryant’s reaching with a knife were in defense or an attack. If she were defending then she never would’ve had to leave, and defending with a knife would necessarily mean lunging at an attacker. There are a lot of people out there suggesting she definitely wasn’t defensive because she didn’t run away but that’s not true as of two weeks ago.

Bryant being justified in her actions and possibly even shielded from prosecution by a stand-your-ground statute doesn't mean the officer wasn't justified in his. I still don't see how the statute's existence makes it relevant in this instance.

 

[DG_Silva]

I've read that there was a group fight going on and that Bryant was likely trying to defend herself.

Edit: She's the one who called the cops.

I don't see the likelihood of this - if you're trying to defend yourself, you called the cops and you're expecting the cops, why the hell would you not run to the cops when you see or hear them?

 

[Carbonox]

Ohio’s new stand-your-ground law is absolutely relevant because this happened in Ohio and it’s not entirely clear if Bryant’s reaching with a knife were in defense or an attack. If she were defending then she never would’ve had to leave, and defending with a knife would necessarily mean lunging at an attacker. There are a lot of people out there suggesting she definitely wasn’t defensive because she didn’t run away but that’s not true as of two weeks ago.

The body cam footage leaves zero doubt though. The girl that got lunged at was outside of the immediate situation at the start (holding a dog, too, to boot), only abruptly becoming a target after a scuffle left someone else grounded.

If there's a professional seer out there that would've been able to deduce right at that moment that Bryant wasn't actually being the aggressor, I'd like to meet up and ask for next week's lotto numbers too.

 

[TexRex]

I don't see the likelihood of this - if you're trying to defend yourself, you called the cops and you're expecting the cops, why the hell would you not run to the cops when you see or hear them?

I don't think one has much to do with the other. While I don't know what happened between the call and police response, it isn't terribly difficult to imagine a quick series of events in which Bryant both makes the call and is involved in the altercation seen in body cam footage.

Additionally, Reardon doesn't appear to have been rolling a siren upon arrival, and reasonably wouldn't be when responding to a disturbance, so one involved in the altercation that Bryant was at the time of police response may not be aware that police have indeed responded. A siren may not have made the difference either.

I think it's very possible that Bryant was acting either in self-defense or in defense of another with a weapon previously held by another, and appeared to be the aggressor. Barring damning information coming out of investigation, Reardon's actions seem more likely to be regrettable than damnable.

 

[killerjimbag]

I don't think one has much to do with the other. While I don't know what happened between the call and police response, it isn't terribly difficult to imagine a quick series of events in which Bryant both makes the call and is involved in the altercation seen in body cam footage.

Additionally, Reardon doesn't appear to have been rolling a siren upon arrival, and reasonably wouldn't be when responding to a disturbance, so one involved in the altercation that Bryant was at the time of police response may not be aware that police have indeed responded. A siren may not have made the difference either.

I think it's very possible that Bryant was acting either in self-defense or in defense of another with a weapon previously held by another, and appeared to be the aggressor. Barring damning information coming out of investigation, Reardon's actions seem more likely to be regrettable than damnable.

Hold on a second. Clearly the cop pulled up and the girl in pink approached the officer. The girl with the knife attacks another girl pushing her to the ground. Then her guardian "father" proceeds to kick a defenseless "minor" in the head. She then attacks a defenseless girl with a dog in her arms attempting to stab her.You can clearly hear the officer tell her to drop the knife 3 times and to get on the ground numerous times. So how does a grown man who kicked a defenseless girl in the head not stop all this from happening before the cops arrive?

 

[TexRex]

Hold on a second. Clearly the cop pulled up and the girl in pink approached the officer. The girl with the knife attacks another girl pushing her to the ground. Then her guardian "father" proceeds to kick a defenseless "minor" in the head. She then attacks a defenseless girl with a dog in her arms attempting to stab her.You can clearly hear the officer tell her to drop the knife 3 times and to get on the ground numerous times. So how does a grown man who kicked a defenseless girl in the head not stop all this from happening before the cops arrive?

At no point during the twelve seconds between exiting the vehicle and shooting Bryant did Reardon utter the word "knife," much less the command for anyone to drop one.

Reardon: "Hey. Hold on. What's goin' on? Hey, what's goin' on? Hey. Hey! Hey! Hey, get down! Get down! Get down! Get down!

*fires four shots*

You're lying. It's generally a poor move to lie about a sequence of events when there's video and audio of said sequence of events readily available for review, but then you've demonstrated such a propensity for lying and engaging in deceitful tactics in general on this platform that I have to wonder if it's something you don't even think about before doing it.

 

[Keef]

A new angle of the incident from a home security camera across the street suggests that Bryant definitely was not defending herself. She wasn't already engaged in an altercation when the cops showed up. In fact, she wasn't even there when they showed up. She had literally just walked out of the house as they arrived and took action almost immediately. It also has brought up the question of whether or not the dude in the gray outfit brought a knife and handed it to Bryant. Supposedly this video captured even more than this, including a preceding fight, but it's been cut to this length for whatever reason.

 

[TexRex]

Well, that may help to clear up the shooting but it only invites more questions about the situation as a whole.

 

[Keef]

Well, that may help to clear up the shooting but it only invites more questions about the situation as a whole.

For example, who the f is that?! And if this is her mama's house, where is mama?

 

[DG_Silva]

Additionally, Reardon doesn't appear to have been rolling a siren upon arrival, and reasonably wouldn't be when responding to a disturbance, so one involved in the altercation that Bryant was at the time of police response may not be aware that police have indeed responded. A siren may not have made the difference either.

Looking at the video from the security camera across the road, Bryant had a clear sight of the officer when he arrived. Also, after she attacked the first girl, she had more than enough room to run away from the fracas, but instead chose to stand and aggressively pursue another because she was being blocked, by the police officer trying to hold and subdue her, from further attacking the first victim.

I feel that if there was a genuine threat to life, you make enough room between you at your attacker at the first opportunity. I do agree with you that there is a lot we haven't seen, and it would be beneficial to see what happened before the event. I would like to see the rest of the security camera footage though.

 

[TexRex]

Looking at the video from the security camera across the road, Bryant had a clear sight of the officer when he arrived. Also, after she attacked the first girl, she had more than enough room to run away from the fracas, but instead chose to stand and aggressively pursue another because she was being blocked, by the police officer trying to hold and subdue her, from further attacking the first victim.

I feel that if there was a genuine threat to life, you make enough room between you at your attacker at the first opportunity. I do agree with you that there is a lot we haven't seen, and it would be beneficial to see what happened before the event. I would like to see the rest of the security camera footage though.

Yeah, I only had body cam footage from Reardon and the officer who responded after Reardon to go by, and the latter really only captured the shooting itself and subsequent activity.

 

[Joey D]

The shooting of Bryant is a tricky one, but the one I'm more concerned about at the moment is the shooting in North Carolina. Columbus PD did the right thing by releasing footage within hours of the incident and that goes a long way into showing the public they aren't trying to cover anything up.

The North Carolina shooting though is going on day three with no real information other than seven officers are on administrative leave, two quit, and one retired. The city council has petitioned the court, but since it's now Friday night, we won't hear anything until Monday at the earliest. That's not good for maintaining peace in the city since the longer the PD waits, the more suspicious people are going to get and the more rumours will start to fly.

Regarding the Bryant shooting though, I feel like the officer was likely acting within the confines of the law. Whether it justifiable or not, I'm not sure, but I do believe he acted the way he'd been trained to act and didn't go into the situation intending to kill anyone. I think it shows a bigger problem with how deadly force is used. Officers need to be trained to not shoot to kill and need to be equipped with less than lethal force. Rubber bullets would've probably solved the conflict and no one would be dead, only injured. Or if officers were training to incapacitate instead of kill, it might be different too since the shots could've been fired at the lower extremities. I'm sure this is easier said than done, but I refuse to believe that nothing can be changed.

 

[UKMikey]

There was another shooting in Hickory, North Carolina on Wednesday night but not by the police. A 7-year-old boy was killed. They have the suspect in custody just in case anyone was wondering where the outrage is.

https://www.wbtv.com/2021/04/23/man-arrested-death-year-old-shot-while-riding-car-with-mother/

I agree that the Elizabeth City shooting by police of Andrew Brown Jr. sounds very suspicious with the large number of cops on leave though. I hope the police department makes some kind of further explanatory statement before things get out of hand.

 

[Tornado]

It certainly looks like the Bryant shooting was about as justified of a shooting as a police shooting can be; perhaps pending something in the fight before the police were called that is almost certainly on tape somewhere. Maybe he could have tased her or something instead, but I'm having a hard time getting around the boycotts and protesting against the police over someone being shot for trying to commit attempted murder twice in front of the police officers that she called in the first place; and I certainly don't think the predictable Twitter response that all police shootings are something officers should be jailed over (Michael Brown was even trending again ) actually helps the conversation anymore than when idiots start carpet bombing "Well, what about White lives, don't they matter?" in response.

 

[HenrySwanson]

There was another shooting in Hickory, North Carolina on Wednesday night but not by the police. A 7-year-old boy was killed. They have the suspect in custody just in case anyone was wondering where the outrage is.

https://www.wbtv.com/2021/04/23/man-arrested-death-year-old-shot-while-riding-car-with-mother/

I agree that the Elizabeth City shooting by police of Andrew Brown Jr. sounds very suspicious with the large number of cops on leave though. I hope the police department makes some kind of further explanatory statement before things get out of hand.

From your article:

Zakylen is the second child to die to gun violence in the Charlotte area.

Just last week, a 7-year-old girl from Gastonia died after being shot in the head. The night before, an 8-month old girl in Shelby was hit in the lung by a stray bullet.

This is insane.

 

[Imari]

Officers need to be trained to not shoot to kill and need to be equipped with less than lethal force. Rubber bullets would've probably solved the conflict and no one would be dead, only injured. Or if officers were training to incapacitate instead of kill, it might be different too since the shots could've been fired at the lower extremities. I'm sure this is easier said than done, but I refuse to believe that nothing can be changed.

Equipped with non-lethal force, maybe. Trained to shoot not to kill, I disagree strongly.

A firearm is potentially lethal even if you're trying to use it to incapacitate. There is no way to reliably use a firearm in such a way as to guarantee injury only, even from the most experienced user. If someone is enough of a threat that you're pointing a firearm at them, you should be prepared to accept the consequence that they may die. If you're not, then you shouldn't be pointing a firearm at them. And if you're prepared to accept their death as a consequence, then you don't hamstring yourself by taking a harder shot than necessary.

A firearm is a weapon of last resort. You use it when you accept that killing your target is a preferable alternative to leaving them alive. When put that way, it becomes more obvious that this should result in firearms very rarely being used. If you want a weapon that has a very low probability of killing the target then a firearm is not even on the table.

To be clear, I'm fine with police using firearms in situations that warrant it. I don't think that anyone should pretend that by pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger they haven't rolled the dice on that person dying. That's what it means to shoot at another human, and it should be taken into account every single time.

It certainly looks like the Bryant shooting was about as justified of a shooting as a police shooting can be; perhaps pending something in the fight before the police were called that is almost certainly on tape somewhere. Maybe he could have tased her or something instead, but I'm having a hard time getting around the boycotts and protesting against the police over someone being shot for trying to commit attempted murder twice in front of the police officers that she called in the first place; and I certainly don't think the predictable Twitter response that all police shootings are something officers should be jailed over (Michael Brown was even trending again ) actually helps the conversation anymore than when idiots start carpet bombing "Well, what about White lives, don't they matter?" in response.

I tend to agree. It may be that when every minutia is picked over the shooting was the wrong call, but I think in the heat of the moment it wasn't unjustified. I think this is the sort of thing where even if it turned out to be technically the wrong choice, the officer should be given the benefit of the doubt in a very fast and fluid situation where he made a decision that was at very least intended to minimise overall harm.

There may be a lot of unjustified police shootings, but I don't think lumping those that are at least somewhat reasonable in there helps the cause. There are situations in which a quick response with a firearm is the right call, and I think it's actually damaging to the movement against police brutality if they can't separate those out and identify them as such.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Breaking: Little idiot woman who rattled off reasons George Floyd didn't deserve justice that had absolutely nothing to do with the circumstances of his death doesn't like that the law enforcement officer whose actions resulted in George Floyd's death is held accountable for those actions.



These right trash pundits, these oozing sacks of ****, have had two narratives prepared to address the outcome of this trial since before it even began. Because Chauvin was held accountable in a court of law, this is the narrative they're peddling. Absolute ****ing garbage.

When you break it down you basically end up with fascist propaganda, amazing.

 

[UKMikey]

On a somewhat lighter note:

 

[Joey D]

Well, the case involving Andrew Brown Jr. is certainly getting interesting. Apparently, the family was shown just 20 seconds of video today and that was with blurred faces and weapons. If the Pasquotank County Sheriff Department wants to avoid being told they're hiding something this is not the right way to go about it. I 100% think they are hiding something and it's likely an unjustified killing of Brown.

According to the family, the video showed Brown sitting in his car holding the steering wheel when the officers started shooting. He then tried to back up after the shooting started, which was met with more gunfire and was ultimately killed.

It's all hearsay though because they don't want to release the video. I have a feeling that the PCSD is about to get Barbara Streisanded big time.

 

[Dotini]

Well, the case involving Andrew Brown Jr. is certainly getting interesting. Apparently, the family was shown just 20 seconds of video today and that was with blurred faces and weapons. If the Pasquotank County Sheriff Department wants to avoid being told they're hiding something this is not the right way to go about it. I 100% think they are hiding something and it's likely an unjustified killing of Brown.

According to the family, the video showed Brown sitting in his car holding the steering wheel when the officers started shooting. He then tried to back up after the shooting started, which was met with more gunfire and was ultimately killed.

It's all hearsay though because they don't want to release the video. I have a feeling that the PCSD is about to get Barbara Streisanded big time.

According to news I heard just now, it takes a court order to release the full video. The judge could make the order as soon as tonight.

 

[Joey D]

According to news I heard just now, it takes a court order to release the full video. The judge could make the order as soon as tonight.

They have a hearing on Wednesday, so that order probably won't come tonight and likely won't be issued until Wednesday afternoon.

But the better question is why did a judge no order it released last week? I get not releasing it hours after the incident due to a multitude of reasons, but waiting a week? Ya, that's a bad look.

 

[Dotini]

They have a hearing on Wednesday, so that order probably won't come tonight and likely won't be issued until Wednesday afternoon.

But the better question is why did a judge no order it released last week? I get not releasing it hours after the incident due to a multitude of reasons, but waiting a week? Ya, that's a bad look.

My understanding is it's the local law they have there regarding body cam video.

Perhaps local laws and police departments should be abrogated and disbanded. Perhaps there should instead be federal law enforced by federal police in every town and city in America. Although that would be somewhat sad to accept, as a practical matter it would be okay with me, since I live in a rich enclave and hardly ever leave home. It's up to the youth to decide what they really want.

 

[NotThePrez]

While I haven't been keeping up as much with the Andrew Brown case as I should, it gives me the feeling that the Sheriffs Department is trying to cover something up. Which is dumb, considering that one of the biggest cases in regards to police violence in the US finished up just over a week ago, so they should know that people are going to be paying much more attention to things like this.

In other news, the DOJ has opened up an investigation into the Louisville Metro Police Department to see if there's a pattern of police misconduct within the organization. I'm personally not expecting too much to come out this, but it could potentially lay the foundation for actual police reform in this country.

 

[Joey D]

My understanding is it's the local law they have there regarding body cam video.

Yes, the law states that a judge needs to sign off on the release of the footage. My question is, why hasn't a judge done that yet. All they're doing is making the public more and more suspicious while dealing with a potential powder keg of peaceful protests turning not peaceful.

 

[Joey D]

The FBI is getting involved now, which further leads me to believe there's more to this story:

FBI opens civil rights investigation into police shooting of Andrew Brown Jr.

Also, given the findings of an independent autopsy, it really further adds to the suspicion.

Pathologist: Black man killed by deputies was shot 5 times

Four arm shots, two of which were grazes, and one very well-placed shot at the base of the skull? It has to be awfully hard to hit someone in the back of the head, who's in a moving car. The whole thing just comes across as Brown was wounded and when the deputies came up on him, one of them put a round into the back of his head. I also have to wonder, where did the other rounds go exactly? They were in a neighborhood and opening fire. If only five struck Brown, where did all the other rounds end up? I have to imagine some neighbors were probably a little surprised to see holes in their walls.

 

[Lain]

Yes, the law states that a judge needs to sign off on the release of the footage. My question is, why hasn't a judge done that yet. All they're doing is making the public more and more suspicious while dealing with a potential powder keg of peaceful protests turning not peaceful.

Well a judge has finally signed off... on NOT releasing the footage:
https://apnews.com/article/andrew-brown-north-carolina-shooting-fb05fa6cef829cebbdfdc6add813e764

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

 

[Joey D]

Well a judge has finally signed off... on NOT releasing the footage:
https://apnews.com/article/andrew-brown-north-carolina-shooting-fb05fa6cef829cebbdfdc6add813e764

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

Do you want people to think you're hiding something? Because this is how you get people to think you're hiding something.

I really hope this doesn't mean the protests are going to turn violent, but I feel like this might be one of the final nails in the coffin for that.

 

[Imari]

Well a judge has finally signed off... on NOT releasing the footage:
https://apnews.com/article/andrew-brown-north-carolina-shooting-fb05fa6cef829cebbdfdc6add813e764

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

Wtf.

I fail to see how it could possible affect the investigation. I could see how it could put some of the police in danger, but only if it shows them killing him illegitimately.

I really hope this doesn't mean the protests are going to turn violent, but I feel like this might be one of the final nails in the coffin for that.

It probably means that they're willing to accept some violent protests, knowing that if they released the video and showed Brown being executed by the police it would be a hundred times worse.