The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[Scaff]

March 2012.

Hey, at least it's more recent than the June 2011 clip of a stupid politician concerned Guam might capsize presented as a whatabout to Louie Gohmert wanting to move the Moon. I call that progress.

And about Civil Wars of which the US unsurprisingly isn't one covered.

I wish people bothered to read the papers they cite, but it's unfortunately rare that they actually do.

 

[TenEightyOne]

On the same day that I saw this on Reddit there was some discussion about the methods of other police forces around the world including Britain. A general hallmark for 'failing to stop' was a calm, measured radio narrative with group decision-making assisting the pursuit and apprehension. Or just the general handling of the situation.

Every country has bad cops and that's a discussion for another thread and day... but the USA does seem to generate a particularly conspicuous number of bad police drivers with a county-level (?) system that puts some really over-excitable asshats in charge of weapons, vehicles and instant jerstiss.

Is that just Internet Bias or is that a feeling that other people have too?

 

[TexRex]

On the same day that I saw this on Reddit there was some discussion about the methods of other police forces around the world including Britain. A general hallmark for 'failing to stop' was a calm, measured radio narrative with group decision-making assisting the pursuit and apprehension. Or just the general handling of the situation.

Every country has bad cops and that's a discussion for another thread and day... but the USA does seem to generate a particularly conspicuous number of bad police drivers with a county-level (?) system that puts some really over-excitable asshats in charge of weapons, vehicles and instant jerstiss.

Is that just Internet Bias or is that a feeling that other people have too?

I've long held that the standards for training and accountability are desperately lacking in the United States, and if I'm honest, I get the sense that some good old boys are just desperate to see some action, which only reinforces the need for training and accountability.

 

[killerjimbag]

You do realise that....

A. Doesn't automatically discredit the information supplied (for that you would need actual data and evidence) and your source clearly says that. Hell, ACLED is open about the challenges of gathering this type of data itself (as all research of this nature should be).

https://acleddata.com/2015/06/09/conflict-data-collection-practices-acled-versus-others/

They have also been totally open and transparent about the methodology they use, even down to regional differences in how it is obtained (which will become relevant in a minute).

https://acleddata.com/acleddatanew/...020/10/ACLED_USA-Methodology_v4-April2021.pdf
https://acleddata.com/acleddatanew/...ds/2021/02/ACLED_US-Coverage-FAQs_Mar2021.pdf

As we as detailing its overall methodology.

https://acleddata.com/resources/methodology/#1603123549763-25e30632-a747

I trust that your source in the other thread, FEE, provide equally open and transparent details of how it gathers its information and carries out it's analysis of it? I can wait for you to dig them out.

B. It's a decade old, so not exactly an up to data critique, given that it doesn't match ACLED's current methodologies!

C. And most damningly, not even relevant, as it limits it's research scope to civil wars, which is mentioned in the abstract and covered in detail in the full text of that paper. Which, hilariously is now the second time in two days a conservative member of GTP has tried a 'gotcha' on me without bothering to read the full text of a paper/speech they have cited and it's turned out to not support the claim they made. If your going to try and cite a paper, at least read the damn thing first, don't just skim an abstract and assume (inaccurately) from it!

https://www.ecbproject.org/system/f...3-f_CoCo__Eck__final_.111204.release_vers.pdf

If that's your best try, then it's a swing and a very big miss.

Who funds these people? The US Defence Department ! Well now isn't that interesting.

 

[TexRex]

"BLACKROCK!!!"

 

[killerjimbag]

"BLACKROCK!!!"

Yeah read up on them lately ? Who is buying up real-estate in the US for rentals ?
Who has an investment fund in China ?
Watch in the next months and don't say I didn't tell you so 6 months ago.

 

[Scaff]

Who funds these people? The US Defence Department ! Well now isn't that interesting.

Are you trying to be deliberately misleading?

"ACLED TEAM
ACLED is associated with the International Peace Research Institute* and has received funding from the World Bank, the U.S. Department of Defense through the CCAPS program, and the European Research Council."
https://www.strausscenter.org/ccaps-research-areas/armed-conflict/#:~:text=ACLED is associated with the,Raleigh (University of Sussex).

So no it's not funded just by the DoD in the US, and not even funded directly by the DoD either, but via the CCAPS program, which is (and I quote)

"CCAPS is funded by the U.S. Department of Defense's Minerva Initiative, a university-based, social science research program focused on areas of strategic importance to national security policy."
https://www.strausscenter.org/ccaps/#:~:text=CCAPS analyzes how climate change,importance to national security policy.

Which makes it at least two steps removed from the DoD and oddly enough the World Bank and European Research Council have nothing at all to do with the DoD!

None of which changes the intrinsic fact that even if it was directly and only funded by the DoD it wouldn't be a rebutal to it's data at all. Well unless you think it's a big conspiracy by the DoD to undermine the US by making BLM look like a predominantly non-violent group focused on an end to police brutality and the militarization of the police (which would be odd as the DoD keeps giving its military hardware to the damn police). Oh wait, is that what you actually think is going on (in which case see my final point in this post)!


*Who also have bugger all to do with the DoD
https://www.sipri.org/about/organization/board

Yeah read up on them lately ? Who is buying up real-estate in the US for rentals ?
Who has an investment fund in China ?
Watch in the next months and don't say I didn't tell you so 6 months ago.

We have a separate thread for conspiracy theories, don't derail this one.

 

[killerjimbag]

Are you trying to be deliberately misleading?

"ACLED TEAM
ACLED is associated with the International Peace Research Institute* and has received funding from the World Bank, the U.S. Department of Defense through the CCAPS program, and the European Research Council."
https://www.strausscenter.org/ccaps-research-areas/armed-conflict/#:~:text=ACLED is associated with the,Raleigh (University of Sussex).

So no it's not funded just by the DoD in the US, and not even funded directly by the DoD either, but via the CCAPS program, which is (and I quote)

"CCAPS is funded by the U.S. Department of Defense's Minerva Initiative, a university-based, social science research program focused on areas of strategic importance to national security policy."
https://www.strausscenter.org/ccaps/#:~:text=CCAPS analyzes how climate change,importance to national security policy.

Which makes it at least two steps removed from the DoD and oddly enough the World Bank and European Research Council have nothing at all to do with the DoD!

None of which changes the intrinsic fact that even if it was directly and only funded by the DoD it wouldn't be a rebutal to it's data at all. Well unless you think it's a big conspiracy by the DoD to undermine the US by making BLM look like a predominantly non-violent group focused on an end to police brutality and the militarization of the police (which would be odd as the DoD keeps giving its military hardware to the damn police). Oh wait, is that what you actually think is going on (in which case see my final point in this post)!


*Who also have bugger all to do with the DoD
https://www.sipri.org/about/organization/board


We have a separate thread for conspiracy theories, don't derail this one.

The Minerva Initiative .
You mean this ?

https://minerva.defense.gov/Research/Funded-Projects/

Here is an interesting one.
https://minerva.defense.gov/Research/Funded-Projects/Article/2463679/hierarchy-and-resilience-in-great-power-politics

Who is the managing service ? Oh these guys.
https://www.arl.army.mil/

 

[TexRex]

Yeah read up on them lately ? Who is buying up real-estate in the US for rentals ?
Who has an investment fund in China ?
Watch in the next months and don't say I didn't tell you so 6 months ago.

 

[Scaff]

The Minerva Initiative .
You mean this ?

https://minerva.defense.gov/Research/Funded-Projects/

Here is an interesting one.
https://minerva.defense.gov/Research/Funded-Projects/Article/2463679/hierarchy-and-resilience-in-great-power-politics

Who is the managing service ? Oh these guys.
https://www.arl.army.mil/

Once again for the cheap seats, the DoD are NOT the only people behind them.

As such your conspiracy nonsense does nothing at all to invalidate the date they have provided.

Nothing, as such attempting to deafen people with the screeching of goalposts being moved isn't going to work.

 

[killerjimbag]

Once again for the cheap seats, the DoD are NOT the only people behind them.

As such your conspiracy nonsense does nothing at all to invalidate the date they have provided.

Nothing, as such attempting to deafen people with the screeching of goalposts being moved isn't going to work.

Go through and tell me who the research is being conducted for. Who do you think the managing service is. Go look yourself . Last time I checked,the Army,Airforce and Navy are part of the DOD. It's the link you posted not mine.

 

[Scaff]

Go through and tell me who the research is being conducted for. Who do you think the managing service is. Go look yourself . Last time I checked,the Army,Airforce and Navy are part of the DOD. It's the link you posted not mine.

And once again, they are not the only people funding it, do the DoD now have the World Bank and EU in their pocket as well?

Actually don't bother, it's an irrelevance. If you wish to dispute or discredit the data, do so factually, with evidence to show it's inaccurate.

However the conspiracy theory nonsense stops now, and as you have already been told, we have a separate thread for that.

 

[McLaren]

Yeah read up on them lately ? Who is buying up real-estate in the US for rentals ?

Sounds like the same thing is apparently happening in Canada? Is Core Development Group Ltd. secretly Blackrock as well?

A Toronto condo developer is buying hundreds of detached houses in Ontario, with the plan of renting them and profiting on the housing crisis ripping across the country.

Core Development Group Ltd. is building a large-scale single-family home rental operation, an unproven business model in Canada, where the market is fragmented and individual investors lease a small number of their own properties for income.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/bus...y-1-billion-worth-of-single-family-houses-in/

 

[killerjimbag]

Sounds like the same thing is apparently happening in Canada? Is Core Development Group Ltd. secretly Blackrock as well?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/bus...y-1-billion-worth-of-single-family-houses-in/

Yeah thanks,they are buying up houses in my hometown. Utter greed and despicable. Mind you they are a speck of sand in the dessert compared to Blackrock.

Toronto Star: ‘It’s wrong on all possible levels’: Critics slam development group buying $1-billion in single-family houses for rentals.
https://www.thestar.com/business/re...lion-in-single-family-houses-for-rentals.html

 

[Danoff]

Yeah thanks,they are buying up houses in my hometown. Utter greed and despicable. Mind you they are a speck of sand in the dessert compared to Blackrock.

When you say Blackrock I think Fidelity. It's not exactly the right analogy, because Blackrock is probably more like Vanguard in the financial industry. But Fidelity makes me giggle harder, because it's just that much sillier that if politicians have done business with Fidelity they're somehow controlled by them.

I heard there was a US senator with a Wells Fargo account... uh oh... Wells Fargo is gonna take over the world!!!

Seriously, the Blackrock thing is silly.

 

[killerjimbag]

When you say Blackrock I think Fidelity. It's not exactly the right analogy, because Blackrock is probably more like Vanguard in the financial industry. But Fidelity makes me giggle harder, because it's just that much sillier that if politicians have done business with Fidelity they're somehow controlled by them.

I heard there was a US senator with a Wells Fargo account... uh oh... Wells Fargo is gonna take over the world!!!

Seriously, the Blackrock thing is silly.

Uhm I'll end this in this thread with one last comment. Look who is on Bidens team. Read up and tell me it's silly. Watch the machine start to roll.
https://www.businessinsider.com/what-to-know-about-blackrock-larry-fink-biden-cabinet-facts-2020-12

 

[Danoff]

Uhm I'll end this in this thread with one last comment. Look who is on Bidens team. Read up and tell me it's silly. Watch the machine start to roll.
https://www.businessinsider.com/what-to-know-about-blackrock-larry-fink-biden-cabinet-facts-2020-12

What? A financial person hired into a government financial position? No way.

 

[UKMikey]

What? A financial person hired into a government financial position? No way.

Shhhh... he's leaving.

 

[Imari]

Sounds like the same thing is apparently happening in Canada? Is Core Development Group Ltd. secretly Blackrock as well?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/bus...y-1-billion-worth-of-single-family-houses-in/

Well, I guess it was only a matter of time before someone figured out that there was a business model there. One with pretty staggering monopoly potential too, once you get started it's gonna be real easy to price everyone else out of the game.

I feel sorry for any ordinary people might want to buy a house to like, live in.

 

[JKgo]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57532258

This article popped up in my BBC feed. It's about all of Portland's riot cops resigning from their posts (but will still keep doing their regular police duties) after one of their own was indicted of 4th degree assault of a protester.

What caught my eye was this bit from Daryl Turner, the former police association president, written last year October:

Our RRT members do not volunteer to have Molotov cocktails, fireworks, explosives, rocks, bottles, urine, faeces and other dangerous objects thrown at them

RRT stands for Rapid Response Team, btw.

That statement sounded really odd to me, since these members had volunteered to become riot police. And by definition, you'd expect to see all those things potentially get hurled at you during riots. So... uhm, what were they expecting to be met with during riots? Fluffy kittens and air kisses?

 

[UKMikey]

 

[TexRex]

****in' A right.

 

[Joey D]

Imagine being convicted of homicide and getting a shorter sentence than a drug dealer. If you're convicted of homicide, your options should be life with the possibility for parole or life without parole. 22.5 years is nothing since he'll likely be out in less than 10, all while being in the "special" wing of the prison without being tossed into the general population.

 

[McLaren]

View attachment 1062566

So, how quickly before right wing talking heads take to Twitter and try to present Chauvin like they’ve been doing Ashli Babbitt recently?

 

[GranTurNismo]

Imagine being convicted of homicide and getting a shorter sentence than a drug dealer. If you're convicted of homicide, your options should be life with the possibility for parole or life without parole. 22.5 years is nothing since he'll likely be out in less than 10, all while being in the "special" wing of the prison without being tossed into the general population.

Forget about drug dealers. There are some people in prison for more than 22.5 for simply possession of drugs. Possession of weed, even.

 

[Northstar]

22.5 years is nothing since he'll likely be out in less than 10,

In Minnesota you serve at least 2/3 of your sentence on felony charges, so 15 is the minimum.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/06/26/how-much-time-will-derek-chauvin-actually-spend-in-prison/

 

[Joey D]

In Minnesota you serve at least 2/3 of your sentence on felony charges, so 15 is the minimum.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/06/26/how-much-time-will-derek-chauvin-actually-spend-in-prison/

Well, that's at least good news. While a minimum of 15 years isn't much for killing someone, it's better than it is in other states where people can walk after serving less than half their sentence.

 

[Keef]

In Minnesota you serve at least 2/3 of your sentence on felony charges, so 15 is the minimum.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/06/26/how-much-time-will-derek-chauvin-actually-spend-in-prison/

15 years of getting his ass beat by every black guy in the block. The real justice is about to be served. He’ll have to join the skinheads for protection…oh wait, he already was.

 

[buickgnx88]

15 years of getting his ass beat by every black guy in the block. The real justice is about to be served. He’ll have to join the skinheads for protection…oh wait, he already was.

Won't happen, they will keep him in solitary the entire time "for his protection".

 

[Liquid]

Won't happen, they will keep him in solitary the entire time "for his protection".

And that always works.

Edit: As a comparison from the 22 years given to Derek Chauvin, the police officer who killed former Premiership footballer Dalian Atkinson has been given an eight-year sentence for manslaughter (second-degree murder the closest equivalent).

Considering that PC Monk continuously tasered Atkinson for 33 seconds and then kicked him in the head twice, manslaughter and eight years seems rather generous.

He is the first police officer in Great Britain to face a manslaughter charge for over 30 years.