The 2020 George Floyd/BLM/Police Brutality Protests Discussion Thread

[unit-one]

I've not been abusive towards you, nor hateful. That you have taken offence to my view of your posts and how they present you has noting to do with that, and is an issue you need to deal with not me.


I have been civil, I've simply pointed out the large disconnect between how you post (supporting extra-judicial actions by the police and others) and you claim to not support police brutality.

In your very first answer towards me you, without asking for clarification "what do you mean?" for example, started to assume all kinds of stuff

 

[TexRex]

 

[Scaff]

In your very first answer towards me you, without asking for clarification "what do you mean?" for example, started to assume all kinds of ****
View attachment 1094626

View attachment 1094627

You do realise that they are all questions I'm asking you?

So yes, I was asking for clarification!

 

[unit-one]

You do realise that they are all questions I'm asking you?

So yes, I was asking for clarification!

You chose a really strange way of asking by suggesting such provocative answers.

 

[pokemonfan58]

Apparently he knows better how the police should act. Of course he doesn't have police training.
I have already said that you have the right to protest.

What he’s saying is literally just an understanding of how the law works. How many times do we have to clarify this to you? Instead of carefully thinking about what he and everyone is saying you decided to jump in with your divisive partisan response and accuse Scaff of calling you a liar even though he just stated he was just asking questions?

I strongly condemn police brutality and the George Floyd innocent was an absolute failure of how to handle a crime.

EDIT: Just realized that I confused condemn with condone. Sorry about that.

 

[unit-one]

Instead of carefully thinking about what he and everyone is saying you decided to jump in with your divisive partisan response and accuse Scaff of calling you a liar even though he just stated he was just asking questions?

You see? He literally expected that answer from me.

 

[pokemonfan58]

You see? He literally expected that answer from me. View attachment 1094631

Can you please quote the post where Scaff said this where he asked about the solution?

 

[unit-one]

Can you please quote the post where Scaff said this where he asked about the solution?

link

 

[Scaff]

You chose a really strange way of asking by suggesting such provocative answers.

You see? He literally expected that answer from me. View attachment 1094631

No. I asked you questions, and you repeatedly doubled down on your answers.

You know, like this

As for Floyd... he would have died anyways without the police help. He had foam around his mouth and was screaming of breathing problems way before being pinned down. I don't have any sympathy towards him. A criminal buried in a golden casket and cities got burned... disgusting.

A murder you hand waved away as a mistake

I'm not justifying his murder. It was the police mistake.

Oh and as it was quoted without full context and you attempted to wriggle of it earlier, this one.

I think the police got really restricted on how they can handle suspects. They have to ask people a million times first and if the suspect refuses to comply, they put their hands on them. And if they hold him too hard, then it's police brutality. I kinda miss the nightsticks after watching some videos.

In which you start by complaining that police are restricted in what they can do when handling suspects, and then move to missing when they had nightsticks. Its an argument to allow the police to escalate conflicts rather than de-escalate them. If your intention here wasn't to support the police being able to freely use force then you worded it so poorly as to get the meaning utterly wrong.

Now here's the thing, if that was an isolated incident then I could understand it, but its not. You have consistently 'othered' victims of police violence and brutality, using dehumanising terms and have called for 'liquidating dangerous criminals', it's a pattern of posting and a clear worldview that is imposable to ignore.

 

[pokemonfan58]

link

You know I could literally use @ToyGTone ‘s posts quoted by Scaff in that link as an example of how you could’ve responded to Scaff instead of accusing him. The more I think about this, the more I think maybe you really do support police brutality.

I suggest perhaps you take a break from posting on this thread before you make things worse for yourself. It really amazes me how you’ve been spouting bs at @Scaff for months when he’s already explained this.

 

[unit-one]

No. I asked you questions, and you repeatedly doubled down on your answers.

You know, like this



A murder you hand waved away as a mistake



Oh and as it was quoted without full context and you attempted to wriggle of it earlier, this one.



In which you start by complaining that police are restricted in what they can do when handling suspects, and then move to missing when they had nightsticks. Its an argument to allow the police to escalate conflicts rather than de-escalate them. If your intention here wasn't to support the police being able to freely use force then you worded it so poorly as to get the meaning utterly wrong.

Now here's the thing, if that was an isolated incident then I could understand it, but its not. You have consistently 'othered' victims of police violence and brutality, using dehumanising terms and have called for 'liquidating dangerous criminals', it's a pattern of posting and a clear worldview that is imposable to ignore.

I already explained everything. About the nightstick, about dangerous criminals. In no way or form do I support misconducts. Police have to have means to catch suspects of all kinds and defend themselves and others during their job. When you say that police should use proportionate force it's fine, when I say this, then I support police brutality. Logic. 👍

I wish I knew English better, maybe this argument would have been over much sooner.

 

[Danoff]

In no way or form do I support misconducts

That's not entirely true is it?

As for Floyd... he would have died anyways without the police help. He had foam around his mouth and was screaming of breathing problems way before being pinned down. I don't have any sympathy towards him. A criminal buried in a golden casket and cities got burned... disgusting.

I mean, that is supportive of grave police misconduct. Even calling it a mistake, or handwaving that he was about to drop dead of natural causes anyway, is supportive of police misconduct. I don't think you can reasonably hold both of these contradictory views.

The police treatment of George Floyd was profound police misconduct. And since you don't support that, you should probably not mince words on that point.

 

[TexRex]

As for Floyd... he would have died anyways without the police help. He had foam around his mouth and was screaming of breathing problems way before being pinned down. I don't have any sympathy towards him. A criminal buried in a golden casket and cities got burned... disgusting.

Wait...what? Eighth Amendment jurisprudence holds that law enforcement has a duty to render medical aid to individuals in their custody. It's an extension of the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment (because criminals actually do have rights, whether or not you approve) not limited to individuals who have been charged for and convicted of crimes for which they are serving out their punishment.

What this means varies from state to state, but in Floyd's case it was disregarded wholesale. Respiratory distress is undoubtedly going to be exacerbated by the individual in distress being pinned by a knee on the neck, as affirmed by medical examiner testimony during Chauvin's trial.

I think the police got really restricted on how they can handle suspects. They have to ask people a million times first and if the suspect refuses to comply, they put their hands on them. And if they hold him too hard, then it's police brutality. I kinda miss the nightsticks after watching some videos.

This sort of hyperbolic strawman is bizarre, and yet it's crazy common on the fascist-forward extreme right with people using it in their opposition to calls for law enforcement officers (state actors constrained by the Bill of Rights) to be held accountable for abusing the rights of those whose rights they're expected to protect. Laws exist to protect rights, ostensibly, and enforcing those laws is a means to protect them.

 

[GranTurNismo]

PizzaGaetz to offer Kyle Rittenhouse an internship at his congressional office if he is acquitted:

Matt Gaetz Wants To Hire Kyle Rittenhouse as a Congressional Intern

The Florida congressman wants to reach out to 18-year-old to see if he'd be "interested in helping the country in additional ways" if acquitted.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Scaff]

I already explained everything. About the nightstick, about dangerous criminals. In no way or form do I support misconducts. Police have to have means to catch suspects of all kinds and defend themselves and others during their job. When you say that police should use proportionate force it's fine, when I say this, then I support police brutality. Logic. 👍

I wish I knew English better, maybe this argument would have been over much sooner.

You've not called for proportionate force, you've used dehumanising language and you've hand waved away clear and unambiguous examples of police brutality.

Do you not see why that may lead people to hold the view that you support it?

Just one example was your repeated attempts to blame Floyd for his own death, while repeatedly dehumanising him.

It's also not helped by your refusal to even accept how many of your posts come across.

 

[pokemonfan58]

I already explained everything. About the nightstick, about dangerous criminals. In no way or form do I support misconducts. Police have to have means to catch suspects of all kinds and defend themselves and others during their job. When you say that police should use proportionate force it's fine, when I say this, then I support police brutality. Logic. 👍

I wish I knew English better, maybe this argument would have been over much sooner.

On top of improving your English, maybe take @TexRex ‘s advice and read the 8th Amendment please.

 

[McLaren]

If I read statistics and the history of people involved, analyzing the situation, trying to learn and understand, does that make me a supporter of extra-judicial violence and police brutality? By your logic, yes.

Because your "logic" is defined by ignoring information (which contradicts the whole "analyzing the situation") that goes against your made-up mind.

Are you a supporter of extra-judicial violence? Well, given the fact you think Rittenhouse shooting people who had criminal backgrounds (despite the fact Rittenhouse had no knowledge of such things) suddenly warrants the shootings, anyone would say yes, you do.

I don't close my eyes on one of the sides of conflict to blindly follow the narrative that you like.

Yes, you do.

I've been called a bootlicker, a pro-fascist and a liar in this thread and apparently the offensive and provocative behavior of you and some other people you support is acceptable.

Well, you are a definite liar for one. You've been corrected on misinformation more than once.

You've been reported and you know that.
Others are placed to the ignore list. I don't want to talk to people that don't have respect for others opinion.

I need an echo chamber, but the moderator can't be ignored, so I'll just report him instead.

 

[Joey D]

PizzaGaetz to offer Kyle Rittenhouse an internship at his congressional office if he is acquitted:

Matt Gaetz Wants To Hire Kyle Rittenhouse as a Congressional Intern

The Florida congressman wants to reach out to 18-year-old to see if he'd be "interested in helping the country in additional ways" if acquitted.

www.newsweek.com

Gaetz just wants a wingman for all those 17-year-old girls.

 

[pokemonfan58]

You know isn’t it funny how this guy says he doesn’t want to talk to people who don’t respect others opinions yet still has the audacity to continue talking to Scaff?

 

[McLaren]

You know isn’t it funny how this guy says he doesn’t want to talk to people who don’t respect others opinions yet still has the audacity to continue talking to Scaff?

Because he can still see what Scaff is saying to him, even if he scrolls by, so he can't resist "defending" himself.

 

[pokemonfan58]

Because he can still see what Scaff is saying to him, even if he scrolls by, so he can't resist "defending" himself.

The post Unit linked me to was from earlier this year. March or may I believe and it’s November and this guy still hasn’t stop yet.

Has he ever touched grass yet?

 

[ToyGTone]

You know I could literally use @ToyGTone ‘s posts quoted by Scaff in that link as an example of how you could’ve responded to Scaff instead of accusing him. The more I think about this, the more I think maybe you really do support police brutality.

I suggest perhaps you take a break from posting on this thread before you make things worse for yourself. It really amazes me how you’ve been spouting bs at @Scaff for months when he’s already explained this.

Offtopic but man you both confused and scared me for a moment lol. I was wondering why i would be brought up in a discussion like this.

Sorry for going offtopic.

 

[pokemonfan58]

Offtopic but man you both confused and scared me for a moment lol. I was wondering why i would be brought up in a discussion like this.

Sorry for going offtopic.

Its alright. Was trying to get a point across referencing a post quoted by Scaff that you made.

I mean most of the footages, random articlez and photos i seen online are depicting massive fights between groups and such, robbery, law enforcement attacking protesters. That being said, it seems a large portion of them aren't. Sorry for my own ignorance.



Politicians, i dunno the same people who failed to deal with the covid 19 and give $600 checks at best.


Huh, i assumed they are way better than this.


I would rather understand the whole situation beforehand and since I'm been proven wrong multiple times here by my ignorance, i rather stay quiet. Not that my opinions matter or anything, especially on the internet.



Sigh

Understood.


I can't comment on most stuff but as someone in Bahrain (and this applies everywhere else such as Oman, Emirate...etc), i would say the "white privilege" applies more to Westerners in General. Of course you aren't wrong at all but generally, someone with European, Australian, NZ or North American passports are usually going to have it better than the locals or "immigrants" from non western countries. Heck this goes along with other issues like nepotism and corruption but that's going off topic.

-----
Anyways, it's nice that you explained to me in a civil way shall i say. I want to apologize for what i have said earlier.

 

[TexRex]

Right-wing pundits demand jury sequestration in Rittenhouse trial. People have lost their ****ing minds. This is OJ Simpson trial levels of investment.

 

[Imari]

PizzaGaetz to offer Kyle Rittenhouse an internship at his congressional office if he is acquitted:

Matt Gaetz Wants To Hire Kyle Rittenhouse as a Congressional Intern

The Florida congressman wants to reach out to 18-year-old to see if he'd be "interested in helping the country in additional ways" if acquitted.

www.newsweek.com

Crikey. The guy accused of underage sex wants to hire himself a fresh barely legal boy? I mean, I guess barely legal is still legal. Best of luck Kyle, grip your ankles and think of all the good you're doing for the Constitution.

 

[AZpocalypse]

Also pretty certain that @AZpocalypse is a troll, and a remarkably bad one at that.

I cannot refute this statement, for it is accurate and obvious. 🤡👉👌

More casualties?

So you're advocating for extra judicial killings by armed vigilantes?

You're

Two words

Systemic Racism.

The US justice system is massively biased in many, many ways, particularly if you are black.

Report to the United Nations on Racial Disparities in the U.S. Criminal Justice System – The Sentencing Project

Report to the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia, and Related Intolerance

www.sentencingproject.org

That source cuts right to the fact that for some reason, black citizens are arrested more often than white citizens by a SIGNIFICANT margin. However, that source judiciously avoids mentioning that black citizens are commiting a disproportionately large amount of crime compared to other races. I personally think that being raised by single mothers and

I don't know how well verified any of that is. It sounds to me like it's Kyle's story. At least one person here (@Chrunch Houston) indicated that there was no evidence but a blurry picture, so I don't know how you could have concluded that all of the above is what happened from a blurry picture.

Regardless...

Even if all of that were true (and I'm quite skeptical, and you have posted no sources), it does not make Kyle's decision a good one. Showing up to a riot with a gun is a good way to get people shot, and that's exactly what happened. And you seem to be happy that it's what happened. I'm glad that you admitted that he created his situation, the next step is to recognize that what he created was terrible, and that he shouldn't have done it - rather than praise him for it.


You should really stop dehumanizing people. It's not constructive, and it's not correct.


You've essentially created a circular argument here. "If you're there, you're an animal and deserve to be shot". You should listen to yourself more carefully.


Complete dehumanization, and a rationalization of violence against random people. Quite disturbing.

Sure. If people (I'll drop the word "group" there since it's not helpful in any fashion), decide to destroy your property or put you in harms way, you do have a right to defend yourself. You should probably not go actively creating that situation though, it's just going to get people shot.

You keep insisting that he should have stayed home, and I'm sure Kyle Rittenhouse would agree with you. Would you also agree that those men should have chosen to ignore him, or at the very LEAST, should NOT have chased and / or attacked the teenager with the rifle? There were several people involved here, and saying the minor should have stayed home is certainly one way this whole situation could have been avoided. But what about the adults in this situation? Would you agree that they too possess agency and free will? What would you say those men should have done differently? 🤔

 

[Scaff]

You're

What?

That source cuts right to the fact that for some reason, black citizens are arrested more often than white citizens by a SIGNIFICANT margin. However, that source judiciously avoids mentioning that black citizens are commiting a disproportionately large amount of crime compared to other races. I personally think that being raised by single mothers and

So single mothers are to blame?

It's structural socio-economic factors at play, combined with a significantly higher rate of arrest, charging, likelihood of incarceration and length of sentence for black people for the same crimes. Fancy taking a guess why that occurs?

You keep insisting that he should have stayed home, and I'm sure Kyle Rittenhouse would agree with you. Would you also agree that those men should have chosen to ignore him, or at the very LEAST, should NOT have chased and / or attacked the teenager with the rifle? There were several people involved here, and saying the minor should have stayed home is certainly one way this whole situation could have been avoided. But what about the adults in this situation? Would you agree that they too possess agency and free will? What would you say those men should have done differently? 🤔

Whataboutism doesn't change the facts regarding Rittenhouse.

When the others get charged and tried that can be discussed, and they should be subject to proportionate application of the law.

Problem is that two of them had their right to that (under the US Consitution) removed, by Rittenhouse!

 

[Danoff]

You keep insisting that he should have stayed home, and I'm sure Kyle Rittenhouse would agree with you. Would you also agree that those men should have chosen to ignore him, or at the very LEAST, should NOT have chased and / or attacked the teenager with the rifle? There were several people involved here, and saying the minor should have stayed home is certainly one way this whole situation could have been avoided. But what about the adults in this situation? Would you agree that they too possess agency and free will? What would you say those men should have done differently? 🤔

Lots. There were so many bad decisions by so many people. It is the kind of cluster you'd expect when you have untrained morons playing captain america with a semi-auto rifle. It's bad enough with just the police, who are actually trained to handle riots (and sometimes drive their cars into protestors). When you have someone who has no idea how to handle that situation, people are going to get shot.

Would you agree that Rittenhouse should have stayed home, and that all he did was put people in danger? What would you say Rittenhouse should have done differently? 🤔

Edit:

If you start making Rosenbaum, or any of the others, out to be some kind of hero that we need more of, expect me to push back on that narrative.

 

[McLaren]

That source cuts right to the fact that for some reason, black citizens are arrested more often than white citizens by a SIGNIFICANT margin. However, that source judiciously avoids mentioning that black citizens are commiting a disproportionately large amount of crime compared to other races.

Are they? According to Unit's DOJ table in the latest year available, white's account for 70% of all crime with a 60.3% majority in the US. Blacks are listed at 26% with a 13.4% population. For further comparison, American Indians committed the same percentage as Asians (2%) despite American Indians only making up 1.3% to the Asian 5.9%.

Perhaps there is more at work here, which is what Scaff is repeatedly bringing up.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Not Guilty!!!