The Earth is Flat?

[Strax]

I find believing in flat Earth easier than believing in humans who actually think the Earth is flat. Which makes no sense, exactly like flat Earth. Though it was a fun read

 

[Dennisch]

Yeah like the mountains close to you are easy to see, but the further away a mountain is in the distance the more it loses its features and blends into the sky.

Go watch the episode of Stephen Hawking's Genius "Where are we". They make a helicopter disappear behind a lake that is a couple of miles wide.

That's also something you can test, with binoculares and someone with a long pole.

 

[WhiteFlight1]

I have personally seen mountains lower than 1000 feet from a distance of 40 miles from the sea level though. Lots of people have.

 

[Famine]

I have personally seen mountains lower than 1000 feet from a distance of 40 miles from the sea level though.

Then at least one of your data points is wrong - they were closer, they were taller, and/or you were higher up. I'll happily head out to the bay tomorrow and take four photographs to show the curvature of the Earth at sea level and the difference even 10 feet of elevation makes.

Also, although not critically defined as such, it's generally accepted that a mountain must have a peak at 2,000ft above sea level or more.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I have personally seen mountains lower than 1000 feet from a distance of 40 miles from the sea level though. Lots of people have.

Which mountains, and where were you standing? Google Maps coords to within a 100-or-so feet will be fine.

 

[WhiteFlight1]

I have double checked, it was a cool day and the visibility was good. There are a lot of ocean and islands here so it's interesting how far away you can actually see them.

 

[TexRex]

That's also something you can test, with binoculares and someone with a long pole.

*raises hand to volunteer*










Sorry.

 

[wfooshee]

Yeah like the mountains close to you are easy to see, but the further away a mountain is in the distance the more it loses its features and blends into the sky.

That's not curvature or lack thereof, it's atmospheric haze.

Air is a phenomenally transparent substance, but miles and miles and miles of whatever dust, water vapor, smoke, and whatever else it's carrying is not.

I have double checked, it was a cool day and the visibility was good. There are a lot of ocean and islands here so it's interesting how far away you can actually see them.

And yet you didn't answer the question. From where, looking at what, from how high off of sea level? Even from inside a house adds miles to the horizon distance.

There are no mountains where I am, Florida's highest point is barely three hundred feet, and I am only a couple of blocks from salt water. Nevertheless, my property is about 20 feet above the water, so me looking out my back window more than doubles the distance to the horizon, compared to standing at the water's edge.

 

[Dennisch]

Then at least one of your data points is wrong - they were closer, they were taller, and/or you were higher up. I'll happily head out to the bay tomorrow and take four photographs to show the curvature of the Earth at sea level and the difference even 10 feet of elevation makes.

Also, although not critically defined as such, it's generally accepted that a mountain must have a peak at 2,000ft above sea level or more.

According to this calculator, being 1.85 (6,1) at sea level, a hill of 274 meters (900 feet) disappears at 64km (40 miles), I haven't been using my math brain for too long, and the days of crunching formulas were done in a hazy mist, so I'll have to use your brain power to say if it's correct or not.

 

[wfooshee]

According to this calculator, being 1.85 (6,1) at sea level, a hill of 274 meters (900 feet) disappears at 64km (40 miles), I haven't been using my math brain for too long, and the days of crunching formulas were done in a hazy mist, so I'll have to use your brain power to say if it's correct or not.

And standing on a rock only 2 feet high adds over 20 feet of height to what you see at that distance, i.e. 890 foot object vs. 912 feet. Thus our question for WhiteFlight... Where was he, what did he look at? "Well, it was a cool day and visibility was good!"

 

[WhiteFlight1]

Thats just one example i remembered. The Mountain Jendemsfjellet (beside Hollingen) is 633 m but the foot of it is around 280. i could see the entire thing while standing on the shoreline by Roald.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Thats just one example i remembered. The Mountain Jendemsfjellet (beside Hollingen) is 633 m but the foot of it is around 280. i could see the entire thing while standing on the shoreline by Roald.

I'll leave that @Famine and his mad GIS skills

 

[WhiteFlight1]

It's just fascinating stuff like being able to see the Chicago Skyline from 50 miles away across Lake Michigan.

 

[Dennisch]

It's just fascinating stuff like being able to see the Chicago Skyline from 50 miles away across Lake Michigan.

My ass.

At 80 kilometer, if you're standing at the shore of Lake Michigan, you'd only see the upper parts of Willis Tower. And you'll need a decent pair of sight enhancing goggles.


Edit, the evidence provided by TB shows that my math is a wee bit off. I must find out why.

 

[WhiteFlight1]

just Google it lol, yes you will need a telescope or a high powered zoom lens

 

[TB]

It's just fascinating stuff like being able to see the Chicago Skyline from 50 miles away across Lake Michigan.

Chicago skyline from Michigan City, roughly 50 miles away:

You'll obviously notice that you can only see some of the buildings. The shorter ones are under water. The solution, again, lies in elevation.

 

[WhiteFlight1]

And you can sometimes see more of them. I just find it interesting that you can see anything but the very tip of the Willis Tower.

 

[wfooshee]

@WhiteFlight1 , The peak you're pointing to is about twice the thousand feet height you stated, at over 1900 feet, and it's only 32 miles along that line. About 600 feet of the hill is below the horizon.

 

[WhiteFlight1]

A thousand feet of curvature is 40 miles. If you're six feet tall, the horizon is three miles. So no.

@WhiteFlight1 , The peak you're pointing to is about twice the thousand feet height you stated, at over 1900 feet, and it's only 32 miles along that line.

True, it's shorter than 40 miles, my bad. But i didnt have to use binoculars so obvoiusly i could have seen longer. But the part of the mountain i was talking about should be hidden and it wasn't.

 

[TB]

i could see the entire thing

How do you know you were seeing the base of the mountain?

I've seen Haleakalā on Maui from Hapuna Beach on The Big Island:

Roughly 50 miles (picture is from Mauna Kea Beach, but close enough). In no capacity would I ever think I was able to see the entire 10,023 feet. If there was a boat flashing a light from the coastline, I'd never see it.

 

[WhiteFlight1]

I'm very familiar with that area, if not the shoreline then 99%. I would need a powerful zoom to see details

 

[wfooshee]

True, it's shorter than 40 miles, my bad. But i didnt have to use binoculars so obvoiusly i could have seen longer. But the part of the mountain i was talking about should be hidden and it wasn't.

Sound like you're changing your parameters again. "The part of the mountain?" First I've heard you were only looking at part of it.

Standing with your feet at the water, the horizon will hide 600 feet of elevation at 32 miles.

As for "I could have seen longer," that peak, at that height, would be visible from around 57 miles. Completely hidden at 58 miles.

As for "powerful zoom to see details," that has nothing to do with what the horizon hides; what shows above the horizon, what's hidden beneath the horizon. That is nothing but how high your eyes are, how tall the object is, and how far away it is. "Detail" has nothing to do with it. Don't confuse seeing detail with simple visibility.

 

[WhiteFlight1]

So if let's say you are standing at the beach looking at an apparently empty horizon. Then wouldn't a big zoom help you see boats in the distance?

 

[Sage Ages]

Yeah like the mountains close to you are easy to see, but the further away a mountain is in the distance the more it loses its features and blends into the sky.

Yes, because the real world totally acts like a video game and makes things disappear when they are far away enough. Totally not being hidden by the curvature of the Earth or anything.

 

[wfooshee]

So if let's say you are standing at the beach looking at an apparently empty horizon. Then wouldn't a big zoom help you see boats in the distance?

Not if they're over the horizon. If they're tall, like sailboats, you can see masts and sails farther away than you can see the hull. That observation is what made the Europeans realize the Earth was round; They saw sailing ships disappear from the bottom up as they sailed away.

Depending on your eyesight, a long lens or telescope could help you see a boat almost three miles away that you simply can't make out with your eye. Personally, an object would have to be on the order of a personal float for me not to be able to see it at three miles, but some people don't see that well.

Your question could be extended to, "With a big enough lens, couldn't I see the Sydney Opera House from Roald?" The answer is a resounding NO!"

 

[WhiteFlight1]

So a large ship cannot disappear on the horizon (to the naked normal eye) and then being able to see it when you bring out your telescope?

 

[WhiteFlight1]

Not if they're over the horizon. If they're tall, like sailboats, you can see masts and sails farther away than you can see the hull. That observation is what made the Europeans realize the Earth was round; They saw sailing ships disappear from the bottom up as they sailed away.

Depending on your eyesight, a long lens or telescope could help you see a boat almost three miles away that you simply can't make out with your eye. Personally, an object would have to be on the order of a personal float for me not to be able to see it at three miles, but some people don't see that well.

Your question could be extended to, "With a big enough lens, couldn't I see the Sydney Opera House from Roald?" The answer is a resounding NO!"

That last one we can totally agree on lol

 

[wfooshee]

So a large ship cannot disappear on the horizon (to the naked normal eye) and then being able to see it when you bring out your telescope?

Nope. If it's over the horizon, it's over the horizon. Gone. Hidden. Can't see it.

 

[WhiteFlight1]

Then watch from the 23:12 mark

 

[Corsa]

That is clearly not me. If this topic is upsetting then why the thread for it? If this thread is a joke then I was not in on it. I am not a troll. I am not here to upset people. Sorry if you feel I am but I am not here for trolling.

This thread I put up last year is not a joke. There are thousands worldwide that continue to believe the earth is flat, they refuse science.
My question is, if it's flat where does it end? Some say there's an ice wall, well where is this massive ice wall? Others say yes it's flat but it doesn't end, we're on a disk... well I can walk off a disk right?

They put up pictures and questions like this...

If the earth is round, why is the fire hydrant taller than the telephone poles?

I love the debate, I detest their "evidence"