The Formula 1 calendar development threadFormula 1

[prisonermonkeys]

The whole Santander thing is a PR exercise.

However, the proposal for a race at the Olympic Park appears to be legitimate. For one, it was confirmed as one of four shortlisted bids received by the London Legacy Development Company. And Bernie Ecclestone never commented on it until the LLDC confirmed that they had received a bid. He said that the aspiring organisers had been in contact with him, and that he was willing to support the race if the LLDC approved it. The problem is that people are mistaking the two bids for being the same thing, when they clearly aren't.

The other three bids come from the University of London (or a university in London), and two football clubs, West Ham and Leyton Orient. It's entirely plausible that the university, Grand Prix and a football club proposal could all co-exist.

 

[TheCracker]

Looking at the current Google Maps satellite images of the Olympic Park, i can see potential for a semi-permanent Valencia, Abu-Dhabi, Albert Park or Circuit Gilles Villeneuve style course at the site. It's a little land-locked, and i don't know how old the current Google Maps image is, so i wouldn't like to say just how developed the site already is, but it could throw up an interesting circuit. I'm liking the sound of a section of the track entering and exiting the stadium like they do with rally/rallycross/supermoto at the X-Games - without the ramps, obviously.

 

[homeforsummer]

And having a race around all of these famous landmarks is utterly impossible.

I never said it wasn't.

Instead, I was implying that if a London race doesn't actually take place anywhere recognisably London, then I don't give a toss about it and I'd prefer F1 didn't waste money going there.

A central London GP would be an incredible spectacle. A London GP going around some God-forsaken corner of the East end is just one more GP I'm not bothered about seeing in person.

 

[Ardius]

Yes, the last time Formula 1 tried to go to Donington Park, it was an utter catastrophe and the circuit barely survived. Why can't Formula 1 go back there? Because there is no way the owners of the circuit would want anything to do with it.

I don't agree with that. The reason Donington flopped last time was due to it being one huge bargaining chip for Bernie. He got his dodgy mate to "invest" in Donington with money that never appeared and successfully managed to get Silverstone to not only agree to a rise in hosting fees but also to finally spend the money upgrading the facilities. Of course the publicity of it all probably helped Silverstone also find the investment to carry out the upgrades in the first place too so it goes both ways.

There were suggestions (from the current owners) that they might continue ahead with GP re-design and finish the job. That doesn't sound to me like they don't want anything to do with it.

Certainly though Donington is more focused on making itself financially secure again rather than getting F1 back.
But there is no reason why it couldn't happen with proper investment.

If anywhere is likely to hold a second GP in the UK, its Donington. Nearly all of the other tracks have too many problems with restrictions or simply cannot be upgraded to the necessary spec (or are too small or narrow to begin with) Donington is big enough and has enough land to carry out the necessary upgrades and doesn't suffer from the same noise restrictions as places like Brands Hatch, Croft, Oulton Park, etc do.
The only other possiblity is Rockingham.

Besides, screw F1. I want BTCC and British F3 on the streets again!


I'd much rather see F1 go back to the Adelaide Street circuit than anywhere else in the world! That track was a proper car breaker and great to watch the cars eat the kerbs and get all loose.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Looking at the current Google Maps satellite images of the Olympic Park, i can see potential for a semi-permanent Valencia, Abu-Dhabi, Albert Park or Circuit Gilles Villeneuve style course at the site. It's a little land-locked, and i don't know how old the current Google Maps image is, so i wouldn't like to say just how developed the site already is, but it could throw up an interesting circuit. I'm liking the sound of a section of the track entering and exiting the stadium like they do with rally/rallycross/supermoto at the X-Games - without the ramps, obviously.

It's old. There's a month until the Games, and if that was the present condition of the site, then there's no way London could host the Olympics. But it does give you a general sense of what could go where.

And one of the interesting things about the Santander proposal is that it has a modular pit lane. Each individual garage is a demountable section that could be moved into position before the race and taken away afterwards. It's something that could be useful to a circuit in London, wherever it might be.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I found this interesting - Formula Renault 3.5 is at the Moscow Raceway this weekend, which was originally intended to host Formula 1, but the deal fell apart. The circuit was built anyway, and this weekend is the first time a series recognised by the FIA as being a world championship has visited Russia.

I find it interesting because Vitaly Petrov was on hand to do a few laps in a Caterham CT-01 ... and he's not fussed on the circuit.

 

[Centura]

I find it interesting because Vitaly Petrov was on hand to do a few laps in a Caterham CT-01 ... and he's not fussed on the circuit.

And RBR with RB6.

 

[Robin]

Besides, screw F1. I want BTCC and British F3 on the streets again!

I never knew there was a street circuit in Birmingham, that's pretty awesome. Why did they stop using it? Did all the car's get nicked?

Would look pretty cool racing there now with all the new development and buildings like the Bullring.

 

[Ardius]

I never knew there was a street circuit in Birmingham, that's pretty awesome. Why did they stop using it? Did all the car's get nicked?

Would look pretty cool racing there now with all the new development and buildings like the Bullring.

It was ran as an exception (there is a law preventing road-racing/street circuits in the UK but the council can apply for an exception). I'm assuming either the council no longer wanted to host it or the bill they got passed for it didn't go beyond 1990. Or perhaps it just got too expensive or too many people complaining about it.

An interesting fun fact, the first European F3000 race held there was won by HRT's current team principal, Luiz Perez-Sala.

Edit: I've just read a random youtube comment saying the "Birmingham Road Race Act" is still active!

 

[Robin]

^ That's all kinds of awesome, I've been reading more about it and apparently there is always the option to revive it as its seems the council still has the right to do it, as you touched upon.

There was talk about doing it again but I guess with hard times and council cuts its probably not going to happen any time soon or ever.

All these years and no one thought to tell me about the existence of the only street circuit in the UK!

 

[Jimlaad43]

London Olympic stadium could become an F1 Circuit.


Birmingham stopped racing because they were making too much of a loss each year. However I would love it to be revived. I would be the first person on the list of Marshals if the did.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The French government has commissioned a feasbility study on hosting the French Grand Prix at Magny-Cours.

 

[hawkeye122]

The French government has commissioned a feasbility study on hosting the French Grand Prix at Magny-Cours.

Never actually watched a race at Magny-Cours. It seems like it would be easy to televise, with all of the switchbacks...
Non-Tilke track? Do it.

 

[Grand Prix]

Never actually watched a race at Magny-Cours. It seems like it would be easy to televise, with all of the switchbacks...
Non-Tilke track? Do it.

I seem to recall it being a little boring. And Schumacher won a race on a 4 stop strategy once.

It's an OK track, I find it nice to drive on, but I really can't seem to remember any awesome races there.


What we need to do is add some modern grandstands, pit facilities, rumble strips and run-offs to Rouen. If the longer, '60s layout is too fast, can always use the shorter layout with the S curves and extra hairpin. That will never happen though for obvious reasons, but one can dream.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Non-Tilke track? Do it.

Tilke re-profiled the final sector about a decade ago.

This is the circuit as it appeared in 2002:

This is how it stands today:

As you can see, Tilke made three changes. First of all, he tightened Chateaux d'Eau. The original design was a mid-range corner that the cars just sort of wallowed through, and it wasn't very exciting. Tilke tightened it because opening it out was impossible. The changes also made placement of the car through the high-speed Imola chicane very important; one mistake would put the driver off the racing line through Chateaux d'Eau, and spoil their run to the end of the lap.

Secondly, he moved the chicane from immediately before Lycee to immediately after it. This extended the approach to the final corner, giving the drivers a little bit more circuit to play around with if they wanted to try a pass. Up until then, drivers tended to run in single file from Chateaux d'Eau until the end of the lap, but Tilke's changes gave them a little bit extra room.

Finally, he shortened the pit enry considerably, which totally changed the strategic approach to the race.

In the end, Tilke's changes were probably for the better. Even though they never increased overtaking the way they had been intended to, they were made at a time when overtaking was incredibly difficult to begin with. At the very least, he created the possibility of overtaking in the final sector. If the 2012 cars were racing on the circuit as it is today, there would probably be some action there.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Tilke re-profiled the final sector about a decade ago.

This is the circuit as it appeared in 2002:

This is how it stands today:

As you can see, Tilke made three changes. First of all, he tightened Chateaux d'Eau. The original design was a mid-range corner that the cars just sort of wallowed through, and it wasn't very exciting. Tilke tightened it because opening it out was impossible. The changes also made placement of the car through the high-speed Imola chicane very important; one mistake would put the driver off the racing line through Chateaux d'Eau, and spoil their run to the end of the lap.

Secondly, he moved the chicane from immediately before Lycee to immediately after it. This extended the approach to the final corner, giving the drivers a little bit more circuit to play around with if they wanted to try a pass. Up until then, drivers tended to run in single file from Chateaux d'Eau until the end of the lap, but Tilke's changes gave them a little bit extra room.

Finally, he shortened the pit enry considerably, which totally changed the strategic approach to the race.

In the end, Tilke's changes were probably for the better. Even though they never increased overtaking the way they had been intended to, they were made at a time when overtaking was incredibly difficult to begin with. At the very least, he created the possibility of overtaking in the final sector. If the 2012 cars were racing on the circuit as it is today, there would probably be some action there.

Having raced at a track with the exact opposite layout of Imola corner, I can tell you, you guys just don't know how incredibly awesome it is, going flat-out through a chicane, when the ground falls away right after the entry into the chicane.



For those of you who don't know, Mosport kart track definitely has the exact opposite (left, right, left hairpin) of Imola, and it's taken flat out, but the car/kart builds up so many g-forces, that the car/kart pulls about 2-3 Gs of cornering load per lap through there.




Skip to 0:50 on this video, to see the Imola corner at speed.




Skip to 3:44 in this video, to see the Mosport karting track version, for proof, that I know how much fun that corner would be.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I'd much rather see F1 go back to the Adelaide Street circuit than anywhere else in the world! That track was a proper car breaker and great to watch the cars eat the kerbs and get all loose.

I feel Formula One has probably outgrown Adelaide, as much as I'd absolutely love to see it back in my home town. We'd also need permanent facilities, which was proposed a few years back but never went through due to the Adelaide City Council being tight arses and instead opting for a temporary facility (which they need to pay to construct/destruct each year). The upperclass wankers in the surrounding suburbs were a bit of a problem too as they couldn't deal with a building in "their" parklands.

And so we'll just keep holding our grudge against Melbourne for stealing the Grand Prix.

 

[peter_vod69]

I seem to recall it being a little boring. And Schumacher won a race on a 4 stop strategy once.

It's an OK track, I find it nice to drive on, but I really can't seem to remember any awesome races there.

Probably more down to the cars/drivers of the late 90's than anything else. I reckon the current cars and field would make for a great race there now.

 

[Blaze_409]

Wasnt the main problem with Magny-Cours Circuit de Nevers that it's not located near any major cities or anything significant in france.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There is now a highway that goes straight past the circuit.

 

[peter_vod69]

I have to say that last night's Grand Prix really cemented my feelings about the "new" (castrated) Hockenheim. It's a go-kart track these days, and not a very imaginative or interesting one. Watching the 1991 German Grand Prix on youtube earlier, I was surprised how characterful the old track was, especially when you consider its relatively simple layout. It would've suited the DRS-equipped cars of today no end.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Bernie says that the 2013 calendar will only have twenty races:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101571

He also confirms that the European Grand Prix will be discontinued, and Valencia will share the Spanish Grand Prix with Barcelona. The German Grand Prix will be at Hockenheim if a solution to the Nurburgring's financial problems cannot be found. And the Grand Prix of America at Port Imperial is "supposed to be" on the calendar.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Now the Greeks want in, because nothing says "fiscal responsibility" like dealing with Bernie Ecclestone.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I like the look of the layout, very interesting looking circuit.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Really?

It's a mess. It looks like it was designed by someone who decided that if it looked good on paper, it would produce good racing. At least Hermann Tilke tries to come up with stuff that makes things interesting for the drivers.

 

[Centura]

I like the look of the layout, very interesting looking circuit.

Agree.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Really?

It's a mess. It looks like it was designed by someone who decided that if it looked good on paper, it would produce good racing. At least Hermann Tilke tries to come up with stuff that makes things interesting for the drivers.

Really?

This looks far far more interesting than a Tilkeodrome.

 

[Grand Prix]

One thing I noticed is that the long curves aren't chopped up into multiple sharp apexes. From all my years of watching F1 cars race on Tilkedromes I never knew such a thing was possible.

 

[F1 fan]

Spa has secured the Belgian Grand Prix until 2015.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That's been confirmed for some time.