The Formula 1 calendar development threadFormula 1

[hawkeye122]

A bid has been received for a race around the London Olympic Park some time in the future.

Havent they talked about a London Street race for a while, and it still doesnt happen?
The Olympic park may be a bit easier to pull off though.


How about moving the European GP there? I hate the Valencia track...
Or call it the "English GP" or something. I think Silverstone, or even Brands/Donnington would still be better than a street race.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The European Grand Prix is already being dropped. Valencia and Barcelona will share the Spanish Grand Prix, starting next year.

And I don't believe that Valencia is so bad that it cannot be saved. If, for example, they could cut the final sector out entirely and link Turn 12 up to the main straight, it could be a very interesting circuit. Especially if they could fix the chicanes in the first sector.

Elsewhere, Joe Saward is also reporting that the 2013 calendar could have 23 races on it. The current Concorde Agreement is believed to have 17 races, with a provision for three extra; the new Concorde has been reported as guaranteeing 20 races, with a provision for "several" extra. With Valencia and Barcelona sharing the Spanish Grand Prix, that means there are current 19 races on the calendar. The addition of New Jersey makes that 20. Mexico and Argentina have talked up joining the calendar, which takes it to 22, and while the French are interested in joining, they want to alternate with Spa - which leaves the calendar at 22, and naturally begs the question of where the twenty-third race would be.

 

[hawkeye122]

The European Grand Prix is already being dropped. Valencia and Barcelona will share the Spanish Grand Prix, starting next year.

And I don't believe that Valencia is so bad that it cannot be saved. If, for example, they could cut the final sector out entirely and link Turn 12 up to the main straight, it could be a very interesting circuit. Especially if they could fix the chicanes in the first sector.

Elsewhere, Joe Saward is also reporting that the 2013 calendar could have 23 races on it. The current Concorde Agreement is believed to have 17 races, with a provision for three extra; the new Concorde has been reported as guaranteeing 20 races, with a provision for "several" extra. With Valencia and Barcelona sharing the Spanish Grand Prix, that means there are current 19 races on the calendar. The addition of New Jersey makes that 20. Mexico and Argentina have talked up joining the calendar, which takes it to 22, and while the French are interested in joining, they want to alternate with Spa - which leaves the calendar at 22, and naturally begs the question of where the twenty-third race would be.

Well according to the Article, I dont think it will be London. They dont sound too confident that it will get the Go-Ahead. Maybe they will stop at 22.

OR

Go back to San Marino! (Not a rumor, but something I just made up)

 

[Peter.]

The European Grand Prix is already being dropped. Valencia and Barcelona will share the Spanish Grand Prix, starting next year.

And I don't believe that Valencia is so bad that it cannot be saved. If, for example, they could cut the final sector out entirely and link Turn 12 up to the main straight, it could be a very interesting circuit. Especially if they could fix the chicanes in the first sector.

Elsewhere, Joe Saward is also reporting that the 2013 calendar could have 23 races on it. The current Concorde Agreement is believed to have 17 races, with a provision for three extra; the new Concorde has been reported as guaranteeing 20 races, with a provision for "several" extra. With Valencia and Barcelona sharing the Spanish Grand Prix, that means there are current 19 races on the calendar. The addition of New Jersey makes that 20. Mexico and Argentina have talked up joining the calendar, which takes it to 22, and while the French are interested in joining, they want to alternate with Spa - which leaves the calendar at 22, and naturally begs the question of where the twenty-third race would be.

I haven't seen any official confirmation of a shared Spanish Grand Prix. What I do know is that the race organizers of Valencia are having trouble paying FOM for the race, and it may not even see out its contract which ends in 2014, or even afford to pay FOM on a biannual basis even if Catalunya agreed to switch.

 

[Sach]

Valencia can go. Barcelona is a cool track imo, and would be a waste to be shared with anyway.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I haven't seen any official confirmation of a shared Spanish Grand Prix.

Then you haven't been looking too hard:

Spain's two Formula One venues in Barcelona and Valencia will alternate from next year, and a return to France is looking less likely. Bernie Ecclestone, the F1 chief said: "The [Spanish] race will be here in 2013 and 2014 in Valencia." The 81-year-old also expected Canada's Montreal race to agree a 10-year contract renewal from 2014 despite demands that the circuit be upgraded.

 

[PeterJB]

It really bugs me when I hear about these new Grands Prix coming up, because it means we'll eventually have to remove some of the current ones which are quite good. I'd be happy to have more races each season, but it's too much for the teams, so you have to make a compromise. If Mexico, Russia, New Jersey, London and Thailand are all gonna appear, who are they gonna replace that isn't worth keeping?

Here's how it see it:

Bring back the French Grand Prix, one that on stays on French soil each year, instead of alternating with Belgium. France is the homeland of Motorsport, it deserves a secure Grand Prix.

Drop Bahrain and Valencia. France can replace one of them.

Try and find a suitable circuit in Africa, so that all continents are represented (except Antarctica).

 

[m8h3r]

Valencia can go. Barcelona is a cool track imo, and would be a waste to be shared with anyway.

Get rid of the stupid last corner that tilke put onto the Barcelona track and that circuit is one of my favourite tracks. I enjoy seeing it there every year and if it was to sacrifice a race every other year for Valencia

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You might be the only person who likes Barcelona. It pretty much invented the cocnept of a circuit where it is impossible to overtake.

 

[Peasantslayer]

I'd love to see F1 races staged in more interesting environments like the London Olympic stadium, F1 wouldn't be the same if all the tracks where in the middle of fields.

You might be the only person who likes Barcelona. It pretty much invented the cocnept of a circuit where it is impossible to overtake.

The greatest race that I've ever seen was on that track, there are a few good overtaking points like at the end of the straight at the start of the final sector. I do think it is better suited to bikes though.

It really bugs me when I hear about these new Grands Prix coming up, because it means we'll eventually have to remove some of the current ones which are quite good. I'd be happy to have more races each season, but it's too much for the teams, so you have to make a compromise. If Mexico, Russia, New Jersey, London and Thailand are all gonna appear, who are they gonna replace that isn't worth keeping?

Here's how it see it:

Bring back the French Grand Prix, one that on stays on French soil each year, instead of alternating with Belgium. France is the homeland of Motorsport, it deserves a secure Grand Prix.

Drop Bahrain and Valencia. France can replace one of them.

Try and find a suitable circuit in Africa, so that all continents are represented (except Antarctica).

Kyalami is a nice track in South Africa.

 

[Tired Tyres]

You might be the only person who likes Barcelona. It pretty much invented the cocnept of a circuit where it is impossible to overtake.

It used to have plenty of overtaking on it. Remember Mansell vs Senna?

Kyalami is a nice track in South Africa.

Kyalami used to be a good track. I don't think it's suitable any more.

 

[Prince.M5]

I don't think the Kyalami of nowadays will provide much entertainment. The A1GP race held there back in 2008 didn't provide much either...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If only they could rebuild the original Kyalami:

But instead of going through the essess and Leeukop Bend, add in Rindtkurve (as a double-left, not a doublt-right) from the Red Bull Ring:

Then Turn 3 from the old Oscar Galvez circuit in Argentina:

Then, in the place of Leeukop, take Gosser from the Red Bull Ring:

Finally, replace the kink with a slightly faster version of Tamburello (as a right-left-right instead of a left-right-left):

And there you have a tribute to some of the great circuits that will never be back on the calendar.

Are you listening, Bernie?

 

[Sach]

Are you listening, Bernie?

I think we know the answer.

 

[F1 fan]

Speaking of Bernie, He's been scaremongering again.

New Jersey "won't happen" in 2013

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It’s just Bernie’s way of keeping new circuits on their toes. There is talk that the 2013 calendar could have as many as 23 races on it, but the problem is that the current Concorde Agreement only allows for 17 races and 3 extra if the team agree to it. Since the sport is looking at 23 races, the new Concorde Agreement will have to change the maximum number of Grands Prix – but if the teams can’t agree on it, then Bernie will have to cull three races from the 2013 calendar. And since most of the events have a current contract, putting pressure on newer events is the only way forward because if they even look like they might not make it, they’ll be the first under the headsman’s axe if the new Concorde doesn’t go through.

 

[m8h3r]

Lets get prisonermonkeys designing these new tracks. Maybe then they would be a joy to watch whereas Tilke's tracks are so boring. I'd say Tilke is one of the worst things to happen to Formula 1 in a long time.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'd say Tilke is one of the worst things to happen to Formula 1 in a long time.

Tilke's hands are tied by the FIA regulations on circuit design, and also because when governments decide they want a race, they tend to simply set land aside without too much thought about what goes into making a good racing circuit. We've seen what Tilke is capable of with the likes of Sepang and Istanbul, so I think he deserves more credit than he receives. He's also pursuing an interesting design philosophy of late that forces teams to compromise their car setups and play to the strengths of their cars. It has culimated in his proposal for the Mar del Plata circuit, which is all long straights and hairpins. That might not sound too interesting, but a rough approximation suggests that the circuit would require less downforce than Monza, which is certainly going to be interesting (if Mar del Plata makes it).

 

[Ardius]

And there you have a tribute to some of the great circuits that will never be back on the calendar.

Imola and the Österreichring could return, just requires the money.

 

[peter_vod69]

The trouble with Tilke is that a lot of his designs result in courses full of right angles, endlessly-tightening corners, and then huge straights completely at odds with the rest of the course. There doesn't seem to be a lot of old-school, balls-out high speed apexes and so on. The other thing I don't like about the majority of new courses is the huge width of the tracks. The challenge, it seems, is to control understeer, conserve the front tyres and then have enough gearing and grunt to control the position to the next corner. While I can think of several exceptions, the general theme seems to be one of "control the understeer" .

Maybe it isn't Tilke's fault, maybe it's just what has been thrust upon him by the FIA, but which of the Tilke-dromes would really be missed if they got the chop?

 

[Tired Tyres]

The trouble with Tilke is that he is an architect with no talent whatsoever for track design because he is not a track designer.

It is Tilke's lack of any form of talent for track design that is the fault, but apologists keep defending him even though FIA track design rules do not preclude good track design, just stupidly dangerous track design.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The trouble with Tilke is that he is an architect with no talent whatsoever for track design because he is not a track designer.

Yeah, that's not actually a thing. There are maybe four people in the world who could reasonable describe themselves as "track designers", Tilke included - and most of them are like him, architects and civil engineers. There's not exactly an extreme demand for racing circuits worldwide, so most people who could call themselves "track designers" usually have other projects to work on as well. If you were an architect and/or civil engineer who specialised exclusively in the design of racing circuits, you'd probably go hungry.

It's at this point that you're likely to jump in and mention John Hugenholtz as a "real" circuit designer. Well, just as Tilke built Bahrain, Hugenholtz built Jarama.

 

[Tired Tyres]

None of which can in any way excuse Tilke for having no talent for designing good tracks.

 

[RTSolvalou]

I'd be much in favor of a Philippine F1 race.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

None of which can in any way excuse Tilke for having no talent for designing good tracks.

I see a whole lot of people saying "Tilke doesn't design good circuits", but I don't see anyone defining what a good circuit is.

See, the problem is that people point to Tilke's designs as not being conductive to good racing. Abu Dhabi is particularly hated among fans. But Abu Dhabi gave us this:



Likewise, Valencia is despised - but it quite literally just produced this:



That, to me, suggests that the problem is not the circuits, but the cars.

 

[m8h3r]

Even though GP2 is only 1 step behind Formula 1 I'd say it is a completely different racing series. The cars seem to drive different and the Formula 1 races are like 60 laps each, which makes them almost like small endurance races whereas these cars do sprint races which means anything could happen and you may as well put it all down on the line.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That just sounds like an excuse to me.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Even though GP2 is only 1 step behind Formula 1 I'd say it is a completely different racing series. The cars seem to drive different and the Formula 1 races are like 60 laps each, which makes them almost like small endurance races whereas these cars do sprint races which means anything could happen and you may as well put it all down on the line.

They also seen to roll more than any other racing series.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

A London Grand Prix could actually be a whole lot closer to reality that we realise.

 

[SilverArrow]

What the track would look like: