The "Good" Chrysler Thread: Making Vanilla, Vanilla

[Philly]

Chrysler - FWD must die, cheapest car ~ most expensive Dodge

I don't think they'll need to abandon FWD. I personally think they should aim for a "near-luxury" sort of market. Building something like the old 300Ms probably has a lot more potential than chasing down CTSs and whatever other sporty sedans Cadillac plans to put out in the near future. Especially if they can keep the price down somewhat, maybe they'll be able to show themselves as the "extra-nice volume brand" that I think of whenever I think of what Chrysler should be. Although I think it would be great if they did have a few options that were positioned more into Cadillac territory. Those products will really make the badge shine. But they should probably be aiming for cars starting between $30k and $40k. Maybe up to 45-50k for the bigger cars.

Dodge - Sports cars and RWD sedans (some FWD is OK, but ideally, kill them)

Dodge needs to compromise between the funky, youthful and sporty brand that they want be and the mainstream brand that they should be. If Chrysler is moving upmarket, they really are going to have to pick up a lot of sales with more generic cars. Put something on the Punto platform and develop a good platform to put both a Dodge and Chrysler midsize car on and I think the company could have a decent base line. And then update the big RWD sedans, with the Chrysler going way upmarket and the Dodge being where the G8 was and it would probably compliment the rest of the company well.

If Chrysler is going to stick to just Chrysler and Dodge, they'll have to be careful to differentiate them enough that they have their own identities while not dragging them so far apart that there is a gaping hole in the market between the two.

Jeep - I'll let the truck guys speak for them.

Release the new Grand Cherokee, fix the Liberty into something with a purpose, maybe update the Wrangler or something (I don't know how well that thing is doing) and throw in something based off the Panda 4x4 to please the greenies and Jeep would probably be a relevant brand.

Doing that, there'll be too much brand overlap. Dodge could be for the smaller FF cars (i.e. the Neon and 500), with the Viper as the flagship. Ram can become a Jeep, maybe? That way, Jeep is nothing but the trucks and 4x4's.

I think Jeep is pretty cemented with it's SUV and trail running image. And the Ram really doesn't fit into their portfolio. And being the work truck, it seems better fit for the Dodge badge, despite being a truck.

 

[Exorcet]

I don't think they'll need to abandon FWD. I personally think they should aim for a "near-luxury" sort of market. Building something like the old 300Ms probably has a lot more potential than chasing down CTSs and whatever other sporty sedans Cadillac plans to put out in the near future. Especially if they can keep the price down somewhat, maybe they'll be able to show themselves as the "extra-nice volume brand" that I think of whenever I think of what Chrysler should be. Although I think it would be great if they did have a few options that were positioned more into Cadillac territory. Those products will really make the badge shine. But they should probably be aiming for cars starting between $30k and $40k. Maybe up to 45-50k for the bigger cars.





Dodge needs to compromise between the funky, youthful and sporty brand that they want be and the mainstream brand that they should be. If Chrysler is moving upmarket, they really are going to have to pick up a lot of sales with more generic cars. Put something on the Punto platform and develop a good platform to put both a Dodge and Chrysler midsize car on and I think the company could have a decent base line. And then update the big RWD sedans, with the Chrysler going way upmarket and the Dodge being where the G8 was and it would probably compliment the rest of the company well.

That's a viable solution too, but I don't agree that there is more potential in it. For one thing, despite Cadiallac, Chrysler can take advantage of the lack of US luxury makers (I'm sure that will work in the US, especially in regions that really support Detroit). Outside the US, Cadillac isn't as popular, so Chrysler has the chance to potentially become the biggest US name overseas (though I realize Chrysler doesn't rank high globally either, I'm just saying it's open competition). If they do aim high, I think FWD needs to go (I'd like to see it go period, but that's not realistic), it's just not going to work for larger luxury models. The Cadillac DTS is a joke compared to RWD counter parts. Chrysler can pick up. Cadilac should be their icon, as they are still turning themselves up. The 300 C in 2005 was a reasonably good success, but Chrysler didn't sustain it. They need to recreate the hype of the original 300 with the next model, then keep buidling their cars and their image from there.



Dodge going sporty doesn't imply it won't handle mainstream stuff. Dodge already has a split personality in my mind. You have the Viper and SRT line, and then the Avenger, Caliber, etc. They've been juggling the two images already, there is no reason they can't continue to do it. Introduce a Corvette fighter and a lightweight RWD sports car. Make the next Avenger RWD or give it a RWD SRT version, that would really make it stand out. Fix the Calibur, maybe add some other mainstream cars.

 

[YSSMAN]

Part of the problem is that the brands that Chrysler and Dodge would have competed with are otherwise dead, or moving significantly up-market. I've always thought of Chrysler as someone who was going to throw punches with Buick and Mercury, which isn't exactly a high achievement. But, with GM moving Buick significantly upmarket, Chrysler needs to do exactly the same. Dodge, on the other hand, lost Pontiac, which was arguably its closest competitor in terms of style and substance. If they stay too "hard-edged," they're going to risk losing even more sales to Chevrolet and Ford (like it matters much anyway).

FIAT needs to begin to position Chrysler, ultimately, as a Buick-fighting "affordable luxury" brand. That would imply well-trimmed products, with a significant amount standard equipment, at an affordable price. I think that would eventually imply a lot of carryover parts between models, hopefully in the near future, of FIAT origin. The thing of it is that Chrysler, technically, was never the "luxury" brand at Chrysler. That was let to the Desoto and Imperial marques, which died unfortunate deaths in the 60s and 70s.

The problem is that I often feel like Chrysler just rides on the success of the 300C and PT Cruiser to drive sales. We need to see a re-investment in a PT-like small car, preferably of FIAT origin, to bring in the bucks for the emerging small luxury car market. They need to make a significant investment in the family car segment, particularly with a semi-luxurious mid-size sedan. Get rid of the Sebring and give us the 200C. That would be a solid start.


But what about Dodge?

Hmm, that's a bit more difficult. They're going to have to shed the "tough-guy" image, or alter it slight to be a better, friendlier Dodge that is going to be able to appeal to a larger market. Not just the typical "Dodge People." The Caliber has got to go, as soon as possible, to have a legitimate entry into the affordable small car market. Furthermore, Dodge needs to get "dangerous" and make a sub-Caliber compact that people will want to buy. Base it off the Panda, and they'll sell a billion. The Avenger needs a significant update as well, or needs to be replaced entirely. Don't touch the trucks, they're just about perfect.


FIAT has a lot of work to do, but I'm still of the mindset that they bought Chrysler for the specific reason of getting into the North American market with their Alfa Romeo and FIAT brands. Furthermore, they wanted Jeep. Really bad. If Chrysler and Dodge fall by the wayside, honestly, I don't think the Italians are worried.

 

[Tornado]

Another problem with moving Chrysler "up" with Buick is that it isn't a sure thing that moving Buick up will work anyways.

 

[YSSMAN]

True. I think the game essentially needs to be defined as "Out-Lexusing" Lexus.

 

[Northstar]

I think the problem with the Chrysler brand is that it doesn't really have it's own style. Most view it as a re badged Dodge with a higher MSRP(which it is). Chrysler should have more cars like the 300C and PT Cruiser that look like their own individual car, unlike the rest of the lineup which looks similar to it's Dodge counterpart.

I think Chrysler has a good setup with 3 brands marketed to the 3 biggest markets(Where as Ford & GM have had multiple brands marketed to the same group). However they have never seemed to be able to execute it well.

 

[Jim Prower]

It think one of the issues was that they haven't been willing to take their vehicles upmarket for some time, ending up with a lot of low-end models. It got better in the '90s, but stalled and nosedived when Benz bought 'em.

 

[Philly]

I'm starting to wonder how Alfa Romeo and FIAT dealer networks would be set up.

FIAT 500s to be sold at Chrysler dealers.

It looks like the 300 might be joined by a 500 in Chrysler showrooms. According to Chrysler CEO and head of sales for all Chrysler Group brands, Peter Fong, the Pentastar will be in charge of Fiat 500 distribution in the States, and unlike the ill-fated Chrysler TC by Maserati, the tag isn't expected to read "Chrysler 500 by Fiat." Because of its relatively low volume, Chrysler doesn't see the need to build a separate dealer network for the retro runabout. Instead, Chrysler dealers will just be adding a Fiat 500 corner in their showrooms.

According to Autoweek, about 80 percent of Chrysler dealers are currently offering Dodge and Jeep lines as well as Chryslers, so adding Fiat shouldn't be too difficult. Chrysler will start building the 500 at their Toluca, Mexico plant in late 2010 or early 2011 according to AW's supplier source. Of the 100,000 units Chrysler plans to build in Mexico, one-third are expected to go to Brazil, who has a free trade pact with Mexico, and as production ramps up, Chrysler is expected to offer the entire 500 lineup eventually. That means we stand a good shot at seeing the hatchback, convertible, wagon and Abarth versions here in the Colonies. We'll take an Abarth SS. No, a Giardiniera. Can you build us an Abarth SS Giardiniera, please?

I'm guessing the 500 will be FIAT's biggest model here in the states. So if they can't even get that thing into its own dealer network, I'm wondering where I'll be able to pick up my next new Alfa or FIAT. I know Alfas are currently set to be sold at Ferrari dealers, but surely that network can't support a brand like that, especially as it grows in the US. And the same goes for FIAT. Chrysler can probably handle the increased traffic (with pleasure), but does FIAT really want to be selling their cars alongside some of the worst cars on the roads today?

I'd like to see some FIAT/Alfa Romeo dealerships popping up in the next couple years. If the brands get a foothold in the country, I'm sure they'll want something like that. Because simply putting up a few extra posters in the nation's most dismal stores isn't exactly the best way to kick off a new company coming to the states.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'm guessing the 500 will be FIAT's biggest model here in the states. So if they can't even get that thing into its own dealer network, I'm wondering where I'll be able to pick up my next new Alfa or FIAT. I know Alfas are currently set to be sold at Ferrari dealers, but surely that network can't support a brand like that, especially as it grows in the US. And the same goes for FIAT. Chrysler can probably handle the increased traffic (with pleasure), but does FIAT really want to be selling their cars alongside some of the worst cars on the roads today?

Eventually, it won't matter, as many of the models will be Fiat-based, and it'll be no different than selling a Fiat next to a Lancia.

BTW, no need to completely capitalize Fiat.

 

[Sniffs]

I'm gonna breifly throw my two cents in on an opinion.

Fiat may try the same thing Chrysler did to itself internally. chryslers will become rebadged Alphas, Dodge may end up with with a few as well. as long as they don't mess with Jeep, I'll take what I can get.

but, the way things are going lately, I'm gonna consider the US Auto industry as dead as Britan's. in our case, it was less about crap Quality than it was about money going the wrong way.

my current Opinion.
1. Ford is now European, and no longer an american brand.
2. Chrysler has evaporated. the only thing left is Jeep, and they've traded hands probably as much as Audi
3. GM has been pared down to nothing.

I think Chevy can officially declare itself the US winner of the car wars, as ford is less american than it used to be.

the complication that I see is that there's almost nothing else left but Toyotas. mabey we should ask Toyota if their interested in Dodge and Jeep?

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd like to see some FIAT/Alfa Romeo dealerships popping up in the next couple years. If the brands get a foothold in the country, I'm sure they'll want something like that. Because simply putting up a few extra posters in the nation's most dismal stores isn't exactly the best way to kick off a new company coming to the states.

I had been under the impression that FIAT/Alfa dealers were going to just take over where Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealers had closed up, or lost the rights to sell those vehicles. In some cases, that would make a lot of sense. Depending on how successful that dealer had been previously.

Sticking the 500 on the side of a Chrysler dealer isn't a terrible thing. Considering that its an excellent car, that millions of people are going to want to buy, its going to drive a lot of traffic into the "not doing too well" Chrysler dealers. Does that mean they could sell a few more vehicles along the way? Probably. But not for certain.

 

[JCE]

I think I want to buy a Fiat 500. I'm dead serious too. I want one in as close to Ferrari red as I can get my hands on too. And I hate red!

If I didn't have to save up for an engagement ring and pay for a large portion of my wedding I would buy one.

 

[Northstar]

I think having a bunch if Alfa Romeo/Fiat dealerships would be a little to risky. Currently people(here in the states) have no idea what either brand is outside of the news saying Fiat bought Chrysler. What they are doing is probably best, get your brand introduced before you start pouring millions into dealerships. Although I could see them opening a few dealerships for just those brands in a couple markets just to see how it goes over.

 

[Tornado]

I think I want to buy a Fiat 500. I'm dead serious too. I want one in as close to Ferrari red as I can get my hands on too. And I hate red!

I've been thinking that the first new car I want to own will be a 500 as well. Though mine will be a convertible in white.

 

[JCE]

I've been thinking that the first new car I want to own will be a 500 as well. Though mine will be a convertible in white.

Oh, a white convertible is definately mega own as well. But a red Fiat just speaks to me.

 

[Sniffs]

as long as they bring the stripey package over here . and for pete's sake, stay away from the american Insurance Safe color palette.

 

[martialstax]

Sergio Marchionne has appointed Lancia CEO Olivier Francois as CEO of the Chrysler brand as well. It seems obvious that Lancia and Chrysler will share a lot of future platforms. It's already clear that Alfa Romeo and Chrysler will share platforms as well.

Chrysler built it's best cars when it was a part of DaimlerChrysler, but Daimler left Chrysler out to dry when they decided to sell them off. Now everything they have is at least two generations old. Getting fresh Fiat/Lancia/Alfa Romeo blood in them will help Chrysler. Fiat benefits from having Chrysler and Dodge sales volume in the US to help spread out the cost of platform development. Now the only question is if Fiat will hold on to Chrysler and really integrate it into their automotive empire. If they do, that means the Italians are more faithful than the Germans. Go figure.

 

[Jim Prower]

Chrysler built it's best cars when it was a part of DaimlerChrysler, but Daimler left Chrysler out to dry when they decided to sell them off.

I can't agree with this statement. It's the product lineup that Daimler created (save the LX series,) that got Chrysler in this mess in the first place. Chrysler's more successful cars were developed under Chrysler's independent years

 

[YSSMAN]

Jim is right on this one. Before the Germans moved in, Chrysler was in good shape to take significant portions of market share from Ford and GM. Ford especially, who were unable to do anything right at the time. The current Sebring/Avenger and Caliber/Patriot/Compass are the EXACT reason why we know the DiamlerChrysler merger was one of the worst in history.

Still, I love FIAT. So I'm not worried.

 

[Tornado]

Chrysler built it's best cars when it was a part of DaimlerChrysler, but Daimler left Chrysler out to dry when they decided to sell them off.

(Getting a lot of use out of this recently).
Anyways: No just no. Chrysler was the strongest of the three American companies when they got scared and sold themselves to Daimler. Daimler then RAN THE COMPANY INTO THE GROUND.

In before Duke finds this.

 

[buickgnx88]

Wall Street Journal makes early Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Fiat predictions, says Autoblog

Finally, after years of mismanagement marked by a distinct lack of tangible product decisions, the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands seem likely to get a thorough makeover via its new Fiat corporate overlords. Whether this turns into a good thing or bad thing for the three brands remains to be seen, and the stage is set for the plan to be officially released on November 4.

The Wall Street Journal has apparently procured a little inside knowledge on the plan, and, if accurate, there are a few surprises. First, the expected: Chrysler will begin offering the Fiat 500 in its own U.S. dealerships as soon as possible; Alfa Romeo will make its long-awaited American comeback with an established dealer network and the majority of the Dodge and Chrysler lineups will be reworked atop Fiat platforms, save the rear-wheel drive architecture of the Dodge Charger/Challenger and Chrysler 300.

Looking further down the line, the Dodge Grand Caravan will reportedly be dropped in favor of the Chrysler Town and Country and unloved nameplates like Dodge Nitro, Caliber and Avenger will be forgotten, probably along with the Jeep Patriot and Compass. New models will be brought in from Fiat to replace these outgoing cars, including a new mid-size sedan in 2012. Finally, Alfa Romeo's resurgence will begin with the subcompact MiTo in 2012 and a larger sedan a year later.

We won't know how much of this is accurate until we hear it from the horse's mouth next Wednesday, but it definitely gives us plenty to chew on

Here's the article from the Wall Street Journal BTW.

 

[Tornado]

So, in other words, win?

I'm not sure about dropping the Grand Caravan, but absolutely nothing else in that piece sounds like anything less than the best thing ever.

 

[Jim Prower]

Yeah...I think minivans in general are being replaced by Crossover vehicles, which I find a bit sad. Sliding doors are really useful things....

((ah, lord, I just said "Really useful." Darnit, Rev. W. Awdry!))

Still, very good news, I think. Now I'll have to wonder...will the next Sebring/Avenger be WIN OVER 9000? Like...Supertouring-era Stratus win?

 

[Omnis]

No. Chrysler sucks too hard to do anything like that.

 

[JCE]

I'm glad to see that things are finally coming close to being good for Chrysler. I can't wait for Alfas and Fiats over here.

 

[Northstar]

So, in other words, win?

I'm not sure about dropping the Grand Caravan, but absolutely nothing else in that piece sounds like anything less than the best thing ever.

Most of the new Chrysler mini-vans I see are Town & Countries. I see about one Grand Caravan for every 3 Town & Coutnries.


(Reading that I realize I really live in suburbia)

 

[Exorcet]

If Chrysler is going for Cadillac, why does it have minivans? I'd think Dodge would keep them. But it's a small detail compared to everything else.

 

[Northstar]

Town & Countries sell better, therefor they keep that and kill the Caravan.

 

[YSSMAN]

The lack of small vehicles overall is concerning, especially if they're going to be depending on Alfa Romeo to drive the sales forward. The 500 will likely sell in droves, but we still need some extra small cars at Dodge and Chrysler. Otherwise, I agree with the majority of choices there. Especially with cutting down Jeep and Dodge to the core products.

 

[Northstar]

I agree, they need to get rid of the Caliber(do people really buy these things) and make a true Neon replacement. Sure the Neon wasn't a great car but I remember seeing them everywhere in the late 90's.