The "Good" Chrysler Thread: Making Vanilla, Vanilla

[McLaren]

Weren't they going to kill of the Viper next year anyways before they tanked?

That's what everyone keeps assuming, though by technicality, the ideas for the next gen. were shelved, not thrown away.

Either way, the interest isn't surprising. The entire ACR order sheet is currently backed up, and Chrysler actually doesn't have that much trouble selling off Vipers. So whether the next gen. is killed off or not, this current one is still selling at a very good rate.

 

[Sniffs]

the way things are going, it sounds like the only genuinely american DESIGNED car will be boring old fords.

Moglet: Fiat's probably still have the same POS rep over there that they do here...and we haven't had any in the US for 25 years!
Omnis: I'm considering it, myself. i don't need six tons of size. the problem is, will Mediterranean oriented vehicles survive US winters, US roads, and US hills?

the thing I would be concerned about more than anything else is the fact that any european vehicle coming to the US will gain about 50% in weight to meet the heavy US safety standards and minimum items that americans automatically expect in cars.

 

[Leonidae]

the problem is, will Mediterranean oriented vehicles survive US winters, US roads, and US hills?

They survive from our winters and hills just fine, and that should make the car good enough for anything US can throw at it.

 

[Jondot]

the problem is, will Mediterranean oriented vehicles survive US winters, US roads, and US hills?

We don't all live in Holland, y'know... We do have hills over in Europe

 

[Philly]

I imagine FIAT pays attention to the climate in the Alps. They are in Italy, after all.

 

[YSSMAN]

Autoblog Wishes to Clarify Future Plans

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/26/report-alfa-romeo-to-lead-american-charge-fiat-500-to-go-it-al/

So, Alfa Romeo will become the volume brand for the FIAT-Chrysler partnership, not FIAT itself. They instead will sell only the 500, much like how MINI sells only the Cooper (and its variants). It sounds like a smart choice to me, as the brand carries a bit more weight with enthusiasts, as well as those who were fans of the brand previously.

EDIT:

Even more details include:

• Standard Hatchback
• Convertible
• A Wagon Version
• "Sporty Hatchback" (ie, Abarth 500)

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/29/report-four-versions-of-fiat-500-in-the-u-s-by-2011-including/

 

[harrytuttle]

Autoblog Wishes to Clarify Future Plans

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/26/report-alfa-romeo-to-lead-american-charge-fiat-500-to-go-it-al/

So, Alfa Romeo will become the volume brand for the FIAT-Chrysler partnership, not FIAT itself. They instead will sell only the 500, much like how MINI sells only the Cooper (and its variants). It sounds like a smart choice to me, as the brand carries a bit more weight with enthusiasts, as well as those who were fans of the brand previously.

So...the Alfa-Romeo 500, not the FIAT 500? What about Abarth?

 

[Northstar]

No, it will be the FIAT 500, that will be the only FIAT branded car though, the rest will be Alfa's.

At least I think that is what it said.

 

[YSSMAN]

The 500 will be the only FIAT-badged car, thus far, that we will be seeing in the United States. The thing is, we'll be getting four different versions of the car. The standard hatch, the convertible, a "wagon" (whatever that means), and the Abarth. With that 18 month window in place, that puts the cars pretty deep into 2010, or early 2011, before they arrive.

By that time, it is going to be a very, very crowded segment with the addition of the Fiesta, possibly the Ka, the Viva, Cruze, Spark, not to mention the re-badged FIAT products at Dodge and Chrysler. Scion is supposed to have the Toyota iQ here as well by mid/late 2010 as a 2011 model, which could cause some complications as well.

 

[Moglet]

a "wagon" (whatever that means)

On a better note, I went to see the 500C yesterday and it looks stunning, especially in the red I saw it in. The roof works really well and despite what the photos say, you can actually see very clearly out of the rear by looking in the rear view mirror.

 

[Jim Prower]

You're kidding, we're actually getting the Abarth 500?

well, I believe I've possibly found a first new car (unless GT-R depreciation rates are...in my favor...)

 

[YSSMAN]

So the 500C is the wagon version of the 500 then? Actually, it doesn't look all that bad, and I suppose that if you need the space (I assume there is extra) it would be a stylish alternative to... Something.

 

[Jim Prower]

Mini Clubman? That's about all I can think...

 

[Keef]

Wow, that 500C is pretty much the worst looking wagon-like thing I've ever seen in my life. Congratulations HHR, you're not last anymore.

 

[JCE]

Keef you are NUTS! That 500 "wagon" looks very good. I would buy one.

 

[Omnis]

Keef you are NUTS! That 500 "wagon" looks very good. I would buy one.

Looks good from the back. The front is so-so. Never did like that fiat look.

However, it's MASSIVE WIN over the CRYsler crap it's replacing. The real question is whether it will be better than the VW Polo. And, of course, Will it blend?

 

[YSSMAN]

Congratulations HHR, you're not last anymore.

Actually, I think the HHR is dead for 2010. Beyond that, I don't know either. The Orlando is coming, and that is due to replace it.

Until then, the Ford Transit Connect is full of win in this segment. FULL OF IT.

 

[Omnis]

Actually, I think the HHR is dead for 2010. Beyond that, I don't know either. The Orlando is coming, and that is due to replace it.

Until then, the Ford Transit Connect is full of win in this segment. FULL OF IT.

And also full of...

CAKE. "I come with open doors, bearing win."

 

[Philly]

I... kinda like it? Is that bad?

The real question is whether it will be better than the VW Polo.

The real answer would be no.

 

[Sniffs]

I gotta stop using only the "latest post" buttons, I'm getting responses to my posts a month or two afterwards

Leonidae: I'm not talking temperatures, I'm talking pure-D SALT up here in the rustbelt. salt, stones, road debris, potholes that can swallow the likes of a Cinq (and in ASPHALT) train tracks that stick up three miles (that's what it FEELS like) out of the road bed. I don't know what the "roadkill" quotient is in europe, but when a medium sized critter can wipe out a lorry, imagine what hitting a rabbit with a cinq will do to it!

Jondot: in my area, it's like this; imagine running the cotswalds, Yorkshire, or the Scottish Highlands (which are Geologically related) all the time, on dirt roads that are all boulders the size of your tyres that shake you around like old cobblestones with chunks missing out of the set. now picture driving straight up and down grades with absolutely NO curves, or a single sharp, literally squared off right or left (like their was a crossroads there) on the steepest part of the grade. no switchbacks, no curve grading, a cliff on the inside of the turn, a dropoff on the outside, almost straight down into a coal mine, the road leaning to the inside next to the hill at an angle that would make a supercar tip over. now, imagine climbing that hill for 3 MILES, and running into a stop sign or traffic light at the top !
if you people ever wondered why americans need these huge powerful engines, huge tyres, and cubic shapes, our old roads are why. they go straight over hills and straight down valleys with no thought of braking (because they'd insta-fry), follow old farmer's boundary lines (thus, the L turns), and deliberately jig hard to avoid lawsuits by property owners who are too stubborn to give right of way (eminent domain or not). on a major highway (that I would normally be on right now) there is a 9% grade that runs for about 3 miles, and has a couple straight stretches on the steep bits, and a couple deadman's curves on the steeper bits! I have to scoot into the Trucker's lane, mash the pedal, and hope the hell I don't run out of gas trying to keep up with traffic, crawling at 30/50 and having guys in old pickups laugh their butts off when they blow my doors off.

I'm gonna take a couple good batteries, tape my cam to the windshield/screen, and show you guys the horror of old roads in a state dominated by the oldest mountians in the world.

 

[Moglet]

So the 500C is the wagon version of the 500 then? Actually, it doesn't look all that bad, and I suppose that if you need the space (I assume there is extra) it would be a stylish alternative to... Something.

No, the 500C is the convertible;

http://www.fiat.co.uk/Showroom/#showroom/500c/configurator
My configuration would cost me £13,120

 

[ranhammerR34]

Hmmm I think I actually like the little Fiat 500... It looks really cool and I think if its cheaper than the Mini, with a good dealer network, and excellent service and support, it will sell like mad. The Ford Fiesta has my attention too, and I like it, but I need to get my financial stuff together first. --- Randy

 

[Philly]

We now know what FIAT wants out of Chrysler. I say good luck.

When you were a kid, there was probably a point when your mom or dad told you that you could one day be president of the United States. They probably didn't really mean it, but at least they wanted you to push yourself a little harder to achieve life's goals. Fiat appears to be in a similar situation with its new underling, Chrysler. The Italian automaker is working through a far-reaching game plan for the Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge brands, and it sees Chrysler competing in the luxury space. Chrysler brand CEO Peter Fong is setting the bar high, too, as he sees the brand being "a notch above Lincoln, a notch above Cadillac."

You may recall former parent Daimler had similar aspirations for the Chrysler brand, with vehicles like the 300 and Pacifica leading the way. While the 300 had some success and commanded a reasonably high MSRP, the Pacifica was a comparative failure. Then Chrysler followed up with the Sebring, which put to bed any hopes and prayers for an upscale Chrysler brand. Fong told Automotive News that Chrysler needs to be better differentiated from Dodge; a nameplate that management wants to be known more for driving dynamics. The only marque that will likely remain largely intact after Fiat's sweeping changes is Jeep, and even then, the Jeep lineup will likely receive more small, front-wheel drive-based vehicles in an effort to satisfy increasingly stringent CAFE standards.

While we can see how a more upscale Chrysler brand would be a great idea, we're having a hard time seeing how the Pentastar's namesake will catch up to Cadillac (or its competitors) any time soon. The resurgence of the Wreath and Crest has been seven years in the making, and even now the brand's success essentially rides on one product – the CTS. New models like the BMW 3 Series-fighting ATS and large and luxurious XTS promise to rebuild some of the momentum that Cadillac has recently lost, but even that remains to be seen. Chrysler, on the other hand, currently has nothing that can reasonably be said to compete with Cadillac, and judging from comments made by Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne, there isn't anything in the pipeline, either. It's good to dream, though, right?

[Source: Automotive News - subs req'd]

I think the Chrysler brand is something that should be up batting with the best premium cars America has to offer. They used to make some fairly nice cars and I think have always stood as the "luxury" marque in the company.

But it's also a bit of a lofty goal to get Chrysler up to that point. It's going to cost a fair amount to develop the great cars that Cadillac has out on the market, especially for a company that hasn't been a player in the luxury game in a while.

I'd also question whether the company can support Chrysler going up to that point, especially if Dodge is supposed to be about driving dynamics. They'll still need some sort of a volume brand, which won't happen unless they keep Chrysler from jumping all the way to the top and have Dodge lean more towards volume rather than performance.

It'll be interesting to see what FIAT can do with Chrysler, as long as Chrysler lasts long enough with terrible products and nothing really coming down the pipeline. As for CAFE, I'd really like to see them scrap the lesser of the Jeeps and stick a Panda 4x4 thing in there. I think they could probably sell a few well built, compact SUVs.

 

[buickgnx88]

If Chrysler wants to get back in the luxury game, they should reintroduce the fabulous Cordoba, with its fine Corinthian leather.
(Ricardo Montalbon not included )

 

[Exorcet]

Chrysler - FWD must die, cheapest car ~ most expensive Dodge

Dodge - Sports cars and RWD sedans (some FWD is OK, but ideally, kill them)

Jeep - I'll let the truck guys speak for them.

Quote two posts above me sounds good.

 

[TheBook]

Chrysler - FWD must die, cheapest car ~ most expensive Dodge

So what are Vipers going for new these days? I don't think they'll be getting many customers looking for a $60-80k luxory sedan for a while. Maybe once they begin to make a name for themselves again, their cars can come up to that level a bit.

Dodge - Sports cars and RWD sedans (some FWD is OK, but ideally, kill them)

Doing that, there'll be too much brand overlap. Dodge could be for the smaller FF cars (i.e. the Neon and 500), with the Viper as the flagship. Ram can become a Jeep, maybe? That way, Jeep is nothing but the trucks and 4x4's.

 

[buickgnx88]

I don't think the Mopar crowd (if they could still be called that) would go for the Ram becoming a Jeep. It's too iconic to become something else. Besides, I know that Jeepers would rather have a Jeep truck based on the Wrangler (Gladiator concept anyone?).

 

[TheBook]

I don't think the Mopar crowd (if they could still be called that) would go for the Ram becoming a Jeep. It's too iconic to become something else. Besides, I know that Jeepers would rather have a Jeep truck based on the Wrangler (Gladiator concept anyone?).

I had thought about that too, but in my eye, I could see someone pointing to a group of Dodges and saying "here are our cars". Then (s)he points to a group of Jeeps and saying "here are our trucks". Put the Ram as a Dodge, and that gets all screwy. It is a bit hard to think of the Ram as a Jeep, but I think people might get used to it after a while.

 

[buickgnx88]

Of course, they would then need to remove the cuvs from Jeep, since they aren't "trucks", and as you say would get all screwy.

 

[Exorcet]

So what are Vipers going for new these days? I don't think they'll be getting many customers looking for a $60-80k luxory sedan for a while. Maybe once they begin to make a name for themselves again, their cars can come up to that level a bit.



Doing that, there'll be too much brand overlap. Dodge could be for the smaller FF cars (i.e. the Neon and 500), with the Viper as the flagship. Ram can become a Jeep, maybe? That way, Jeep is nothing but the trucks and 4x4's.

True, the Viper should be excluded from that price comparison. About $40-50K would mark an ideal lower bound on Chrysler pricing. Also, I'm talking more in the long term. Chrysler should have been at Cadilac/BMW level long ago. They're going to need to work to get their, but hopefully what I originally posted will be the result.

I don't see the overlap problem with Dodge/Chrysler if Chrysler moves up. There is overlap now, so it would be a problem in the current state. But if Fiat can help Chrysler up the ranks, it will work. Dodge would cover the low cost-average cost performance market(+ Viper supercar). Along with Charger/Challenger/Avenger they should have a "Miata" and "Corvette". Chrylser would start with an "M3" or "Carerra" (something like the Firepower with an actual name) and go up from there. No overlap.