The Group C Club!

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Layla's Keeper
Bite it. Seeing 30 (and the numbers are still climbing) closely regulated sports cars that can turn laps on par with an LMP2 all battling .....



I'd rather prefer quality than quantity (and yes, I love the sight of a 15 year old Jaguar/Sauber/Porsche....).... and btw, not in your dreams can a DP lap at the pace of a LMP2.... that why they pegged back (and then banned) the current GT2 cars (for fear of wining Daytona LOL)....

Sorry for the offtopic :) :)
 
Quality over quantity, always. Ever notice how many of those "close finishes" are a result of a BS yellow flag that happens to fall near the end of the race?

But back on-topic: Last night, I re-watched (for about the 50th time) my copy of Le Mans 1989 with the Radio Le Mans commentary. Just amazing to see a grid with names you would see at a world-class auto show: Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Aston Martin, Nissan, Toyota, Mazda. And seeing these cars blast down the Mulsanne straight at 250 mph/400 kph, no pansy chicanes to slow the speeds, simply awesome.

Something I've always wondered about is: considering the Joest Porsche was so competitive at Le Mans in 1989 (I'm sure they had a lot of factory help), that it led the race for a good while, had a few problems but finished third, how well could a full factory 962C have done? Perhaps they could have scored an upset win against their German rivals?
 
Gil Abobeleira
.... and btw, not in your dreams can a DP lap at the pace of a LMP2....

Well, perhaps the DPs could match the Van der Steur Lola LMP2 pace. ;) (Hopefully, that will change next year, as the rumour is they've purchased a new Lola B05/40.) But they certainly couldn't match the Intersport Lola or Porsche LMP2 pace.
 
I saw an add in racer magazine for an old nissan racecar. If only I had $395,000 I could own it two 800+hp engines... :drool:
 
I absolutely love Group C cars. with the high downforce and insane speeds they travel. and those low drag wings are slick too(though I question the Peugeot 905 a little). two questions from me:
One-Can I become a Member?

Two-I've looked at the Nissan R92CP(which I just aquired along with the Mazda 787B) and looked at the all dominent Nissan GTPs. given the development time and if GTP was still going, could the R92CP have competed in GTP?
 
Firstly, you're in.

And secondly, I'm not exactly sure if the R92Cp could've entered GTP, but I believe that it is very possible.
 
While the R92CP didn't compete in the GTP category, Nissan did bring over its predecessor - the R91CP - and in fact won the 1992 24 Hours of Daytona. It's still the overall distance record holder for the event.

Daytona-1992-02-02-023.jpg


In 1992, the year of the R92CP, the FIA was already sanctioning the new "Cat.1" cars, leaving the R92 to play in the JSPC. The IMSA GTP team used the NPT-91 to fight the TWR Jaguar XJR-14's and AAR Toyota Eagles.

Sebring-1992-03-21-084.jpg

Sebring-1992-03-21-099.jpg

Mid-Ohio-1992-05-31-002.jpg


By 1993, it was already shelved, while its American counterpart, the NPT-90, did battle with the all-conquering Toyota-Eagles of Dan Gurney's AAR team.

Mid-Ohio-1993-06-13-030.jpg

Mid-Ohio-1993-06-13-099.jpg


Could the R92CP have been a worthy competitor in the IMSA GTP ranks? Potentially. The other Lola chassis Nissans - as evidenced by successful runs at Daytona by the R90CK and R91CP - were certainly competitive, but their runs were one-offs done to ensure Le Mans invites, and the bulk of the GTP calendar was run by the ZXT and NPT designation IMSA cars. It's not that the car particularly needed development, it's that Nissan already had excellent GTP cars to use in championship hunts.
 
hey can i join please? I just got back into liking Group C sportscar, and only yesterday i installed the Prototype C mod for F1 Challenge '99-'02. In this mod I discovered a few lesser-known Group C machinery. For example, did u know the great Franz Konrad had a go at creating is own car? Oh yeah, he did. Here's a pic of the Konrad KM/011:

mexico199110060211iq.jpg


Walter Brun also had a go too. Check out his Brun C91:

bruncc9100124wa.jpg


Also, British car maker Allard got in on the act with their futuristic F1 look-a-like, the J2X:

allardth28el.jpg


And some of you may not know this, but Peugeot created an experimental Evo 2 version of their legendary 905 race car. As you can see, it was an ugly looking thing, but it was hugely aerodynamic:

SPACE FOR PIC WHEN I CAN FIND ONE. IF ANYONE DOES FIND ONE, PLEASE PM IT TO ME. THANKS!
 
Most of those cars were failures. The Konrad-Lamborghini I believe only attempted a few events without success, and the Allard J2X only ran a race or two in America. It attempted to run LeMans but was way off the pace.
 
nitro_2005
hey can i join please? I just got back into liking Group C sportscar, and only yesterday i installed the Prototype C mod for F1 Challenge '99-'02. In this mod I discovered a few lesser-known Group C machinery. For example, did u know the great Franz Konrad had a go at creating is own car? Oh yeah, he did. Here's a pic of the Konrad KM/011:

mexico199110060211iq.jpg


Walter Brun also had a go too. Check out his Brun C91:

bruncc9100124wa.jpg


Also, British car maker Allard got in on the act with their futuristic F1 look-a-like, the J2X:

allardth28el.jpg


And some of you may not know this, but Peugeot created an experimental Evo 2 version of their legendary 905 race car. As you can see, it was an ugly looking thing, but it was hugely aerodynamic:

SPACE FOR PIC WHEN I CAN FIND ONE. IF ANYONE DOES FIND ONE, PLEASE PM IT TO ME. THANKS!
thats amazing. I never knew that Franz Konrad built his own Car Nor Have I heard of Walter Brun. I believe The allard J2X a known car(though from what I've seen, lacks Winning a Record). Great Pics.👍
 
Walter Brun ran Porsche 956/962s during the Group C era. I believe his team won the championship one year. In 1990, they were running 2nd at Le Mans (and had fought the Jags most of the way), until the engine blew just 15 minutes from the end. I remember the driver walking away from the car, not even looking at it and basically collapsing in despair on the old signal wall just beyond Mulsanne corner.

As for the Allard, there's a great write-up about the car at www.mulsannescorner.com with a lot of photos. Apparently, Honda was looking at using the Allard (with one of their V10 F1 engines) for a run at the IMSA GTP championship, under the Acura brand.

Unfortunately, the car (in private hands) ran only one race in America, finishing 9th, way off the pace, at Laguna Seca in 1993.
 
i'm thinking of doing a Group C series using the Prototype C mod for EA Sports' F1 Challenge '99-'02. It's a great mod which covers 11 years of Group C Racing. It features 208 (yes 208!) cars and 23 tracks including Le Mans, Daytona, Sebring and the Nurburgring (the original downloads only feature the new GP circuit from '84-'94. The Nordschleife is available somewhere, but have yet to find it). Seeing as everyone here are Group C fans, i thought this an ideal place to post. Go to http://virtua-lm.com to get the mod. Trust me, it is awesome!!!!
 
torque998
Count me in. The Group C cars are some of my favorite cars in GT4. It's a shame I wasn't born in time to see these cars in action.

I know, man. I just missed the bus too. But its pretty cool to learn about them and sometimes even find them in vintage races.
 
I didn't know Group C cars raced at Watkins Glen. I thought it was just the WSC Prototypes of 97-00 (sommething like that.)
 
I don't think they did come to Watkins Glen. The IMSA Camel GTP (U.S. version of Group C) series did, but the Group C cars of the World Sportscar Championship, World Endurance Championship, World Sports Prototype Championship (or whatever name they went by) stayed away from the United States. Closest they came was a race in Mosport and Montreal and a race in Mexico City.
 
Mulsanne
I don't think they did come to Watkins Glen. The IMSA Camel GTP (U.S. version of Group C) series did, but the Group C cars of the World Sportscar Championship, World Endurance Championship, World Sports Prototype Championship (or whatever name they went by) stayed away from the United States. Closest they came was a race in Mosport and Montreal and a race in Mexico City.
well, there's a picture on that site from the link TheCracker put up that shows the Mercedes C-11 at Watkins Glen. That might be another track but look for yourself.
 
You're right, it is Watkins Glen, but they never raced there in the Group C era. I believe that car raced/races in the historics events every so often. The first photo in that group shows the car racing at a historics event at Daytona a few years ago (blew the right-rear tire on the banking :eek: ).

So, it is Watkins Glen, but it's during a historics race.

And still one of the best-looking Group C cars ever.
 
okay. I did notice the other car in the background behind.
 
I have no idea what Nitro_2005 was looking for in terms of the Peugeot 905, but there are two versions of it, one from ´91, and one from ´92. They do look pretty different.
This is the ´91: And this is the ´92:
I don´t know if the ´92 is what he refers to as "evo 2" though. That is the one in GT4.

And here is a car I don´t understand why they left out of GT4, since the manufacturer is present in the game;
Lancia LC2

Well, the chassis is Dallara, and the enginge a Ferrari, but the badge says Lancia!! Not very successfull at Le Mans, but a beautiful Group C racer!

Oh, by the way, can I join the Group C club?
 
Team666
I have no idea what Nitro_2005 was looking for in terms of the Peugeot 905, but there are two versions of it, one from ´91, and one from ´92. They do look pretty different.
This is the ´91:

And this is the ´92:

I don´t know if the ´92 is what he refers to as "evo 2" though. That is the one in GT4.

Well, let's talk about some facts about the 905.

It's first race was on the Montreal 480km on 1990 in the World Sportscar Championship. It was entered on the "new" C1 regulations, which completely ditched the fuel formula and was meant for sportscars with up to 3,5 littres (the same engine regulations as F1 at that time).

The first "variation" (the one in tou photo) was a complete pile of c.... (almost :sly: ). It was slow and unreliable. This, was the 905.

For the start of the 1991 season, Jaguar and Mercedes had also their 3,5l cars ready: the XJR14 (with Ford HB V8 Cosworth engine!) and the C291 (with a radical boxer 12 engine :scared: ) respectively. As for the Peugeot, althought much quicker than in 1990, it was again no match for the Jags and Saubers.
However, after the LM 1991, Peugeot brought the new Evo1, which was quicker, much quicker. In fact, the Evo1 and the 1992 Evo1 bis (it resembled a lot, and I mean a lot, the Evo1) were the fastest sportscars ever built (not even a Audi R8/Toyota GT-One/Benltey EXP8/Audi R10 could beat them on a normal circuit!).

As for the Evo2, it was first seen in public in the Donnigton round of the 1992 WSPC. Peugeot entered it again at Magny-Cours, at the LAST ROUND OF THE WORLD SPORTSCAR/ENDURANCE CHAMPIONSHIP (it had a history going back into 1953, and since 1992, there has been nothing like that :grumpy: :grumpy: ), were it proved that the cars was unsorted (it ate its rear tires much quicker). Peugeot then abandonned its development, after the cancelation of the WSPC and, for the LM1993, chose to develop even further the Evo1 Bis.

As for the Lancia, as well as the peugeots, download the Prototype-C mod from www.virtua-lm.com and you'll get them and many more :dopey:

PS: The performance of the peugeot at GT4 is a complete joke. it should trash the other sportscars around most of the tracks (except LM sans chicanes, that is, were the older but more powerful Group Cs would blast them), yet it has a lot worse acceleration and, shock horror, braking (it is a 750kg racecar with carbon brakes, while the other weight in the excess of 900 kg and should have stell brakes!).
 
Wow, thanks for the info!!

Although I can´t find a Pug 905 evo 2 at Donington in this list. It is present in practice at Magny Course, but thats all.
Was it just uncovered and not driven at Donington?

How come there are no pictures of it? I can´t find any!
 

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