The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread
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Dude, if people want to whine and cry, let them. A lot of what the people have to say in this thread are valid criticisms. Yes, you have the odd few that are straight bashing and clearly need some milk, but the vast majority are speaking the truth.
I mean, I love GT, but I can definitely see where a lot of the people in here are coming from.
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There's a logical counter-argument for not providing me with content that was advertised to be added in the future when I bought the product? Content that was pretty clearly defined, and as far as I know is still listed in the actual game itself?
I'd love to hear this one. The only logical "counter" argument that I can think of is Polyphony over-promised and under-delivered again, which is less of a counter argument and more of an accurate description of the current situation.
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McLaren
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That's funny. In the opposite of this thread, you supported it being a "GT Fan Safe Place" with no negativity, yet you're in here making remarks like this against folks sharing valid complaints.
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McLaren
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I'd like to know where Johnny was trolling that thread as well. As far as I'm seeing, his last few posts in it were challenging TD's exaggerated remarks alongside Slipz. And you even backed him up during it at one point.
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I like how you're spending all this time to take cheap shots and avoid the question instead of just spitting it out. I mean, did you really feel that it somehow makes you the bigger man to come in here and say "You're wrong but I'm not going to tell you how you're wrong"?
I'm not the one "trolling" your happy thread, go take your angst out on Johnny if you have to.
People on the internet sometimes...
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Okay, here goes... @Johnnypenso, forgive me since I got myself into this hot mess.I like how you're spending all this time to take cheap shots and avoid the question instead of just spitting it out. I mean, did you really feel that it somehow makes you the bigger man to come in here and say "You're wrong but I'm not going to tell you how you're wrong"?
I'm not the one "trolling" your happy thread, go take your angst out on Johnny if you have to.
People on the internet sometimes...
The VGT project is something that no game developer has ever tried before. The concept, as far as I understand, was that the VGT cars would be developed and released mostly after the game had already shipped, and if everything went smoothly, they would have been released monthly - the "monthly" DLC as mentioned by that Sony rep in the run up to GT6. However, as might be expected to happen with such a wild project, the program appears to have run into significant problems. What those problems were we may never know, but you know as well as I do that they wouldn't promise something and then intentionally under-deliver just to piss people off. It's bad for business.
That was before I realized what he was doing: trying to bring logic into a place where it wasn't welcome. He broke his promise concerning that.
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Uh, that's not trolling either. Are you claiming TD should have been allowed to make all those exaggerations & not be called out on them?
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Maybe trolling was a bit strong, but he knew exactly what he was doing, and he knew it wasn't welcome.
And I don't know if that's supposed to be a positive about the Epic Praising thread, either.
It wasn't meant to be positive or negative. Johnny said it himself - logic isn't welcome in this thread because it's meant as a place for people to vent their frustrations with the game and nothing more, so I think you'll agree that it stands to reason that logic also isn't really welcome in the EP&C thread either, since that's meant only as a place for people to express their positive opinions about the game without having to worry about negativity or criticism.
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How is that a counter-argument?
All I said was that we won't receive the rest of the VGTs unless we buy a PS4 and a copy of GTS. What in the above addresses that in any way?
I understand that the VGT program was something new. I actually thought that it was probably the most interesting thing about GT6, given that it became increasingly obvious that the course maker was a pipe dream. In practise, I would have liked to see Polyphony actually make sure that the cars were actually Gran Turismos as they were supposed to be, and not some GT cars, some race cars, and some wet dreams that a designer had one night. But hey, it was somewhat interesting at least.
I even understand that it can be tough working with other companies, although I'd have liked Polyphony to show a bit of backbone in this and provide the manufacturers some hard deadlines. I would have thought that the smart thing would be not to advertise any manufacturer as in the program until they'd actually submitted at least a basic workable design, because with 20+ manufacturers at least some of them were bound to bail out. But 🤬 happens.
What I don't like is that there's 11 more VGTs in the menu in GT6, and I won't see any of them. They're gonna be patched out, and Polyphony and Sony won't say a word. We'd never have heard about it if reporters hadn't asked Kaz specifically.
I think that's BS.
They made a promise to the people who bought GT6 to give them the rest of the VGT program. If they're not going to, then they could at the very least make a direct apology. What I definitely don't want to hear is that they're not doing it because it's hard and they want to put them in their new game. I paid my money for that program, or at least the portion of it that was advertised for inclusion with GT6, and I think it's horse bollocks that they get halfway through it and then say "yeah, if you want the rest of that you'll have to buy the next game too".
How about some :censored:ing respect for the people that paid their wages for the last three years and not throwing us under the bus without a word of apology just because the going got tough?
P.S. The monthly DLC was not the VGTs, it was specifically track DLC. The VGTs may or may not have been included in that. From memory there were at least a couple of occasions where two VGTs were released at different times within a month of each other. I suspect that they would have been spreading the releases out, even if there was only monthly patches containing the data.
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McLaren
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Do you mind quoting where he said that? I saw he said let people whine, but that doesn't mean be completely illogical about it.
As for the other thread, this is where the mess started.
Not only is this comment a negative one, it's not even about GT. You stood behind Johnny when he replied to this. TD replied & got called out for it.
For as much as you think Johnny might have been trolling, Tenacious wasn't exactly acting different in defense of GT.
Lastly, despite if Johnny said logic is not allowed, that would be his word, not the rule. In this forum, no thread gives you a safe haven to make claims and never be called out on them. Both of these threads would be boring without discussion.
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PD is the one who fronts the project and is the one who is (theoretically) in direct contact with the consumer. So yes, PD should apologize as well. Sure, the manufactures should apologize too, but the game is created by PD. You'd think that the most courteous thing they could do in this situation would be to at least say sorry about it.
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Read that again and then tell me that his actions in the EP&C thread don't smell of hypocrisy. Sure, he may not have started it, but he sure as heck didn't end it when he had the chance.
Like I said, that was before I realized Johnny's part in the discussion. Both of them had the power to end it, and both decided to keep it going until the mods stepped in.
Of course. Doesn't mean I don't think he's guilty of singing one tune and dancing to another.
(EDIT: Not that I have anything against Johnny, but I couldn't help but notice this, and I hate when people act hypocritically.)
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Emphasis mine. Whinging and Crying threads are not a haven for those who wish make inaccurate factual claims.
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Well... ****. You got me there. I'll admit defeat on that one. 👍
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You could also skip an entry in the series. Or wait before purchasing it. Getting released relatively quickly gives you the option to do that or purchase it on launch.
Wrong analogy. If I told you I'd get you a burger and fries, then got you fries and point to the burger joint and told you "making that burger took longer than I thought" - do you have a burger? Nope, you don't.
And if we were to talk about somewhat clever project management, I'd probably say to not start telling people you'd get them burgers until you actually know you can pull it off. I know my boss would end up kicking my butt for not ensuring I'm actually able to deliver burgers before announcing that I'd get him some.
In other words, don't announce stuff by putting previews in your game before knowing you can get it done. Preview what's close to being ready and leave it at that. Don't over-promise.
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I think it's ultimately Polyphony's game. So yes.
If Nissan has problems with parts of their cars, they don't say "take it up with the external supplier that made that part". They deal with it themselves and if restitution or apologies are necessary then they do that. It's their car, when they put their name on it and sell it it becomes their problem.
I can think of several times in the last couple of years that a company that I've worked for has been unable to supply product on time due to factors outside of our control. The manager in charge of that account calls them up, explains as much as is warranted or necessary about the problem, apologises, and tells the customer what the new plan will be. That is good customer service, and while customers are always disappointed that they can't have their product they appreciate us communicating with them in an honest manner. If their product simply didn't show up for a few days, or not at all, we would probably lose a lot of customers.
I think Polyphony went into the VGT project knowing that part of their content creation chain was reliant on other people delivering on time. That may or may not have been a good decision, but that's the one they made. It's then up to them to manage that. If the problems were due to other people then they could explain that if they want (although I wouldn't recommend it), but a mature and customer friendly company recognises that their customers have not had their needs met and deals with that in a forthright and clear manner. They communicate with the customer directly, explain the situation and what's going to happen, apologise for any hardship if necessary, and explain what if anything they're going to do to make the situation right.
Basically, the moment you take someone's money in return for a product or service it becomes your responsibility to make sure that product or service turns up and is of an appropriate quality. That's what you're being paid for. You can pass that responsibility on if you wish, with the permission of a third party. But ultimately you are responsible for a product that you made, no matter how many external suppliers may have contributed parts to it.
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So, if there's any lesson to be learned here, maybe it's this: if you're going to make a statement about logic, perhaps make sure the entire thing isn't predicated on a mis-remembered post.
We could even simplify: it's like getting up to the counter at the burger joint, selecting combo 3 (mmmm, bacon cheeseburger with fries and a milkshake), the cashier accepting your payment, and then telling you they're out of bacon. And cheese. And the milkshake machine's busted.
Maybe it's not the restaurant's fault that they were out of the food supplies: the delivery guy might've forgot them. Maybe it's not the restaurant's fault the machine's broken: there's a low quality piece the company that built it hasn't replaced. It doesn't matter, because at this point, the onus is on the restaurant to sort out the issue with a paying customer.
It's all about expectation management. I don't see anything wrong with PD continuing the VGT project on GTS... as a Part II, or v2.0, or whatever you'd prefer. But as is, the stuff advertised in GT6 is still very much incomplete.
We could even simplify: it's like getting up to the counter at the burger joint, selecting combo 3 (mmmm, bacon cheeseburger with fries and a milkshake), the cashier accepting your payment, and then telling you they're out of bacon. And cheese. And the milkshake machine's busted.
Maybe it's not the restaurant's fault that they were out of the food supplies: the delivery guy might've forgot them. Maybe it's not the restaurant's fault the machine's broken: there's a low quality piece the company that built it hasn't replaced. It doesn't matter, because at this point, the onus is on the restaurant to sort out the issue with a paying customer.
It's all about expectation management. I don't see anything wrong with PD continuing the VGT project on GTS... as a Part II, or v2.0, or whatever you'd prefer. But as is, the stuff advertised in GT6 is still very much incomplete.
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if based on this kind of mindset, can i conclude that PD doesnt even deliver what has been the promised new feature even before the launch on GT6?
there was a feature advertised as converting GPS data into a custom track. i still dont see it even after 3 years of Gt6.
source: https://www.gtplanet.net/gps/
https://www.gtplanet.net/gt6-course-maker-gps-data/
"Note: To clear up any confusion, there will be two separate GPS-enabled features in Gran Turismo 6 – this GPS Data Visualizer and the GPS Course Maker. "
"U.S. Gran Turismo producer Taku Imasaki confirmed the GPS Course Maker apps would work much like many fitness apps available, which record your run or walk by determining your altitude and relative location as you move. GT6 will then translate this data, turning it into a track you can drive in the game."
and for the VGT
its like i buy a cheese burger and new curl chips set combo, with advertise on new type of curl chips, but the waiter tell me, in order to get the curl chips, i need to buy another beef burger combo, after i bought the beef burger combo , i noticed the soft drinks wasnt given, then the waiter ask me to purchase another combo again, same goes for PD, VGT is set for GT6, they should had fulfill everything they promised by providing all the VGT cars listed in GT6. not pushing it to another title and expect people to pay full price, because i already paid the price to own the feature in gt6
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It is interesting the disconnect between GT4 and GT5 and up. I seem to recall when GT4's online component was pulled at the eleventh hour, the issue was met head on and Sony attempted to reconcile the loss of it. Everyone outside of Japan was given the shaft, but realistically there was only so much Sony could do to make up for the mess the online functionality had been making on GT4's development. Kaz even headed off the US release by attempting (poorly, but the effort was sincere) to explain why it was dropped.
In comparison, GT PSP was a complete disaster from start to finish.
GT5 Prologue was sold with being able to transfer cars from the game into GT5 proper as a major bullet point. GT5 comes out? Nothing, like it never even happened. All the more flagrant because it was left up on the GT site for a couple years after GT5 released, and Kaz spent the first year apologizing for seemingly everything else about GT5.
Then there's 6's messes, that are near infamy now since PD went completely silent about every one of them. VGT delays, the course maker turning into such a fiasco, monthly "Quantum Leap" in DLC, etc.
In comparison, GT PSP was a complete disaster from start to finish.
GT5 Prologue was sold with being able to transfer cars from the game into GT5 proper as a major bullet point. GT5 comes out? Nothing, like it never even happened. All the more flagrant because it was left up on the GT site for a couple years after GT5 released, and Kaz spent the first year apologizing for seemingly everything else about GT5.
Then there's 6's messes, that are near infamy now since PD went completely silent about every one of them. VGT delays, the course maker turning into such a fiasco, monthly "Quantum Leap" in DLC, etc.
syntex123
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Okay maybe not a full year but you get my idea here guys, don't push out a game before fans have played most of the last game, that'd confuse them, not make them hyped. @McLaren @Samus
Problem with that, @Luminis, is that the fans that always will get the game day 1 won't be able to, and that sucks for them, right? :3
Problem with that, @Luminis, is that the fans that always will get the game day 1 won't be able to, and that sucks for them, right? :3
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