The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[mister dog]

IMO, it doesn't, GTP regulars are too few, the vocal ones like you I mean, about 10 to 20 people, that's too small of a sample.

You don't have to be a regular to voice your opinion in either this thread or the praising one.
There's more than enough different people in these 36 pages to provide a decent sample IMO.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

You don't have to be a regular to voice your opinion in either this thread or the praising one.
There's more than enough different people in these 36 pages to provide a decent sample IMO.

They are still too few, anyway, not matter how people spin this, I still think it's not representative of how outside of GTP view racing games like GT, Pcars or AC. Even my high school mates and some of my college buddies from Australia, Japan and US still plays GT6, none of them are on GTP, some never heard of it They just play and never bother to read forums or do what some of members here do, years of posting same thing, either praising or complaining about games. There are lot more of casuals than we might think.

 

[mister dog]

I'd state the elite is representative for the casuals now, but looking at politics i better not

 

[Imari]

We are still representative, when people do opinion polls or surveys they also interview a minority of folk compared to everyone that's out there. It still provides a good insight over the general consensus.

Not really. Good polls don't let people self-select.

We are a chosen community of driving game enthusiasts. We can reasonably be expected to have a different opinion to Joe Public.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'd state the elite is representative for the casuals now, but looking at politics i better not

People called me elitists back in GT5 when I campaigned no ABS, I was literally the only one do that in GTP, imagine how small I felt I understand the situation back then, even little things like brake assist can turn casuals into army

 

[FoRiZon]

I grab some comments on the news and indeed theres a line between these criticism:

I’ll give the series(and Kaz) a chance to make this a decent game. However, I prefer the way the games have been set up in the past as far as the race series are concerned. Personally, I’m not a fan of racing against other people online. If I want to play against someone, I’ll hook up a second controller. Who knows, maybe I’m the exception and most people do want to play online and that’s fine as well. My point is that the game needs to have Career Mode for me and for those who prefer the Online races as well. Without both aspects, Gran Turismo will be officially dead to me and to others.
It would be a real shame, especially since I’ve been with this franchise for so long, I don’t really want to leave, but if PD wants to take it in a different route, I will.
However, PD needs to make all the other GT titles playable on the PS4. This way, those of us who don’t move on with the franchise can play the way we want to.

This is now even more confusing. I don’t see how the “Sport mode” just makes the whole game completely different from the other 6 GT games. Kaz is confusing himself by trying to make a game that proceeds GT6, but he’s also trying to make a game that isn’t supposed to really fit into the rest of the series. This is even more unorganized than it was before he made this announcement. Come November, the game is probably going to be just as scrambled as Kaz is

“The game keeps improving daily” and “it’s clear Yamauchi wishes to keep improving the title before it releases officially” is actually something I was taking for granted but apparently it’s “news”. This has me a little concerned. If what has been shown doesn’t at least in some way represent what will be delivered on release day then why show us anything at all?

And these:

Here is the paradox that is Gran Turismo: The series needs a reboot, right? You can’t call it GT7 without it sounding incredibly stale and boring. So they decided to call it GT Sport. Ok, fine. But the real problem is that the reboot should occur at Polyphony. Kaz should be rebooted. Scratch that. Just booted.

As usual, Kazunori talking more hogwash. GT is a failed franchise and needs to drop dead already.

Forza is here, and with the introduction of a new Forza game in addition to Horizon and Motorsport, GT just doesn’t stand a chance… even on a PS5!

Suuuuuuure. Only to release the real GT7 in 2019 or something…

I totally don’t care about this competitive online FIA championship stuff nor the 1000 landscape screenshots with car layers. Project CARS currently fulfills my needs for sim racing and Assetto Corsa will add up to that in the very near future. Greetings Kaz, from a former GT5 & GT6 player.

Names are omitted.

 

[Johnnypenso]

People called me elitists back in GT5 when I campaigned no ABS, I was literally the only one do that in GTP, imagine how small I felt I understand the situation back then, even little things like brake assist can turn casuals into army

No you weren't, far from it. You were the only one in FITT that campaigned for it.

 

[Haulin_Hebrew]

There's flaws in there for sure so you can't call it a proper sim ( same with Forza), but i think it is quite an enjoyable drive overall. At least it was the last time i tried it years ago.

@mister dog Please elaborate what A "Proper" Sim is. Then elaborate how GT and Forza Motorsport fail to meet that description.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

No you weren't, far from it. You were the only one in FITT that campaigned for it.

I'm not a FITT member, never was. There's no membership or anything. Could you point someone here in GTP that plays exclusively without ABS in GT6 ? That means, never use ABS. Most of no ABS drivers ( the few of them ) in GT5 have gone ( inactive ), either they don't play GT6 or have played other games.

Back in GT5, I don't have tuning garage.

 

[JulesDennis]

I cant speak for @mister dog but I can tell you that a proper sim,is a game that simulates (as well as it can be done) real life racing.Things like tyre physics,car behavior-physics,track conditions and how are effected by time,weather changes ext are some examples.
And honestly you cannot say that Forza or GT are as good as they need to be in terms of these examples to be called "simulators".Or you can say that they try to do so but concidering what other games/studios have done,they come sort.

 

[freedom1104]

I'm not a FITT member, never was. There's no membership or anything. Could you point someone here in GTP that plays exclusively without ABS in GT6 ? That means, never use ABS. Most of no ABS drivers ( the few of them ) in GT5 have gone ( inactive ), either they don't play GT6 or have played other games.

Back in GT5, I don't have tuning garage.

can i raise my hand if im one of the players who never bother with abs? Me and my friends always play crazy stuff like stock cappucino round eiger with all assist off and 100% wet. Another time was 100% wet all assist off on nordschleife midnight with RUF CTR. there are also times we set up timeattack round tsukuba within our own group driving stock evo9 and civic type r 07 without abs.

 

[Obelisk]

I cant speak for @mister dog but I can tell you that a proper sim,is a game that simulates (as well as it can be done) real life racing.Things like tyre physics,car behavior-physics,track conditions and how are effected by time,weather changes ext are some examples.
And honestly you cannot say that Forza or GT are as good as they need to be in terms of these examples to be called "simulators".Or you can say that they try to do so but concidering what other games/studios have done,they come sort.

Then justify how people can transition from GT to real world racing. GT Academy, as much of a Nissan-sponsor thing as it was, actually did prove that gamers could transition into real racing from a game with - using your words here - physics that "come short".

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Having less sim qualities do not make one game less proper sim than the other. In 10 years or 20 years time, the current PC sim games would be archaic in comparison, should these archaic games be called improper sim or broken ?

I still view Sega F355 Challenge as a good sim game, even today, it has unique qualities to it that gives special driving experience on deluxe cabinet with h gate shifter, clutch and race seats. Comparing it to LFS would make F355 lack in details of simulation like tire model, but it doesn't make it not proper sim.

 

[freedom1104]

Having less sim qualities do not make one game less proper sim than the other. In 10 years or 20 years time, the current PC sim games would be archaic in comparison, should these archaic games be called improper sim or broken ?

I still view Sega F355 Challenge as a good sim game, even today, it has unique qualities to it that gives special driving experience on deluxe cabinet with h gate shifter, clutch and race seats. Comparing it to LFS would make F355 lack in details of simulation like tire model, but it doesn't make it not proper sim.

I still regard rfactor 1 as proper sim

 

[mister dog]

@mister dog Please elaborate what A "Proper" Sim is. Then elaborate how GT and Forza Motorsport fail to meet that description.

Does GT simulate things like tyre pressures and fuel loads already? And the examples @JulesDennis gave are pretty valid too. That's just the physics part, you also have the format which (up until now), lacked proper endurance racing, qualifying sessions, standing starts, a damage system... Then there's the unrealistic behavior with regards to the engine layout, or when you drove over grass or gravel, clutch not properly simulated, there's wasn't any torque steer... Need i say more?

Then justify how people can transition from GT to real world racing. GT Academy, as much of a Nissan-sponsor thing as it was, actually did prove that gamers could transition into real racing from a game with - using your words here - physics that "come short".

Because they know how to take a corner, and use the throttle and brakes properly. That doesn't make the title a 'simulation'.

 

[Samus]

Then justify how people can transition from GT to real world racing. GT Academy, as much of a Nissan-sponsor thing as it was, actually did prove that gamers could transition into real racing from a game with - using your words here - physics that "come short".

Certainly not by driving the way they did in the game. Every year the fastest drivers have exploited flaws in the physics engine to be fast, sliding round corners and abusing the downshifts.

GT is realistic enough to find people who are generally fast but it's the real life boot camp that truly found those who had what it takes, not the game.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Then justify how people can transition from GT to real world racing. GT Academy, as much of a Nissan-sponsor thing as it was, actually did prove that gamers could transition into real racing from a game with - using your words here - physics that "come short".

You don't think GT is the only game they were playing do you?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Every game has weakness or flaws, AC, Rfactor, PCars are not immune. How about brake fade in AC ? or accurate AWD system on R34 GTR ? or proper DGCS feature on FD3S RX7 which Kunos claim "active steering" ? The DGCS is suspension design feature. I would rather devs work on the accuracy of data and simulated parts of the car, making sure what's simulated works 100%, before adding more stuff being simulated.

And exploiting physics will happen in every game, they are coded, and codes are not perfect. Pcars camber is good example, I have been told about it since a year before Pcars release, it has never been fixed even today.

You don't think GT is the only game they were playing do you?

Did Jann played other games than GT before he won GTA ?

 

[mister dog]

Every game has weakness or flaws, AC, Rfactor, PCars are not immune. How about brake fade in AC ? or accurate AWD system on R34 GTR ? or proper DGCS feature on FD3S RX7 which Kunos claim "active steering" ?

And exploiting physics will happen in every game, they are coded, and codes are not perfect. Pcars camber is good example, I have been told about it since a year before Pcars release, it has never been fixed even today

Sims evolving every year is true, and so is the fact that every racing game has certain flaws so you can never call any of them 'the uber simulation'.

But try GT or Forza and then go for a run in AC and you will notice the difference immediately.

 

[JulesDennis]

Then justify how people can transition from GT to real world racing. GT Academy, as much of a Nissan-sponsor thing as it was, actually did prove that gamers could transition into real racing from a game with - using your words here - physics that "come short".

Those same guys could actually go over to GT Academy without playing the game(for example) and ending up driving as pros in real life.Or became real pros without playing any kind of game.Because this program get some students from a game,does not mean that the game is a "simulator".If that was the case,then there is no need for any Academy.
GT Academy gets the best of the gamers and SOME of them manage to graduate and became pros.Thats the success of the program and not the game's success.
When you hear about those guys in real races the commentators say that this program is so good that creates race drivers out of gamers.This is the way it works and not the other way around.
With that said,what you can call as a "sim" racing game has nothing to do with GT Academy.If that was the case,then AC fails as a sim racing game because GT Academy does not take players from them (even though those guys create the simulators used by Ferrari and Porsche with the latest deal they did) for example.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Sims evolving every year is true, and so is the fact that every racing game has certain flaws so you can never call any of them 'the uber simulation'.

But try GT or Forza and then go for a run in AC and you will notice the difference immediately.

Every game will be different of course, I played LFS on my laptop, so I know how different GT6 to LFS, and AC will be like so. A properly setup car in game can get the difference closer in terms of driving experience ( car behavior/handling ) - depending on the games being compared though . Here's an example :

@Ridox2JZGTE I just tried your Ayrton Senna tribute Acura NSX and I am seriously impressed. I have been getting less enjoyment from GT6 ever since I started playing PC sims 2 years ago, because all of the cars just feels wrong to me. But after applying your tune it completely transformed the feel of the car. I would say it gives Niels NSX in rFactor 1 and the mod NSX in Assetto Corsa a run for their money! When pushed hard the deficiencies in GT's tire and suspension modelling still shows, but if you just drive it at 90% it is very realistic and believable. I drove it at Suzuka and I was completely on the edge at Spoon 1, with my steering and throttle stabs just like Senna's It was fantastic and thank you for restoring my faith in this game 👍 I will definitely check out the rest of your tunes. Should keep me busy until GTS later in the year

PS: With regards to your tuning approach, do you input exact real life numbers into the settings, or you used whatever means necessary to make it handle like the real car, even if you have to fudge the numbers? Also, interesting use of ballast to make the weight distribution more accurate. I thought that's going to make the handling worse (because of more rear bias), but somehow your suspension magic makes it handle better. I can't believe PD completely mucked up the stock specs for the NSX. Do the GT community a favour and apply to PD as Lead Physics Engineer please?

The Huayra is perfect Ridox I am very familiar with this car because it's my control car (drove it after every update, just to see if PD changes any physics). Tuned to 650 PP my Huayra on SS can do 2.06 at Ascari previously. With your tuning it goes 2.04 in the first lap. So much easier to drive on the limit 👍
Also re-tested the Aventador, with more rear bias it's a lot more stable surprisingly. Guess you need that weight for traction after all. The Car & Driver specs feel closest to AC for me. Using OHLINS setup (not AC suspension), low preload and Corsa dampers. Only thing that's off is braking is a bit weak in GT6, so I bumped up BB to 4/5 and it's bang on. I did 1.40 in AC and 1.38 in GT6, which is what you expect with the physics. Top job 👍 snip...

Not saying GT6 is on the level as AC, but it's not far off when one put work on it, it just needs good tire model and all the physics glitch fixed.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm not a FITT member, never was. There's no membership or anything. Could you point someone here in GTP that plays exclusively without ABS in GT6 ? That means, never use ABS. Most of no ABS drivers ( the few of them ) in GT5 have gone ( inactive ), either they don't play GT6 or have played other games.

Back in GT5, I don't have tuning garage.

Didn't say you were a FITT member.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...thout-abs-please-read-op.267564/#post-7779752

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Didn't say you were a FITT member.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...thout-abs-please-read-op.267564/#post-7779752

Which post says that I am a member ?

I may have been in a FITT event as a tuner, but that does not qualify me as member. I think there's a member list for FITT in GT5, my name was not there.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Found it :

I have been researching this secret tuning cult for a while. Here is a very official and very anchient member list I have uncovered:

FITT Council and Competition Committee Members

Founder
XDesperado67 | PSN: XDesperado67

Thread Admin
DigitalBaka | PSN: DigitalBaka, GTP_DigitalBaka

FAQ Editor
krenkme | PSN: krenkme

Event Sponsors
CSLACR | PSN: CSLACR, GTP_CSL
CyKosis1973 | PSN: CyKosis1973
DigitalBaka | PSN: DigitalBaka, GTP_DigitalBaka
MotorCityHami | PSN: MotorCtyHamilton
NascarManiaco99 | PSN: GTP_Michelin9960
nomis3613 | PSN: nomis3613
XDesperado67 | PSN: XDesperado67

Car Hosts
DigitalBaka | PSN: DigitalBaka, GTP_DigitalBaka
Onboy123 | PSN: Onboy123
praiano63 | PSN: praiano63
tris_73 | PSN: TRIS_73
VTiRoj | PSN: RoJJiE, VTiRoj
XDesperado67 | PSN: XDesperado67

Tuners & Drivers
ACSR421 | PSN: ACSR421
CSLACR | PSN: CSLACR, GTP_CSL
CyKosis1973 | PSN: CyKosis1973
C-ZETA | PSN: V16T91
DigitalBaka | PSN: DigitalBaka, GTP_DigitalBaka
dr_slump | PSN: the_dr_slump
Dylans1o | PSN: dylan_95_09
GoSpeedGo88 | PSN: GoSpeedGo88
krenkme | PSN: krenkme
MotorCityHami | PSN: MotorCtyHamilton
NEWDRIVER2 | PSN: OTS_NEWDRIVER2, GTP_NEWDRIVER2
Onboy123 | PSN: Onboy123
praiano63 | PSN: praiano63
Ronald6 | PSN: GTP_Ronald
trackripper123 | PSN: Ziz528
tris_73 | PSN: TRIS_73
VTiRoj | PSN: RoJJiE, VTiRoj
XDesperado67 | PSN: XDesperado67
Zuel | PSN: GTP_Striker

Honorary Members
Princess Kate (and sister) | Graphics Design

Members on Hiatus
Dragonthing
GfxJG
Indy_Racerfan
Jackthalad
Johnnypenso
LexSombra
-raVer-
madmyk
Milldrum
TimberW
zero_speed

I see your name is in there @Johnnypenso, member on hiatus

 

[Johnnypenso]

Which post says that I am a member ?

I may have been in a FITT event as a tuner, but that does not qualify me as member. I think there's a member list for FITT in GT5, my name was not there.

Again, didn't say you were a member. You were in FITT as a tuner and thats the only place i recall you being "alone" in campaigning for a no ABS event. Above you said you were the only one in GT5 that campaigned for no ABS. The link shows that isn't true. The biggest campaigner in GT5 that I recall was the OP of that guide to no ABS tuning and driving for GT5.

 

[Samus]

Every game has weakness or flaws, AC, Rfactor, PCars are not immune. How about brake fade in AC ? or accurate AWD system on R34 GTR ? or proper DGCS feature on FD3S RX7 which Kunos claim "active steering" ? The DGCS is suspension design feature. I would rather devs work on the accuracy of data and simulated parts of the car, making sure what's simulated works 100%, before adding more stuff being simulated.

And exploiting physics will happen in every game, they are coded, and codes are not perfect. Pcars camber is good example, I have been told about it since a year before Pcars release, it has never been fixed even today.

Yes I wouldn't disagree with that hence the point I was trying to make was that naturally fast guys will be fast on any game as long as it is relatively realistic, the cream will always rise to the top. Project Gotham was a long, long way from being a sim but I remember back then the fastest guys in that were the same guys from sim racers, TCR guys and such.They will learn the nuances of the game, find any exploits and use their natural skills to reach the top.

The overall point being the game used to find a potential real life fast driver doesn't really lend any validity into how realistic a sim it is. Hence "How can GT not be a good sim if it helped make real racing drivers" is a null point. PGR would have found the same top drivers.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Again, didn't say you were a member. You were in FITT as a tuner and thats the only place i recall you being "alone" in campaigning for a no ABS event. Above you said you were the only one in GT5 that campaigned for no ABS. The link shows that isn't true. The biggest campaigner in GT5 that I recall was the OP of that guide to no ABS tuning and driving for GT5.

Wrote a guide is the biggest campaigner ? I got grilled for posting no ABS topics, obviously you haven't read my posts on other threads in GT5 about no ABS. Even mod have to stepped in if I recalled, a member here barra33 or something got mad at me. I actively posting no ABS stuff back then, there's no one else did that on several different threads over a period of time ( almost daily - TT threads, question/tuning threads ), until I got flak with elitists name calling. The OP of that guide never did that I suppose.

@GTP_CargoRatt was there, maybe he remembers some of it ?

No you weren't, far from it. You were the only one in FITT that campaigned for it.

You said in FITT, that sounds like saying I'm a FITT member

My point was that I was the only one got called elitist because I was posting about no ABS too often that makes people angry.

Yes I wouldn't disagree with that hence the point I was trying to make was that naturally fast guys will be fast on any game as long as it is relatively realistic, the cream will always rise to the top. Project Gotham was a long, long way from being a sim but I remember back then the fastest guys in that were the same guys from sim racers, TCR guys and such.They will learn the nuances of the game, find any exploits and use their natural skills to reach the top.

The overall point being the game used to find a potential real life fast driver doesn't really lend any validity into how realistic a sim it is. Hence "How can GT not be a good sim if it helped make real racing drivers" is a null point. PGR would have found the same top drivers.

Different games would still attract the same people to compete

 

[Samus]

Different games would still attract the same people to compete

Not entirely sure what that means in relation to what I said.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Not entirely sure what that means in relation to what I said.

Just adding, GTA could be replaced by AC or Pcars, and old faces from TRL or other alien team will still be there

 

[Samus]

Just adding, GTA could be replaced by AC or Pcars, and old faces from TRL or other alien team will still be there

Ah gotcha, yes that is what I'm saying. You can't point to GT being a great sim based solely on it finding the fast drivers that become real racing drivers. Any game will do that, it's only when you put them in a real car do you find out if they've truly got what it takes.