The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread
- Thread starter ukfan758
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- Neomone
Honestly, at the time no one believed that they would use cars from PS2 completely unaltered. Including me. It was very far from the sort of thing Polyphony of old would do.
It only became weird after release. At which point you had people pointing out what a dodgy way of hitting a big number it was, and other people claiming it was fine and you could hardly tell the difference.
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- hypershock12
I'm sorry, but who ever thought that back then or now is a complete numpty. I don't personally have that much of an issue with the standard cars as some of them are among the best cars in the game. But to say that you could hardly tell the difference is just wrong. From far away maybe but up close you can very clearly see the jagged edges and pixelated textures and extremely smooth/shiny surfaces.
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- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Do you disagree?
- 87
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- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Just an observation, no statistics or anything. You can go to any thread(besides this one obviously) and find more people for something than against it for the most part, in my opinion. The problem is, much like @trustjab mentioned, the negative stands out much more compared to the positive.
I, myself, don't feel outnumbered. It was just to point out the there are more positive opinions flowing around, than negative. It just often get's associated that if you're negative, you're only intention is that you're here to spread blind hate, not going to buy the game, and you're just trying to start fights, which isn't the case. There are aspects of the game that I don't like and I voice my opinion, but I'm very much purchasing this game.
- 40,770
Which is why the people who claimed that would take Photomode pics of even the most obviously poor ones (like the Diablo GT) in deliberately chosen angles and lighting to "prove" it.
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- Neomone
Of course. But people aren't always entirely rational when talking about things that they feel personally attached to. If you go back and look at posts from users like Tenacious D and Zer0 you'll find all sorts hilarious attempts to justify every decision that Polyphony ever made. There are people for whom objectivity simply isn't possible because they feel that any slight on "their" product is also a personal slight against them.
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- FredzyN2
The GT Sport beta disappointed me in a way that I couldn't have anticipated. The dramatic changes in how the game felt between updates - simmy one day and then arcadey then next, back and forth - it tainted GT for me.
I understand the nature of a beta. Its purpose is to test, find what works and what doesn't. But this exposed the heart of the game to me and I didn't like what I saw. I expected PD to have a nailed-down physics model by now. As close to reality as possible, the word of God, recorded in stone, gospel. y = f(x). Physics only works one way in reality. There are many variables to play with, but in the end, the function you plug them into should always be the same. The output should be consistent and predictable (at least once you're used to it.) Ideally it would agree with reality. Any aids should be in the form of simulated vehicle driving aid functions - traction control, stability control etc, which should be clearly either on or off. This didn't seem the case in GTS beta, which was all over the place.
Whether they were testing different physics models all together or tweaking core components of it, the outcome is that I'm not confident that the final product will be representative of reality. There were invisible hands helping, bizarre friction behavior sometimes. Different behavior when using a wheel vs. controller. Consider also the blanket base tuning setups and the continuation of what I'll call "GT-style" tuning, where stock tunes are totally useless and heavy tuning is necessary to be competitive. This is all ugly to me, and I ain't got time fo dat.
It's clear that PD are willing to compromise the physics outcomes of GTS to broaden appeal. I want GT to be successful, and this might be the right way to get there. It's just not for me any more. (Thanks a lot, Kunos.)
I understand the nature of a beta. Its purpose is to test, find what works and what doesn't. But this exposed the heart of the game to me and I didn't like what I saw. I expected PD to have a nailed-down physics model by now. As close to reality as possible, the word of God, recorded in stone, gospel. y = f(x). Physics only works one way in reality. There are many variables to play with, but in the end, the function you plug them into should always be the same. The output should be consistent and predictable (at least once you're used to it.) Ideally it would agree with reality. Any aids should be in the form of simulated vehicle driving aid functions - traction control, stability control etc, which should be clearly either on or off. This didn't seem the case in GTS beta, which was all over the place.
Whether they were testing different physics models all together or tweaking core components of it, the outcome is that I'm not confident that the final product will be representative of reality. There were invisible hands helping, bizarre friction behavior sometimes. Different behavior when using a wheel vs. controller. Consider also the blanket base tuning setups and the continuation of what I'll call "GT-style" tuning, where stock tunes are totally useless and heavy tuning is necessary to be competitive. This is all ugly to me, and I ain't got time fo dat.
It's clear that PD are willing to compromise the physics outcomes of GTS to broaden appeal. I want GT to be successful, and this might be the right way to get there. It's just not for me any more. (Thanks a lot, Kunos.)
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- 14,435
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- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I think the problem is that if you were looking for a game that was going to simulate physics to a higher degree than some of those dedicated sims on the market, GT, nor GTS was never going to be that game. It sits at a comfortable level with Forza under those other sims. Not demanding, but also not too easy at times, but accessible to many. The one thing I agree with though, is the helping hand you mention, I haven't played it yet but I've read about it.
As for the different feeling between Wheel and Controller, that's kind of a given. Pad users always get dampening to make the transition from lock to lock easier and not so exact. It's not running on a 1:1 ratio, and that's a good thing I think. If you've tried Forza's Simulation mode, it basically gives you a 1:1 ratio and it does not feel realistic at all. Where as, wheel users have these hidden aids removed.
When I played GT, I was never good at tuning my own cars, so I can't really say much on that aspect of the game. As for tuning giving people that competitive edge, that makes sense. Why wouldn't it?
I don't necessarily think they compromised the physics, as this seems to flow with their games in the past. I've read around that things have actually progressed, but they want to keep that accessibility that they've always had, I'm sure.
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- hypershock12
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- FredzyN2
After basically converting to AC, I was still able to enjoy driving in GT6. I was a lot less likely to hot-lap for fun, but everything was there. I described AC as an HD version of GT6 from a physics perspective. Mostly the same, just sharper. It was pretty easy to go back and forth. GT Sport wasn't the same. GTS's reality curve seemed to fall off a cliff as you approached the limit. This meant throwing away some good driving habits to compete in the beta, and then not letting the bad habits stick going back to AC. Again, not something I felt with GT6. I expect that much or better from GTS. We'll see what they do.
My true biggest failed expectation has to do with the cars themselves, which I'll elaborate on below.
I'm all for the game interpreting pad inputs, or even interpolating to a degree to help mitigate inherent deficiencies vs. a wheel. That's something GT has always done really well! People were noting that they were having trouble matching their pad times with a wheel. I decided to test this, and sure enough, I was able to match my wheel times with some pretty sloppy pad work. Re-topping that time with the wheel was then quite hard. I became convinced that there were some artificial aids or handicaps at play. Which would be bogus.
Of course tuning is a legit means to gain an edge. But GT is ridiculous. Cars usually get some generic default tune. Fast tunes don't usually look like default. Sometimes a super fast tune is so out there, you wonder how anyone ever figured out that setting it up this way was so fast?!? Talking about accessibility, nothing about this is conducive to that. This first hit me with GT5. Back then I even wondered if I was dealing with hackers.
They were so much faster, all else apparently being equal. That pushed me away from online play until GT6, when quick match with fixed setups became a thing and I was able to do as well as I expected I could. Only after that did I really work to understand GT's tuning. Like you, I mostly just looked up good tunes here. 👍 Contrast all this with AC, where most cars have a pretty optimal stock tune that was clearly honed by the developer. What tuning you're able to do can help tailor a car to your driving style, but you won't find seconds in some suspension tweaks and transmission tricks. You spend more time driving and a lot less time wondering "is it me, or the car?"The beauty of GTS's cars really does feel skin deep because of this. How much detail really went into their dynamic design when they all have those same settings? And if they were trying to replicate the real-world character of a car in any way, that was futile, because if you want to be competitive you're going to butcher that character with tuning. They might as well call cars "skins." I get that this sounds like sim-racer pedantry but this kind of detail was always what GT was about. I see no advantage in omitting it aside from saving man-hours on properly researching and configuring each car.
I like to think what you said here is right, I just hope they're careful and transparent with artificial aids.
Ameer67
Premium
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Let's see how Polyphony's first title on a four-year-old console is looking so far...
*Don't know how accurate the last bullet point is, but the wording is pretty confusing in their statement:
- Internet connection required for most functionality.
- 150 cars with plenty of duplicates.
- 17 locations (6 real world tracks, with only one of them being new to the series.)
- A long list of license tests AKA "Campaign Mode"
- A restricted arcade mode that requires people to have PS+ if they want to unlock the whole thing.*
*Don't know how accurate the last bullet point is, but the wording is pretty confusing in their statement:
So come up with your own conclusion I suppose.
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- 37
- UK
Again?
PCars 1 was a broken mess that gamers deserted in short order. Thankfully Assetto Corsa arrived and (after some much needed updates) delivered the kind of physics first experience PCars promised, but never delivered. I very much hope PCars 2 delivers, but I'll be waiting for reviews, and most importantly, feedback from fellow sim racers to see if the bugs and inconsistencies have been ironed out.
What Assetto Corsa proved to me is a more focused, high quality approach, is preferable over throwing everything but the kitchen sink at a game. That's why I'm hopefully about GTS, I want to see the title grow and strengthen the sim racing community on PS4 over the next 2-3yrs. So many hyped up titles come and go within 6 months, none more so than in the driving genre. Of course the usual answer is to pump out another sequel with ever diminishing returns.
Castrol96
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- SpacedustDaddy
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Agree with both these points but the rest seems to be just focusing on the negatives. They also used that time to
- Introduce a Livery editor
- greatly expand photomode and add Scapes
- Overhaul the online aspect
- Overhaul and greatly improve the sounds
- Improve the AI and the physics
I could go on. I understand each and everyone of the concerns but I honestly thing that GTSport is such a superior game to its predecessors that I'm happy they took their time.
Tired Tyres
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Except the operating cost of PD, worked out at 12 million a year during GT5 development, now with inflation and a bigger development team it will be rather a lot higher. They now have sell a title that is focused on the two least popular areas of race games. Esports and online. Good look with that.
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If they play cards right and it works -- they'll have great success. I honestly have no idea how successful their implementation will be, but I've been very optimistic since the beta.
Tired Tyres
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I played the Beta as well. Funny how you can be optimistic whilst I am being pessimistic. I hope you are right. I suspect I will be right.
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- Neomone
At this rate, GTS isn't going to get enjoyed at all. My enthusiasm to give them money for this "game" is severely tempered at the moment. Frankly, GTS is a LONG way down the list of games that I'd consider spending money on, even when only considering racing games.
Everything apart from Scapes is them simply catching up with the competition. Scapes are awesome, but they're also a very niche feature and in many ways limited compared to photomodes of the past.
I don't think in 2017 you get brownie points for having a livery editor in a AAA game. Or for having sound or AI that doesn't suck. That's part of the expectation of producing a quality product.
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It is nice to see optimism in pessimism.
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Wishful thinking. PCARS did massive damage to the brand with its buggy release and poor controller support.
There's nothing classic GT about Forza unless all you saw in classic GT was there being a large number of cars and tracks.
Where did you get this number from lol
A lie.
- GTS livery editor in one of the best if not the best in the genre
- Graphics are as usual the best.
- Sound has certain improvements over competitors.
- Driver and Sportsmanship rating is something only one other game has on console and its just releasing.
- Scapes is revolutionary. Much like how GT made photomode that was then implemented in many other games, this is the next step to those rendered background modes.
- FIA licensed cups, a first for the genre.
As expected, the handful of usual suspects are trying their hardest at downplaying GTS
Scaff
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Similar issues were raised at GT5, I'm sure you will see that differently however.
While it certainly may put some off, they have as a studio gone out of the way to address those concerns.
Heavy road cars presence, take a road car and build it into a race car via an in depth and detailed parts upgrade system, with a heavy focus on car collecting.
All sounds very similar.
Aside from graphics and scapes these are not unique or even firsts.
Sega GT had a photo more before GT did, the livery editor may be on par with others but we don't yet know that. Sounds are catching up, they are better but certainly not improved over the best in the market.
DR and SR as you say will not even be the first, and both on console have taken it from another title as a base concept.
The FIA have also approved and licenced it's brands to an eSports category for two years, and about to enter a third with WRC, and we had the F1 eSports announced in August.
These would both require FIA licence approval to even exist. GTS is the first time the FIA have created a series specifically for eSports and the first time they have put name to a license. However it's not the first FIA series that has been licenced for eSports.
Well ok that's also not quite right, PD did sign a deal for an esport league with the FIA back in 2016, it's just nothing happened with it.
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