The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

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Aside from graphics and scapes these are not unique or even firsts.

There are very few firsts or unique things happening in the genre as a whole. GTS having a couple is notable.

Sega GT had a photo more before GT did, the livery editor may be on par with others but we don't yet know that. Sounds are catching up, they are better but certainly not improved over the best in the market.

With the pre-rendered backgrounds and camera like control?

GTS's livery editor looks to be better than any others due to the possible option of importing images and high quality decals.

The FIA have also approved and licenced it's brands to an eSports category for two years, and about to enter a third with WRC, and we had the F1 eSports announced in August.

These would both require FIA licence approval to even exist. GTS is the first time the FIA have created a series specifically for eSports and the first time they have put name to a license. However it's not the first FIA series that has been licenced for eSports.

Well ok that's also not quite right, PD did sign a deal for an esport league with the FIA back in 2016, it's just nothing happened with it.

I'm talking about the FIA license which is evidently a feature and a genre first.
 
Again?

PCars 1 was a broken mess that gamers deserted in short order. Thankfully Assetto Corsa arrived and (after some much needed updates) delivered the kind of physics first experience PCars promised, but never delivered. I very much hope PCars 2 delivers, but I'll be waiting for reviews, and most importantly, feedback from fellow sim racers to see if the bugs and inconsistencies have been ironed out.

What Assetto Corsa proved to me is a more focused, high quality approach, is preferable over throwing everything but the kitchen sink at a game. That's why I'm hopefully about GTS, I want to see the title grow and strengthen the sim racing community on PS4 over the next 2-3yrs. So many hyped up titles come and go within 6 months, none more so than in the driving genre. Of course the usual answer is to pump out another sequel with ever diminishing returns.
Not sure how you can give PCars 1 a hard time in the physics department whilst giving GTS a free pass.

Anyway, as for PCars2 embargo is lifted on Monday but here's a little preview from the fine folks from this very site. https://www.gtplanet.net/project-cars-2-preview/
 
There are very few firsts or unique things happening in the genre as a whole. GTS having a couple is notable.
Scapes, and it's an evolution of photomode, a very interesting one at that.

However beyond that I'm not aware of what else is unique to the genre.


With the pre-rendered backgrounds and camera like control?
Replay, but with camera control. That said it was four years before GT did it, so it would be natural for PD to develop it.

GT4s was far better than Sega GTs, however it wasn't the first.

GTS's livery editor looks to be better than any others due to the possible option of importing images and high quality decals.
Looks to be is the operative term here.

I'm talking about the FIA license which is evidently a feature and a genre first.
The WRC and F1 eSports series are using the licences illegally?

Of course they are not, as such the FIA has put its name, via it's race series to esports before.

To claim it as unique to the genre because it's the first specific esports series that it has backed outside of it's race series is nitpicking.

It's also arguable that to the wider public WRC and F1 are both brands with greater awareness and recognition than the FIA.
 
You do if that was one the major complaints of the series in my opinion.

I see. So despite the fact that the racing game with arguably the biggest budget of them all has been infamous for it's awful sounds and AI, it should still count as a positive when they catch up to stuff like Assetto Corsa. Gotcha.

Alot of the competition doesn't even have a livery editor so shouldn't it be a point?

Define "a lot". There aren't a lot of AAA racing games. Forza has one and has done for ages. Ditto Need for Speed. And Driveclub. Even Dirt 4 has a limited one. There's a good sized handful of random smaller games dating back to at least the PS3 era that have had livery editors too. Ferrari Challenge, anyone?

The modern ones that don't are the rest of the Codies games, AC and pCARS, and calling those AAA is pretty optimistic. They're not AAA, and the only reason that they count as "competitors" to GTS is that Polyphony is only just now catching up with what small third party studios are capable of. Sure, let's give the professional development team with financial backing from the console manufacturer props for keeping up with the indies.

A lie.

- GTS livery editor in one of the best if not the best in the genre
- Graphics are as usual the best.
- Sound has certain improvements over competitors.
- Driver and Sportsmanship rating is something only one other game has on console and its just releasing.
- Scapes is revolutionary. Much like how GT made photomode that was then implemented in many other games, this is the next step to those rendered background modes.
- FIA licensed cups, a first for the genre.

As expected, the handful of usual suspects are trying their hardest at downplaying GTS

Hold up there big boy, before you start throwing accusations like "liar" around.

-The GTS livery editor is good, and depending on what you want from such a system it's certainly one of the best. But they're only just getting it now, and so saying that they're catching up to all the games that have had livery editors for years is not inaccurate.
-Graphics was not mentioned in the list of things that I was quoting. They are exceptional as usual. Still, as expected, a handful of the usual suspects are trying their hardest to overhype GTS instead of discussing the actual points mentioned.
-Like the editor, the sounds are decent. Depending on what you're after and the setup you hear them through, you'll probably find them somewhere between adequate and excellent. Still, this is something where until GTS they have been far behind their competitors, and so I'm not seeing your argument that I'm lying when I say that they're finally catching up.
-Ratings have been around for nearly ten years in iRacing. Console games are now starting to pick up the technology, but I'm yet to see anything from the GTS version that shows it to be any more progressive than any of the simple matchmaking systems that have been in racing games in the past.
-I mentioned Scapes, but I think you'll find that there's an interesting discussion to be had about the relative merits of large numbers of Scapes versus smaller numbers of fully rendered photomode locations.
-The FIA license is so far a rubber stamp. It adds nothing to the game outside of a logo on the box. There are no FIA certified series or classes in GTS. Other games have worked with the FIA.

So please, point out exactly what I'm lying about. You may not like what I'm saying, but it's not inaccurate. And if I'm not lying, I'd really quite like you to retract the accusation that I am, as I think it's both rude and detracts from the ability to have a calm and reasonable discussion.

There's nothing classic GT about Forza unless all you saw in classic GT was there being a large number of cars and tracks.

What is classic GT that is not available in Forza?

If he says anything about intangible soul or the essence of craftsmanship, then I'm pretty sure we're talking to someone who hasn't actually bothered to ever play a Forza game.[/color=white]
 
@Imari So you don't count points/features just because they are in other games? :odd:

Also calling what DC and DiRT 4 have as "Livery Editors" is pushing it. Codies' games are AAA (only DiRT Rally can be an exception).
 
@Imari So you don't count points/features just because they are in other games? :odd:

I think you've missed the point of the discussion somewhat. You can count whatever you like as a "feature", but at some point they become so ubiquitous that there's no value in doing so.

I notice that you didn't list GTS as using 3D polygonal models. Once upon a time most games were 2D, and so such a feature would have been a major selling point. But in 2017, it's expected. It would actually be more unusual not to be using 3D models.

So it's not that I don't count features that are in other games. I don't count features that are so ubiquitious or fundamental to the genre that they're essentially necessary to compete. Sounds, AI and physics are basic requirements to have a racing game at all. Had they not been such a joke for the last 15 years, you wouldn't be listing them as a feature. As such, no, I don't consider them "features", I consider them not to be the drawbacks that they have traditionally been for the Gran Turismo series.

I don't consider a lack of flies in my soup to be a feature, but at the same time I'm no longer required to fish around the floaters to get my meal which is certainly nice.

As I've said elsewhere, the Livery Editor and Scapes seem very good. They have their limitations which means that there's reasonable discussion on which game has the best implementation, but they're certainly up with the state of the rest of the genre. Online likewise, although it's very dependent on their final implementation. The beta was interesting as an indication of the direction that they're going for, but were it to be a final product it would have been considered underwhelming. I await their final version and hope that they can find a happy medium between accessability and competitiveness.
 
You do if that was one the major complaints of the series in my opinion. It is also some of the reasons why the game took too long. Alot of the competition doesn't even have a livery editor so shouldn't it be a point?
Thing is, with Polyphony Digital's ties, they could surely have gotten more real world liveries. Before anyone tries to pull the money card, if PD can afford Suzuka, they can afford to pay fort authentic liveries.

Livery editor, is a major point that will help to sell this game. I bet if they didn't have it, but did include authentic livery skins, fans would still enjoy as much. Sure, having players create authentic liveries might not cost a thing on PD's part. They still have to get licences to use the authentic stickers included in the game.

Even though some competitors don't have livery editor, they do include a bevy of authentic cars with their liveries.
 
@Imari My post was in response to the how PD used their time to develop GTS. Working on core issues that plagued the series should be commended in my opinion.

Fair enough. That's your opinion.

My opinion is that making games is their profession. Making games with core issues that plague the series is a problem in it's own right, but working to fix them is what any competent developer and employee would do. At my work, we don't give people props simply for turning up to work and doing the bare minimum. What would be the point of that? We already give them money to recognise that particular "achievement".

I dislike the cupcake generation, and I think commending people for doing basic tasks devalues any commendation given for real effort, insight or ingenuity. I think Polyphony should be commended for their remarkable graphical achievements, and for Scapes which are a fresh approach to what has become a stale feature in the genre. I think commending them for making sounds that don't suck devalues the real achievements that they've made with other areas of the game.

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I F:censored: HATE ALL OF YOU DAMN BACKMARKERS ON THE BB RACEWAY COURSE.
Started on pole and pulled away easily on first turn, then it was cruising up until lap 9 when backmarkers were struggling. None of those c:censored:s moved and kept blocking me, then 2nd caught up and punted me, dropping me to 10th.

GET. OUT. OF. THE. WAY. IF. YOU. ARE. ABOUT. TO. BE. LAPPED.
 
GET. OUT. OF. THE. WAY. IF. YOU. ARE. ABOUT. TO. BE. LAPPED.

Hmm... in all the preview builds that we've seen up until now, the AI post on the turning signal and moves over.

Hopefully that makes it in to the final build. Seems like a very useful feature.
 
It's just baffling how PD, or any company for that matter, can spend four plus years, and not do better than GT Sport. The track selection is out of this world pathetic, lacking some of the most important real world tracks in the world. We have more modern Le Mans cars than ever, but not a single track that they actually race on. The car list isn't faring any better, almost completely lacking any historical cars, including the legendary McLaren F1, and just in general being a mess. This problem is compounded by how many cars are just variations of one model, rather than actual different models.

The game seemingly focuses on motorsport, rather than just cars in general, yet it somehow manages to be more unfocused than its PS3 predecessors as a result of lack of content, and PD's continues inability to focus on one year in a given motorsport. The end result being a GT3 field featuring cars from 2011-2017.

Add the half assed VR implementation and the removal of features that are now standard in racing sims, such as dynamic weather, and you're left with a game that has no reason to exist. All that extra power in the PS4, and yet, they've managed to make a less impressive game than they did on the PS3. Will the AI be any decent this time? Of course it won't...

Just shut down this company already...
 
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It's just baffling how PD, or any company for that matter, can spend four plus years, and not do better than GT Sport. The track selection is out of this world pathetic, lacking some of the most important real world tracks in the world. We have more modern Le Mans cars than ever, but not a single track that they actually race on. The car list isn't faring any better, almost completely lacking any historical cars, including the legendary McLaren F1, and just in general being a mess. This problem is compounded by how many cars are just variations of one model, rather than actual different models.

The game seemingly focuses on motorsport, rather than just cars in general, yet it somehow manages to be more unfocused than its PS3 predecessors as a result of lack of content, and PD's continues inability to focus on one year in a given motorsport. The end result being a GT3 field featuring cars from 2011-2017.

Add the half assed VR implementation and the removal of features that are now standard in racing sims, such as dynamic weather, and you're left with a game that has no reason to exist. All that extra power in the PS4, and yet, they've managed to make a less impressive game than they did on the PS3. Will the AI be any decent this time? Of course it won't...

Just shut down this company already...
Agreed on all points except shutting down.

It really is baffling the track list. I mean SPA and de la sartha are like the first choices along with Nurburgring. How can you miss these PD?
 
So I actually just played the demo. I figured I should at least get a little hands on with the game to further validate what I am saying, and wow. I knew it was bad, but wow. This game is bad on an entirely new level. Sure, the pre-rendered cinematics in the menus look nice, but in-game, the game looks bland as hell. Coming from Driveclub, GT Sport looks little better than an upgraded PS3 game. The chase cam is abysmal, being entirely too far away from the car and is completely fixed to the car. You can't even swivel it around the car to see what is going on next to you, or simply to appreciate the car. There's also no sense of speed at all. Going 200 km/h feels like a 100 at best. I would've loved to see if I could perhaps alter some options to make the game look or play better, but every time I entered the options menu, the game crashed. Tried three times with the same result.

Collision physics are laughable, and the damage model doesn't appear to be any different to what it was in the PS3 games. The AI still appears to be build around rubber banding. I had set the AI to professional, but despite driving incredibly poor, they took forever to actually put a sizeable gap between me and them, suggesting that they do adjust their speed somewhat according to how fast you yourself are going. Can't conclude this to be the case outright, but certainly seems to be the case.

Frankly, I am struggling to comprehend just how bad this game is. Granted, it's been a very long time since I've played a sim with a controller. I switched to the G27, and later, the Thrustmaster T500, when playing GT5 and 6, and so I don't feel that anything I have to say regarding the feel of driving in GT Sport has much merit to it. My impression wasn't good with the controller, but it could just be me no longer being in touch with a game like this. Of course, even if the game handles well, it still wouldn't off set everything else that is wrong with the game, which is practically everything.

The only good thing they've introduced is a seemingly comprehensive livery editor.
 
So I actually just played the demo. I figured I should at least get a little hands on with the game to further validate what I am saying, and wow. I knew it was bad, but wow. This game is bad on an entirely new level. Sure, the pre-rendered cinematics in the menus look nice, but in-game, the game looks bland as hell. Coming from Driveclub, GT Sport looks little better than an upgraded PS3 game. The chase cam is abysmal, being entirely too far away from the car and is completely fixed to the car. You can't even swivel it around the car to see what is going on next to you, or simply to appreciate the car. There's also no sense of speed at all. Going 200 km/h feels like a 100 at best. I would've loved to see if I could perhaps alter some options to make the game look or play better, but every time I entered the options menu, the game crashed. Tried three times with the same result.

Collision physics are laughable, and the damage model doesn't appear to be any different to what it was in the PS3 games. The AI still appears to be build around rubber banding. I had set the AI to professional, but despite driving incredibly poor, they took forever to actually put a sizeable gap between me and them, suggesting that they do adjust their speed somewhat according to how fast you yourself are going. Can't conclude this to be the case outright, but certainly seems to be the case.

Frankly, I am struggling to comprehend just how bad this game is. Granted, it's been a very long time since I've played a sim with a controller. I switched to the G27, and later, the Thrustmaster T500, when playing GT5 and 6, and so I don't feel that anything I have to say regarding the feel of driving in GT Sport has much merit to it. My impression wasn't good with the controller, but it could just be me no longer being in touch with a game like this. Of course, even if the game handles well, it still wouldn't off set everything else that is wrong with the game, which is practically everything.

The only good thing they've introduced is a seemingly comprehensive livery editor.
Sums it all up really - you were passing judgement on something you hadn't even played yet, so were clearly determined to spew hate on the game regardless. Bland as hell you say? Hmmm...OK, I guess the 4K HDR sunset views are totally bland and PS3-like...yeah whatever. Is it perfect? No, but is it one on the most realistic looking racers on any platform? Yep, unless you like artificially bright and vivid colours that pop on screen but look nothing like the outside world. Not to say other games don't look good, of course they do, and with their own merits, but to slam the game by saying that practically everything is wrong with it just screams of a fanboy.
 
Sums it all up really - you were passing judgement on something you hadn't even played yet, so were clearly determined to spew hate on the game regardless. Bland as hell you say? Hmmm...OK, I guess the 4K HDR sunset views are totally bland and PS3-like...yeah whatever. Is it perfect? No, but is it one on the most realistic looking racers on any platform? Yep, unless you like artificially bright and vivid colours that pop on screen but look nothing like the outside world. Not to say other games don't look good, of course they do, and with their own merits, but to slam the game by saying that practically everything is wrong with it just screams of a fanboy.
So now that he has some game time in, his opinion is wrong and yours is right?
 
but is it one on the most realistic looking racers

Yes it is, but that can’t make up for what its missing. I’m saying this from the POV that I like both GTSPORT and PCARS2. Granted the latter title has its own issues, and my aim is to not turn this into a comparison.

Has GTSPORT moved on all that much from GT5/6 when you take the way it looks out of the equation? Not a whole bunch in my opinion, I suppose it could be argued that it has taken a step back without any dynamic weather or change in time, and whilst I miss this, do I think it detracts, probably not.

What makes this more of a game for me is the fact that tyre pressures are not modelled, and where the game becomes bland is the feedback through the steering wheel, not that the feedback is bad I suppose its alright, I guess the way I would describe it is its quiet.

There has never been an evolution with Gran Turismo and its tyres during a race, except for a token drop off in grip, or a feeling that the tyres are getting slippy, something that has never been translated through a wheel. It strikes me that a driving game which in its own right claims to be the real driving simulator could and should do more with how it simulates tyres.

I have no other fault for the game at the moment with what limited time I’ve spent with it, and the quote of the week for me was my missus yesterday,

“What game is that?”

To which I replied,

“Its the new Gran Turismo”

To which she replied,

“Looks exactly the same as the one I bought you for Christmas a few years ago”

...
 
@Johnnypenso, I don't recall saying his opinion was wrong and mine was right, simply that he was clearly out to slam GTS with a completely unbalanced reflection of the game. You off to get his tea ready now or something?!

@rono_thomas, I guess it largely depends what you want out of a racer, and I take on board what you're saying. I'm more of a "pick up and play" racer, and in that sense Gran Turismo suits me perfectly. As for the quote from your missus, without wanting to sound derogatory to women of the world (I am in that group after all!) but a partner who isn't as close to the games as we are says "looks just the same", it doesn't really mean much!
 
@Johnnypenso, I don't recall saying his opinion was wrong and mine was right, simply that he was clearly out to slam GTS with a completely unbalanced reflection of the game. You off to get his tea ready now or something?!
Which makes all of what you're saying meaningless since he actually did try the game.
 
:lol: She has absolutely no idea.
Trust me, my partner doesn't have a clue when it comes to games! He can't tell the difference between Gran Turismo and Drive Club! lol

Which makes all of what you're saying meaningless since he actually did try the game.
What, as meaningless as your previous implication that I said his opinion is wrong and mine is right?! Go back to making his tea love.
 
...Sounds, AI and physics are basic requirements to have a racing game at all. Had they not been such a joke for the last 15 years,...

So since 2002 GT's sound, AI and physics have been 'a joke'?

Ok then. 👍
 
Here is my 2 cents... Such a long time waiting for development to end and they came with only few tracks.Absence of legendary GT tracks such as:Trail Mountain, Deep Forest Raceway,Apricot hill,Autumn Ring,Seattle,El Capitan,Swiss Alps,Grand Valley,Midfield Raceway,Rome and real driving circuits like Monza,Cote d Azur,Spa,Laguna Seca,Indy,Fuji,La Sarthe,Motegi and so on and so on...is simply unacceptable..of course maybe they will come in some DLC in the future and I bet they will make us pay for it...realy dont know what they're bin doing all this time. I grew up on GT and as the technique progressed, they regressed back...so sad.No GT for me any more bye bye :grumpy:
 
I grew up with GT and by the time we reached GT5 - and particularly GT6 - the series was stale, inherently flawed, and seemingly stuck in a rut it wouldn't get out of.

GT Sport was built from the ground up and it's immediately obvious. From the UI, the consistent high quality, the graphical standards, transformed sound, and the best driving model we've experienced in a GT yet. But best of all, it has that "one more go" appeal Gran Turismo hasn't had since GT4 (for me at least). I've played plenty of titles this gen that (on paper) did certain things better, but as a package, they became a chore to work through. And they certainly weren't the cohesive package GT Sport has proven to be.
 
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