The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[Bigbazz]

AI in general hasn't exactly improved a lot over the last 15 years, compared to everything else AI has moved at a snails pace. There is not a game out there that doesn't have stupid AI. Rfactor - Fast but extremely stupid AI. F1 Codemasters series, again pretty fast but also stupid, even fake AI where the laptimes are approximated. Forza? slow and stupid. Crysis 3? AI that walks into walls and gets stuck.


Talking about sounds, Forza cars sound a lot like the real thing. Non sports cars are not loud and dramatic? Well my mate has a 90 HP Mitsubishi Colt and that thing is pretty loud and dramatic sounding (and not from some cheesy aftermarket exhaust). If were going to whine about GT5 sounds then well they don't even sound like car noises in a lot of cases, they are just terrible approximations.

For all the things I think GT5 completely outclasses Forza 4, sounds is definitely not one of them.

 

[jabofu]

I will comment on your post purely because it is full of something I really can't stand any more and those are deliberate misconceptions that are not grounded in reality and facts but in some unbelievable universe created as "universal common opinion" - although it is completely false.

- Forza didn't improve its *sound massively within this console generation* it was exact the OPPOSITE. Forza 2 had the best sounds in all 3 this-gen Forza games, while FM4 has the worse of all 3 games. From Forza 2 to Forza 4 we lost progressive upgrades in sounds when installing tuning, collision sounds were dumbed-down and actual technical-aspect of the sound - mixing the channels for playback - is nothing less then horrid (even compared to FM2). FM4 has no channel-mixing in surround for instance, all sounds comes on central-speaker only, tyres are processed together with engine/exhaust, etc. The is no rear-front mix and to cut it short, Forza series is the showcase of *sound massively downgraded within this console generation*

But nevermind, it is not important to have factual claims I presume.

You are right, but they decided to make everything mainstream-friendly after FM 2. They wanted and needed a bigger audience. The way the, handle the sound makes it even enjoyable for someone with the tv-sound or cheap headphones.

GT5 sounds horrible on such hardware. But even with a good sound system it lacks punch and sterile.

The new suspension and tyre physics is what should have been included in GT 5. It is funny how they come around with these things after Turn10 talked about the partnership with Pirelli. I think PD opened up a bit and maybe "change" is really on its way. But we first have to see how their new system will work out for us. Maybe it is good, maybe not. They are definetly late to the game.

 

[HKS racer]

I will comment on your post purely because it is full of something I really can't stand any more and those are deliberate misconceptions that are not grounded in reality and facts but in some unbelievable universe created as "universal common opinion" - although it is completely false.

- Forza didn't improve its *sound massively within this console generation* it was exact the OPPOSITE. Forza 2 had the best sounds in all 3 this-gen Forza games, while FM4 has the worse of all 3 games. From Forza 2 to Forza 4 we lost progressive upgrades in sounds when installing tuning, collision sounds were dumbed-down and actual technical-aspect of the sound - mixing the channels for playback - is nothing less then horrid (even compared to FM2). FM4 has no channel-mixing in surround for instance, all sounds comes on central-speaker only, tyres are processed together with engine/exhaust, etc. The is no rear-front mix and to cut it short, Forza series is the showcase of *sound massively downgraded within this console generation*

But nevermind, it is not important to have factual claims I presume.

What people say basically is they like how the cars sounds, aggressive powerful etc. They are not talking about the quality of the sounds, channel mixing, dolby, sound engine, etc.

 

[Stotty]

I've always been excited about a new GT title (and I've had them all since GT1), but I feel strangely numb on the GT6 announcement.

I still play GT5, I still enjoy it for the most part, but launching another title on the PS3 is more GT5.5 than a new game... it's just plain lazy and seems to be an action to distract us from the fact that we'll not get a full next gen console version that could offer radical improvements in the full game for several years.

Personally, I'd have preferred a cut down GT6 'Prologue' on the PS4, with a full game a year later.

Of course I'll buy it, but I can't see me booking a week off work for the launch like I did when GT5 came out. Or investing the time I did to reach A and B spec lvl 40, or getting all the cars, or the platinum trophy.

No epic whining and crying... just a sense of epic disappointment.

Edit:

Message to Sony if you read any of this... releasing another GT game on the PS3 (so close to the launch of the PS4) means you've lost at least 1 customer for the PS4.

 

[Highlandor]

I'm dissapointed that it was not released on PS4, there is no reason to the the PS4 now for me. Bad buisness decision too.

I'm also dissapointed they didn't wait until PS4, but this isn't bad business direction.

"GT6" will serve a number of business purposes:

1) Obviously, sales and money, but more importantly...
2) Reduce the impact Project Carrs and possibly new Racedriver thingy game will have on the amount of people leaving GT.
3) Probably bring back a few of the huge amount of GT fans who walked away from GT5 in disgust.
4) Get the internet "buzzing" with news of GT5 V2.. ooops, sorry, my bad, "GT6", bringing more promotion and publicity to this brand instead of it's rivals.

Considering that Kaz wanted 2 more year to develop GT5, how unfinished and un-tested GT5 was when released - and now we have a "GT6" 3 years after release of GT5..

Kinda makes me think this is the GT5 that we should've had originally. So the cost of this (GT5 V2 ...oooops, my bad - "GT6") was already half done via what we have now...

They've then had 3 years to look at customer feedback, fix a few problems, make some changes / upgrades, change the look of it, and get some new cars and tracks then release a whole new game which so many will swallow hook line and sinker.

We had 4 years of Prologue, 3 years of GT5 and now we have a "new GT"...

Pretty good business f you ask me (not that I agree with it in prinicple), but business doesn't have principles, only profit - which is what this "GT6" will give in abundance...which is good business.

 

[traind]

The GT6 reveal was incomplete for a reason. PD needs to also reveal new information at E3, Gamescon, etc. So we just got a taste of GT6... hopefully there will be many other pleasant surprises at E3 in just a few short weeks.

The big thing to me is the physics and handling work. I guess everyone plays GT in a slightly different way with different areas of emphasis but more traditional simracers value handling feel right at/near the top of the list. What came across yesterday is that GT6 will make another jump forward in this area. Jordan confirmed this was his experience at Silverstone. That is great news to me... GT5 felt good, GT6 will be noticeably better.

It does amaze me that many on the forum come across like PD just came over to their house and shot their dog. It is a videogame, don't take it so personally.

 

[bigspleen]

I'm also dissapointed they didn't wait until PS4, but this isn't bad business direction.

"GT6" will serve a number of business purposes:

1) Obviously, sales and money, but more importantly...
2) Reduce the impact Project Carrs and possibly new Racedriver thingy game will have on the amount of people leaving GT.
3) Probably bring back a few of the huge amount of GT fans who walked away from GT5 in disgust.
4) Get the internet "buzzing" with news of GT5 V2.. ooops, sorry, my bad, "GT6", bringing more promotion and publicity to this brand instead of it's rivals.

Considering that Kaz wanted 2 more year to develop GT5, how unfinished and un-tested GT5 was when released - and now we have a "GT6" 3 years after release of GT5..

Kinda makes me think this is the GT5 that we should've had originally. So the cost of this (GT5 V2 ...oooops, my bad - "GT6") was already half done via what we have now...

They've then had 3 years to look at customer feedback, fix a few problems, make some changes / upgrades, change the look of it, and get some new cars and tracks then release a whole new game which so many will swallow hook line and sinker.

We had 4 years of Prologue, 3 years of GT5 and now we have a "new GT"...

Pretty good business f you ask me (not that I agree with it in prinicple), but business doesn't have principles, only profit - which is what this "GT6" will give in abundance...which is good business.

All wrong, answer me this, what is more important for sony's long term future, Ps4 or GT6 sales? GT6 sales even if massive are nothing but a tiny drop in the big sony corporate bucket.

The PS4 getting off to a strong start, and having a major franchise on it early in it's life is vastly more beneficial to Sony then 1 games sales no matter how big.

 

[Tornado]

All wrong, answer me this, what is more important for sony's long term future, Ps4 or GT6 sales? GT6 sales even if massive are nothing but a tiny drop in the big sony corporate bucket.

The PS4 getting off to a strong start, and having a major franchise on it early in it's life is vastly more beneficial to Sony then 1 games sales no matter how big.

The PS4 already has major franchises confirmed for it, so... not really. This debate has been beat to death in the months leading up to the announcement.

 

[traind]

All wrong, answer me this, what is more important for sony's long term future, Ps4 or GT6 sales? GT6 sales even if massive are nothing but a tiny drop in the big sony corporate bucket.

The PS4 getting off to a strong start, and having a major franchise on it early in it's life is vastly more beneficial to Sony then 1 games sales no matter how big.

Unless Microsoft pulls something really magical out of the bag next week, Sony will sell every single single PS4 they can build as soon as it hits the shelf for at least the first 6 months of production... if not the first year. We will have a hard time walking into a store and buying one because of the demand. They will do this without any GT game on the system, even more so than they did with the PS3 because the price will be more palatable this time. Why? Supply will be constrained by manufacturing and there is pent up demand for new consoles after 6-7 years with the current tech (even in this economic malaise).

Many people are saying on this forum... 'I won't buy the PS4 with no GT game'. Sony doesn't really care about you-- because they have you already!. They also have PS4 buyers lined up already who are not so genre specific. On top of that, those that are so loyal to GT games probably won't move in droves to Xbox either. They will end up buying GT6 (which will sell 5+million on PS3) and then upgrade to PS4 when ready with GT7 prologue or GT6 PS4 version or whatever. So Sony wins either way.

I know most of these 'bad business' comments on the forum come from an emotional reaction to not getting what is wanted individually from GT6. Still, consider this... Sony took a very large and very financially painful market share loss in the transition from PS2 to PS3. All signs and signals with PS4 so far point to the fact that they have learned from their errors with PS3. If anyone thinks they have not considered all the angles on launch title strategy very very carefully, I can assure you you are mistaken. They will still make errors... but the GT6 plan has been thought through with great detail from a business perspective.

 

[bigspleen]

The PS4 already has major franchises confirmed for it, so... not really. This debate has been beat to death in the months leading up to the announcement.

?? No it doesn't Killzone, infamous barely break 1-2 million in sales no one will buy a PS4 for those games alone, GT6 would be the one game sony has that would move a lot more people to the ps4, it's their biggest franchise and its launching on an old system the same time their new one is coming out............That's idiotic. Sony has a lot more to gain launching it on Ps4 then ps3.

Unless Microsoft pulls something really magical out of the bag next week, Sony will sell every single single PS4 they can build as soon as it hits the shelf for at least the first 6 months of production... if not the first year. We will have a hard time walking into a store and buying one because of the demand. They will do this without any GT game on the system, even more so than they did with the PS3 because the price will be more palatable this time. Why? Supply will be constrained by manufacturing and there is pent up demand for new consoles after 6-7 years with the current tech (even in this economic malaise).

Many people are saying on this forum... 'I won't buy the PS4 with no GT game'. Sony doesn't really care about you-- because they have you already!. They also have PS4 buyers lined up already who are not so genre specific. On top of that, those that are so loyal to GT games probably won't move in droves to Xbox either. They will end up buying GT6 (which will sell 5+million on PS3) and then upgrade to PS4 when ready with GT7 prologue or GT6 PS4 version or whatever. So Sony wins either way.

I know most of these 'bad business' comments on the forum come from an emotional reaction to not getting what is wanted individually from GT6. Still, consider this... Sony took a very large and very financially painful market share loss in the transition from PS2 to PS3. All signs and signals with PS4 so far point to the fact that they have learned from their errors with PS3. If anyone thinks they have not considered all the angles on launch title strategy very very carefully, I can assure you you are mistaken. They will still make errors... but the GT6 plan has been thought through with great detail from a business perspective.

yeah because sony has shown they always know what they are doing right? Looks at ps3 and laughs .Sony has been on the verge of going bankrupt due to their total mismanagement and poor decisions. They sure messed up the ps3 launch.

 

[Tornado]

Beat. To. Death.


Though I'm certainly curious about your explanation for how the PSX, PS2 and PS3 all survived without GT games as launch titles.

 

[Samus]

Even if GT6 was announced as a PS4 game yesterday it was never, ever going to be a launch title. Not even if Drive Club was out of the picture. If it was a PS4 announcement I was expecting "Coming 2014" or something along those lines and it released late next year.

 

[awr117]

I love how everyone is an expert around here.

 

[Johnnypenso]

slight edit....

I'm also dissapointed they didn't wait until PS4, but this isn't bad business direction.

"GT6" will serve a number of business purposes:

1) Obviously, sales and money, but more importantly...
2) Sales and money, but more importantly...
3) Sales and money....

7 million units x $70 + DLC = potentially $750,000,000. Everything else aside, this is all that really matters to Sony and PD. The vast, vast majority of people who buy and play GT5 are just casual gamers who never go online and are completely unaware of or don't care about the concerns we raise here on GTP.

 

[Tornado]

I love how everyone is an expert around here.

Being an expert comes with the internet connection; and the level of distinction on your diploma is determined by your internet speed.


I've got a nice and fat cable modem too...

 

[C_Raccoon23]

You are delusional my friend. But really.

Your expressed *hate* comes from a fact how this particular game does not have some cars of your subjective preference, while some other game have them. And that is basically it. You have to be kidding.

You are setting the "laziness" trap for the people that have presented the crazy list of improvements for the sequel over previous game that will especially emphasise community and simulation aspects of the game, among other improvements.

You are bashing over GTAcademy because you personally do not like it while you don't want to accept it actually serves its purpose on as many levels imaginable, most notably on development of physics, gameplay and game features.

And yet - with surprising twist - you are implying they should *learn* for studio that can't even influence their principal to allow for normal force feedback wheel support on their platform for three generation in the row, that sacrifice driving model in favouring controller over wheels, that deliberately downplays all simulation-aspects of its game because of the casual players (Simulation mode, have you ever seen it in Rivals, Matchmaking or in filtering for official venues?), that can't offer variety in surfaces or proper open-wheel vehicles for 4 consecutive games without any meaningful explanation, that totally missed opportunity to introduce variable weather and day/night changes, that deliberately killed endurance racing form their single-player and matchmaking while in the same time preaching about being the ultimate simulation, that does not offer any real new, groundbraking functionality or options for 10 years (in fact, they're killing-off all improvements they've achieved through sequels: no city tracks at all anymore, less and less big point-to-point stages, dumbing down physics and mechanical-physics, scrapping Drivatar development after the very 1st sequel, no real improvements in bridging the gap among controller and wheel players handicap, almost never releasing any substantial updates for buggy and problematic part of their games..).

What should PD learn from T10? Sounds? They are absolutely equally incorrect in both games. Online? Online functionality is much better in GT5 then in FM4. Rivals? Stolen from EA's Autolog, so no real "Forza invention" there. Livery Editor? Yeah, livery editor. And engine swapping. Okay. Two points, I agree.

But somehow I think how both Livery Editor and Engine Swapping should be traded for all things that GT series does miles better then Forza and where Forza still have so damn too much to learn from PD. Which will never happen unfortunately, because it is easier to create a positive mindset with serving people with Porsches and some fancy cars in game with 700+ cars then to actually improve over substantial things that could elevate the true essence of your game.

But everybody has a right to opinion, you and me equally, and I am taking my liberty to say how I still wait the day when some driving game will come that will meet all things that GT series does right and unique on top of basic things it delivers as driving simulation. Gaming and driving-genre in general would be much more beautiful place if more developers would be enough brave to take onto voyages that PD is embarking for 15 years now.

Of course, all above is strictly my subjective opinion.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8475372#post8475372

 

[traind]

Even if GT6 was announced as a PS4 game yesterday it was never, ever going to be a launch title. Not even if Drive Club was out of the picture. If it was a PS4 announcement I was expecting "Coming 2014" or something along those lines and it released late next year.

Agree with one exception... it would only have been GT6 prologue in 2014 for PS4.

I personally would prefer a PS4 GT6 but I have been in business long enough both in a big company like Sony as well as running my own business to understand that GT6 PS4 is not essential for Sony to succeed with PS4.

 

[traind]

Beat. To. Death.


Though I'm certainly curious about your explanation for how the PSX, PS2 and PS3 all survived without GT games as launch titles.

Thank you!!

Many here are looking at the issues through their own desires and not from a business perspective.

 

[ShiftingGears]

KinLm, forgive me for wanting a full product on release day, rather than paying full price, and then paying an additional amount for the rest of the content in mini installments later on.

I'm viewing this as GT5.5 as opposed to GT6, there's a lot more that PD could have done, you only need to look elsewhere to know that.

The reason why I am more pessimistic about the GT series is because it started off as an industry leader that many people used as a measuring bar. These days, the GT series is looking up at the measuring bar from underneath and not stretching enough to reach it, in my opinion. I know that PD is capable of building one of the best games/simulators, but they are slow to update their product, and I don't mean in terms of release dates, but in terms of content and experience with each release, the step ups are too small.

Agreed.

Initial thoughts:

All GT5 cars? There was a huge number of them that should've been cut completely. Not promising.

Only seven new tracks at release?

Sound from the preview video is still awful.

"Players can create their own personalised custom car in the game" - vague, makes me suspect there isn't a livery editor.

Nothing suggesting that they've improved the AI.

HUD does not appear to be improved at all.

 

[novcze]

I would laugh if GT6 flops, it looks same or worse as GT5, few new cars, few new tracks and prospect of monthly DLC ... only one exciting thing = new physics and that's exciting for me, is it for average joe who will rather buy PS4 with Drive Club for his "shiny car" fix?

 

[Zer0]

Ohhh... the GTP drama & hate. Love it.

The new suspension and tyre physics is what should have been included in GT 5. It is funny how they come around with these things after Turn10 talked about the partnership with Pirelli. I think PD opened up a bit and maybe "change" is really on its way. But we first have to see how their new system will work out for us. Maybe it is good, maybe not. They are definetly late to the game.

What game? a better GT is always wellcomed.

Message to Sony if you read any of this... releasing another GT game on the PS3 (so close to the launch of the PS4) means you've lost at least 1 customer for the PS4.

You mean lost a launch day customer? I'm sure that you at some point bought a PS2 to play GT3 after playing GT2 on the PS1. That schedule was not different from the actual one.

GT2 (January 2000)-> PS2 (march 2000)

 

[HaylRayzor]

The GT6 reveal was incomplete for a reason. PD needs to also reveal new information at E3, Gamescon, etc. So we just got a taste of GT6... hopefully there will be many other pleasant surprises at E3 in just a few short weeks.

The big thing to me is the physics and handling work. I guess everyone plays GT in a slightly different way with different areas of emphasis but more traditional simracers value handling feel right at/near the top of the list. What came across yesterday is that GT6 will make another jump forward in this area. Jordan confirmed this was his experience at Silverstone. That is great news to me... GT5 felt good, GT6 will be noticeably better.

It does amaze me that many on the forum come across like PD just came over to their house and shot their dog. It is a videogame, don't take it so personally.

With E3 so close, it seemed to me that this event was kind of a waste. PD could have given us a dlc car for the 15th Anniversary (even if it was just another GT-R) and said "Something big at E3."

 

[-Cheezman-]

No improvements in net code (GT5 was awful). No buy.
No livery editor. No buy.
"Paintchips." No buy.
Standard cars. No buy.

 

[Samus]

All GT5 cars? There was a huge number of them that should've been cut completely. Not promising.

It is worrying that they still don't seem to be able to shake the quantity over quality/diversity attitude. We could all argue until we're blue in the face whether certain near duplicates should stay so I'm not going to go over those again but there are a large chunk of 100%, absolutely identical except for name cars that should've been cut.

Tornado had a list in one of the older threads but I'm talking about things like the Renault Lutecia/Renault Clio, Mazda 6 Touring Car/Mazda Atenza Touring Car. Totally identical cars that don't need to stay but it seems they are simply for the "1200 cars" marketing.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

From the Gran Turismo announcements yesterday, it again appears we're only receiving the "birth" of a new game...quite literally. And just like GT5, we'll have to nurse this baby, feed this baby (through DLC) and wait for this baby to mature into a solid game. Why? Is this the new business model for games? Or just KY's scatter-brain doing what is does best?

 

[Jawehawk]

While some of the compaints in here are definately legit, others are so pathetic and devoid of any common sense that it's funny.

 

[Encyclopedia]

While some of the compaints in here are definately legit, others are so pathetic and devoid of any common sense that it's funny.

Yep. Just shows that some people get off at complaining and bringing things down.

 

[Crimson]

Am I the only one that's noticed there's been no mention of car damage?

Seeing as it was all people talked about in the lead up to GT5, the fact that no one is talking about it surprises me.

Damage was a joke in GT5. It was almost the same as GT2. Hopefully they will have rectified that for this release?

 

[ShiftingGears]

It is worrying that they still don't seem to be able to shake the quantity over quality/diversity attitude. We could all argue until we're blue in the face whether certain near duplicates should stay so I'm not going to go over those again but there are a large chunk of 100%, absolutely identical except for name cars that should've been cut.

Tornado had a list in one of the older threads but I'm talking about things like the Renault Lutecia/Renault Clio, Mazda 6 Touring Car/Mazda Atenza Touring Car. Totally identical cars that don't need to stay but it seems they are simply for the "1200 cars" marketing.

I just think it's a waste of time touching up standard cars like the Daihatsu Sirion instead of modelling new cars of some racing/performance/historical pedigree. I hope their modification of the standards has not proved detrimental to the amount of cars new to the series in GT6.

 

[Samus]

Am I the only one that's noticed there's been no mention of car damage?

Seeing as it was all people talked about in the lead up to GT5, the fact that no one is talking about it surprises me.

Damage was a joke in GT5. It was almost the same as GT2. Hopefully they will have rectified that for this release?

There are a lot of major things that haven't been mentioned, A-Spec and B-Spec for a start. They were clearly only planning to get out the headline basic info at this event.