The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[332i]

Forza has good graphics, but the colors are a bit much in terms of saturation, every car handles too well and the physics are that of a good arcade racer. The physics are no where near as quality as GT6.

People love the computer sims, which can be great, but don't forget that a lot of them include cars which are not actually simulated. Example, Asseto Corsa. They have the P1 and LaFerrari in there. And a lot of other sims that are hailed are full of what is essentially mods. Just like you used to be able to download planes that were just mod'd skins with altered qualities in Flight Simulator, etc. GT6 is far from perfect, but people have to remember that harder ≠ better simulation, having to heat brakes and tires ≠ a simulation, unless that is simulated perfectly, same with brake function, just about every mod or car is modelled by someone who either a) never drove it or b) doesn't have the skill, qualifications or understanding to drive it hard as they will in the game or simulator. So, how is it a simulation? No ferrari challenge or GP2/3 driver is out modelling cars for simulators. Don't be fooled and thinking your driving a simulation of anything, until you find out exactly how it was modelled and what defines the physics engine of said simulator/how old the engine and the technology is to have created it. Ahem. They can describe things, but that is it.

Simulators owned by F1 teams aren't full on perfect simulations. They know it can't be done. They're for keeping drivers on the ball for the track at the next round.

I just find it funny that people go on and on about how x is such a great simulator, yet they haven't driven many or any of the cars, nor has the person/fair portion (if not all) of the people who modelled it.

I see people say stupid things like "omg, I can drift so much better in Asseto Corsa, than in GT6. I'm not into drifting, but it is not easy and it is clear these people are not familiar with actually drifting in real life. Because you can't do x or x doesn't seem to work right - not always what you're using, consider it could be your driving and/or hardware.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I think he already started to listen to their fans (The Q/A for exemple), but I don't know when he will start to add what we want and if it will be enough.

I know, it's just wouldn't it have been better if Kaz just answered them by now? I don't understand why he's being so difficult to just simply "communicate" with us. Him and PD are nothing like how Codemasters are communicating with the community.

 

[332i]

I know, it's just wouldn't it have been better if Kaz just answered them by now? I don't understand why he's being so difficult to just simply "communicate" with us. Him and PD are nothing like how Codemasters are communicating with the community.

The fact that he bothers to personally pay attention to the board is pretty good. I've never been on a gaming/sim forum, but I can't imagine it is very common for someone at another developer at Kaz's level in the employee hierarchy to pay attention to what people say about their product on a forum. That stuff is definitely done by developers, but not by someone as high up as Kaz. No where near it. The fact that he looks at things personally, means he can pass demands down the ladder, not up.

 

[SSQES]

I know, it's just wouldn't it have been better if Kaz just answered them by now? I don't understand why he's being so difficult to just simply "communicate" with us. Him and PD are nothing like how Codemasters are communicating with the community.

PD really need a community manager (and why not in GTP?)

 

[Jay84]

Eghhh really? :/ I`ll be honest I haven't played in about 4 months lent my disk to a friend and just cant be bothered to have it back til they add the track maker, didnt know the VGT cars were just hollow shells!

 

[Marqus]

Eghhh really? :/ I`ll be honest I haven't played in about 4 months lent my disk to a friend and just cant be bothered to have it back til they add the track maker, didnt know the VGT cars were just hollow shells!

Well the new VW Vision GTi will have an interior. Coming sometime next week, I would hope.

 

[Forester XT]

Many may be interested in the accurate simulation of driving a real race car around a real track. Few of us have had, or ever will have, that opportunity.
I guess I may be in a minority. I look at the GT series as a "game" and I'm in it for the entertainment factor. With today's technology, great graphics and realism are a must to compete in the gaming market, but the "game" must be playable and entertaining.
Without the seat-of-the-pants feel and the G-forces on your body, a racing game can not be a simulator. Drifting in a game is a joke and has little to do with real life but does require gaming skill. (sorry, personal opinion) I imagine a racing simulator developed by NASA or Boeing would be fantastic but it wouldn't fit in my living room. A "game" must have compromises to allow us to "play" the game and race others with out crashing off of the track when we take a turn to fast or disabling the car every time we rub fenders cutting a tire. Realism comes at a price and I don't think that is what gamers want even if they say they do.
I am not a race car driver. My racing experience involves a lot of orange cones and that is probably more than 99% (a guess) of the racing gamers. I would guess a lot of gamers don't own cars and many have never driven a car! (If PD is in Tokyo I bet they don't have cars.) If you do, or have raced, consider yourself lucky and I'm envious.
That said, I do want great graphics and sounds in a game. I don't care if a tree beside a track is not right or the graffiti on the track is not photo perfect. GT's imaginary tracks are just as much fun as the reproductions of real tracks. I want to play and use my gaming skills to compete with my friends online or with AI cars.
Producing a racing game with unrealistic sounds is just being lazy. There are to many games out there with great car, plane, tank and gun sounds. I think PD has basically ignored the fans that have followed the GT series of games. Kaz seems to be off in his own world and has his worshipers but I don't understand it. I'm not interested in his videos or the music from it. The GT Academy winners are gamers to be admired but they are just "gamers". They are finding out being the best-of-the-best in a game doesn't make you the best-of-the-best in a real race car. It just creates a new fan base to bring more money into the GT franchise. I'm interested in the game of GT. Give me a superior product and I'll give you my respect, admiration and $. Promises of what PD will do or can do doesn't cut it if it never happens.
I don't want to buy a Xbox just to play Forza. With what's been going on with GT6, I will not buy a PS4 to play GT7. (sorry Sony) It will be interesting to see what becomes of the new games coming out, hopefully, this year. I may buy a PS4 or Xbox to play a really good new game but not both of them.
Yup, I'm a "Fantroll".

 

[TokoTurismo]

The fact that he bothers to personally pay attention to the board is pretty good. I've never been on a gaming/sim forum, but I can't imagine it is very common for someone at another developer at Kaz's level in the employee hierarchy to pay attention to what people say about their product on a forum. That stuff is definitely done by developers, but not by someone as high up as Kaz. No where near it. The fact that he looks at things personally, means he can pass demands down the ladder, not up.

Too bad he's taking forever...

 

[avens]

VGT cars without interiors...

That specific case is unfair criticism, because concept cars usually don't have interiors and the models (or at least the ideas/drawings) are being produced by each car company.

However I do understand that the main issue here is that most cars in the game don't have interiors and the exteriors are of PS2 quality, which is indeed unacceptable.

 

[Polsixe]

Many may be interested in the accurate simulation of driving a real race car around a real track. Few of us have had, or ever will have, that opportunity.
I guess I may be in a minority. I look at the GT series as a "game" and I'm in it for the entertainment factor. With today's technology, great graphics and realism are a must to compete in the gaming market, but the "game" must be playable and entertaining.
Without the seat-of-the-pants feel and the G-forces on your body, a racing game can not be a simulator. Drifting in a game is a joke and has little to do with real life but does require gaming skill. (sorry, personal opinion) I imagine a racing simulator developed by NASA or Boeing would be fantastic but it wouldn't fit in my living room. A "game" must have compromises to allow us to "play" the game and race others with out crashing off of the track when we take a turn to fast or disabling the car every time we rub fenders cutting a tire. Realism comes at a price and I don't think that is what gamers want even if they say they do.
I am not a race car driver. My racing experience involves a lot of orange cones and that is probably more than 99% (a guess) of the racing gamers. I would guess a lot of gamers don't own cars and many have never driven a car! (If PD is in Tokyo I bet they don't have cars.) If you do, or have raced, consider yourself lucky and I'm envious.
That said, I do want great graphics and sounds in a game. I don't care if a tree beside a track is not right or the graffiti on the track is not photo perfect. GT's imaginary tracks are just as much fun as the reproductions of real tracks. I want to play and use my gaming skills to compete with my friends online or with AI cars.
Producing a racing game with unrealistic sounds is just being lazy. There are to many games out there with great car, plane, tank and gun sounds. I think PD has basically ignored the fans that have followed the GT series of games. Kaz seems to be off in his own world and has his worshipers but I don't understand it. I'm not interested in his videos or the music from it. The GT Academy winners are gamers to be admired but they are just "gamers". They are finding out being the best-of-the-best in a game doesn't make you the best-of-the-best in a real race car. It just creates a new fan base to bring more money into the GT franchise. I'm interested in the game of GT. Give me a superior product and I'll give you my respect, admiration and $. Promises of what PD will do or can do doesn't cut it if it never happens.
I don't want to buy a Xbox just to play Forza. With what's been going on with GT6, I will not buy a PS4 to play GT7. (sorry Sony) It will be interesting to see what becomes of the new games coming out, hopefully, this year. I may buy a PS4 or Xbox to play a really good new game but not both of them.
Yup, I'm a "Fantroll".

The GT Academy guys seem to be decent drivers, sure not F1 calibre but I see Jann M. Up in 7th place at LeMans, must be more than a "gamer".

 

[Imari]

Forza has good graphics, but the colors are a bit much in terms of saturation, every car handles too well and the physics are that of a good arcade racer. The physics are no where near as quality as GT6.

And how do you objectively measure this "quality"?

People love the computer sims, which can be great, but don't forget that a lot of them include cars which are not actually simulated. Example, Asseto Corsa. They have the P1 and LaFerrari in there.

Not actually simulated. What?

GT6 is far from perfect, but people have to remember that harder ≠ better simulation, having to heat brakes and tires ≠ a simulation, unless that is simulated perfectly, same with brake function, just about every mod or car is modelled by someone who either a) never drove it or b) doesn't have the skill, qualifications or understanding to drive it hard as they will in the game or simulator.

Which is different to GT6 how? You think that someone at Polyphony has racing experience with all 1200 of their cars, some of which are entirely fictional?

A simulation is something that attempts to replicate the rules of reality. A simulated car attempts to take measureable properties of the real car, and place them in a simulated environment to give something that reacts in a similar way to the real thing.

Simulators owned by F1 teams aren't full on perfect simulations. They know it can't be done. They're for keeping drivers on the ball for the track at the next round.

How good does a simulation have to be to be good? CFD isn't perfect, which is why F1 teams do on-track confirmation of their designs. But they still find it good enough for initial analysis and culling of what to research further and what not to bother with.

For a hobbyist playing a game, I'd imagine the bar is even lower. If the player can't tell the difference between the behaviour of the game and the behaviour of reality, then the simulation is good enough, regardless of how accurate it is.

I just find it funny that people go on and on about how x is such a great simulator, yet they haven't driven many or any of the cars, nor has the person/fair portion (if not all) of the people who modelled it.

I find it funny that people bring this up, when there's plenty of people who have driven cars in anger. It's not hard to take your daily driver to the local track, nor is it expensive in most countries.

Add to which there's a number of actual race drivers on this board, who are generally happy to share their opinions.

I see people say stupid things like "omg, I can drift so much better in Asseto Corsa, than in GT6. I'm not into drifting, but it is not easy and it is clear these people are not familiar with actually drifting in real life. Because you can't do x or x doesn't seem to work right - not always what you're using, consider it could be your driving and/or hardware.

Drifting is a damn sight easier in real life than in GT, if only because the car tends to stabilise itself. The wheel will find the point of least resistance, which is the point that you need to hold it at to maintain the drift. It's not a physics thing, which many people mistake it for, it's a FFB feeding off the physics thing. GT simply doesn't give you the information about your front tyres that you feel in other games with simulated steering racks and the like.

It's still bloody hard work to drift, but it's a lot easier when you're getting the information that you need to tell you why you're failing, at least.

 

[332i]

Too bad he's taking forever...

Not responding ≠ not paying attention.

 

[332i]

@Imari Whatever you say, man. If you think anyone who has anything to do with assetto corsa has driven the LaFerrari, you're high as a kite. Didn't read the rest of the long winded post, other than the first sentences of each paragraph. Told me all I needed to know

 

[Imari]

@Imari Whatever you say, man. If you think anyone who has anything to do has driven the LaFerrari, you're high as a kite.

Just because not many people have driven it, means it can't be simulated correctly?

Didn't read the rest of the long winded post, other than the first sentences of each paragraph. Told me all I needed to know

Are you kidding?

You write epic post, but then can't be bothered when somebody replies with something of equal length?

That you start off your post with:

Forza has good graphics, but the colors are a bit much in terms of saturation, every car handles too well and the physics are that of a good arcade racer. The physics are no where near as quality as GT6.

But then move into:

Don't be fooled and thinking your driving a simulation of anything, until you find out exactly how it was modelled and what defines the physics engine of said simulator/how old the engine and the technology is to have created it.

Tells me all I need to know. The bounds of GT6's simulation are not well understood. Polyphony is not forthcoming, and what is known isn't exactly awe inspiring. Camber issues, limited weight transfer, drivetrain torque, any number of basic tyre parameters like pressure, all missing.

FM5 isn't the world's greatest simulation, but it tries. It simulates a lot more than GT6 does, and gets a lot closer to the feeling of driving the cars I've owned.

 

[332i]

@Imari Haha you funny. Forza lol.

 

[Jay84]

Just on a random note how has GT ever been a "Driving Simulator" 0_0 shouldn't that be RACING simulator? Just something that's always bugged me :I

 

[SCER]

Just on a random note how has GT ever been a "Driving Simulator" 0_0 shouldn't that be RACING simulator? Just something that's always bugged me :I

I think they describe it as a driving simulator because they have a variety of cars and the physics are arguably quite good, but they don't really simulate real race events and are more focused on normal cars than series race cars.

 

[Tornado]

Just on a random note how has GT ever been a "Driving Simulator" 0_0 shouldn't that be RACING simulator? Just something that's always bugged me :I

Because that's what they put on the box, essentially. The early games were fashioned quite a bit after the BEST Motoring video series/magazine that was hitting its stride around the same time.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Not responding ≠ not paying attention.

Kaz is paying attention, but to how many votes a question gets. Than, he'll respond to them at a later date. Your post doesn't make any sense...

@Imari Haha you funny. Forza lol.

No. He's not being funny, he's right and I agree with him. How about you actually play Forza instead of blindly assuming "Oh GT6 is better than it despite me not even trying out the game yet". If you have watched Insidesimracing's video testing both GT6 and FM5, you'll know which game is better. In fact let me get that for you, which I doubt, you'll watch.

 

[The Stig Farmer]

 

[VBR]

VGT cars without interiors...

Polyphony Digital - making premium cars standard.


👍

 

[Jay84]

Standard IS the new Premium this season

 

[Samus]

@Imari Haha you funny. Forza lol.

Here we see the troll in his natural environment, using his favored hunting tactic. This act is designed to lure the others in the area, the troll hoping his agressive tactics will increase their hunger and anger, all the while finding the results amusing. An amazing creature, the troll, It's not every day you get to see them up close. We should feel honoured.

/Attenborough.

 

[Rustyhole]

Sure this has been said somewhere but with something like 35 Miatas... how hard would it been to have one stock interior for the STD models. Three or four for the Skyline/GT-R. Can't be insurmountable. Shouldn't be.

As for the physics, if PD focused on gameplay as opposed to graphics it'd be a better "game" and in my opinion 90% of GT players wouldn't care or be able to tell the difference.

Why is a simple "racing" game pushing or maxing out the PS3. 16 cars - at most; often 8; sometimes 4 INCLUDING THE PLAYER!! - and 1 track? Seriously??

Up to GT4, PD could sell itself on it's "unrivaled" graphics and "realistic" physics as most other games would need to pick one or the other. Since the late stages of the PS2 and the PS3 era, many developers have matched PD's accomplishments - Codemasters being the obvious - and in my opinion are on the cusp of eclipsing them with the PS4. Good for them! Why can they learn from PD (successes and failures) but PD seems unable or unwilling?

PD and Sony seem to care about turning GT into an "experience" but it seems to come at the expense of the "game" with GT Academy but beyond leaderboards... how many will ever experience it? Far less than 1%. We needed GT Academy for leaderboards? Really?? I have less interest at 43 in racing REAL cars than I did at 16 when my interest was virtually nonexistent. Maybe this is the future of games as they become "experiences" but it's one I'll pass on.

For those who say "just play the game then" my reply is it's no longer fun. The major drawing point for me was in-game testing/tuning and without it the game is just a series of often tedious races. Boring.

Every single thing in the game leaves me unfulfilled. Every. Single. Thing.

Personally, even if they make available the stuff that's missing (testing/tuning) and add new content (cars/tracks/creator/photo locations) I don't think I'd download it. I'm just done with GT.

 

[332i]

Kaz is paying attention, but to how many votes a question gets. Than, he'll respond to them at a later date. Your post doesn't make any sense...

No. He's not being funny, he's right and I agree with him. How about you actually play Forza instead of blindly assuming "Oh GT6 is better than it despite me not even trying out the game yet". If you have watched Insidesimracing's video testing both GT6 and FM5, you'll know which game is better. In fact let me get that for you, which I doubt, you'll watch.

I DO play FM5 lol. You also responded to my post in regards to Kaz with two different answers. In one post you're questioning when he will and why he hasn't answered anything yet. In another, suddenly you've answered your own question and I don't make sense. What? Ok.

My buddy has an Xbox one. Looks pretty, sounds good - physics are not as good and I'm not a teenager. I'm not interested in over saturated colors. I'm interested in using something that provides a more realistic driving experience. After the body roll/weight distribution bug and tire bug fixes in GT6...FM5 is no where near as realistic feeling. Maybe it is x wheel vs y wheel or wheel vs gamepad issues. I use a wheel. You can beg to differ on the two games. Differing opinions means I'm a troll apparently haha.

Samus, you seem to have problems with me no matter the thread. Every chance you get to call me a troll or wrong is taken.

 

[Tornado]

Dismissive, pretentious opinions where you mock the other person for questioning you rather than respond to what they said means you're a troll. If I had to guess their reasoning, at least.

 

[332i]

Dismissive, pretentious opinions where you mock the other person for questioning you rather than respond to what they said means you're a troll. If I had to guess their reasoning, at least.

Ah, yes. Following me around now, I see. Your usual responses to me does not apply to this one.

Sorry, but look upwards and read my posts. My post history is obviously there for you to sift through, as you've done already...but you were merely looking for posts that would support your argument against me, which is getting annoying. I said why I think what I do. I'm not going to give a long winded, single sentence paragraph like yourself. I say it how it is. If you don't like it or you disagree, that's on you.

I'm not the almighty. You can disagree without going through the roof, you know. If I give an answer, I'm not going to explain myself everytime single time when it comes to threads like these, dude.

I could write a short story about how much better the physics are in gt6, compared to FM5. I just don't care to. Whether I state a short and sweet response or take the long winded approach like yourself...this particular opinion of mine would have yielded bickering anyways. That and your post are absolutely pointless. At least I am giving my opinion with some sort of explanation, however long it is. All you're doing is following me around and dumping on me. Kick rocks, dude.

 

[Tornado]

Ah, yes. Following me around now, I see. Your usual responses to me does not apply to this one.

Or maybe this "discussion" is in a thread that I already tend to follow, and your flameout here is only related to the other one by how quickly you did both of them. You'll note I posted in this thread in response to someone else entirely regarding a different topic of discussion hours before Simon said anything.

My memory is certainly long, and there are certainly members who I enter a thread to see what they posted (usually, but not entirely, because the member has something that should be valueable insight; ie. Amar or Griffith500); but a 2 week period from a new member that fought as hard as he could to destroy his credibility just doesn't stand out that much in the sea of other members over the years who have done the same. Sorry.




By all means keep sharpening those knives and Google searching yourself, I suppose. One of these days you might stand out; though more realistically I suspect a year from now you won't even post on GTP anymore.

Sorry, but look upwards and read my posts.

"Forza 5 physics are that of a good arcade racer."
"I didn't bother reading most of your post in response to the one I made above, but you're still wrong."
"Ha ha you funny."

So now that I did that, what am I supposed to gleam from them?

My post history is obviously there for you to sift through, as you've done already...but you were merely looking for posts that would support your argument against me, which is getting annoying.

Egads. When you directly ask me to point out examples of something, I did so?



The horror.

I said why I think what I do.

Must have been hidden in the "Haha you funny. Forza lol." post.

I say it how it is. If you don't like it or you disagree, that's on you.

Not really, no; but okay. Not to mention the futility of joining a videogame forum so you can repeatedly announce how you're not interested in talking about things you said on a videogame forum, but that really is on you.

I'm not the almighty. You can disagree without going through the roof, you know. If I give an answer, I'm not going to explain myself everytime single time when it comes to threads like these, dude.

Once would be good.

I could write a short story about how much better the physics are in gt6, compared to FM5. I just don't care to.

I'm sure.

Whether I state a short and sweet response or take the long winded approach like yourself...this particular opinion of mine would have yielded bickering anyways.

Ah. So you're saying things to get a response out of people rather than any desire to debate the points you make. But Simon was still wrong, of course.

That and your post are absolutely pointless. At least I am giving my opinion with some sort of explanation, however long it is.

Yep. Saying that your earlier posts were unfairly labeled as trolling while still refusing to say anything substantive sure is more valuable to a discussion than pointing out that those earlier posts were, in fact, much more like Simon described them.

 

[332i]

You're making me out to appear as something I'm not by reading too far into my posts and explaining what you THINK I mean (which is always to make me look idiotic or ignorant) and you're twisting my words. That goes for every single thread in which you've responded to me; ie every chance you get. You're becoming very rhetorical and made a big deal of me telling that member he told a funny joke over forzas physics being better than GT6s. Nothing wrong with that. It is good nature joking and I also believe it to be true. Like I said, have used both. I'm tired of explanations and going back and forth.

Researching someone's posts and writing something like that up does not take merely a few minutes. You're obsessed with my posts/opinions/lack of xyz and beginning to go to odd and creepy lengths. Keep it up, dude. Only good things can happen from acting like this. Over opinions...

Internet or real life - does not matter. Still obsessive and odd as sin. You're getting out of hand. Either my opinion is wrong or not good enough to you. This because you feel my approach is telling people they are wrong and their opinion is not good enough. Be it in regards to any matter - look at the pot calling the kettle black.

I am tired of you riding me. If you don't like my opinion, don't like it and move on. I'm not being offensive or hostile. You're jacked up to the moon, though. Dont read it, put me on the ignore list or leave me alone. Or you can always stay like this and piss your day away, researching and disecting my posts and words. I don't have the time or energy to keep arguing with you.

 

[Fat Tyre]

The best thing Poli Delays could do is start from scratch. Throw away EVERYTHING... I would be happy to have "only" 250 ultra detailed cars where you can raise the bonnet and have a look at the engine moving as it revs and only laser scanned tracks, but well PD thinks we must have 70 Miatas/40 Skylines...