- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Only if people feel they are getting that much more out of it for 500+ usd, in buying a new console to replace the console they can already use it on. We will have to wait and see though.
The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread
- Thread starter HaylRayzor
- 6,682 comments
- 418,046 views
Only if people feel they are getting that much more out of it for 500+ usd, in buying a new console to replace the console they can already use it on. We will have to wait and see though.
- 8,015
- GTP_Royalton
Thats actually a very good comparison. It reminds me of my first post in this thread where I mention TGS 2012. I was expecting to see GT6 running on the PS3, with a launch date of Q1 or Q2 2014. Instead, nothing. Fast forward a few months, and Sony announces the PS4 in February. 10x more power then PS3, new features like share and live gameplay streaming. OK, surely Sony is not talking about GT6 because they are planning it as a PS4 title in 2014. They will give Drive Club to the launch, and have GT6 carry the console after that.
And then they come out and say GT6 is going to be on PS3 around the same time as the PS4 launch? PS4 is not backwards compatible, so I will not be able to play it on the console. Which takes us back to your comparison. Why are you releasing a new Ipad at the same time you release the very best app exclusively for the old Ipad?
Furthermore, we will have to wait as many as 4 years to see how great the app can be on the newer Ipad. We saw just how gorgeous a certain other racer looks on a next gen console. Now imagine Polyphony Digital going to work on a console that is estimated 33-50% more powerful then the rival's console. Such magnificence will be put on hold for years because...its a good (short-term)business decision?
Sorry...but I cannot agree with not striving for excellence and the very best of quality. Aiming for the best and creating the best can be very profitable. If that wasnt the case, we should all be driving Honda Civics because who needs a Porsche or a Ferrari? People will pay 10x the price of a Honda Civic to experience premium quality and performance. They would have done the same for a GT6 PS4 at launch or shortly after launch. Releasing on PS3 is the cowards way.
And BTW, people hate new consoles because they're not instant gratification, meaning you have to put thought into saving up for them. You cant just walk down the street and buy them like you do a $60 game. Or they feel like the new console is being "forced" on them. Its not Sony's fault you waited until the end of the PS3's life and right before the beginning of the PS4's life to get a PS3. Im sure its hard to find someone whos had a PS3 for 6+ years thats not ready for the PS4
Doesnt account for the drop from GT3 to GT4. As I've said earlier, GT4 gets praise as a bigger, better GT3, when in reality it wasn't, and the sales showed that. GT4 was the epitome of quantity over quality, though GT6 may give it a run for that crown.
If you talk to TenaciousD, each Forza title has a budget that vastly exceeds Polyphony Digital's. Thats partly how he explains Polyphony Digital's tardiness when it comes to releasing new titles.
Gran Turismo is not primarily a title for Sony to generate revenue through software sales. Its arguably their biggest system seller. People use to buy consoles just for Final Fantasy. They use to buy consoles just for Gran Turismo. So even if a Gran Turismo Title leaves Polyphony Digital in the red somewhat, it doesnt matter if that game sold Sony a few million extra consoles. In a very similar way Sony will likely sell the PS4 at a loss. But its something they must do to establish an install base. Putting GT6 on the PS4 early its life may initially be done at a loss, but such a plan could be very rewarding in the long run, as GT3 and its early console life launch was.
What happens after Polyphony Digital sells 5 or 6 million copies of GT6 on PS3? They pay for development and then? They pocket some cash? Really, thats it? This is about generating profit instead of pushing your brand forward? Seems rather shortsighted to me. PS3 will continue to sell strong with or without GT6. Its not like Microsoft is releasing a new Halo on the 360 at the end of the year, and Sony is totally defenseless with the PS3. In fact Microsoft is all but finished with the 360. Sony wants to ride the PS3 as long as possible like they did with the PS2, but again, the PS3 is not the PS2. The PS3 has way more staying power then the PS2, and thats a danger for Sony and the PS4.
The problem here is Polyphony Digital and the company's inability to prioritize. If you're going to add weather or time of day change, do it right and do it on every track. If your're going to add damage, do it right and on every car. If you're going to add NASCAR, top gear, WRC, etc, then do it right and flesh it out.
They take on so much, take years upon years working on it, and then inevitably release it unfinished. Just like the half-baked karting which they admitted was a GT6 feature, but they decided on throwing it into GT5 because of all the countless delays.
You only have to look at the countless animations and assets seen in trailers that never make it into the final game to witness the gross waste of time and resources that happens at Polyphony Digital.
This is a racing game for crying out loud. Model cars in an orderly manner, some tracks, improve the physics, and release whatever you have finished every 2 years. Its not rocket science.
I think they lost more then just casuals.
Theres alot of guys I remember from this forum in the build up for GT5, even from the GT5P days, who have't been back on the forum in months or years. I watched them play the game on my friends list and kept track of their progress in game. Most only played sporadically for the first week or two and then just vanished.
I very much doubt they will be back for GT6. Polyphony Digital really tarnished their reputation with GT5, and the 3 year wait for that weak announcement 10 days ago did not help. All the apology patches didnt matter much because many people like myself had given up on GT5 long before all of that.
A real apology would have been a GT6 last November, but that opportunity is gone.
Then theres those who will be buying a PS4 this Novemember instead of GT6.
My estimate for GT5 sales is
4.0M Europe
1.5M North America
1.0M Rest of World
.50M - Japan
7M max
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TheeFrogmanlego
(Banned)
- 1,546
- Downey
- frogmanlego
- 8,015
- GTP_Royalton
12 months isnt exaclty "right before PS2"
Q4 2012 for GT6 on PS3 would have been fine
TheeFrogmanlego
(Banned)
- 1,546
- Downey
- frogmanlego
Gt2 , late 1999 , ps2 came out march second
MEh your logic's flawed, go cry..
People who I know aren't huge gt fans are hyped.. when i put it on my face book , seven of my friends who are casual gamer's were all like, they were all "Yeah Gt6 , pre order..👍" Its a House hold name! Each cod gets worst and worst, the real hard core stay, the ones who are on the edge leave and the ignorant majority still buy it..
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- 5,666
- Paint booth
- FMecha_EXE
Especially as more to the point, GT2 was released in Europe on January 2000, exactly 3 months before Japanese PS2 launch (March 2000).
Mind you, GT3 was developed initially as GT2000 because they aimed for the game to be released in the launch year of PS2. And GT2000 was supposed to use upscaled GT2 props, while GT3 used brand-new props that shown PS2's power at that time.
Earth, listen, sometimes sales numbers don't measure success of a title - reviews do.
- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
I'm sorry Earth, if the product is not worth the money I simply won't buy it and I'm talking about the PS4. I'm one of those that got a PS3 on launch and I still use it, in fact, it's the only PS3 I've ever bought. So far, I'd rather keep using my PS3 and 360 or build a PC than buying a next-gen console.
TheeFrogmanlego
(Banned)
- 1,546
- Downey
- frogmanlego
Im upgrading to a PS4. Despite how much I love my PS3 , I enjoyed my ps1 to death, skipped two and that was the biggest mistake I ever made. Im glad GT6 is on the ps3 tho
- 2,143
- The Track
- youngun_great
Same and it'll been played ALOT. Not even a diode failure. But need something new fresh and up to date, its like keeping a old 720p plasma TV rather than upgrading to a 1080p led TV. But the gloss look never got old.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,439
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Oddly enough none of the claimed figures has to date been backed up with a credible source, but way to avoid the actual point raised.
The GT series most certainly does generate revenue, profit however is a different story.
The first release sells consoles, the second doesn't need to, it needs to generate profit to fund further development and keep the studio and Sony funded.
If all you focus on is units and market share you end up like GM.
Sold, not sell.
And that;s exactly the point you are missing, the first GT on a console will cover development costs and may make a small profit, further releases will then generate significantly more profit as the bulk of the dev has already been done.
This applies for any of the titles you listed.
PS2 was launched in Japan in March 2000, GT3 came out in Japan in April 2001, that's over a year after launch!
Its not even remotely comparable to a console launch day release, this is not the first time you have made misleading claims of this nature and I would ask in future that you use accurate information and provide sources.
Shareholders get a return on the investments they have made and people get paid, oddly that's how business works.
Do you really think its any different at T10?
This has nothing to do with shifting PS3's, so please don't use a strawman argument. This is about using an install base to generate revenue and profit, which is sound business practice.
The PS4 will sell just fine without a GT title and a year to two after launch will see an install base in place to make a GT title viable.
- 1,492
- Germany
- KiroKai
- KiroKai
Probably because people learned from the PS3/GT5 disaster. People bought the PS3 at launch expecting GT5 to be released in 2009 or earlier, and they not only had to wait longer than expected but their PS3s also got old by the time GT5 was released. If someone bought a 40GB PS3 at launch for GT5 and paid more money than I did for my 320GB Slim PS3 in a bundle with GT5 in December 2010, there's reason for him to be mad, especially when his PS3 died some time back in 2010 with the yellow light of death.
Do you expect these same people will now go and buy a PS4 at launch? Why? What are those 'other racing games' you're talking about? Drive Club? That's the only PS4 exclusive racing game announced so far, and I'm sorry, but that game doesn't seem to be very reliant on PS4's powers. The trailer shown so far was all fancy and social and connected and exciting, when really the gameplay is nothing more than another arcade game on PS3 level with slightly better graphics.
[Edit: Embedded video wasn't displaying Drive Club. Excuse my lack of knowledge on Drive Club and pCars, though I'm really worried about pCars now, considering the crap sound and arcade-ish physics in the video...]
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- 9,232
- Solid Gone
- MeanElf
I don't think many people hate the PS4 - I'll be getting one when it comes out as there will be some very fine games available at or soon after launch. It's going to be a fine bit of kit.
Perhaps the perception of hate comes about because of GT6 being on PS3. Well, we'd all like the game to have access to better graphics, processing capacity etc. However, Sony have stated their resons and I'm happy with that as it means we get another GT title quite soon.
The other reason I suppose is that this is the epic whining and crying thread where some have been epicly whining and crying; for no reason other than because they can.
It's not like GT6 will be the last GT game ever - GT7 will come on the PS4 within two years or so and so the whole thing will start up again. Playing the long game isn't a bad thing.
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- 10,956
- Canada
I'll may get the PS4 as for DriveClub, and wait for GT7 to arrive while enjoying both GT6 and DriveClub. 👍
- 5,666
- Paint booth
- FMecha_EXE
Except that, once again, GT3 was supposed to be released within the launch year. And that is in the form of Gran Turismo 2000.
Mind you, the people over GT3 forums went over this. GT3 came out in 2001 only because, in my opinion, PD's testers did not like some of the GT2000's stuff (physics and/or graphics, most likely) and PD knew making changes to those would behind the original schedule of 2000 release so GT3 was born.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,439
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Except that, once again, GT3 was supposed to be released within the launch year. And that is in the form of Gran Turismo 2000.
Mind you, the people over GT3 forums went over this. GT3 came out in 2001 only because, in my opinion, PD's testers did not like some of the GT2000's stuff (physics and/or graphics, most likely) and PD knew making changes to those would behind the original schedule of 2000 release so GT3 was born.
Which doesn't change the fact that it didn't come out at launch.
Intentions (particularly marketing ones) are not relevant, what actually happened is.
- 5,666
- Paint booth
- FMecha_EXE
- 8,015
- GTP_Royalton
And it was almost a year for the two biggest Playstation territories
Scaff
Why would the budget of a Forza be any less then a budget of a GT game? Afterall, Turn 10 develops more content in a much shorter period of time then Polyphony Digital does. So theres one of two reasons for that. Either Turn 10 has more resources and thus a larger workforce to create more content with faster, or Polyphony Digital grossly mismanages equal or greater resources. T
Scaff
I cant argue this point, but I can say the timing of the GT6 release was botched very badly. It should have already been here by now. Stubbornly holding fast to a "first game sells consoles the second is largely profit" strategy will bite them.
Scaff
We're talking about Japan, why? Japan accounted for just 15% of GT3 sales and 8% of GT5 sales.
GT3 was released 8 months after the North America and Europe PS2 launches. Those two territories made up a vast majority of GT3 sales. 8 months qualifies as early in a console's life. Doesnt matter how early or late Japan got it when they're such a small portion of the GT fanbase.
Scaff
And your reaction when the GT6 PS3 bundle shows up? Sony remembers how the PS2 outsold the PS3 for a very, very long time. They want to play that card again, this time with a twist, releasing their highest profile exclusive on the console this late in it's life.
Scaff
How is it not viable to release GT6 on PS4 at launch? We're seeing another big racing game release at an upcoming launch and there have been other big titles at launch in the past as well, like Mario 64 with the N64, Halo on the original Xbox, or Zelda Twilight Princess at the Wii launch.
How did those games fair despite releasing on a console with initially 0 install base? Halo went on to sell 6.5M copies, Mario 64 sold almost 12 million copies, and Twilight Princess sold almost 7M copies.
So why is Polyphony Digital not learning from their mistakes? This was their opportunity to get the ball rolling early in a generation.
Also, thats not Driveclub, thats Project Cars.
THIS is Drive Club
- 40,766
Doesn't matter for the purposes of your point. Don't get to say "well, that was only one market" as if that changes things when your point is that PD should have taken advantage of the next system instead of releasing it for one that is about to be replaced.
PS2 hit in March, and only didn't have a worldwide launch because of massive production shortages at the time. GT2 released in December of the previous year on the older system, not taking advantage of any of the benefits that would have come from just making it a PS2 game (and there were many games that released around that time where that criticism was leveled, so it isn't a new idea. Driver 2 off the top of my head had that pointed at it too). That was a period of 3 months before the next system hit amongst launch hype was so large that it killed sales of every other system on the market without shifting a single unit; and if you want to make the argument about what the PS4 could do over the PS3 being a reason people won't buy GT6, PD were showing off GT2000 on the PS2 months before GT2 had even come out!
JEMcG
(Banned)
- 639
- Glasgow
2 things I hope are fixed for GT6...
I enjoy the physics on GT games, that's about it. Until I'm on the track I don't enjoy the game at all, I would go so far as to say it's frustrating and ridiculous - this goes for everything from menu's to damage.
The European racing cars need seriously updated. I don't like how they managed to squeeze in lots of almost identical cars but have missed the McLaren MP4 12C GT- a legend in the making already.
I enjoy the physics on GT games, that's about it. Until I'm on the track I don't enjoy the game at all, I would go so far as to say it's frustrating and ridiculous - this goes for everything from menu's to damage.
The European racing cars need seriously updated. I don't like how they managed to squeeze in lots of almost identical cars but have missed the McLaren MP4 12C GT- a legend in the making already.
- 2,037
- Colorado
GT4 brought in a lot of first time PS2 buyers, very close to the end of the console's life too, and opened up a new generation of late adopters to PS2 exclusives, essentially extending the life of the game and the PS2 well past the PS3 release. I had several friends who didn't own a PS2 until very late in it's life just because of GT4. The same could happen with GT6, allowing Sony and retailers to sell off PS3 overstock. This may actually be a strategic move to sell off overstock. One could also argue that the adoption of PS4s early on will be by dedicated Playstation fans who could care less about when GT7 comes out because they'll adopt early anyway. Then just when interest is starting to wane, PD debuts one hell of a GT7, boosting PS4 adoption among less dedicated Playstation gamers. Speculation as all this may be, I gaurantee you that these strategies are discussed often and in great detail by strategists and executives everyday.
- 177
- NeoXenzaka
GT6 is dumb, period.
I thought the idea of making a new iteration was for new features...PD has waltzed right into left field. I will be buying an Xbox One and Forza 5 and making new friends.
GT6 looks PLAYED OUT
I thought the idea of making a new iteration was for new features...PD has waltzed right into left field. I will be buying an Xbox One and Forza 5 and making new friends.
GT6 looks PLAYED OUT
- 177
- NeoXenzaka
im going to have to delete my account after how BORING GT6 looks. thanks Kaz, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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- <--- This place
- CHALLENGER1ON1
- 13,865
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Yes and no. The people doing all the hard work are still traditional employees. The community in this case is just providing playtesting, bug finding and feedback. Very good feedback, it turns out. But they're not actually writing code or producing art assets.
The community improves the quality of things that would be done regardless of whether they were helping or not. PD could do a similar thing, if they chose.
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- HaylRayzor
Those are some great whines. Not the most original, but a first class effort. Probably couldn't do much better while staying within the AUP.
Personally I won't buy GT6 unless it comes with a real car like the Grid 2 BAC Mono Edition.
Nah, I'm kidding.
