The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[HaylRayzor]

yup 54s from last to first, around a series of 5 moving chicanes. Not very inspiring, I am gutted.

That AI is absolutely no better than GT5. It can't be that hard to get an AI car to run quick. The AI looks like they're on a parade lap.

 

[napalmhardcore]

@Wolfe Didn't you make the "GT4 the fake driving simulator" video or am I confusing you with someone else?

 

[Zer0]

GTP is a marginal portion of buyers and of opinions, which is highly biased. Look at reviews and what people think of GT5 in other sites that matter considerably more than this one. The praised games are those in the competition and those are the designated console sellers, not the GT series anymore.

Well, did GT5 meet your 6 years of development expectations?
Was it better than other games available in late 2010, as a whole game or in any individual aspect?
At the time of the poll you gave GT5 a 9 to 9.5 grade. Does that mean other games get a 10?

What? there is no need to go to other sites when this is the most critic site with GT5 in existance, this thread exist and have 90 pages for a good reason. Or maybe a marginal percentage of users are making it look like that? because the poll does not reflect the forum disappointing ambient. Look at who scored the game at 0-0.5 for example. Think about that.

A "9 - 9.5" does mean that the game have room to improve and is not perfect but is a really good experience. What others games? the same game would be that 10 if it was better on all of its original features.

For the rest, I guess that you don't have read some of the previous links because answers most of your questions and put much of your claims into perspective.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-10-21-reassessing-gran-turismo-5-article
http://www.play-mag.co.uk/features/top-4-games-that-needed-a-delay/
http://gamer.blorge.com/2012/11/05/...-million-encroaching-on-forza-lifetime-sales/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/15/gran-turismo-5-10-million-sold-and-counting
http://67.227.255.239/forum/showpost.php?p=66387361&postcount=1

Where are the reviews of GT5-XL? where are their scores? Do you think that GT5 now would score the same as the launch date less featured, less polished, with less content and more limited GT5? To what scores and reviews are you backing at? Think about that.

 

[mr_serious]

...stuff

True fans are those who come to a fan site to voice their criticisms in the hope things will get fixed.

If it has the option for excellent, challenging, offline racing you won't find me here (in the Epic Whining & Crying Thread) complaining. Sadly the gamescom videos seem to show some new cars & new menus, but the racing is just as bad as GT5.

What is the point of a racing game with no racing?

[edit] If I hadn't had so much enjoyment from the previous installments of the series, I would have played it, thought it was rubbish, cursed myself for wasting the money on it & just forget about it. Complaints are a sign of love for the series and despair at it's recent lack of focus.

 

[KinLM]

Oh, I'm sorry. I had no idea you were being sarcastic. The joys of conversing over the internet..

But yes, the sounds are still poor

Its alright I know firsthand that sarcasm is easily lost through text.

And yes the sounds are poor. Such a shame because this is the one thing about Forza that I absolutely love. I'll play that game sometimes just so I can hear an F50 GT V12 or the 905 LM V10, or the Ultima GTR V8, or the NSX V6, or the Lotus Exige I4.

 

[Zer0]

Some pages back, I pointed out that the sales figures don't mean anything. And now I know that it is hilarious.

So, GT5 sell 10,6 million copies. Few weeks ago, PD released some information regarding the game, saying that in a given day, 100.000 players spend some time in GT5.

If numbers are all that matters to analyse and criticize a game, anyone could say that, in 2013, 10,5 million people can't stand the game anymore. Seems to me that all those casual, real world players, simply don't play the game, either because GT5 fails to deliver what the players expect, either because, beeing a casual player, they've got tired of the countless hours of gameplay that GT5 requires (wich is a good thing). Maybe even they get frustrated with the game in the same level as many of us are. The difference is that they don't love GT as we do.

So, what is the point of sell a buzilion copies in three years if nobody plays the thing?

Then all the same 100k players play the game every day?

This thread is getting crazier and crazier in their doomed theories. 100k p./day is crazy for a game like GT released nearly three years back.

 

[avens]

What? there is no need to go to other sites when this is the most critic site with GT5 in existance, this thread exist and have 90 pages for a good reason. Or maybe a marginal percentage of users are making it look like that? because the poll does not reflect the forum disappointing ambient. Look at who scored the game at 0-0.5 for example. Think about that.

Really? This is a fans site. That statement truly doesn't resist further analysis.

A "9 - 9.5" does mean that the game have room to improve and is not perfect but is a really good experience. What others games? the same game would be that 10 if it was better on all of its original features.

How many racing games ever made deserved a 9 to 9.5 and how many a 10? It depends on who's being asked.
Problem is though Forza4 and the F1 series are globally considered the better games on consoles. Are those a 9. a 10 or an 11? If they are a 9 then GT5 itself cannot be 9.5 or 9, nor higher than 8 really.

For the rest, I guess that you don't have read some of the previous links because answers most of your questions and put much of your claims into perspective.

Metacritic doesn't lie and even then the score is inflated, for the reasons said in #1785 and metacritic itself includes Sony sites. Remove those and it's a very lackluster score for an AAA title.

Where are the reviews of GT5-XL? where are their scores? Do you think that GT5 now would score the same as the launch date less featured, less polished, with less content and more limited GT5? To what scores and reviews are you backing at? Think about that.

That's a patch, not a brand new game.

Even if we consider it as one game problem is standards increase year after year, meaning that GT5-XL competes with Forza4 including its DLC of more than a hundred unique cars, the newest F1 game of the time and so on. And lets face it, the improvements from Forza3 to Forza4 are substantially bigger than GT5 to GT5-XL, so it would be rather lower than GT5 was because nowadays racing games and sims are better than they used to be in 2010 while the jump from GT5 to GT5-XL was lower than what other games achieved.

I'm a GT fan too, but being objective means acknowledging GT5 was not perfect, that the competition of the time was better and that some aspects need to be re-done from scratch. Only time will tell if the tendency will continue with GT6 against Forza5, which will be released in the same year, but from footage available it seems the gap is becoming wider with each version.

 

[napalmhardcore]

Then all the same 100k players play the game every day?

This thread is getting crazier and crazier in their doomed theories. 100k p./day is crazy for a game like GT released nearly three years back.

You laugh, but it is actually reasonable and logical that the majority is the same people playing regularly.

 

[Zer0]

True fans are those who come to a fan site to voice their criticisms in the hope things will get fixed.

If it has the option for excellent, challenging, offline racing you won't find me here (in the Epic Whining & Crying Thread) complaining. Sadly the gamescom videos seem to show some new cars & new menus, but the racing is just as bad as GT5.

What is the point of a racing game with no racing?

[edit] If I hadn't had so much enjoyment from the previous installments of the series, I would have played it, thought it was rubbish, cursed myself for wasting the money on it & just forget about it. Complaints are a sign of love for the series and despair at it's recent lack of focus.

Yes but at times things gets out of control and this thread is a clear intent of contention. If all the criticisms were in the hope of things to get fixed this thread would not be necessary, not all are sincere opinions from the fans and is easy to spot.

 

[Wolfe]

@Wolfe Didn't you make the "GT4 the fake driving simulator" video or am I confusing you with someone else?

That's me. For what it's worth, I think GT5 was a step forward, and I'm curious about GT6's new physics. I'll certainly be giving it a rental or two like I did GT5.

 

[napalmhardcore]

Yes but at times things gets out of control and this thread is a clear intent of contention. If all the criticisms were in the hope of things to get fixed this thread would not be necessary, not all are sincere opinions from the fans and is easy to spot.

Go on, point out examples. You and others have made statements like this but don't confront someone directly. Who are these trolls and what are they saying that is just for the sake of being negative?

 

[Zer0]

Go on, point out examples. You and others have made statements like this but don't confront someone directly. Who are these trolls and what are they saying that is just for the sake of being negative?

It is against the AUP and the fine trolling is allowed in GTP meanwhile don't break any AUP rule, so is better not to open that can of worms.

 

[amar212]

My comment was aimed only at referenced "last few pages" that were hilarious becuase laid assumptions.

I find deeply unacceptable putting me into "defender" or "apologist" train.

I am very sorry if my comment was understood anthing different. Crticism and constructive crticism is something that ultimately made GT5 a better game and will make GT6 even better. Without voice of GTP we wouldn't have GT as good as it is now.

In the same time, I deeply do not understand hyperboles, demands for unreasonable, not taking constraints and tradeoffs into concern or voicing opinions as facts.

I have said previously, I am sorry if my comment was taken out of the desired context.

 

[napalmhardcore]

It is against the AUP and the fine trolling is allowed in GTP meanwhile don't break any AUP rule, so is better not to open that can of worms.

It is not against AUP rules to challenge a statement you don't agree with as long as you are not abusive. You make the accusation that "some people" are just using this thread to needlessly hate on Gran Turismo. I am not seeing these posts you are speaking about and the only posts you have responded to have contained reasonable arguments for why Polyphony need to up their game and in what ways they should do it. If people were dropping into this thread and leaving single posts effectively saying "Gran Turismo sucks" I might agree with you, but that isn't the case.

That's me. For what it's worth, I think GT5 was a step forward, and I'm curious about GT6's new physics. I'll certainly be giving it a rental or two like I did GT5.

I had a conversation with you years ago (via Youtube) when I was looking to expand my horizons on the driving game front. Thanks for the recommendation of Enthusia and RBR. I've since bought a PC and have amassed a collection of sims for it (you also mentioned that if sims were my thing it might be good idea to get a PC).

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Go on, point out examples. You and others have made statements like this but don't confront someone directly. Who are these trolls and what are they saying that is just for the sake of being negative?

You've asked him to back up a claim with proof? Well, see him in about two weeks, then. And if he does happen to respond; this is a user who thinks posting links that aren't even about GT (reference) are somehow on-topic, so don't be too surprised if the "proof" provided will leave something to be desired.

(NINJA-EDIT) Called it.

A large amount of Amar's post makes sense - I would expect that 👍 - but the talk of double standards is something I want to touch on. If people requesting now-standard features of the genre like non-comical visual damage or a livery editor are missing the point of the "essence of GT", or "what GT is all about", or simply personal preferences masquerading as required features, well, okay... but by that same token, I sure hope the people who are saying such things don't have any potential criticisms or ideas for improvements for any other games. Because, well, that's not what those games are about. And thus, perhaps no discussions should take place on any game, and how it can be improved, because certainly all the criticisms are just players expressing their own personal desires for a game, and those might not line up with what the devs have planned for their game.

Were we wrong to criticize GT4's lack of online playability, or GT5's simplistic matchmaking? I guess the more robust online aspect of GT5 just wasn't the essence of the series... oh. Wait. And for those of us who were unhappy with GT4's lack of visual customization (with no ability to change a car's colour after purchase), how would the "essence" argument hold up now, what with GT5 allowing all sorts of freedom to colour our cars as we want?

I should also point out (again), that there have been warnings and infractions, even bans, handed out to those who are needlessly abusive to the point of insulting Kaz and Co. If people can't handle things maturely, then they're treated appropriately. I bring this up because, unsurprisingly, the people who are most likely to cry wolf troll (and thus, fall into name-calling at the expense of countering an argument) aren't the ones who are being critical.

(EDIT) - I didn't take it in that sort of context, Amar. Also, just to be clear, the paragraph or two above, while referencing your post, isn't a direct response to you, but also a comment on some prevalent attitudes around here.

 

[Nurburgthing.]

You mean you don't like opinions that don't agree with yours, gotch *wink and the gun*

Opions opposite to mine are great. Its how they're used is what bothers me.

Never ceases to amaze me just how many people have been butt-hurt by GT5.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

SlipZtrEm, what games in the genre have these "now-standard features" like non-comical visual damage or a livery editor? Why do you consider them "now-standard features," and also is it a problem for the genre if PD spend time doing stuff that are not "now-standard features?"

I wonder how many people on this thread have sent feedback regarding things to improve on in GT series directly to PDI.

 

[napalmhardcore]

Opions opposite to mine are great. Its how they're used is what bothers me.

Never ceases to amaze me just how many people have been butt-hurt by GT5.

That is so annoying. I just went back and amended my spelling while you were replying. If you had just waited a minute

Edit: And now I've made another mistake. For some reason I am unable to respond to your posts without error. You have an interesting and unusual super power.

The gaming community are a demanding bunch. I don't think people would have been so negative if it hadn't taken so long. After five years a lot of people were expecting to have their socks blown off but were underwhelmed.

 

[machschnel]

is it a problem for the genre if PD spend time doing stuff that are not "now-standard features?".

No.

But that's not what this thread is about. Mostly, it seems to be populated by people who are disappointed (hence the whinging and crying) that Gran Turismo isn't evolving along the path they'd like. Good AI, improved sound, livery editor etc.

Other's obviously like and approve of the direction Gran Turismo is taking. Nothing at all wrong with that, but why people from this group persist to post in a thread that was made for people who aren't so happy is beyond me.

We (pessimists) are trying to keep our "negativity" out of other threads. Kindly keep your optimism out of this one.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

SlipZtrEm, what games in the genre have these "now-standard features" like non-comical visual damage or a livery editor? Why do you consider them "now-standard features," and also is it a problem for the genre if PD spend time doing stuff that are not "now-standard features?"

You mean which games don't have damage models that look like this?

I've yet to find one this generation, in this genre. I won't even count a game like GTA IV (and likely V) since those aren't licensed cars.

I consider a feature pretty standard when it's in the majority of the games in a particular genre. It's also a bit... well, disappointing, for lack of a better word, that Kaz has known how much a livery editor has been a request since well before GT5, but whenever he's asked about one, gives the vague "maybe" answer. If some fans are right, and PD really just has no desire to give players a true livery editor (despite that being an incredibly powerful feature to bolster the idea of a feeling of personal ownership), then Kaz could stop the jig around short shrubbery and just say no.

As for working on non-standard features? Sure, some of the work they do is innovative and can therefore set the bar for the rest of the competition. A Photomode is pretty much required of a racing game these days, as an example. If the rumoured GPS feature really will let us use our smartphones to get coordinates out there in the real world to translate to a track, then that's something I can see making big waves in the industry.

Are a bunch of make-believe cars going to further the game, other than allow PD to pat themselves on the back for having such close relations with the automakers? I don't see it, and I'm even a fan of concept cars. But considering some of them might not even end up with real-world versions, they're little more than an artist's sketch turned into a 3D car in GT6, and I feel that time could've been spent elsewhere. Like, making some Premiums to replace the outdated Standards.

Which brings me to my main point, and it's not the first time I've said it; I'd rather a consistent experience, an overall more level feeling of quality, compared to PD's increasing turns of peaks and valleys. For every awe-inspiring sunset as you blast around the 'Ring in an LFA, there's a smeary Range Rover lapping a ported GT4 track against some made-up Lexii.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Which brings me to my main point, and it's not the first time I've said it; I'd rather a consistent experience, an overall more level feeling of quality, compared to PD's increasing turns of peaks and valleys. For every awe-inspiring sunset as you blast around the 'Ring in an LFA, there's a smeary Range Rover lapping a ported GT4 track against some made-up Lexii.

Well put... this pretty much sums up my feelings on GT these days.

 

[napalmhardcore]

You mean which games don't have damage models that look like this?

I've yet to find one this generation, in this genre. I won't even count a game like GTA IV (and likely V) since those aren't licensed cars.

I consider a feature pretty standard when it's in the majority of the games in a particular genre. It's also a bit... well, disappointing, for lack of a better word, that Kaz has known how much a livery editor has been a request since well before GT5, but whenever he's asked about one, gives the vague "maybe" answer. If some fans are right, and PD really just has no desire to give players a true livery editor (despite that being an incredibly powerful feature to bolster the idea of a feeling of personal ownership), then Kaz could stop the jig around short shrubbery and just say no.


Are a bunch of make-believe cars going to further the game, other than allow PD to pat themselves on the back for having such close relations with the automakers? I don't see it, and I'm even a fan of concept cars. But considering some of them might not even end up with real-world versions, they're little more than an artist's sketch turned into a 3D car in GT6, and I feel that time could've been spent elsewhere. Like, making some Premiums to replace the outdated Standards.

Which brings me to my main point, and it's not the first time I've said it; I'd rather a consistent experience, an overall more level feeling of quality, compared to PD's increasing turns of peaks and valleys. For every awe-inspiring sunset as you blast around the 'Ring in an LFA, there's a smeary Range Rover lapping a ported GT4 track against some made-up Lexii.

I agree but especially with your main point. Consistency of quality is one of the reasons I have a love/hate relationship with with both GT5 and even more so with RFactor. When they first released details about how some cars were to be premium and others to be standard NOBODY I spoke to liked the idea. Surely before deciding to go ahead with this idea Kaz gathered some feedback. So did he just ignore everyone or are the opinions about standard/premium drastically different in Japan?

 

[Gerarghini]

Like, making some Premiums to replace the outdated Standards.

The problem is PD didn't replace the old XJR-9 when the new premium came out when there were no fundamental reasons to keep the old one. Yeah, the old one has different rims but can't PD make that an option in GT Auto?

It's looks like they might do that again after seeing PD's list of cars carried over from GT5.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Opions opposite to mine are great. Its how they're used is what bothers me.

Never ceases to amaze me just how many people have been butt-hurt by GT5.

How do you expect people to react to a game that fell short in areas that previous Gran Turismo games have done better in? And that people had to wait 5 years for on top of it?

 

[Tornado]

Where are the reviews of GT5-XL? where are their scores? Do you think that GT5 now would score the same as the launch date less featured, less polished, with less content and more limited GT5? To what scores and reviews are you backing at? Think about that.

Think about what? GT5 XL came out over a year after the game launched, and was largely similar to a Game of the Year edition offered by most other publishers. In an industry that spends a lot of time criticizing itself over publishers releasing unfinished games to instead patch them up later, why should anyone expect their game (let alone a game with the backstory of GT5) to be re-rated after they spend 12 months fixing it up from release?

It is against the AUP and the fine trolling is allowed in GTP meanwhile don't break any AUP rule, so is better not to open that can of worms.

It's not at all against the AUP to call out or otherwise note statements that have little/no basis in reality besides being another stick to beat something with.

The problem is PD didn't replace the old XJR-9 when the new premium came out when there were no fundamental reasons to keep the old one. Yeah, the old one has different rims but can't PD make that an option in GT Auto?

It's looks like they might do that again after seeing PD's list of cars carried over from GT5.

I'm not entirely sure that we'll see both XJR-9s or both Alpine A110s. I mean... PD could just copy everything, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did; but I think they might have just copied GT5's car list without actually sitting down and noting everything that was on it.

 

[HarVee]

The problem is PD didn't replace the old XJR-9 when the new premium came out when there were no fundamental reasons to keep the old one. Yeah, the old one has different rims but can't PD make that an option in GT Auto?

There is a logical reason why Polyphony didn't remove the standard XJR-9 from GT5 when the premium quality one came along, and it is simply because they can't remove a car that came with the game originally and replace it with DLC content because then no one apart from those who bought the DLC would have access to said vehicle anymore.

 

[sk8er913]

I hope they didn't waste any dev time with racing suits, horns and helmets... who ever even sees them? all it does is make the GUI more complicated than it has to be... :\ - My only complaint on GT.

 

[HarVee]

horns... who ever even sees them?

No one. But that is simply because you don't see a car horn in GT - you hear it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

There is a logical reason why Polyphony didn't remove the standard XJR-9 from GT5 when the premium quality one came along, and it is simply because they can't remove a car that came with the game originally and replace it with DLC content because then no one apart from those who bought the DLC would have access to said vehicle anymore.

Good point. Also, you can't go removing a car that's in someone's garage robbing them of content. Of course that doesn't explain premiums and standards of the same car being in GT6

 

[Gerarghini]

There is a logical reason why Polyphony didn't remove the standard XJR-9 from GT5 when the premium quality one came along, and it is simply because they can't remove a car that came with the game originally and replace it with DLC content because then no one apart from those who bought the DLC would have access to said vehicle anymore.

Here's my 2 cents. PD releases a few premium cars for free whether the NASCAR cars, C7, FR-S etc. Why couldn't they have done it with the XJR-9? It's already in the game to begin with. What they could've done is include it in a title update so that way everyone has access to the car. It's a premium upgrade, not an entirely new car. That's what I didn't like that I'm being charged for a car that's basically already in the game