The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[HKS racer]

I'll trade any day all the new cars, tracks we have seen in GT6 with some competitive, realistic behaviour AI, a custom event creator and a bare and bone livery editor.

PD efforts are not going in the *gameplay* direction, they are adding more details, more cars more tracks, when biggest GT5 problems were on gameplay.

 

[napalmhardcore]

I'll trade any day all the new cars, tracks we have seen in GT6 with some competitive, realistic behaviour AI, a custom event creator and a bare and bone livery editor.

PD efforts are not going in the *gameplay* direction, they are adding more details, more cars more tracks, when biggest GT5 problems were on gameplay.

Obviously new cars and tracks are pretty much expected, but I think you are right about them concentrating their efforts in the wrong areas. For a start, they spent time and effort developing and implementing a new rendering engine and adaptive tessellation. One of the things people were pretty happy with was the graphics (aside from the shadows). There are areas of the game that require attention which remain ignored.

 

[The_Rpg_Moogle]

While everyone is entitled to his or her complaining, whining, critiquing, I don't care, (heck I love to whine!) there's one thing that strikes me.

A lot of criticism directed toward GT5 is deserved (quantity over quality, sounds, too many Skylines, atrocious use of the NASCAR and WRC licenses, inconsistency, etc), it just strikes me that a lot of negative criticism it receives can directly be aimed at it's direct competitor.

Not to say which is better, I enjoy the best of both worlds (I own both Forza 4 and GT5, and enjoy them both a lot!), but I just feel this HAS to be said in GT5's defence.

The A.I. in GT5 is bad, very bad, but so it is in Forza 4, if not more so! I've been playing it quite a lot lately and this stood out to me, how ignorant and easy the A.I. is, it's really some of the worst I've literally ever seen. It would've even been better if they just followed one line, because right now, it's simply very very bad. I've tried all difficulties by the way, right now I race on professional, and it still is atrocious. Just as in GT5. Mind you, I'm not talking about the A.I. in Forza 5 here, just purely about 4.

Career mode? What career mode? While I can honestly say that GT5's career mode is bland, boring and not very rewarding (plus it being a huge grind), the one in Forza is just a collection of races with no direction, no goal to work towards at all, no surprises along the way, no nothing. There's no reward other than completing races for completionists sake. The World Tour mode is going nowhere, building up to nothing at all, just races thrown at you randomly. Then there's the Event screen, all those races ordered into some kind of cohesion. But what cohesion? They're all over the place, no structure to it other than that most cups on the same level are put together somewhere on this screen. Most I say, because sometimes E cups are hidden between R3 cups suddenly.

And when you finish a race, it says 'race completed'. That's it. No glory, no golden cup, no slight hint of celebration. No hidden cars to win (yes, for gaining levels up to level 50, with which you will be done in about a few hours). Nothing. It's just that. So while you call GT's career mode bland (it is) look the other way too.

And the damage? Some dents, some scratches, completely unrealistic and no option to turn it off. While mechanical damage is good, visual damage is just as bad as in GT, and also, if not more so. It's there, but just as stupidly integrated as in GT.

Some people seem to forget that it's competitor has serious flaws too, that it isn't perfect. No racing game is. But some criticisms can be directed the other way too, and the lack of that happening here is what strikes me. So, look with a little bit of perspective people.

 

[Eks]

Well, this is the GT6 Epic Whining and Crying thread...no surprise they're talking/complaining about only GT.

 

[napalmhardcore]

While everyone is entitled to his or her complaining, whining, critiquing, I don't care, (heck I love to whine!) there's one thing that strikes me.

A lot of criticism directed toward GT5 is deserved (quantity over quality, sounds, too many Skylines, atrocious use of the NASCAR and WRC licenses, inconsistency, etc), it just strikes me that a lot of negative criticism it receives can directly be aimed at it's direct competitor.

Not to say which is better, I enjoy the best of both worlds (I own both Forza 4 and GT5, and enjoy them both a lot!), but I just feel this HAS to be said in GT5's defence.

The A.I. in GT5 is bad, very bad, but so it is in Forza 4, if not more so! I've been playing it quite a lot lately and this stood out to me, how ignorant and easy the A.I. is, it's really some of the worst I've literally ever seen. It would've even been better if they just followed one line, because right now, it's simply very very bad. I've tried all difficulties by the way, right now I race on professional, and it still is atrocious. Just as in GT5. Mind you, I'm not talking about the A.I. in Forza 5 here, just purely about 4.

Career mode? What career mode? While I can honestly say that GT5's career mode is bland, boring and not very rewarding (plus it being a huge grind), the one in Forza is just a collection of races with no direction, no goal to work towards at all, no surprises along the way, no nothing. There's no reward other than completing races for completionists sake. The World Tour mode is going nowhere, building up to nothing at all, just races thrown at you randomly. Then there's the Event screen, all those races ordered into some kind of cohesion. But what cohesion? They're all over the place, no structure to it other than that most cups on the same level are put together somewhere on this screen. Most I say, because sometimes E cups are hidden between R3 cups suddenly.

And when you finish a race, it says 'race completed'. That's it. No glory, no golden cup, no slight hint of celebration. No hidden cars to win (yes, for gaining levels up to level 50, with which you will be done in about a few hours). Nothing. It's just that. So while you call GT's career mode bland (it is) look the other way too.

And the damage? Some dents, some scratches, completely unrealistic and no option to turn it off. While mechanical damage is good, visual damage is just as bad as in GT, and also, if not more so. It's there, but just as stupidly integrated as in GT.

Some people seem to forget that it's competitor has serious flaws too, that it isn't perfect. No racing game is. But some criticisms can be directed the other way too, and the lack of that happening here is what strikes me. So, look with a little bit of perspective people.

All well and good, but this thread isn't Forza vs GT. I don't own Forza so how can I possibly offer an opinion?

 

[The_Rpg_Moogle]

All well and good, but this thread isn't Forza vs GT. I don't own Forza so how can I possibly offer an opinion?

It's because people keep comparing GT to other games all the time, they keep using other games as arguments to justify criticism about GT (sometimes legit and deserved, but also sometimes not so much).

 

[The_Rpg_Moogle]

Well, this is the GT6 Epic Whining and Crying thread...no surprise they're talking/complaining about only GT.

Ow but I don't mind that, that's not what I wanted to say. It's good that people adress issues about GT!

 

[Saidur_Ali]

No.

But that's not what this thread is about. Mostly, it seems to be populated by people who are disappointed (hence the whinging and crying) that Gran Turismo isn't evolving along the path they'd like. Good AI, improved sound, livery editor etc.

Other's obviously like and approve of the direction Gran Turismo is taking. Nothing at all wrong with that, but why people from this group persist to post in a thread that was made for people who aren't so happy is beyond me.

We (pessimists) are trying to keep our "negativity" out of other threads. Kindly keep your optimism out of this one.

The game is not even out yet and new AI, improved sound and livery editor has all been talked about my Kaz as being possibilities making into GT6.

Just replying to a post that is all.

You mean which games don't have damage models that look like this?

I've yet to find one this generation, in this genre. I won't even count a game like GTA IV (and likely V) since those aren't licensed cars.

I consider a feature pretty standard when it's in the majority of the games in a particular genre. It's also a bit... well, disappointing, for lack of a better word, that Kaz has known how much a livery editor has been a request since well before GT5, but whenever he's asked about one, gives the vague "maybe" answer. If some fans are right, and PD really just has no desire to give players a true livery editor (despite that being an incredibly powerful feature to bolster the idea of a feeling of personal ownership), then Kaz could stop the jig around short shrubbery and just say no.

As for working on non-standard features? Sure, some of the work they do is innovative and can therefore set the bar for the rest of the competition. A Photomode is pretty much required of a racing game these days, as an example. If the rumoured GPS feature really will let us use our smartphones to get coordinates out there in the real world to translate to a track, then that's something I can see making big waves in the industry.

Are a bunch of make-believe cars going to further the game, other than allow PD to pat themselves on the back for having such close relations with the automakers? I don't see it, and I'm even a fan of concept cars. But considering some of them might not even end up with real-world versions, they're little more than an artist's sketch turned into a 3D car in GT6, and I feel that time could've been spent elsewhere. Like, making some Premiums to replace the outdated Standards.

Which brings me to my main point, and it's not the first time I've said it; I'd rather a consistent experience, an overall more level feeling of quality, compared to PD's increasing turns of peaks and valleys. For every awe-inspiring sunset as you blast around the 'Ring in an LFA, there's a smeary Range Rover lapping a ported GT4 track against some made-up Lexii.

What makes it wrong to go down GT5's approach to damage modelling where the part you hit is the part that is getting scratched / damaged a problem? Which gives a comical effect crashing and parts of car not involved in crash getting damaged or one where the part you hit is? Also the bigger problem is restrictions, the damage in games with real road cars is very limiting due to not being allowed chassis deformation yet. I think PD are doing the correct thing in this department, not wasting their time with legacy style damage models like some other games and not putting a great deal of effort into something that is unrealistic damage. If they can achieve something good on PS4 with race cars and real time deformation then it is worth putting the effort in as generally the damage modelling in racing sims is quite basic so might make it another new standard for racing games.

I like that PD are interacting more with manufacturers with concept cars. They are making use of their close relations with top car manufacturers and making use of their resources like design teams and getting potential cars of the future into the game now. I prefer this "edge effect" being utilised than just modelling cars that exist which really anyone can do.

Consistent experience should be achieved on PS4 as I doubt they will keep the standard car modelling anymore and tracks not up to scratch. However once these cars and tracks are gone, GT still has a much larger amount of content and in great quality than most of its competition.

I'll trade any day all the new cars, tracks we have seen in GT6 with some competitive, realistic behaviour AI, a custom event creator and a bare and bone livery editor.

PD efforts are not going in the *gameplay* direction, they are adding more details, more cars more tracks, when biggest GT5 problems were on gameplay.

Yet Kaz has talked about gameplay related things like new AI, sound, championship series creator, new course maker and physics engine.

 

[napalmhardcore]

It's because people keep comparing GT to other games all the time, they keep using other games as arguments to justify criticism about GT (sometimes legit and deserved, but also sometimes not so much).

I guess people want particular features that are in Forza (livery editor, better sounds etc), but they are talking generally about ways in which they would like to see Gran Turismo improve, not just running it down for the sake of it. It would not serve their purpose to note in what ways Gran Turismo is on par or superior to other titles.

 

[Eks]

Ow but I don't mind that, that's not what I wanted to say. It's good that people adress issues about GT!

That's not what I'm talking about.

To me, it seemed as if you were basically saying "why aren't you guys complaining about Forza 4 as well? it has flaws as well," when this a GT6 complaint thread.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

*snip*

Posting this here would have been a different story, but nobody in this thread was comparing GT to Forza until you brought it up.

 

[HKS racer]

The A.I. in GT5 is bad, very bad, but so it is in Forza 4, if not more so!

I crititic what I own, I have GT5, we are in GT6 forum. Who cares about Forza.
OT:If they don't make a manual H pattern gearbox and clutch pedals compatible I won't even consider Forza 5. End OT.

It's not like if GT5 & GT6 AI sucks it's all ok because Forza 4 AI sucks even more. Open a complaining thread in Forza forum. This is not what this thread is about.

Yet Kaz has talked about gameplay related things like new AI, sound, championship series creator, new course maker and physics engine.

Videos posted in homepage didn't show any AI improvement.

 

[Zer0]

Videos posted in homepage didn't show any AI improvement.

GTP: The artificial intelligence of the other drivers, will that see any changes or improvements in GT6?

KY: “Like the sounds, that is something that we’re rebuilding for GT6. It won’t be the same as GT5.

“In addition to the things we’ve already announced, like the new rendering engine, the new physics, suspension, and handling modeling, the AI and the sound simulation is something that we are working on.

“As with pretty much everything in the game, we are going back to the basics and rebuilding it. We don’t know when the results of all that effort will come out yet, but of course, it’s not going to be the same as GT5.

^

 

[McLOVIN5489]

I see plenty of forza comparisons in almost every thread in the gt6 subforum. Little of none of which contain forza in the title or OP(Including this one, but I'm not digging for it). No one had a problem until someone made a point for the affirmative with it.... Oh now its "all about GT" some of you need to practice what you preach and just rebute like a good sport ( I don't speak much, but I've been reading a heck of a lot through gt6s forum)
Don't cry foul when a good point is made.(i say that for BOTH sides) I saw a post earlier about keeping optimism out of here when the "things you are looking forward to" thread was flooded with some of these same usernames, and vice versa) " you can't shake hands with ya fist clenched" 👍

Ok, back to spectating I go

 

[ildd]

I'm sure everyone knows there is a "A.I. competitiveness" slider in the Arcade options. I honestly have no idea if it works because I don't do arcade, but couldn't they just copy that to GT mode?
Or would that break stuff...?
I'm really curious

 

[Cosbuster]

I'm sure everyone knows there is a "A.I. competitiveness" slider in the Arcade options. I honestly have no idea if it works because I don't do arcade, but couldn't they just copy that to GT mode?
Or would that break stuff...?
I'm really curious

It would break their view that GT mode HAS to be piss easy for dem casuals.

 

[avens]

There used to be a time when PD ran alone. Now there's competition, so it's natural that it is brought up when the alternatives are there for grabs.

Forza in particular is quite a good comparison because it's a console seller of the competition -like the GT series used to be until the PS4- and it happens to embrace the "GT Vision" since its beginning as well, embracing the whole car culture GT is about, featuring different cars and tons of content (F4 has more than three times more 'unique' 'premium' cars than GT5 does), tuning and modifications, etc., and actually the devs themselves are massive GT fans.

Personally I brought it up after watching Forza5's SL300 in action at the Nordschleife, including car selection, attention to detail and whatnot. In that note it destroyed GT5's implementation at what the GT series does best. That means the GT series can get better and that the quality standard increases every year (this will sound harsh but if GT3 were to be released in 2013 it would be at most a 6/10 title).

I truly think the GT5 people were expecting was called Forza3, that GT6 will be a massive step forward and that Forza5 will be the racing game of the year.

 

[HaylRayzor]

Virtually every game has a global difficulty setting. Putting one in GT would be a SMOP.

I think they don't do it because they think it would tarnish the "simulator" mystique of GT.

 

[avens]

About AI, games these days feature adaptive difficulty and manual options as well. Blaming kids or the general audience is not an excuse for having slow AI in 2013.
Now that we are comparing the series with other games, on this note GTR2's AI (2006) is miles better than GT5's, GT5-XL (2012) and what we have seen in GT6 demos (2013). It had miles better tutorials too.

A related issue is changing tires and tuning, because using racing softs against comfort hards really destroys the balance.

 

[CodeName]

^

Thanks a lot Zer0! Ohhh... We really needed to breathe here... So much complain... And yet, I think PD is working so hard on it for us to include it at launch! Because it was disastreous in GT5, they really need to rebuild it fully again, and that will take time i think. Anyway, thanks PD!

 

[HKS racer]

GTP: The artificial intelligence of the other drivers, will that see any changes or improvements in GT6?

KY: “Like the sounds, that is something that we’re rebuilding for GT6. It won’t be the same as GT5.

“In addition to the things we’ve already announced, like the new rendering engine, the new physics, suspension, and handling modeling, the AI and the sound simulation is something that we are working on.

“As with pretty much everything in the game, we are going back to the basics and rebuilding it. We don’t know when the results of all that effort will come out yet, but of course, it’s not going to be the same as GT5.

The truth is at this stage of development gameplay videos are proving Kaz wrong.
Actually his words sounds like a media marketing PR bluff.
We'll talk again when they'll finally improve AI.

The only facts we have now are gameplay videos.
A random dude needed only 54 seconds to become first from last place.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

What was the AI difficulty level on the gamescom videos ? Are they set to be aggressive like in Arcade GT5 AI slider at 10 ?

 

[napalmhardcore]

What was the AI difficulty level on the gamescom videos ? Are they set to be aggressive like in Arcade GT5 AI slider at 10 ?

I wouldn't have thought so. The majority of videos I've seen give me the impression it is sub 5 on the slider.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The truth is at this stage of development gameplay videos are proving Kaz wrong.
Actually his words sounds like a media marketing PR bluff.
We'll talk again when they'll finally improve AI.

The only facts we have now are gameplay videos.
A random dude needed only 54 seconds to become first from last place.

To be fair, the game hasn't been released yet and I'm of the opinion, purely guessing of course, that the AI you've seen in the GTA demo and everywhere else are just placeholders. Doesn't mean they have improved AI or anything, but I'll reserve judgment for the full game.

 

[CodeName]

The truth is at this stage of development gameplay videos are proving Kaz wrong.
Actually his words sounds like a media marketing PR bluff.
We'll talk again when they'll finally improve AI.

The only facts we have now are gameplay videos.
A random dude needed only 54 seconds to become first from last place.

It's placeholder as Kaz said, why do you think these videos represent the final game? PD has to work hard, and they still have time.

 

[The Stig Farmer]

It's placeholder as Kaz said, why do you think these videos represent the final game? PD has to work hard, and they still have time.

http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/400x/38149708.jpg

 

[NCRthree]

What was the AI difficulty level on the gamescom videos ? Are they set to be aggressive like in Arcade GT5 AI slider at 10 ?

It was set to inadequate! Same as in the GTA 2013 demo races. It's hard for me to believe that's the speed they'll be in the regular release. That would be a major step backwards.

GT6 could very well be like GT5 was with continuing tweaks. "Something we're looking into" doesn't sound that promising for release date to me.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

What would have happen if the AI were set to Professional like in Arcade GT5 and slider on 10, drop all tire on the car driven by player and AI to one grade lower, heavy mechanical damage and tire wear on ? Gamescom videos would be way a lot better then ? We won't see players hitting AI cars, they would have to drive clean to win, maybe no player could come 1st

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I see plenty of forza comparisons in almost every thread in the gt6 subforum. Little of none of which contain forza in the title or OP(Including this one, but I'm not digging for it). No one had a problem until someone made a point for the affirmative with it.... Oh now its "all about GT" some of you need to practice what you preach and just rebute like a good sport ( I don't speak much, but I've been reading a heck of a lot through gt6s forum)
Don't cry foul when a good point is made.(i say that for BOTH sides) I saw a post earlier about keeping optimism out of here when the "things you are looking forward to" thread was flooded with some of these same usernames, and vice versa) " you can't shake hands with ya fist clenched" 👍

Ok, back to spectating I go

And that good point is? I don't see how pulling Forza out of nowhere and saying it has some of the same "issues" as GT is going to benefit GT in the long run. I put issues in quotes because those things mentioned in Moogle's post are debatable. It just sounds like justifying GT's problems just because another series is guilty of the same from a subjective point of view.

 

[napalmhardcore]

The majority of people who post gameplay videos are awful drivers. If they set the difficulty high most of them would probably complain that it is too hard.

Edit: Gameplay videos from conventions and expos that is.