The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

[Rallywagon]

I don't care if I have 50, 50k or 50b. Honestly, how much money I personally have is none if the government's business afaik. If i have enough and it's in an interest gaining banking amount, I doubt mind the money gained in interest being taxed, but not the whole of the account. I don't mind my income, or a business' income being taxed. Gains made in the stock market, etc. I can't get behind a wealth tax though. Look, when it comes to economics, I am fairly liberal. I dont have Danoffs same faith in a free market being safe and fair. I believe there are things that need to be regulated. I think there are a lot of intentionally broken laws in our tax (and others) system that need to be fixed. But I am not ok with the Gov double dipping. Especially not to cover its misappropriations, incompetences and lack of accountability.

 

[GranTurNismo]

I don't care if I have 50, 50k or 50b. Honestly, how much money I personally have is none if the government's business afaik.

I simply cannot agree with this logic. If someone is a multi-millionaire or billionaire for example, the government definitely should be involved in making sure that money is obtained legally, as well as fairly/ethically. Sadly, you'll find that there are very few, if any, billionaires who are truly "self made" and made their money the right way; most of these people get so rich thru tax loopholes, exploiting the working class (as well as those in other countries, and an example would be not paying workers a living wage) and engaging in other white-collar crimes. Personally, there is no reason why one should possess billions and billions of dollars, and obviously, individuals who amass such wealth don't pay even close to enough in taxes. Billions of dollars is far more money than most would ever spend/donate in a lifetime. Take Jeff Bezos, for example, whose net worth is roughly $110,000,000,000. Even if 90% of his net worth was taxed, he'd still be worth about $12.5B, again more than he'd need. And of course, Jeff Bezos became so rich by monopolizing entire industries, wiping out both small and big businesses, and paying their workers wages that are far too low.

 

[Rallywagon]

I simply cannot agree with this logic. If someone is a multi-millionaire or billionaire for example, the government definitely should be involved in making sure that money is obtained legally, as well as fairly/ethically. Sadly, you'll find that there are very few, if any, billionaires who are truly "self made" and made their money the right way; most of these people get so rich thru tax loopholes, exploiting the working class (as well as those in other countries, and an example would be not paying workers a living wage) and engaging in other white-collar crimes. Personally, there is no reason why one should possess billions and billions of dollars, and obviously, individuals who amass such wealth don't pay even close to enough in taxes. Billions of dollars is far more money than most would ever spend/donate in a lifetime. Take Jeff Bezos, for example, whose net worth is roughly $110,000,000,000. Even if 90% of his net worth was taxed, he'd still be worth about $12.5B, again more than he'd need. And of course, Jeff Bezos became so rich by monopolizing entire industries, wiping out both small and big businesses, and paying their workers wages that are far too low.

So, instead of inacting appropriate rules and regulations to curb business abuses and really stick it to those "white collar criminals" we tax wealth and punish innocent and crims alike. Not to mention if there is some sort of criminal investigation a warrant for bank info can always he requested. I don't think "because there are criminals" is a reasoned response to why there should be a wealth tax.

 

[GranTurNismo]

So, instead of inacting appropriate rules and regulations to curb business abuses and really stick it to those "white collar criminals" we tax wealth and punish innocent and crims alike. Not to mention if there is some sort of criminal investigation a warrant for bank info can always he requested. I don't think "because there are criminals" is a reasoned response to why there should be a wealth tax.

Billionaires should be taxed a higher rate regardless of whether they obtained that wealth morally or not. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

 

[Joey D]

Billionaires should be taxed a higher rate regardless of whether they obtained that wealth morally or not. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

Why though? If you make your money why should the government be entitled to more of it? I genuinely don't understand.

Really a flat tax percentage across the board would solve all these problems along with a vastly simplified tax code. That way whether you're income is $30,000 or $30 billion, you end up paying the same percentage as everyone else. Also, getting rid of all the loopholes and making it simple would make sure everyone is contributing their fair share instead of unfair write-offs and loopholes.

Also, if the government cut its spending, they wouldn't need to take as much money from people.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Why though? If you make your money why should the government be entitled to more of it? I genuinely don't understand.

Really a flat tax percentage across the board would solve all these problems along with a vastly simplified tax code. That way whether you're income is $30,000 or $30 billion, you end up paying the same percentage as everyone else. Also, getting rid of all the loopholes and making it simple would make sure everyone is contributing their fair share instead of unfair write-offs and loopholes.

Also, if the government cut its spending, they wouldn't need to take as much money from people.

In essence, to help eliminate the enormous gap between the rich, the middle-class and the poor. The wealthier one is, the more in taxes they would need to pay for services which help the poor and disabled. That's just my opinion.

 

[Biggles]

I simply cannot agree with this logic. If someone is a multi-millionaire or billionaire for example, the government definitely should be involved in making sure that money is obtained legally, as well as fairly/ethically. Sadly, you'll find that there are very few, if any, billionaires who are truly "self made" and made their money the right way; most of these people get so rich thru tax loopholes, exploiting the working class (as well as those in other countries, and an example would be not paying workers a living wage) and engaging in other white-collar crimes. Personally, there is no reason why one should possess billions and billions of dollars, and obviously, individuals who amass such wealth don't pay even close to enough in taxes. Billions of dollars is far more money than most would ever spend/donate in a lifetime. Take Jeff Bezos, for example, whose net worth is roughly $110,000,000,000. Even if 90% of his net worth was taxed, he'd still be worth about $12.5B, again more than he'd need. And of course, Jeff Bezos became so rich by monopolizing entire industries, wiping out both small and big businesses, and paying their workers wages that are far too low.

I actually don't think Jeff Bezos made his money "the wrong way" - & nor did many other very successful businessmen. Bezos was smart, made a prescient estimate of future business prospects, was dedicated & focused on his goal & to some degree lucky. He deserves to be successful & I don't begrudge him his success. But I can guarantee you that making billions hasn't been Bezos' goal, anymore than it was Steve Jobs', or any other genuinely creative, groundbreaking entrepreneur. I don't see taxing people like Bezos as a "punishment" - on the contrary, their contribution in taxes is an acknowledgement of their success.

Aside from that, Bezos' success with Amazon has created enormous economic & societal dislocation. It's not wise to assume that that is of no significance & "things will just work out". The rise of Trumpism is a pretty good indication of that.

 

[nhraracer]

Billionaires should be taxed a higher rate regardless of whether they obtained that wealth morally or not. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

You know who pays 99% of the taxes in America?

 

[UKMikey]

You know who pays 99% of the taxes in America?

I'm not sure. However, the top 3% pay just around 50% according to Bloomberg.

 

[BobK]

Really a flat tax percentage across the board would solve all these problems along with a vastly simplified tax code. That way whether you're income is $30,000 or $30 billion, you end up paying the same percentage as everyone else. Also, getting rid of all the loopholes and making it simple would make sure everyone is contributing their fair share instead of unfair write-offs and loopholes.

Much as I agree with the sentiment, that'll never ever happen. Not while tax preparation is a billion dollar industry.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I wonder what the flat tax rate would have to be to produce the same amount of revenue the government currently takes in.

 

[Rallywagon]

I wonder what the flat tax rate would have to be to produce the same amount of revenue the government currently takes in.

Depends on what goes along with it. If it's just a flat rate with no changes in exemptions, probably not much. If other tax codes are changed as part of a process though, most specifically on wall street and enterprise levels, as well as better budgetary and fiscal regulations and accountability within the federal government, I could definitely imagine a scenario that pulls America out of its debt and improves social programs and infrastructure.

 

[PocketZeven]

So that justifies taking more from them? They pay more in taxes than Rally or I will probably make in our lifetimes combined.

In reality you probably pay more tax per dollar then the superrich do. Its sometimes obscene how some of the superrich avoid to pay any taxes at all. Most of the time because they can.

 

[Northstar]

Its sometimes obscene how some of the superrich avoid to pay any taxes at all. Most of the time because they can.

I'm curious, what's your opinion on tax havens? And how is U.S. tax law going to prevent someone from stashing their money in a country like yours?

 

[mustafur]

I'm curious, what's your opinion on tax havens? And how is U.S. tax law going to prevent someone from stashing their money in a country like yours?

Stashing money as in accumulated wealth is easy to avoid by moving it, but them making their money in a country wouldn't be hard to tax regardless.

 

[Northstar]

but them making their money in a country wouldn't be hard to tax regardless.

Facts say otherwise.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/static...on-from-the-rest-of-the-world-every-year.html

 

[mustafur]

Facts say otherwise.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/static...on-from-the-rest-of-the-world-every-year.html

Did you read the link.

Tax evasion and Tax avoidence are seperate.

Tax Avoidence happens because the country doesn't have laws in place to remove that ability, to change that isn't difficult.

Have all corporate bank accounts that do business in America in an IRS database regardless if they base their operations in some tax Haven or other country and the percentage of business done in said country compared to others is what gets taxed at American rates.

 

[Northstar]

Did you read the link.

Tax evasion and Tax avoidence are seperate.

You seem to be reading things I never said as I never said they were the same. What I did say was that tax havens are a problem and my link supports that.

Tax Avoidence happens because the country doesn't have laws in place to remove that ability, to change that isn't difficult.

And that should indeed be changed. Again, I never said anything on the contrary.

Have all corporate bank accounts that do business in America in an IRS database regardless if they base their operations in some tax Haven or other country and the percentage of business done in said country compared to others is what gets taxed at American rates.

That's easier said than done, especially when not every business has something physical to sell, which makes it much harder to say where the profit was made.

It should also be noted that the U.S. isn't the only country that loses out because of tax havens.

 

[mustafur]

You seem to be reading things I never said as I never said they were the same. What I did say was that tax havens are a problem and my link supports that.



And that should indeed be changed. Again, I never said anything on the contrary.



That's easier said than done, especially when not every business has something physical to sell, which makes it much harder to say where the profit was made.

It should also be noted that the U.S. isn't the only country that loses out because of tax havens.

The Idea being, once the laws are in your favour they can't use lawyers to wiggle their way out of it, any avoidance at that point is illegal and at their own discretion.

Also weak Fines for Companies doing Tax avoidance has to be stopped, otherwise that goes into the ''Cost of doing Business'' for them and they can easily justify it.

Yes I'm well aware of other countries doing it, but it is a much larger problem in the US then other countries(that Article you linked went into that aswell).

 

[Dotini]

Bernie is down, and possibly out, with medical issues.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Bernie Sanders’ campaign said Wednesday that the Democratic presidential candidate had a heart procedure for a blocked artery and was canceling events and appearances “until further notice.”

The 78-year-old Sanders was taken to a Las Vegas hospital after he experienced chest discomfort during a campaign event Tuesday and sought medical evaluation. Two stents were “successfully inserted,” and Sanders “is conversing and in good spirits,” according to the campaign.
https://apnews.com/eab21e66d7734867b8620fe9efaeb8a2

 

[Dennisch]

The man is 78. Time to quit.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

That'll be Warren that picks up the Bernie supporters if he drops out I presume. Pretty sure that will seal the deal for her to get the nomination. If M.Bloomberg doesn't drop in that is...

 

[GranTurNismo]

This is horrible news. Bernie was my favorite candidate by far... he's definitely the most passionate, most progressive, and capable of beating Trump. Bernie and Biden are both the same age but Bernie seemed much more "with it", more energetic and gaffed much less. I seriously hope he can fight through it and get better 👍

 

[mustafur]

I highly doubt he will quit.

 

[Rallywagon]

A blocked artery isn't that bad these days. Some drugs, a stint, he will be back on his feet in no time.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Hopefully. As the right likes to say, "thoughts and prayers" to Bernie.

 

[Biggles]

What about about Guliani? If anyone needs thoughts & prayers it's gotta be Rudy.

 

[mustafur]

A blocked artery isn't that bad these days. Some drugs, a stint, he will be back on his feet in no time.

He will be fine, although he has only 2 weeks to recover till the next debate.

As far as I'm concerned he still isn't showing signs of ageing anything like Biden who is basically senile at this point, he can't string 2 sentences together without sounding like a deranged Old man talking nonsense, Bernie still has his cognitive Abilities.

 

[Biggles]

He will be fine, although he has only 2 weeks to recover till the next debate.

As far as I'm concerned he still isn't showing signs of ageing anything like Biden who is basically senile at this point, he can't string 2 sentences together without sounding like a deranged Old man talking nonsense, Bernie still has his cognitive Abilities.

I haven't seen any indication that Biden is in any way "senile". He isn't, & hasn't ever been, the sharpest knife in the drawer ... but so what? I would look to Biden as President to be a genial, fatherly figure who gathers experienced advisors around himself & from whom he takes his lead. Sort of the diametric opposite of Trump who apparently believes himself to be the smartest guy on the planet & appoints & then ignores advisors.

I think Bernie's done. Like many other people, I admire the chutzpah, sincerity & passion of Bernie, but Warren is younger & more dynamic. I don't see him re-gaining enough momentum to take the leadership of the progressive wing away from Warren.

 

[mustafur]

I haven't seen any indication that Biden is in any way "senile". He isn't, & hasn't ever been, the sharpest knife in the drawer ... but so what? I would look to Biden as President to be a genial, fatherly figure who gathers experienced advisors around himself & from whom he takes his lead. Sort of the diametric opposite of Trump who apparently believes himself to be the smartest guy on the planet & appoints & then ignores advisors.

I think Bernie's done. Like many other people, I admire the chutzpah, sincerity & passion of Bernie, but Warren is younger & more dynamic. I don't see him re-gaining enough momentum to take the leadership of the progressive wing away from Warren.

This is just this year(most of which is less then 2 months)


Warren and Sanders have completely different Voter bases despite them being closer to policy then the others.
https://thefederalist.com/2019/08/0...t-sounded-last-week-supporters-far-different/

Warren's base is older Whiter and more wealthy & educated.

She is going to get ruined in the South for the Primary if her Supporters are strictly white,just like Bernie did in 2016.

I'm not a big fan of Warren's foreign Policy she goes into this race Supporting a Military expansion Bill that was more then what Trump even wanted, when pressed on it she can't give a straight answer: