UKMikey
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Chy-nah syndrome.
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The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread
- Thread starter Sanji Himura
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ROAD_DOGG33J
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Rudy has been suspended from practicing law in NY. 😅
Keef
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Maybe I'm getting dumber with age but I'm not understanding at what point "freedom of speech" and "being wrong" cross over into a place that needs to be halted. I don't see any flat-earthers organizing against NASA. I don't see UFO enthusiasts jumping the fences at Area 51. But this seems different. I mean anybody with eyes, ears, and a brain to process it should be able to figure out where speech like this will lead. It's not like it's never happened before. I'm not super sure that letting this whole "freedumb" thing work itself out is a great idea this time around. I'd suggest that this all needs to be nipped at the bud but it's already grown into a tree of life and muh history is telling me that it ain't gonna be pretty. I'm no scholar, I'm just some guy who never finished his bachelor's degree, but I think we're past the "don't worry about them, they're just being silly" phase.
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Speech is protected from government action in the United States. This is a good thing. Are there limits to that protection? Absolutely, but the bar is exceptionally high. This is also a good thing.
You actually do get to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. It's protected speech. The limit to this protection that is so often neglected is when doing so can be reasonably shown to have resulted in imminent lawless action.
Flat-Earthers, whether you've observed them doing so or not, get to "organize against NASA." That's necessarily protected.
UFO enthusiasts jumping the fence at Area 51 is likely not protected. Bare minimum, that's likely to be considered criminal trespass. There may be other implications as it's a government facility. But announcing on social media that you're going to jump the fence at Area 51 is protected speech--it's protected specifically against government action, that is, but the platform on which one makes such an announcement has the right to enact penalty within the scope of platform operations. That's also protected.
Protesting outside the Nation's Capitol is protected, but breaching the Capitol and beating law enforcement officers in the process is not.
That ****er saying people implicated in his election fraud conspiracy should be executed is protected speech. But then so is calling the ****er out on it. It's protected from government action. That ****er is employed by a television network, however, and a condition of his employment may be not saying people implicated in his election fraud conspiracy should be executed...unlikely as that may be because this sort of rhetoric is what people want of the television network. That television network has been offered a broadcast platform, and a condition of that platform being made available to it may be not employing ****ers who say people implicated in their election fraud conspiracy should be executed...unlikely as that may be because money. The important thing is that all of this speech (and it is all speech even if it doesn't involve utterance, but it can also be referred to as "expression") is protected against government action, all the way up to a necessarily high bar.
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UKMikey
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OAN Host Who Mused About Mass Executions: I Was Just Discussing The Federal Legal Code!
The One America News Network host who mused about the possibility of mass executions of Democrats told TPM Thursday that he was simply reporting on the potential legal ramifications that would exist…
talkingpointsmemo.com
🤔Talking Points Memo
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McLaren
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So, political version of “It was just a joke bro!”When pressed on his comments Sharp denied calling for the executions of tens of thousands of Democrats.OAN Host Who Mused About Mass Executions: I Was Just Discussing The Federal Legal Code!
The One America News Network host who mused about the possibility of mass executions of Democrats told TPM Thursday that he was simply reporting on the potential legal ramifications that would exist…talkingpointsmemo.com
🤔
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Danoff
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I have a close relative who is ranting to me about being ready to fight and die to "save this country" from democrats. She doesn't put it exactly that way, she says democrats are communist and ruining the country and trying to allow china to take over, and that she'll fight and die to save the country from... people who do that. I can put two and two together in this case. She believes that the election was stolen, that critical race theory is a chinese communist takeover, that the democratic party is trying actively to destroy the country, and that antifa orchestrated January 6th. She says she supports Trump.
I've taken the time to explain exactly where the problems are, and she just... meanders around and comes right back to where she started - zero progress. She'll say something, and I can show her citations that clearly explain why she's completely incorrect, and her response amounts to "yea but still" and she'll repeat the wrong thing she just said.
It's not politics. And I use no hyperbole when I say that it is a cult. I send her an ABC article showing her exactly what I'm talking about and she says "ABC is leftist propaganda". It's not even political, just a factual article that can be cross checked. Heaven forbid I send her the one from CNN or NPR. Her information sources are so constrained, and her web of conspiracy theories is impressive. Every question seems to be answered with another nested conspiracy.
I mean that's a cult is it not? Refuse unapproved information. Base belief on theories that lack evidence, and in some cases are unverifiable. Elevate the belief above your own well-being, and be ready for violence to defend it. She's a cultist. I guess I should be glad I haven't heard about lizard people in skin suits, but honestly it wouldn't make the situation much worse. She views over half of the people in this country as her mortal enemy.
If I go back, even decades back, I can see the seeds of this. Not just politically, but in personality flaws. She has always been prone to these kind of cultist movements. A lot of pseudoscience and pyramid schemes. I took the time to explain that stuff too, and was met with basically the same type of response. Refusal of information, insistence that I'm brainwashed or indoctrinated, and repeating the same pseudoscience or pyramid scheme junk.
Her cultist following of Trump is not making her happy either (and neither did any of the other stuff). It's making her miserable. Nothing but stress, alarm, anger, panic. It's ruining her life. It's very hard to watch her destroy her life, while knowing exactly what the problem is, and be seemingly powerless to stop it.
I've taken the time to explain exactly where the problems are, and she just... meanders around and comes right back to where she started - zero progress. She'll say something, and I can show her citations that clearly explain why she's completely incorrect, and her response amounts to "yea but still" and she'll repeat the wrong thing she just said.
It's not politics. And I use no hyperbole when I say that it is a cult. I send her an ABC article showing her exactly what I'm talking about and she says "ABC is leftist propaganda". It's not even political, just a factual article that can be cross checked. Heaven forbid I send her the one from CNN or NPR. Her information sources are so constrained, and her web of conspiracy theories is impressive. Every question seems to be answered with another nested conspiracy.
I mean that's a cult is it not? Refuse unapproved information. Base belief on theories that lack evidence, and in some cases are unverifiable. Elevate the belief above your own well-being, and be ready for violence to defend it. She's a cultist. I guess I should be glad I haven't heard about lizard people in skin suits, but honestly it wouldn't make the situation much worse. She views over half of the people in this country as her mortal enemy.
If I go back, even decades back, I can see the seeds of this. Not just politically, but in personality flaws. She has always been prone to these kind of cultist movements. A lot of pseudoscience and pyramid schemes. I took the time to explain that stuff too, and was met with basically the same type of response. Refusal of information, insistence that I'm brainwashed or indoctrinated, and repeating the same pseudoscience or pyramid scheme junk.
Her cultist following of Trump is not making her happy either (and neither did any of the other stuff). It's making her miserable. Nothing but stress, alarm, anger, panic. It's ruining her life. It's very hard to watch her destroy her life, while knowing exactly what the problem is, and be seemingly powerless to stop it.
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Joey D
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Living in Utah, I know a cult when I see one, mainly because our state is run by one, and yes Trumpians/QCumbers/Whatever are a cult.
Also, it's really, really amusing to me when people say Democrats are the radical left. They aren't even left, let alone radical left. They're pretty much what Republicans were a few decades ago but wearing a button that says "I support LGBT" and "BLM". Even then, I'm sure there are more than a few Democrats in Washington that can't stand anyone who isn't white or straight.
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Just testing out a theory of mine, does she enjoy the author Dan Brown?I have a close relative who is ranting to me about being ready to fight and die to "save this country" from democrats. She doesn't put it exactly that way, she says democrats are communist and ruining the country and trying to allow china to take over, and that she'll fight and die to save the country from... people who do that. I can put two and two together in this case. She believes that the election was stolen, that critical race theory is a chinese communist takeover, that the democratic party is trying actively to destroy the country, and that antifa orchestrated January 6th. She says she supports Trump.
I've taken the time to explain exactly where the problems are, and she just... meanders around and comes right back to where she started - zero progress. She'll say something, and I can show her citations that clearly explain why she's completely incorrect, and her response amounts to "yea but still" and she'll repeat the wrong thing she just said.
It's not politics. And I use no hyperbole when I say that it is a cult. I send her an ABC article showing her exactly what I'm talking about and she says "ABC is leftist propaganda". It's not even political, just a factual article that can be cross checked. Heaven forbid I send her the one from CNN or NPR. Her information sources are so constrained, and her web of conspiracy theories is impressive. Every question seems to be answered with another nested conspiracy.
I mean that's a cult is it not? Refuse unapproved information. Base belief on theories that lack evidence, and in some cases are unverifiable. Elevate the belief above your own well-being, and be ready for violence to defend it. She's a cultist. I guess I should be glad I haven't heard about lizard people in skin suits, but honestly it wouldn't make the situation much worse. She views over half of the people in this country as her mortal enemy.
If I go back, even decades back, I can see the seeds of this. Not just politically, but in personality flaws. She has always been prone to these kind of cultist movements. A lot of pseudoscience and pyramid schemes. I took the time to explain that stuff too, and was met with basically the same type of response. Refusal of information, insistence that I'm brainwashed or indoctrinated, and repeating the same pseudoscience or pyramid scheme junk.
Her cultist following of Trump is not making her happy either (and neither did any of the other stuff). It's making her miserable. Nothing but stress, alarm, anger, panic. It's ruining her life. It's very hard to watch her destroy her life, while knowing exactly what the problem is, and be seemingly powerless to stop it.
Danoff
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I'll try to remember to ask.
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It is not.
It is.
Back in 2020 a group of five of us, friends from High School days all turned 50. The original plan was to get together on each other's birthdays. Covid obviously changed that, but last October we all got together and went on a hike. I would say, politically, two of us are centrists but liberal leaning on most social issues. Two are centrists but conservative leaning. One is a HARD core Trumper. I haven't asked but it wouldn't surprise me if he was in Washington on the 6th. During the 6-7 hours we were together politics kept coming up. I think 4 of the 5 of us could have reasonably had an interesting and insightful political discussion. But it quickly degenerated and fell apart because it was impossible to have a reasonable discussion with the Trump guy. In order to have a reasonable discussion you have to have a baseline understanding that the sky is blue, the grass is green and up is up and down is down. And when you can't start with the common ground of basic facts, there's no point to go further. Within the first hour, the rest of us had given up and kept changing the subject. But just like a cultist, and not being able to read the rest of the room, he would keep coming back to it, making ever more outrageous and provocative claims.
These people are all the same. They can't talk about ANYTHING else. Everything revolves around Trump. The election was stolen. Trump is all good. Biden and the Democrats are all bad. Let's post all of this on social media. It doesn't matter how level and even you try to be. One of the group has voted Republican in every Presidential race except for 2020. And of course to the Trumper, he's nothing but a blind RINO. But when you have right wing media that refers to Joe Biden as a "radical leftist" what do you expect.
I used to think it was best to stay the middle ground and try and engage politely. I've since given up. At this point, when I read stats that 50% of Republicans still believe the election was stolen, I realize it's a genuine crisis. And I've become more vocal IRL. I've made my feelings clear and it's important that ALL of these people are told, repeatedly, on every occasion that those people who stormed the Capitol on January 6th are NOT Patriots. And they should not be called Patriots. They are traitors. Every one of them. And they should be treated as such.
I'm probably falling directly into the trap that so many social media agitators are hoping for. But at this point, I think we have to do everything possible to stop from nominalizing these people.
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