The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

[mustafur]

I think you will find that people want his policies, not just his personality.

 

[baldgye]

I think you will find that people want his policies, not just his personality.

But no one wanted The Wall? Or tighter restrictions on immigration?

I’m not saying he’s on par with Trump as far as cult of personality goes, because I don’t know how you’d even measure that. But from an outsiders point of view, out of all the Democrats nominations he’s clearly got the biggest following, despite not leading in many polls nation wide (it seems)... and I’m sure if he maintained a strong base of support, with Biden or any other democrat nominee as president you’ve got more chances of having Bernie type policies being setup than say... Trump as president...

 

[VFOURMAX1]

But no one wanted The Wall? Or tighter restrictions on immigration?

Matter of opinion there! There is a very large percentage of the population that does want immigration control and restrictions and realize to accomplish that goal that a wall on the southern border with Mexico will help make that job easier.

Immigration reform was one of the main points that Trump was elected on.

 

[mustafur]

But no one wanted The Wall? Or tighter restrictions on immigration?

I’m not saying he’s on par with Trump as far as cult of personality goes, because I don’t know how you’d even measure that. But from an outsiders point of view, out of all the Democrats nominations he’s clearly got the biggest following, despite not leading in many polls nation wide (it seems)... and I’m sure if he maintained a strong base of support, with Biden or any other democrat nominee as president you’ve got more chances of having Bernie type policies being setup than say... Trump as president...

You'll get a watered down version of what ever the public wants because he is funded by private health insurers and the like, US politics is very openly corrupt within both major parties, that is why alot of people where Bernie or bust.

 

[Joey D]

Matter of opinion there! There is a very large percentage of the population that does want immigration control and restrictions and realize to accomplish that goal that a wall on the southern border with Mexico will help make that job easier.

Immigration reform was one of the main points that Trump was elected on.

Anyone who thinks a wall is going to curtail illegal immigration needs to go to their nearest Home Depot and see how ladders work.

 

[baldgye]

You'll get a watered down version of what ever the public wants because he is funded by private health insurers and the like, US politics is very openly corrupt within both major parties, that is why alot of people where Bernie or bust.

So it’s all or nothing (presumably within a single term)?
That seems like a really short sighted way to make meaningful progress....

 

[mustafur]

So it’s all or nothing (presumably within a single term)?
That seems like a really short sighted way to make meaningful progress....

That tends to happen when your preferred candidate was in a rigged primary to begin with, if you want change like trying to get money out of politics, what ever gains Hillary might of had were minimal if not at all, over Obama. But I guess people where a bit naive over how terrible a Trump presidency actually would be.

Alot of people just didn't like Hillary though, she had a very dirty 2008 nomination process with Obama as well, she was the one to bring up the whole birther nonsense in the first place.

 

[Rallywagon]

I mean, if any of the democrats have a cult of personality/crazy following it’s Bernie. You don’t have the venture far on YouTube and alike to find them.

And both times (2016 and 2020) he’s stood for Presidential elections, his followers campaign with ‘Bernie or Bust’. Seems fairly extreme as a Brit...

You let me know when Sanders has met these criteria.
"A cult of personality, or cult of the leader,[1] arises when a country's regime – or, more rarely, an individual – uses the techniques of mass media, propaganda, the big lie, spectacle, the arts, patriotism, and government-organized demonstrations and rallies to create an idealized, heroic, and worshipful image of a leader, often through unquestioning flattery and praise."

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Anyone who thinks a wall is going to curtail illegal immigration needs to go to their nearest Home Depot and see how ladders work.

Anyone with an iota of intelligence would know that it is much more difficult to scale a 20 ft wall than walk over a piece of open land that has a sign that says "You are now entering the United States of America.

And no one said the wall is going to curtail anything but is just another tool to help border patrol and make ILLEGAL entrance into this country by the southwest border more difficult than it currently is.

 

[mustafur]

You let me know when Sanders has met these criteria.
"A cult of personality, or cult of the leader,[1] arises when a country's regime – or, more rarely, an individual – uses the techniques of mass media, propaganda, the big lie, spectacle, the arts, patriotism, and government-organized demonstrations and rallies to create an idealized, heroic, and worshipful image of a leader, often through unquestioning flattery and praise."

It's genuinely scary how many boxes Trump ticks, the constant Rallies since he has been president is the obvious one that sticks out.

 

[Biggles]

I’m not saying he’s on par with Trump as far as cult of personality goes, because I don’t know how you’d even measure that. .

Sanders doesn't have to talk about himself as a "stable genius". He doesn't bother to disguise his baldness with weirdly coiffed hair. He doesn't use elementary school level insults to demean his political opponents. He doesn't brag that he knows more about the military than the generals ... the list is endless. It's a waste of time & energy going through it all again. I don't know exactly how you'd measure it either ... but there's no question that Trump is right up there at the extreme end of the spectrum.

 

[Rallywagon]

Anyone with an iota of intelligence would know that it is much more difficult to scale a 20 ft wall than walk over a piece of open land that has a sign that says "You are now entering the United States of America.

And no one said the wall is going to curtail anything but is just another tool to help border patrol and make ILLEGAL entrance into this country by the southwest border more difficult than it currently is.

Haha, you mean like that one wall the wind blew down? What an absolute waste of tax money.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Haha, you mean like that one wall the wind blew down? What an absolute waste of tax money.

Blame that one on the construction company that was installing the wall and did not have it properly braced to withstand the wind while the cement was still wet!
Was funny though although I feel pretty confident the taxpayers did not have to pay to reset that section of wall.
A waste of taxpayer dollars is to keep allowing the illegals to cross into the country and have the border patrol agents sending sometimes the same illegals back a dozen times.

 

[Joey D]

Anyone with an iota of intelligence would know that it is much more difficult to scale a 20 ft wall than walk over a piece of open land that has a sign that says "You are now entering the United States of America.

And no one said the wall is going to curtail anything but is just another tool to help border patrol and make ILLEGAL entrance into this country by the southwest border more difficult than it currently is.

I'm sure you've seen the video of the person literally scaling the wall in seconds right? It's not going to slow anyone down for more than a few minutes at most. It's an incredible waste of tax dollars and it uses eminent domain, one of the worse things the government does.

 

[baldgye]

You let me know when Sanders has met these criteria.
"A cult of personality, or cult of the leader,[1] arises when a country's regime – or, more rarely, an individual – uses the techniques of mass media, propaganda, the big lie, spectacle, the arts, patriotism, and government-organized demonstrations and rallies to create an idealized, heroic, and worshipful image of a leader, often through unquestioning flattery and praise."

“If any”... it’s in the post you quoted.

His fan base have held ‘Bernie or bust’ rallies (or seemed to gather with that intent), ‘Bernie bro’s’ which seem dominate much of social media on the US version of the left push notions of other democratic nominees rigging the Iowa vote because they bought a service from the company running the voting app. While he himself hasn’t pushed himself like Trump, his followers have in a way that non of the other nominees followers even come close.

Sanders doesn't have to talk about himself as a "stable genius". He doesn't bother to disguise his baldness with weirdly coiffed hair. He doesn't use elementary school level insults to demean his political opponents. He doesn't brag that he knows more the military than the generals ... the list is endless. It's a waste of time & energy going through it all again. I don't know exactly how you'd measure it either ... but there's no question that Trump is right up there at the extreme end of the spectrum.

Yeah I agree lol but I think you can support and grow a cult of personality around you. Corbyn did much the same in the U.K. and from looking at online discourse Bernie Bro’s and Corbynists seem about on par.

 

[Jezza819]

Was funny though although I feel pretty confident the taxpayers did not have to pay to reset that section of wall.

But I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

But I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall.

Just like I thought the Democrats were going to spend the last 3 years helping to work on the nations healthcare cost and insurance premiums and affordable prescription drug plans, immigration reforms, qualified school teacher shortages and the out of control college tuition cost but instead they have only spent the last 3+ years trying to dig up something, anything against Trump.

Guess we were all fooled weren't we?

 

[Biggles]

His fan base have held ‘Bernie or bust’ rallies (or seemed to gather with that intent), ‘Bernie bro’s’ which seem dominate much of social media on the US version of the left push notions of other democratic nominees rigging the Iowa vote because they bought a service from the company running the voting app. While he himself hasn’t pushed himself like Trump, his followers have in a way that non of the other nominees followers even come close.



Yeah I agree lol but I think you can support and grow a cult of personality around you. Corbyn did much the same in the U.K. and from looking at online discourse Bernie Bro’s and Corbynists seem about on par.

As far as I have seen, Sanders doesn't encourage any aspect of a cult of personality around his candidacy - he focuses on the issues. To put the descent into Trumpism into perspective, this is what a rally for the GOP candidate for the Presidency looked like only two election cycles ago:

 

[Danoff]

As far as I have seen, Sanders doesn't encourage any aspect of a cult of personality around his candidacy - he focuses on the issues. To put the descent into Trumpism into perspective, this is what a rally for the GOP candidate for the Presidency looked like only two election cycles ago:

I think it is apparent in that video that the people at that rally were more ready for full-trump than McCain was.

 

[baldgye]

As far as I have seen, Sanders doesn't encourage any aspect of a cult of personality around his candidacy - he focuses on the issues.

Ok? You can build a cult of following around you without being explicit... his fan base literally call themselves ‘Bernie bros’, peddle conspiracy theories and would rather have a Republican President than a Democrat President that isn’t Bernie...

I think you can be critical of the extreme insanity of Trump and his followers while also being concerned that the other side is slipping the a similar direction...

 

[Biggles]

Ok? You can build a cult of following around you without being explicit... his fan base literally call themselves ‘Bernie bros’, peddle conspiracy theories and would rather have a Republican President than a Democrat President that isn’t Bernie...

I think you can be critical of the extreme insanity of Trump and his followers while also being concerned that the other side is slipping the a similar direction...

Give it up - there's no reasonable parallel to Trump's behaviour. Sanders can't be responsible for the behaviour of the fringe element of his supporters, it's the attitude that he puts out there himself that is relevant. For example, his remarks during a debate with HRC in 2016:



That doesn't sound like he's peddling conspiracy theories.

I think it is apparent in that video that the people at that rally were more ready for full-trump than McCain was.

True - but again, the difference is in how McCain responds to the situation.

 

[baldgye]

Give it up - there's no reasonable parallel to Trump's behaviour.

That isn’t what I’m saying.
Corbyn didn’t give Trump style insane speeches and was still able to build a fan base around him that was (and still is?) pretty extreme. Bernie seems to be doing something similar (or allowing it to happen), despite being fairly moderate.

I also didn’t say he endorsed or peddled conspiracy theories... his fan base of loyal (loyal to him personally, over the party’s success and all other candidates) Berni Bro’s however seem happy to.

I do try and keep up with US politics and online discourse and to me it’s worrying... but fine, I concede.

 

[McLaren]

Baldgye is right. Look at Bernie’s Reddit if you want to see how far they worship the man. I get the counter point that Bernie himself doesn’t acknowledge them and remains focused on the population as a whole, but that fanboyism is there on social media for Bernie. There were even some who started attacking Warren’s base online after that tiny “woman president” thing.

As Baldgye touches on & I mentioned earlier, many of Bernie’s diehards will not vote for another Dem nominee if they feel he gets shafted. However, haven’t seen very many claim they’ll go Republican, most say they’ll just not vote at all. It’s a weird base with a lot of Plan Bs if Bernie isn’t the nomination & it’s not comparable in size to Trump’s but yeah, Bernie does have a small cult of followers that hang on his every word.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Bernie could probably do more to encourage is supporters to be more civil. I think the issue is that when you run a platform based on directed anger that sentiment can be difficult to control...

The Yang gang is such a more pleasant bunch.

 

[Rallywagon]

My point is that someone actively works to achieve a cult of personality. Trump uses those tools to stoke his followers and thus achieves a cult of personality. Sanders does not. Thus he does not have a cult of personality. He does have a cult following, but that is not the same thing.

 

[huskeR32]

Just like I thought the Democrats were going to spend the last 3 years helping to work on the nations healthcare cost and insurance premiums and affordable prescription drug plans, immigration reforms, qualified school teacher shortages and the out of control college tuition cost

For the first two of those years, the Democrats didn't control either house of Congress, rendering pretty much anything they tried to do moot. Nobody is impressed when you knock down a strawman this weak.

but instead they have only spent the last 3+ years trying to dig up something, anything against Trump.

They don't have to dig anything up, he serves it right up for all the world to see.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for an answer to my question:

Why is the inverse any better?

How is it wrong for the more heavily-populated areas to "make rules for" the rest of the country, but okay for the lightly-populated areas to do so instead?

Seriously, besides neatly aligning with your personal bias, what is any better about it?

Surely eight days was enough time for you to come up with at least a half-plausible way to dodge it?

 

[Dotini]

How is it wrong for the more heavily-populated areas to "make rules for" the rest of the country, but okay for the lightly-populated areas to do so instead?

Perhaps neither way is intrinsically or absolutely right or wrong. But the way the way it is, is the way prescribed in the Constitution. By marshaling a convincing argument and obtaining the necessary majority votes, the Constitution can always be changed. That is the beauty of our system.

 

[mustafur]

Bernie could probably do more to encourage is supporters to be more civil. I think the issue is that when you run a platform based on directed anger that sentiment can be difficult to control...

The Yang gang is such a more pleasant bunch.

The Yang Gang was also a Tiny group of people that didn't last the primary process to be of any real size.

I would compare Sanders supporters similar to how Ron Pauls supporters were, alot where calling out the republican party at the time(with due reason) and where highly organised in their approach, but in both cases people wanted the policies that person provided which where a massive difference from other candidates in the race to the point alot felt it was nonviable for them to support another candidate.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Not everyone who supported Hitler was a Nazi. In fact most people who supported Hitler in his rise to power weren't Nazis. They were ordinary German people who believed in all the good things Hitler promised, said, and indeed did - which gave him the power to go on to do the terrible things. Very few people remember that Hitler's first victims were the normal German citizens. The fact that 85 years later someone can still look at a photo of ordinary Germans supporting Hitler and call them Nazis is testament to that.

The photo doesn't show Nazis supporting Hitler, it shows Germans (with some Nazis) supporting a leader who promised them a lot and loved their country and brought them prosperity (which, after two decades of misery, wasn't hard). The meaning of the photo is that charismatic leaders with lofty promises inspire love and loyalty in their supporters. Nobody is calling you, or any Trump supporter, a Nazi or comparing you to a Nazi.

You can polish this turd all you want, but don't try to sell it to me as a black pearl. He posted a Nazi rally and compared it to a Trump rally.

Obama supporter: People love Obama!

Obama hater jackass: People loved Idi Amin too,

Oh wait, I never saw this.

1930s Hitler, 1940s Hitler, what the **** is the difference. Quit comparing Trump to Hitler, and his supporters as Nazis.

 

[Scaff]

Matter of opinion there! There is a very large percentage of the population that does want immigration control and restrictions and realize to accomplish that goal that a wall on the southern border with Mexico will help make that job easier.

No it will not.

Immigration reform was one of the main points that Trump was elected on.

You spelt xenophobia wrong.

Anyone with an iota of intelligence would know that it is much more difficult to scale a 20 ft wall than walk over a piece of open land that has a sign that says "You are now entering the United States of America.

And no one said the wall is going to curtail anything but is just another tool to help border patrol and make ILLEGAL entrance into this country by the southwest border more difficult than it currently is.

Nope, the majority of illegals enter by plane, the wall not high enough to stop that.

Just like I thought the Democrats were going to spend the last 3 years helping to work on the nations healthcare cost and insurance premiums and affordable prescription drug plans, immigration reforms, qualified school teacher shortages and the out of control college tuition cost but instead they have only spent the last 3+ years trying to dig up something, anything against Trump.

Guess we were all fooled weren't we?

You mean 2 years and convinently forget that it's Mitch blocking all that.

1930s Hitler, 1940s Hitler, what the **** is the difference. Quit comparing Trump to Hitler, and his supporters as Nazis.

Still only able to focus on one element of the comparison I see.