The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[Divinus]

I'm in one of the more backward, Bible Belt, prejudiced places in the US and we allow both those.

Really? Could you talk more about that. It seems we will debate a lot in the next months over here and you seem to live in a peculiar situation.

Just to clarify: here this was "allowed" as in not ilegal. The referendum will recognize full parentship to the legally married couple: ability to sign documents, heritages, etc.

 

[FoolKiller]

Really? Could you talk more about that. It seems we will debate a lot in the next months over here and you seem to live in a peculiar situation.

Just to clarify: here this was "allowed" as in not ilegal. The referendum will recognize full parentship to the legally married couple: ability to sign documents, heritages, etc.

Honestly, your situation is flipped from ours. Homosexual marriage is not allowed, but adoptions are. My cousin had a commitment ceremony here 10 years ago. On their tenth anniversary they went to a state that has legalized homosexual marriage and made it legally official.

For years now, even without being legally recognized as being married by the state, they have been registered with the foster to adopt program, willing to accept even children taken from their parents, but requesting a preference for babies. After two foster kids whose birth parents corrected their lifestyles and proved themselves competent parents they got two kids to foster. One whose parents never met the court-ordered requirements to regain parental rights and eventually moved out of state, and another whose parents just disappeared right after the birth. Both cases were drug addicted newborn babies, but my cousin could have received any child in any age or situation had she requested. They just chose the most likely scenario to be able to adopt because there is quite a large wait to actually reach the full adoption point. The first child they received full adoption status with in October and the second they adopted last month. They had their first family Christmas with 100% parental rights and no fears of the birth parents demanding to get the kids for the holidays at the last minute.

But to sum up, you don't have to related to the child in anyway to get adoption rights here. You don't even have to be legally married to adopt as a gay couple. You just need a stable, two-parent environment that meets safety and social standards.

The fact is, our state may not recognize gay marriage, but they do recognize that children are better with two same-sex parents than abusive, drug-addicted, or worse parents, or no parents at all. Ultimately, there are kids who need homes and you can get a lot of kids out of the foster care system quickly and with as little trauma as possible if you allow homosexuals to adopt and achieve full parental rights.

 

[Divinus]

Honestly, your situation is flipped from ours. Homosexual marriage is not allowed, but adoptions are. My cousin had a commitment ceremony here 10 years ago. On their tenth anniversary they went to a state that has legalized homosexual marriage and made it legally official.

For years now, even without being legally recognized as being married by the state, they have been registered with the foster to adopt program, willing to accept even children taken from their parents, but requesting a preference for babies. After two foster kids whose birth parents corrected their lifestyles and proved themselves competent parents they got two kids to foster. One whose parents never met the court-ordered requirements to regain parental rights and eventually moved out of state, and another whose parents just disappeared right after the birth. Both cases were drug addicted newborn babies, but my cousin could have received any child in any age or situation had she requested. They just chose the most likely scenario to be able to adopt because there is quite a large wait to actually reach the full adoption point. The first child they received full adoption status with in October and the second they adopted last month. They had their first family Christmad with 100% parental rights and no fears of the birth parents demanding to get the kids for the holidays at the last minute.

But to sum up, you don't have to related to the child in anyway to get adoption rights here. You don't even have to be legally married to adopt as a gay couple. You just need a stable, two-parent environment that meets safety and social standards.

The fact is, our state may not recognize gay marriage, but they do recognize that children are better with two same-sex parents than abusive, drug-addicted, or worse parents, or no parents at all. Ultimately, there are kids who need homes and you can get a lot of kids out of the foster care system quickly and with as little trauma as possible if you allow homosexuals to adopt and achieve full parental rights.

Really interesting. Will investigate more about your state. Here there are a lot of religious people (and a few far right groups) that oppose the adoption vehemently and yet you live in a more religious state and adoptions are allowed. Thanks for the answer.

Here to counter the law people adopted a child alone (one person alone can adopt) and then live with their partner/spouse. The thing is that the partner/spouse is not recognized as a parent by the law, but is a de facto parent, participating in the children education and care.

It would be really great if I can find some video or testimony of a religious politician defending the adoption.

👍

 

[FoolKiller]

You won't find a video like that. The marriage issue came up with religious conservatives in charge. After a few scandals the power balance switched and the adoption stuff went through quietly as part of larger bills pertaining to benefit and welfare programs. It also didn't hurt that a few years before there was an abuse issue in the foster system and so a full overhaul went through, and it was impossible for anyone to try to argue that the abusive straight foster parents that populated the system were preferable to a homosexual couple or person.

I forgot to add the last bit to my cousin's story. The first child they adopted in October had a brother born recently, in much the same condition he was. This time the parents signed away parental rights immediately. As they like to keep siblings together, the social worker assigned to my cousin's case called just after Thanksgiving to see if they would take the sibling as we'll. They were able to adopt the newborn immediately. In six months they became the legal parents of a 3-year-old, a 2-year-old and a newborn.

 

[BobK]

...it was impossible for anyone to try to argue that the abusive straight foster parents that populated the system were preferable to a homosexual couple or person.

Actually I've known a person who argued exactly that. As long as there are people around who think like that, there's more work to be done.

 

[jimipitbull]

It's become a serious problem for this cat http://leadership.ng/news/339272/woman-disowns-cat-for-being-gay

 

[BobK]

That's a pretty sad article, and I'm not talking about what it's about. It seriously needs review by an editor with at least a passing familiarity with the English language. The cat, or perhaps I should say kitten, in the picture hardly looks seven years old.

Now, as for the content of the article, this caught my attention:

The cat owner ... expressed a strong belief in the divine purpose of creating male and female of every creature to fulfil an ordained purpose of procreation

The cat owner clearly is not aware of the fact that there are many species that do not come in male and female varieties, not to mention that in many others, the creature changes its gender as part of its life cycle.

 

[Touring Mars]

Spetsnaz #1: "Why so serious?"
Spetsnaz #2: "I just saw what our logo looks like in the mirror"

 

[DK]

There's quite a ridiculous situation going on with the Irish state broadcaster, RTE, right now.

A few weeks ago, a "drag queen", Rory O'Neill, was interviewed on a chat show. The presenter (who I think is crap) asked if a few newspaper columnists who oppose gay marriage were homophobic, and Rory said yes, and that homophobia was (I'm paraphrasing here) more subtle than skinheads beating up gays.

The columnists named then sent legal threats to RTE, and it's been revealed in the past few days that between the five of them, they got €85,000. The presenter made a grovelling apology about implying that these columnists were homophobic. Could you imagine the BBC grovelling in such a manner because one of their presenters suggested that Nick Griffin is a racist?

All of the furore around this take place on the Internet, none of the big "traditional media" outlets made any reference to RTE bending over so willingly. The columnists and their supporters, quite ironically, claimed that being labelled as homophobes was "censoring debate". What. The. 🤬?! Last night that same chat show had a cringeworthy "debate" about homophobia, featuring a battleaxe who campaigned against the legalisation of homosexuality back in 1993.

 

[Carlos]

Actually I've known a person who argued exactly that. As long as there are people around who think like that, there's more work to be done.

Why does he have to think the same?

 

[FoolKiller]

Why does he have to think the same?

Considering that I was talking about people that create policy, that would be a dangerous man who puts children in danger.

 

[Carlos]

Considering that I was talking about people that create policy, that would be a dangerous man who puts children in danger.

I'm not sure. People who don't give a crap about emotions and that sort of things have enough good ideas, but needs a partner to make it socially fit. But with power and no one to say no, that is dangerous!

 

[King Ranch]

It seems like everywhere the homosexuals are treated poorly. Whether its executing gay men by hanging in Iran or a kid is afraid to go to school because he will get beaten for being a homosexual, its disgusting how all of this madness is caused primarily by religion.

I understand gay people might not feel treated right, and although i myself don't support the idea of being gay i have no problem with people being gay as long as they don't bother me. But i do not think gay marriage is a right for them. Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It is a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law. Calling something marriage does not make it marriage. Marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman which is by its nature ordered toward the procreation and education of children and the unity and wellbeing of the spouses.

 

[Carbonox]

I understand gay people might not feel treated right, and although i myself don't support the idea of being gay i have no problem with people being gay as long as they don't bother me. But i do not think gay marriage is a right for them. Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It is a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law. Calling something marriage does not make it marriage. Marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman which is by its nature ordered toward the procreation and education of children and the unity and wellbeing of the spouses.

While it's always entertaining to see an anti-gay argument, unfortunately this one didn't quite light the thread on fire. The "as long as gays don't bother me, I'm OK with them" comment has already gotten fairly old, and the marriage argument has also been covered multiple times before. Bonus for claiming that merely being gay would be unacceptable.

Entertainment scale: 3/10

As for my counter argument, I'll just drop in the fact that several heterosexual couples marry without intention to reproduce too, but oddly people aren't bothered by that as much as gay marriage.

 

[Famine]

Marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman

Nope.

 

[Daniel]

Calling something marriage does not make it marriage.

So who gets to define it? Christians?

Last time I remembered, marriage wasn't theirs. Holy Matrimony was, but not marriage.

 

[Rage Racer]

Spetsnaz #1: "Why so serious?"
Spetsnaz #2: "I just saw what our logo looks like in the mirror"

Never thought about it.
These are OMON officers. OMON is a paramilitary police force used mostly for riot control, and it's them who usually bust the gay rallies.
Another one:

"That's weird, the gay pride was allowed but there's nobody here besides us."
"Hey, wait..."

 

[Touring Mars]

Controversial Scottish brewers, BrewDog, have launched a 'protest beer' mocking Vladimir Putin's stance on homosexual propaganda. It features a Warhol-esque label with colourful pictures of Putin, but they have also included the words * not for gays as well, so as not to fall foul of the 'homosexual propaganda' laws in Russia...

Link

 

[FoolKiller]

I understand gay people might not feel treated right, and although i myself don't support the idea of being gay i have no problem with people being gay as long as they don't bother me. But i do not think gay marriage is a right for them. Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It is a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law. Calling something marriage does not make it marriage. Marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman which is by its nature ordered toward the procreation and education of children and the unity and wellbeing of the spouses.

Glad we got the reproductive issues worked out with my wife. It only took surgery to make it possible. Otherwise I'd be in an unnatural marriage, thus not a real marriage...apparently.

Wait, isn't surgery unnatural? So what is my marriage then?

Oh God, I'm only alive due to surgery and a device implanted in my chest. I guess that makes me a zombie cyborg.

I have the wrong comic book character in my avatar.

 

[playnthru]

I'll leave this here.

 

[Danny]

There's quite a ridiculous situation going on with the Irish state broadcaster, RTE, right now.

Followup.

This hits a little close to home.

Slight language warning.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25960225

Gay marriage is now legal in Scotland! Well done, good to see another government doing the right thing.

 

[Dennisch]

So, 2 men in a skirt can finally get married.

 

[Imari]

So, 2 men in a skirt can finally get married.

A relationship where nobody wears the pants!

 

[BobK]

2 men in a skirt

Is that two men each wearing their own skirt, or two men sharing a single presumably extra-large skirt?

 

[Dennisch]

Is that two men each wearing their own skirt, or two men sharing a single presumably extra-large skirt?

I like the way you think.

 

[Sage Ages]

I fail to understand why this wasn't already legal.

 

[BobK]

There are no laws I'm aware of preventing two or more people from wearing a skirt, male or female.

 

[DK]

I'm watching this documentary on Channel 4 right now about homophobia in Russia, and...🤬 me, it's chilling.

 

[Liquid]

I'm watching this documentary on Channel 4 right now about homophobia in Russia, and...🤬 me, it's chilling.

Presumably, no man in Russia will want to 🤬 you.