The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[Rage Racer]

Violence in the name of Islam kills people too, but since it's for infidels only, who cares?

So you equalize Islam and violence? And you're telling us Russians to be tolerant to gays?

Even if this was found to be true, it's not the point. Homophobia shouldn't exist at all, let alone lead to people dying, no matter how few.

I'm not disputing this. But corruption shouldn't exist, too.
And homophobia exists everywhere. It's just more common in some places of the world.

Corruption is a lot worse than anti semitism, and when it kills people it's Jews only.

Disgusting.

You may want to rephrase that. Now it seems like you don't care if gays are killed.

Yes, you guys probably get me wrong. I didn't mean I don't care of gay people being killed, I mean that corruption has much more victims than homophobia. And it harms gays, too. Why do you think gay attackers get ignored by the police (if it's not a lie at all)?

...Are you for real?

That was according to the Russian definition of the word "parade".
We joke that Europeans set up gay parades because homosexuals have won there and now are celebrating their victory.

 

[Carbonox]

So you equalize Islam and violence? And you're telling us Russians to be tolerant to gays?

Thanks for not understanding the point. What you're doing here is diminishing violence directed at groups you're not a part of. Sure, it's easy to do that when you're up on your high horse, but when you become the target for whatever trivial reason people manage to put together, it won't be so fun anymore. 👍

 

[Rage Racer]

Thanks for not understanding the point. What you're doing here is diminishing violence directed at groups you're not a part of.

I diminish the "violence" if it is actually exaggerated in your mind. You probably imagine Russia as a big ghetto or a concentration camp where gays are being hit, tortured, killed and it's not against the law. If you really do, I can honestly tell you're wrong.
All I want is to tell the truth to everyone in this thread.

 

[TheCracker]

I diminish the "violence" if it is actually exaggerated in your mind. You probably imagine Russia as a big ghetto or a concentration camp where gays are being hit, tortured, killed and it's not against the law. If you really do, I can honestly tell you're wrong.
All I want is to tell the truth to everyone in this thread.

I don't think anyone here is under that impression. We are just questioning why homophobia is actively being state-sanctioned.

 

[Azuremen]

All I want is to tell the truth to everyone in this thread.

The truth being that Russia is pants on head backwards, while trying to reach into each other pockets, but since they are all on people's heads, it is just a giant mess?

That is all I'm gathering.

 

[Famine]

All I want is to tell the truth to everyone in this thread.

Your truth seems to be that you think homosexuals don't really deserve rights and shouldn't complain that they don't have them when there's worse things going on, like corruption.

 

[Brett]

Yup. Even when apparently worse things are going on, it does not excuse poor treatment of lesser deemed things.

 

[FoolKiller]

Parades are usually carried out by the victors. I can't remember a battle won by gays.

Weird, we have parades for sports events, holidays, to promote social/political causes, and great achievements. You can't tell me Russia's only parades are tanks and mobile rocket launchers rolling through Red Square? I know it isn't still that backward. I just saw The Daily Show from last night, where the guy was ice skating there. Then Gorbachev threatened to put him through a wall.

Any protest must be arranged with the authorities. But LGBT communities never get the permission (the problem is that what the media and the officials call "gay prides" are mostly just protest actions).

That would be a no.

See, here they want us to prearrange protests that will disrupt daily activities, like traffic, to avoid causing an accident, but if you want to wave signs on a grassy field across from The White House, march on the National Mall, and so forth, you may have at it, so long as it is peaceful.

I can also wear a shirt through the airport checkpoints, which I believe are violations of my rights, that has TSA protest messages on it. One guy even got away with stripping naked as protest.

If cops ignore a crime, the victim should report it to the attorney, but instead of that, they report it to Western journalists. Which makes it questionable if it really happened...

Do they get a fair day in court? Are their challenges taken serious? And which western journalists?

Ah, we don't let them spread their propaganda, that's so bad. I thought it doesn't exist...

Did you see the quotes? Pretend they are air quotes, being used to refer to something by the name it has been given while not actually believing it fits that definition.

Like "coffee" from a gas station vending machine.

Oh, America, the land of freedom. Okay, it's legal there. Glad for you.

But this started because you posted a comparison from the WaPo claiming American condemnation of the law was hypocrisy. I pointed out how that was a mischaracterization and you challenged that. It's legal here. That was the point, showing the clear difference between here and there.

All I want is to tell the truth to everyone in this thread.

But you sound like you defend it. I explain why certain unjust things happen here all the time, in the America thread, but I also explain why that is wrong or unjust.

By the way, since the Olympics started the only talk of the gay law I have heard has been in this thread. Hate to tell you, but we don't sit around talking about those failed commits and their homophobia. In fact, I've heard more negative stuff regarding the polluted water in the hotel rooms and the summer-like heat (as if Russia can control that) on the news than anything. Oh, and our bobsled guy that got locked in his hotel bathroom and head butted his way out, using his push training.

So, don't worry. Americans aren't going out of their way exaggerating Russian homosexual rights. We just want to know why the water looks like urine.

 

[Rage Racer]

We are just questioning why homophobia is actively being state-sanctioned.

The "gay propaganda law" does not sanction violence against gay people. Why do gay attackers sometimes avoid being punished (if they really do)? I already told why.
It kills the freedom of speech, you say? But who has it in this country?

Your truth seems to be that you think homosexuals don't really deserve rights and shouldn't complain that they don't have them when there's worse things going on, like corruption.

Okay, just a reminder that homophobia is not the main problem in RF. But of course a problem, too.

Weird, we have parades for sports events, holidays, to promote social/political causes, and great achievements. You can't tell me Russia's only parades are tanks and mobile rocket launchers rolling through Red Square? I know it isn't still that backward.

Actually, when we say "parade", we usually suppose the military meaning - when troops and army vehicles march through streets or squares celebrating a victory (e.g. the Victory Parade on May, 9).
That's why the "gay parade" term is associated with a "victory march". Maybe if they called it another way (say, "gay meeting" or "gay rally"), this could be a little more tolerated by the society.

I just saw The Daily Show from last night, where the guy was ice skating there. Then Gorbachev threatened to put him through a wall.

Gorbachev threatening anyone? Any source?
I remember a naked artist who nailed his balls to the sett, this November. The cops ejected him and handed over to medics. After the medical treatment, he was released and wasn't fined for anything.

Do they get a fair day in court? Are their challenges taken serious?

Sometimes yes. There is a guy in Kazan, named Dmitriy Isakov. He was busted by the police after his piquet, and beaten up by the cops, and then fined (BTW, he's just the third person in RF fined after the "gay propaganda law"). But he also managed to get the cops who were too rude with him charged with abuse of authority. Not only gay activists in this country find it hard to do... Now, they are fired from the police and probably locked up.

But this started because you posted a comparison from the WaPo claiming American condemnation of the law was hypocrisy.

I probably should have noted that my point was to remind that the States are not perfect in their LGBT policy.

Hate to tell you, but we don't sit around talking about those failed commits and their homophobia. In fact, I've heard more negative stuff regarding the polluted water in the hotel rooms and the summer-like heat (as if Russia can control that) on the news than anything. Oh, and our bobsled guy that got locked in his hotel bathroom and head butted his way out, using his push training.

I know. We're laughing on those tweets, too. And don't you guess the cause? The "C" word again. So much money were stolen that the rest wasn't enough to prepare for the Games propely. Now this is completely true.

We just want to know why the water looks like urine.

"Rusty water", a plumbing failure. Sometimes I have it flowing from my tap, too. Not often, but sometimes. Even Putin and Medvedev have.

 

[Danny]

 

[FoolKiller]

In news from home:

In a ruling that could open the door to gay marriage in Kentucky, a federal judge on Wednesday struck down Kentucky’s ban on recognizing valid same-sex marriages performed in other states, saying it violates the U.S. Constitution’s guarantee of equal protection under the law.

Gorbachev threatening anyone? Any source?

Yes.
http://m.comedycentral.com/tds_video.rbml?id=jason-jones-live-from-sochi-ish---commie-dearest

I don't know how much was a gag for the bit, but he played the stereotype.


Also, here is the first part, where Russian PR hurts their defense of their "toxic" water.

http://m.comedycentral.com/tds_video.rbml?id=olympics-has-fallen

 

[zzz_pt]

nobody's business but the people involved.

 

[Danoff]

nobody's business but the people involved.

If only...

So many issues I'd like to respond to with exactly that:
- Prostitution
- Gambling
- Guns
- Tax
- Loans
- Vehicle gas mileage

On and on and on and on.

 

[zzz_pt]

If only...

So many issues I'd like to respond to with exactly that:
- Prostitution
- Gambling
- Guns
- Tax
- Loans
- Vehicle gas mileage

On and on and on and on.

The problem is that the issue is homosexuality. Only.

 

[Danoff]

The problem is that the issue is homosexuality. Only.

The philosophy you referred to is a broad-reaching and overall excellent philosophy that applies to many subjects, all for the same reason.

 

[zzz_pt]

The philosophy you referred to is a broad-reaching and overall excellent philosophy that applies to many subjects, all for the same reason.

Except homosexuality is a natural thing and not an option, an action or whatever. Prostitution, gambling, guns, tax, loans, etc are. It's not a philosophy it is reasoning.

 

[Danoff]

Except homosexuality is a natural thing and not an option, an action or whatever. Prostitution, gambling, guns, tax, loans, etc are. It's not a philosophy it is reasoning.

There are other natural things that are not an option that are the business of people not involved. Let's say your dog bites someone. You might want to say "nobody's business by the dog and the person", or even "nobody's business but the dog, dog owner, and the person". This is of course a natural thing and the dog (affected by some sort of disease perhaps?) had no choice in the matter. Yet the police will (and should probably) get involved, because someone was injured as a result of either negligence or pure accident. People were affected. The dog may even need to be put down - deemed unsafe regardless of security measures taken by the owner.

The real reason that it's nobody's business but the people involved when it comes to homosexuality is because nobody's rights were infringed, and that's why it applies to other subjects as well.

 

[Rage Racer]

Yes.
http://m.comedycentral.com/tds_video.rbml?id=jason-jones-live-from-sochi-ish---commie-dearest

I don't know how much was a gag for the bit, but he played the stereotype.


Also, here is the first part, where Russian PR hurts their defense of their "toxic" water.

http://m.comedycentral.com/tds_video.rbml?id=olympics-has-fallen

👍 Loved the part with survelliance cameras in bathrooms.
Nah, Gorbie was obviously playing. He doesn't have the authority to put anyone against the wall anymore.

That "water looking like... beer... or what beer becomes" is water containing particles of rusty metals. It's not very toxic or poisonous, but still not recommended to drink, hehe. This isn't something bizzare or terrifying in this country. A week ago, I was taking a bath and this suddenly came out of my tap. I said "Ah 🤬, not now!", stopped the tap and left the tub. You'd probably run away scared, haha.
But damn, they could provide stable pure water for Olympic athletes at least. Or they wanted to demoralize the rival sports teams with rusty tap water.

 

[Danny]

Very brave speech. Good on her.

 

[Daniel]

Hear that? That's the sound of millions of crushed teenage boy's dreams.

 

[homeforsummer]

It surprises me that it's taken so long for her to come out, given the industry she's in. Film, TV, music etc strike me as probably the least judgemental of any industry when it comes to a person's sexuality.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hear that? That's the sound of millions of crushed teenage boy's dreams.

As cute as she is and Canadian to boot, I can't watch another speech. Do I take your response to mean she revealed her lesbianess?

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see @homeforsummer 's response.

 

[Liquid]

Hear that? That's the sound of millions of crushed teenage boy's dreams.

Joking, right?

People's fantasies just became sexier and involved more participants.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Joking, right?

People's fantasies just became sexier and involved more participants.

Yeah, can't wait for her first "coming out" role. Jessica Biel would make a nice "older woman" to show her the ropes. Jennifer Aniston? Naomi Watts! Maybe Helen Mirren as the old lesbian next door. Possibilities are endless...for the teenage boys of course..

 

[Joel]

Damn, she was always my realistic celebrity crush since she's from Halifax as well.

 

[Azuremen]

👍 Loved the part with survelliance cameras in bathrooms.
Nah, Gorbie was obviously playing. He doesn't have the authority to put anyone against the wall anymore.

That "water looking like... beer... or what beer becomes" is water containing particles of rusty metals. It's not very toxic or poisonous, but still not recommended to drink, hehe. This isn't something bizzare or terrifying in this country. A week ago, I was taking a bath and this suddenly came out of my tap. I said "Ah 🤬, not now!", stopped the tap and left the tub. You'd probably run away scared, haha.
But damn, they could provide stable pure water for Olympic athletes at least. Or they wanted to demoralize the rival sports teams with rusty tap water.

That attitude of "we're better than you because everything we normally deal with is worse than what you do" does you favors.

It really does.

Along with those assumptions of how easily scared we are Which I've seen a lot of as the basis for defending Russia's terrible infrastructure - Americans are weak wimps, Russians are manly men.

Except homosexuality is a natural thing and not an option, an action or whatever. Prostitution, gambling, guns, tax, loans, etc are. It's not a philosophy it is reasoning.

And people that want to gamble and have sex for pay (which is legal in porn already) are criminalized on the basis of some archaic notions of right and wrong.

But, you know, reasoning - forcing your values onto others when the "crimes" are victim less.

 

[Rage Racer]

That attitude of "we're better than you because everything we normally deal with is worse than what you do" does you favors.
...
Which I've seen a lot of as the basis for defending Russia's terrible infrastructure - Americans are weak wimps, Russians are manly men.

Nah, I never said that, this is you who makes such conclusions.
I just mean that we're so used to these terrible things that we don't get surprised by them. And even if we try to change something, the people responsible for this just don't give a 🤬.

Regarding the LGBT activists - after so many years of never doing that on public, they suddenly decided that they live in a first world country and this is time for them to stand their rights. Good luck seeking the freedom of speech here, hehe.

 

[FoolKiller]

Regarding the LGBT activists - after so many years of never doing that on public, they suddenly decided that they live in a first world country and this is time for them to stand their rights. Good luck seeking the freedom of speech here, hehe.

I am so glad this wasn't the mentality in America 40-60 years ago. You know we once had laws preventing blacks from eating in restaurants, using certain bathrooms and water fountains, and sitting in certain seats on buses, right? Laws. You know how that changed? Someone finally said, "ENOUGH!" They overcame their fear of being beaten and killed, and some died in the process. No clue why they went nearly 100 years after slavery ended to finally stand up for their rights it makes no sense. Good luck to them.

Want to know why these people are doing it now? Because society has changed enough that they can get attention. In the US it occurred when national TV was everywhere. Suddenly, everyone could see a human face attached to the cause. In Russia there is now international attention. Russia is, in general, more oppressive than the US was in the 1960s. So, it takes a bit more to get the attention you need. Now Russia gets international scrutiny. What you are up against right here, this is what they want. You try to defend, or explain it and we aren't buying it. You think Putin doesn't get some grief in international dealings? He does. Businesses may not enter Russia over this. The pressure is on, and since your own population won't step up they had to wait for a different audience.

Unfortunately, unless you have an army behind you, you cannot make change immediately or even be heard. You have to wait for the proper time to come out and make noise. If they don't start now, when should they? When you get proper free speech? How do you get that without speaking up? How do you make any change if your argument right here is remotely valid?


By the way, The Daily Show had another Sochi segment, this time addressing the homosexuality issue.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/w...-live-from-sochi-ish---behind-the-iron-closet

 

[Rage Racer]

@FoolKiller
I think, the attempts of gay parades are intended to make the society tolerant BUT they create an opposite effect here. Because they are disgusting - all those men in makeup and dressed like 🤬 just provoke more hatred. Russian mentality is full of stereotypes about gay people. When we say "gay", we imagine "men in female clothes, earrings, makeup, anal sex, AIDS! ". Media, pop singers dancing in pink panties and Boris Moiseyev (sometimes called the "Russian Elton John", but he's a lot differnent in his "gay image") create a negative image about homosexuals in the society.
IMO, if there wasn't such image imposed by that, homosexuality could be slowly tolerated by the society. People would realize that gays are not different from the others, they just have a man (woman) waiting for them at home instead of wife (husband).
People's mentality can't change so fast. And no law can help that.

I am so glad this wasn't the mentality in America 40-60 years ago.

YES we have a different mentality. And this is the main problem, not the legislation.
And remember, 40-60 years ago (and 20-40 years later) Soviet people were behind the Iron Curtain and did not know anything about homosexuality being normal. But Soviet Union had no racism...

What do you think is the real reason why Vladimir "The Crab" Putin signed that "ah, stone age homophobic law"? He obviously is not a homophobe. But Putin doesn't care about human rights, he cares about his ratings. This law made millions of Russian homophobes say "wow, Putin is doing something right, we'll be voting for him!". Gays won't vote for The Crab? That's not a problem, there's not so many of them. When Putin is asked about gay rights, he always keeps a cool face - politics, nothing personal.

Again, this law does not seriously harm the gays (are there many idiots ready to wave a banner with a risk or getting ass-kicked by some drunk bullies, not even cops?) - it's active for over a year, but there are only three prople fined ($130) under it in the whole country.

Russia is, in general, more oppressive than the US was in the 1960s. So, it takes a bit more to get the attention you need.

Hmm, that is debatable. At least we don't have laws banning gays from visiting restaurants (opposite - there are a lot of them in the restaurants, hehe) or using any other goods... They're just not allowed to donate blood/sperm and to serve in the military (I'd say, they even have an advantage here - they are allowed not to serve in the military. Conscription sucks.).
But if you want to stand up for your rights here, it'll be tough. When you ask the government for something, they just...

to come out and make noise

As I said before, that noise is not likely to cause any positive changes here. But the government may be likely to stop you from making that noise.

 

[homeforsummer]

But Soviet Union had no racism...

If that's correct it must only be on a technicality, such as an infinitesimally small number of minority groups in the country under the Iron Curtain.

And it isn't like it's lasted, since modern-day Russia is hardly free of racism.

Or this, which has come to light fairly recently. But it's okay, because when something is so ingrained into a country's culture people don't even understand what they did wrong. Still, at least Obama wasn't shot in the face.