The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[Dapper]

If God just want to make everything perfect, why doesn't He just put us all into the Heaven?

Why did He let the forbidden fruit exists in Heaven, but not letting Adam and Eve to eat it?

Why didn't He just gave us wings, instead of letting us build airplanes ourselves?

Simple: We're being tested.

And that's why both Heaven and Hell exists.

(Damn, it's 00.31 here, don't expect a quick reply. *going to bed*)

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=nZHThQLPLMY

The important part of this clip is about 3-4 minutes in, by the scientist/priest. He, the scientist/priest guy, explains all your questions, especially with his comment on the gap between when the bible, or scripture, was written and when science was developed. But I'd suggest everyone watch this movie.

 

[Rich S]

There's a you tube channel I really like, when it comes to science versus religion. Here;s some examples you might find funny if your non-religious. Disclaimer: if your Christian you may be disturbed and may not want to view

 

[koy682]

Uh.. what? Assuming someone is born homosexual, I'd say it's a fairly legitimate analogy. You are born the way you are. That's the way it goes. The "unfair" part is that people treat you poorly because of it.

I'm honestly dumbfounded by what you posted, and I don't even understand the latter 2/3s.

Dark skinned people are dark skinned because of their DNA as well, yet society doesn't treat them like crap (as often). Why should homosexuals be any different? How is it any "less fair" to be born homosexual than being born with red hair, or being born to short parents, or dark skinned, or with the DNA to be tall and lanky?

It is different issue because there can be a society made up of certain races, but is there one for homosexuals? Is color determined by chance? Is "homosexuality" inheritable? Answers are No, No, and No. Homosexuality happens by chance in DNA, in my opinion, and it is the only explanation why some people can be straight but some others can be homosexual even when they grew up in same living environment. So it is not fair to be born like that. You are arguing by saying that being gay is same as being different race, and I just disproved you If you want to argue back at me, you are always welcome, but it would make a lot more sense if you do it by disproving my arguement

 

[CAG_Theory]

This is not a serious problem for girls. Im even lovin' it.​

 

[freedomweasel]

It is different issue because there can be a society made up of certain races, but is there one for homosexuals? Is color determined by chance? Is "homosexuality" inheritable? Answers are No, No, and No. Homosexuality happens by chance in DNA, in my opinion, and it is the only explanation why some people can be straight but some others can be homosexual even when they grew up in same living environment. So it is not fair to be born like that. You are arguing by saying that being gay is same as being different race, and I just disproved you If you want to argue back at me, you are always welcome, but it would make a lot more sense if you do it by disproving my arguement

I never claimed there were "societies of homosexuals", I'm not sure what you "disproved". I simply stated that, like skin color, or hair color, or height, sexuality is likely due to DNA, inherited or not.

You claiming it is "unfair" implies that homosexuals are at an inherent disadvantage when they not. My point is that it is only a disadvantage because of the rest of society. I used the race example because yes, believe it or not, many places still treat different races as second class citizens. By no fault of their own, people are born a certain color from someone else and are mistreated for it. The unfairness is only that they are treated differently. Perhaps gender is a better example. Each person has a roughly 50/50 chance of being male or female. Is it "unfair" to be born one or the other? Or is it "unfair" to be told what you can and can't do because of it.

tldr: It's not "unfair" to be born gay, it's unfair to treat people poorly for being different than you.

 

[Rich S]

My instinct tells me it's definitely a disadvantage, even in America, to be gay at this time.

1) Its easy for gays to have feelings hurt over religious condemnation, rejection from friends & family & of course a general feeling of inferiority and purposelessness despite no logical reason to feel that way. Its very common to develop a crush on a strait friend, only to be rejected.

2) its more difficult for gays to find a partner than straits based on how many gays are "closeted".

3) Its more "risky" sexually to be gay

In the future this may all change of course. If you think I'm being condescending read my other posts on the matter on the previous page.

 

[koy682]

I never claimed there were "societies of homosexuals", I'm not sure what you "disproved". I simply stated that, like skin color, or hair color, or height, sexuality is likely due to DNA, inherited or not.

You claiming it is "unfair" implies that homosexuals are at an inherent disadvantage when they not. My point is that it is only a disadvantage because of the rest of society. I used the race example because yes, believe it or not, many places still treat different races as second class citizens. By no fault of their own, people are born a certain color from someone else and are mistreated for it. The unfairness is only that they are treated differently. Perhaps gender is a better example. Each person has a roughly 50/50 chance of being male or female. Is it "unfair" to be born one or the other? Or is it "unfair" to be told what you can and can't do because of it.

tldr: It's not "unfair" to be born gay, it's unfair to treat people poorly for being different than you.

I get your point, too. Here is my point again. Skin color is a physical trait that passes to descendants, so you cannot say that people with different skin colors are born in different way because their parents have same traits and those are passed down. however, being homosexual is not ,again, inheritable. They are born in different way, with different psychological traits, some thing that happens by chance, not like physical traits that is inherited. Not like physical traits,again, it occurs by low chance. So yes, it is unfair to be born differently, and yes it is unfair for people treating differently because he or she is born differently. I agree with your point that unfairness comes from people treating differently, but my point is that they are treated differently because they are born differently. It is not same as being born with different color skin, because it is not a different trair; his or her parents would have same physical traits.

 

[freedomweasel]

I get your point, too. Here is my point again. Skin color is a physical trait that passes to descendants, so you cannot say that people with different skin colors are born in different way because their parents have same traits and those are passed down. however, being homosexual is not ,again, inheritable. They are born in different way, with different psychological traits, some thing that happens by chance, not like physical traits that is inherited. Not like physical traits,again, it occurs by low chance. So yes, it is unfair to be born differently, and yes it is unfair for people treating differently because he or she is born differently. I agree with your point that unfairness comes from people treating differently, but my point is that they are treated differently because they are born differently. It is not same as being born with different color skin, because it is not a different trair; his or her parents would have same physical traits.

You really think that a kid who inherited his or her homosexuality would be treated decently than someone who did not inherit it?
Black people get treated like crap in some areas even though their skin color was inherited. I don't see the distinction. If I am born (randomly) with a gene that makes me very short I will be made fun of for being short, and be treated unfairly. If I inherited this gene from my short parents, I will be made fun of for being short, and those people will laugh at my parents too. I don't see how it matters how the gene got there. It's not as if homosexuality is an inherent disadvantage. If someone is born with a severe mental or physical handicap, I would probably say that is "unfair" because they do actually have a tangible and quantifiable disadvantage. That person won't be able to walk, do high level math, or whatever because of the way they were born. Someone who is gay is only at a disadvantage because society says so. That's the difference.

You seem to be imagining a closed environment of people who are all the same. Sure, if you're a dark-skinned person somewhere in Africa you won't be at a disadvantage because of your skin color because your skin color is the norm. However if you move to rural North Carolina, you will. It doesn't have anything to do with what your parents look like, it has to do with what the "average" person around you is like, and what they're used to.

I live in an area where homosexuality is generally accepted and isn't much of a concern. If I were to drive only 30 minutes in any direction it would be a very different story. Drive a bit further and it'd be the same story for skin color.

 

[koy682]

I really dont think people would discriminate for being short, or any other physical trait. Also, racism is disappearing, so i really think it is bit hard to use it as example.

Homosexuals are different mentally. They have different mental like mentally retarded handicaps, not that homosexuals are mentally retarded, but they have same disadvantage. I think that is legit enough reason it is unfair to be born with different mental.

 

[freedomweasel]

I really dont think people would discriminate for being short, or any other physical trait. Also, racism is disappearing, so i really think it is bit hard to use it as example.

Homosexuals are different mentally. They have different mental like mentally retarded handicaps, not that homosexuals are mentally retarded, but they have same disadvantage. I think that is legit enough reason it is unfair to be born with different mental.

I disagree with your first statement, but that's not the issue at hand.

Explain to me in real terms why homosexuality is an inherent disadvantage. ie What, specifically, can a homosexual not do, or not do as well as a heterosexual?

 

[Azuremen]

I really dont think people would discriminate for being short, or any other physical trait. Also, racism is disappearing, so i really think it is bit hard to use it as example.

First bit, yes. People get mocked for being short, skinny, fat, tall, having a large nose, etc. Tall males are more successful, where they, on average, make more money for each inch of height. Why it works out that way, who knows.

The point is people will differentiate for whatever reason they can.

Homosexuals are different mentally. They have different mental like mentally retarded handicaps, not that homosexuals are mentally retarded, but they have same disadvantage. I think that is legit enough reason it is unfair to be born with different mental.

This is so backwards in thinking, I'm not even sure where to start. I've met plenty of highly successful, intelligent, capable homosexuals. In fact, they tend to be on average more successful than many straight people I know.

Honestly, thinking homosexuality is a mental disorder is just... well, ignorant.

 

[Joel]

Homosexuals are different mentally. They have different mental like mentally retarded handicaps, not that homosexuals are mentally retarded, but they have same disadvantage. I think that is legit enough reason it is unfair to be born with different mental.

What? How is homosexuality a disadvantage mentally? That makes no sense whatsoever...


Homosexuals are people who like different parts than you. It's really that simple. Just because you think it's icky doesn't mean they're disadvantaged.

 

[koy682]

What? How is homosexuality a disadvantage mentally? That makes no sense whatsoever...

Homosexuals are people who like different parts than you. It's really that simple. Just because you think it's icky doesn't mean they're disadvantaged.

I chose wrong word right there haha. I meant to say that it is different from being mentally "normal", not that they are abnormal, but i am pretty sure you know what i mean.

I mean, come on. Wouldnt it be unfair if you are born unlike normal people when average society has more heterosexuals, even when it is low chance to be born like that, and it is not something that thet can choose.

 

[Azuremen]

I chose wrong word right there haha. I meant to say that it is different from being mentally "normal", not that they are abnormal, but i am pretty sure you know what i mean.

I mean, come on. Wouldnt it be unfair if you are born unlike normal people when average society has more heterosexuals, even when it is low chance to be born like that, and it is not something that thet can choose.

Some people are born smarter. Some dumber. Some stronger. Some heavier. Some simply see things in a completely way. And so on and so forth.

Life is full of differences, and the desire to conform is honestly stupid.

Also, life isn't fair. Get over it.

 

[freedomweasel]

I chose wrong word right there haha. I meant to say that it is different from being mentally "normal", not that they are abnormal, but i am pretty sure you know what i mean.

I mean, come on. Wouldnt it be unfair if you are born unlike normal people when average society has more heterosexuals, even when it is low chance to be born like that, and it is not something that thet can choose.

Nope. I was born with wicked curly hair and freckles. It has no impact on my day to day life unless someone makes a point of it.

I ask again, what is the inherent disadvantage in being homosexual?

 

[Danny]

I ask again, what is the inherent disadvantage in being homosexual?

Unrealistically high expectations about your interior design skills.

 

[Lee]

Unrealistically high expectations about your interior design skills.

Speaking of which...

 

[TheCracker]

Unrealistically high expectations about your interior design skills.

It also makes the Daily Babe Thread somewhat less interesting.

 

[PeterJB]

It also makes the Daily Babe Thread somewhat less interesting.

And Rugby somewhat more interesting.

 

[Pierced Lead]

Anybody considered the possibility that homosexuality is not innate or biological, rather a sociological or psychological disorder?

 

[Joel]

Anybody considered the possibility that homosexuality is not innate or biological, rather a sociological or psychological disorder?

Does it really matter?

 

[Pierced Lead]

Does it really matter?

Well, when it is considered biological people usually stir it up as 'it's natural' and therefore should be ignored and the best be made out of it.

But if it's artificial - something that the person picks up later in life (play stage/primary socialization?), then it becomes a different story.
I do think (without offending anybody concerned) that this is something that can and should be cured.

 

[drivehard]

Does it really matter?

Absolutely not. But dosen't the entire public argument seem to have come down to whether it's established at birth - assigning homosexualality some dignity - or whether it's a choice - making monsters out of people.

If science eventually determines it's not established at birth it would definitley embolden a quite a few ignoramasses.

 

[Joel]

Well, when it is considered biological people usually stir it up as 'it's natural' and therefore should be ignored and the best be made out of it.

But if it's artificial - something that the person picks up later in life (play stage/primary socialization?), then it becomes a different story.
I do think (without offending anybody concerned) that this is something that can and should be cured.

Or, we could leave people alone. Sure, maybe homosexuality is due to societal factors or a psychological "defect", if you want to call it that. However, this doesn't change the fact that there's nothing at all wrong with being homosexual.

Homosexuality is present in over 400 species. Homophobia is present in only one. Which one seems "unnatural" now?

 

[icelt]

Or, we could leave people alone. Sure, maybe homosexuality is due to societal factors or a psychological "defect", if you want to call it that. However, this doesn't change the fact that there's nothing at all wrong with being homosexual.

Homosexuality is present in over 400 species. Homophobia is present in only one. Which one seems "unnatural" now?

This. 👍

Actually given that we are ever so close to overpopulating our planet, maybe we should start seriously considering "curing" heterosexuality. Mostly tongue in cheek, but if one wants to suggest "solving" serious long term problems our species currently faces curing sexual preference surely ain't it.

 

[drivehard]

Or, we could leave people alone. Sure, maybe homosexuality is due to societal factors or a psychological "defect", if you want to call it that. However, this doesn't change the fact that there's nothing at all wrong with being homosexual.

Homosexuality is present in over 400 species. Homophobia is present in only one. Which one seems "unnatural" now?

Don't you mean Bi-sexuality? I highly doubt there is any other species besides humans that is strictly homosexual.

 

[Villain]

Don't you mean Bi-sexuality? I highly doubt there is any other species besides humans that is strictly homosexual.

He didn't use the word "strictly" and a "strictly" homosexual species couldn't exist. He used the word "present" which is a big difference.


Before anyone gets word-happy-pedantic: asexual and homosexual are not the same thing.

 

[drivehard]

He didn't use the word "strictly" and a "strictly" homosexual species couldn't exist. He used the word "present" which is a big difference.


Before anyone gets word-happy-pedantic: asexual and homosexual are not the same thing.

The use of the word strictly only shows the difference between bi-sexuality and homosexuality. Bi-sexual behavior can be seen in other species. Homosexuality can only be seen in humans.

So the question still remains: Is homosexuality established at birth or is it aquired during life?

 

[Pierced Lead]

Or, we could leave people alone. Sure, maybe homosexuality is due to societal factors or a psychological "defect", if you want to call it that. However, this doesn't change the fact that there's nothing at all wrong with being homosexual.

Well, not trying to insult others here, but when you try and cure a mentally-ill or psychologically-different person, isn't that also not letting them be what they want?
As for the bolded part, I just thought I'd inform that it's your opinion, with all due respect, but stating something subjective as a 'fact' can work both ways.

Homosexuality is present in over 400 species. Homophobia is present in only one. Which one seems "unnatural" now?

So how is that a justification for us to also accept it?

Bonobos are just one of the species known to commit homosexual acts, but they are also known for a rather more diverse and aggressive sexual behavior than most other animals - rape, incest, pedophilia, necrophilia and even inter-species sex have been observed in bonobos (as well as combinations of these). Considering they are our closest living relatives, I guess it's 'natural' for us to do the aforementioned things as well right?

Also, another interesting point to consider is this; straight from Wiki (I just checked and it appears to have been edited out, so I copied this from another forum where I discussed on this issue):

Research has shown that the environmental pollutant methylmercury can increase the prevalence of homosexual behavior in male American White Ibis.

So what may seem to be 'natural' may in fact be the result of human interference and destruction, or 'artificial' instead.
This was just one example I posted, there may be countless more but we probably didn't bother to check any causality with environment, food, etc. and sexual behavior in animals.

 

[Joel]

Why does any of that mean that we should be stopping two consenting adults from doing what they want? It doesn' matter id homosexuality is natural or not. It's two consenting people, doing what they want to do, and I don't see how it's possible to justify stopping that.


As for rape, pedophilia, etc etc. They're not even the same thing. That's sex against somebody's will, and sex with people who aren't able to give consent, usually against their will too.


And yes, my bolded statement is a fact. They're not hurting anyone, they're doing what they want, and nobody has any business in anybody else's bedroom. Prove to me that's just an "opinion", and that you have the right to interfere with people's private lives.