The " I want a livery editor" thread.

[HAL20XX]

You however really can't pass up an opportunity to trash a certain game franchise, and the people who like it, can you.

And I need to eat and unfortunately, face that horrendous Forza driving model, because I'm going to have to grind some races in order to afford all the cars and upgrades I want - and it's probably going to grind me right back.

Oh sweet irony!

 

[Tenacious D]

Hey, I have confessed that Forza 4 did what Shift and Grid wanted to as far as making racing seem like a handful. The interior view still isn't right, and no game really suits me, but the jiggle of the car and the roar inside is very adrenaline rushy. The bots are beyond annoying, but if I could come to grips with that driving model of theirs, I'd be spending most of my time in F4. Uhm... mostly painting up race cars, but then I'd be racing the snot out of them and taking piccies to share.

Anyway, gonna deplete my bank account some more and then hit the track. And one more thing: T10 is sure stingy with credits. You have to do just about anything and everything to make money, but fortunately I found a high dollar race that doesn't have me needing therapy afterward.

 

[SavageEvil]

Hey, I have confessed that Forza 4 did what Shift and Grid wanted to as far as making racing seem like a handful. The interior view still isn't right, and no game really suits me, but the jiggle of the car and the roar inside is very adrenaline rushy. The bots are beyond annoying, but if I could come to grips with that driving model of theirs, I'd be spending most of my time in F4. Uhm... mostly painting up race cars, but then I'd be racing the snot out of them and taking piccies to share.

Anyway, gonna deplete my bank account some more and then hit the track. And one more thing: T10 is sure stingy with credits. You have to do just about anything and everything to make money, but fortunately I found a high dollar race that doesn't have me needing therapy afterward.

Spend more time racing online, you get lots more credit online than you do playing the AI. Thing I hate the most about FM4 is that god awful suspension geometry, riding over a curb even in a street car can pretty much send you into a roll, what on earth is that about? Makes driving a bit annoying at times when racing as soon as you see a curb you get a bit nervous. I do love the handling as it feels close to GT5 especially when the cars get squirrely, have wrestle it back under control. Livery editor is awesome too, wish it was even deeper and allowed more freedom especially when painting wheels(like Midnight Club 3).

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

THIS!

I have been thinking about this lately, and was considering starting a pole on it. However, I am concerned with getting seriously flamed for it. My question would be this...

"What Feature Is Your GT6 Purchase Based On?"

Livery/Vinyl Editor (A full Livery Editor that allows you to create your own vehicles)

Tracks (Old and new, real and original/fantasy)

Customization (Bodykits, Racing Modifications, Rim Customization)

Sounds (Engine, Tire, Crash, Etc)

Tuning (Tire Pressure/Air Pressure, Tire Width, Rim Size, Engine/Drivetrain Swapping, Nitrous, etc.)

GT6 is Perfect as is, I'm already sold.

I'm a diehard GT fan and self admitted fanboy, and I will get GT6 regardless of it's included or dismissed features.

What do you guys think?

I would say add "New cars" or "More Cars" as another reason. Some games; I've been guilty to buy a game based on the cars included, hehe.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Anyway, gonna deplete my bank account some more and then hit the track. And one more thing: T10 is sure stingy with credits. You have to do just about anything and everything to make money, but fortunately I found a high dollar race that doesn't have me needing therapy afterward.

If you are after credits in FM4 the Rivals events are where the money is. There a few of them where it is pretty easy to win $150k over and over again in just a few minutes each.

The muscle car race on Maple Valley short is a good example. I think i won about 3 million out there in around an hour

 

[Samus]

Oh sweet irony!

Ha, exactly what I was going to say. I wasn't trashing a game, I was simply saying a lot of people don't seem to mind if PD fail to include major features or upgrade features. Better sound, better damage, better AI, livery editor, just a few things people are willing to let PD off with.

 

[Tenacious D]

I was simply saying a lot of people don't seem to mind if PD fail to include major features

A lot of people?? Are we on the same boards, The Official Gran Turismo Whining Forum? Are we in the same thread, or even in the same universe??

I don't see you having endless thumbwrestling with an entire board of sycophant fanhumans. Of all the forums I've been on, this one has a fairly even mix of people, and not overrun with fans of the series for which Polyphony can do no wrong, unlike a certain other game. If anything, this forum goes to great lengths to accommodate complainers, to the point they can state untruths routinely, such as all the cars in Gran Turismo games sounding like vacuum cleaners, for example. Even Toko, an even more enthusiastic booster of GT6 than me, is squirming over the desire to see certain things in the game and unsure PD will deliver them.

Yeah, irony. No, it's something else, but whatever, irony works.

But anyhow guys, I appreciate the advice, and Rivals Mode was one of the things I was alluding to in my post. But one, I still have to get that network cable, and two... they really don't want me on the same track as they are. It would be an unhappy scene. I really need to get dialled in a LOT more with F4 before I even think of racing online against other life forms.

 

[Samus]

A lot of people?? Are we on the same boards, The Official Gran Turismo Whining Forum? Are we in the same thread, or even in the same universe??

A lot, yes.

I don't see you having endless thumbwrestling with an entire board of sycophant fanhumans. Of all the forums I've been on, this one has a fairly even mix of people, and not overrun with fans of the series for which Polyphony can do no wrong, unlike a certain other game.

I see the not so subtle digs just keep coming.

If anything, this forum goes to great lengths to accommodate complainers, to the point they can state untruths routinely, such as all the cars in Gran Turismo games sounding like vacuum cleaners, for example. Even Toko, an even more enthusiastic booster of GT6 than me, is squirming over the desire to see certain things in the game and unsure PD will deliver them.

I see plenty of people where whenever a legitimate issue is raised, such as the ones I mentioned, certain people will turn around and say they don't care about damage, they don't care about standards, they don't care about sounds. I can guarantee Toko is one such person.

Yeah, irony. No, it's something else, but whatever, irony works.

No It was definitely irony. You can't resist a swipe at Forza no matter how tedious a link you can find to to the topic.

 

[T_Exige]

I hope you can take a race car and give it a normal color, like a private team car. Le Mans cars without the stickers etc.
The Mercedes Benz SLS AMG GT3 is a good start

 

[HAL20XX]

Yeah, irony. No, it's something else, but whatever, irony works.

Derp, you're right. I meant hypocrisy, of which you were guilty of several more times in your last post.

I actually have issues with both series. I just find that there are fewer fundamental issues in Forza.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

*deleted*

 

[HKS racer]

EPIC advertisement!

 

[SavageEvil]

I do hope for details on the inclusion of a livery editor of sorts, or a way to apply prefabricated liveries to cars, like how PD has for their RM cars each one has a unique paint scheme save for the Corvettes. I'd take those over having nothing at all, just allow me to paint individual sections to give it my own touch. I want that paint chip thing gone, it's incredibly annoying to leave it up to luck to get more of a color. I don't mind unlocking manufacturer specific colors and rim styles that are paintable as rewards, some stock rims are awesome and just a simple addition of paint could make them stellar.

 

[Tenacious D]

I actually have issues with both series. I just find that there are fewer fundamental issues in Forza.

Yes, but this begs the question: can we have our own "fundamental issues" without having to justify them like a college term paper with engineering references, or being piled on about it? I really have to question why people have to justify why they find favor with a game series on the very freaking forum in support of it, while criticism of it, the developer, and the people here can have almost no bounds. Something is really out of whack.

Anyhow, gonna go play with my paint brushes some more.

 

[HAL20XX]

Yes, but this begs the question: can we have our own "fundamental issues" without having to justify them like a college term paper with engineering references, or being piled on about it? I really have to question why people have to justify why they find favor with a game series on the very freaking forum in support of it, while criticism of it, the developer, and the people here can have almost no bounds. Something is really out of whack.

Anyhow, gonna go play with my paint brushes some more.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to having it respected or taken seriously unless you can defend it.

 

[TheeFrogmanlego]

Again with my comment, Forget Forza style livery editor and give us twisted metals..


road boat by frogmanlego, on Flickr


road boat final by frogmanlego, on Flickr
That simple really.. its a ps3 game too..

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yes, but this begs the question: can we have our own "fundamental issues" without having to justify them like a college term paper with engineering references, or being piled on about it? I really have to question why people have to justify why they find favor with a game series on the very freaking forum in support of it, while criticism of it, the developer, and the people here can have almost no bounds. Something is really out of whack.

Anyhow, gonna go play with my paint brushes some more.

What Hal responded with, basically, though expect your "fundamental issues" to be questioned about many things when you're being so hypocritical about topics. Which Hal also mentioned and you, unsurprisingly, glossed over. Just like the myriad warnings from the staff to not turn any and all threads you enter into your own personal VS thread.

I'm really hoping PD focus on this customization topic at E3. I don't want to say a lack of a livery editor will make the game a no-purchase for me, but it's really up there. I'm positive I've said it before, but it really does enhance the "simulated car ownership" experience that Kaz and Co apparently want us to have, and truly makes every car unique. It'd also revitalize that important "Play, Create, Share" mantra for Sony, since LBP and MNR so cleverly applied it to their own genres years ago. Sony has a USP of free online play with PSN, what better way to highlight that than with a potential massive market place / trading post for liveries in their biggest franchise?

 

[Tenacious D]

Just like the myriad warnings from the staff to not turn any and all threads you enter into your own personal VS thread.

I see nothing in the AUP about being able to discuss differences between other racing games, unless they turn into flaming of said games and other posters. And I challenge you to show me how I have said unfair flameworthy things about Forza or the Forza fans. Especially in this thread, and especially to the levels expressed negatively towards Gran Turismo, Polyphony Digital, and their fans here. Let me illustrate with a few comparable examples:

I will comment on your post purely because it is full of something I really can't stand any more and those are deliberate misconceptions that are not grounded in reality and facts but in some unbelievable universe created as "universal common opinion" - although it is completely false.

- Forza didn't improve its *sound massively within this console generation* it was exact the OPPOSITE. Forza 2 had the best sounds in all 3 this-gen Forza games, while FM4 has the worse of all 3 games. From Forza 2 to Forza 4 we lost progressive upgrades in sounds when installing tuning, collision sounds were dumbed-down and actual technical-aspect of the sound - mixing the channels for playback - is nothing less then horrid (even compared to FM2). FM4 has no channel-mixing in surround for instance, all sounds comes on central-speaker only, tyres are processed together with engine/exhaust, etc. The is no rear-front mix and to cut it short, Forza series is the showcase of *sound massively downgraded within this console generation*

But nevermind, it is not important to have factual claims I presume.

I was only referring to something that is always brought on the table, while it has no real anchor in the factual life. Forza didn't improve in sounds through FM2>FM3>FM4, it downgraded the sounds. It is factual. Not only how great option of changing and actual upgrading the sound as you tune the vehicle with proper parts (as it was in FM2) was made completely redundant in FM4 (change is incomparably less pronounced), but the overall "authenticity" of the sounds - which were more natural in FM2 - was heavily pushed to become "more attractive" and "more beffy" in FM4 (which resulted with Kia Cee'd - Reasonably Priced Car - to sound like a Golf GTI with 3.0 displacement and muffler-kit.

Of course, all above paired with no whatsoever advancement in actual quality of the sound which literally makes my surround cry every time for wasted opportunities. No matter which car you drive, sound always come from the center speaker. All tyres are squealing from the center speaker. It is just plain wrong. And it is not "generational advancement". It is misconception. And I can't believe noone takes that into account.

...Forza series has not actually originally improved since Forza Motorsport 2.

And as someone who have hundreds of hours of playing FM2+FM3+FM4 combined (with the wheel exclusively mind you - MS wheel for FM2, Fanatec GT2 for FM3 and Fanatec CSR ELite for FM4, exclusively with Simulation settings since FM4 update, even for Rivals, Online and Single Player career) and as someone who actually play every damn game that comes out and have anything to do with racing, all I can honestly conclude is how they are even not trying to improve or innovate. But I am really tired of such discussions. And please do not drag Horizon to the picture, it is another game from another studio and it is showcase only to further "casualisation" of Forza series that is another process that FM series has been put to since FM2.

Regarding XID/HID, I have the same opinion for years now, as you know. I am absolutely blaming Microsoft for XID/HID but T10 has lots of blame on their shoulders. The development of findings made regarding steering buffer for 900-wheels - that happened for both FM3 and FM4 - was a showcase they are blaming everyone else for their own decisions.

When we discovered steering buffer early after FM3 was released, all our posts where we were asking for the explanation and asking for them to acknowledge the problem - especially in the light of then announced 900-wheel support which simply didn't work as it should - were simply erased from the official forums. After few days everything regarding that issue was permanently trashed. I didn't come back there for next 2 years.

Same situation happened once FM4 was released. We discovered the steering buffer instantly, but this time their ignorance and deliberate will for deception went even further. First they said we're talking nonsense - even developers themselves, not only forum PR personnel - tried to minimize the obvious. Once they were faced with video-proofs they backed down and first begun to blame Fanatec. Then they went into smug-phase and stopped answering everything regarding that issue, which was even worse - because many of us invested into new Elite wheels and we were so damn pissed that promises that were clearly given prior to game release - about fully released 1:1 linearity physics in 900-mode - was not fulfilled. AGAIN.

Few weeks later the famous patch was introduced that finally solved the issue to some extent - because in order to activate proper 900-mode and 1:1 linearity we still have to have wheel on special profile, you have to turn-on console first and then the wheel and if anything is out of procedure - which was discovered by the community and never properly explained officially - 900-mode will just not work.

Also, they never tackled the greatest issue and that is disparity in performance between wheels and controllers, in both modes, Normal or Simulation. And that is something only GT does right in the complete genre. And yes, I blame T10 for that, because they absolutely know about it.

But in the same time, I am very positive about FM4 physics and many other aspects of the series. However, that does not change my opinion how many aspects of FM series that are universally praised are not that spectacular and how the overall impression of Forza is inflated. But thankfully, the more and more players are acknowledging shortcomings of FM and I hope how performance of both FM4 and Horizon will shake some heads there and move their focus to being more brave in actual development of innovations.

Gee, isn't that harsh... I wonder if he's just making things up, or is taking a thread over so he can rant about stuff he made up.

One very unfortunate thing happened on both this forum and the Playstation Universe forums. It became home to a number of fans of a certain game system. Some of them became mods, and they all became such a pain to the other members because they acted like they owned the place, and said whatever they pleased, and threw tantrums which resulted in a lot of hardship for the rest of us, to the point that many of us just quit posting on the PSU boards, or flat out left for the saner waters of the official Playstation forums.

I think it's quite ludicrous that anything and everything can be said negatively about Gran Turismo, Polyphony and their fans - on THE Gran Turismo site no less, but criticism of that other series or its maker result in harrassment?? Is this Animal Farm Planet now, where all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others?

I have been no more harsh in my criticism of Forza than Amar, and if I have, I would like to be shown that if you're going to accuse me of it. In the meantime, I'm going to go paint up some cars in that other game. And I'm going to eventually, I hope, post some pics, because I think it's quite relevant to the thread topic.

 

[analog]

While livery would be nice the game is about much more than a livery and if that is what makes a game for you perhaps you would have more fun playing with photo shop than a Driving Simulator.

It would be a joke game if it moved the focus to liveries rather than simulation

Has Photo-Mode shifted the focus from driving to taking photo's? Nope, and taking photo's of cars hasn't even got anything to with driving or being a simulator.
A livery editor has a real effect on the visual aspect of racing (at least online) and since it's done in real life, it'll effectively simulate another aspect of real life racing.

The game is indeed about much more than potentially being able to create liveries since that's the whole reason those who want a livery editor ask it to be included in this game, if it were simply a livery editor only they were interested in there are tons of other race games already offering it.

 

[Samus]

I see nothing in the AUP about being able to discuss differences between other racing games, unless they turn into flaming of said games and other posters. And I challenge you to show me how I have said unfair flameworthy things about Forza or the Forza fans. Especially in this thread, and especially to the levels expressed negatively towards Gran Turismo, Polyphony Digital, and their fans here. Let me illustrate with a few comparable examples:


I think it's quite ludicrous that anything and everything can be said negatively about Gran Turismo, Polyphony and their fans - on THE Gran Turismo site no less, but criticism of that other series or its maker result in harrassment?? Is this Animal Farm Planet now, where all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others?

It's the number one unwritten rule of any forum, stay on topic. Criticism of GT6 in the GT6 forum is in the right place. What you don't need to do is constantly compare it to another similar product. You seem to have an obsession with doing so.

If you want to bash Forza, go to the Forza forum on the board. There is no need to bring it up at any tedious link to GT6.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Ah, the livery editor is one of my favorite things about the Forza series. If GT6 has something similar, I'll be really happy.

I would love to make a Blue Castrol Supra in GT6.

or More WRC liveries

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Give me livery editor customization or give me death!

Damn, these designs look so good. E3, please reveal some good info!

 

[Tornado]

Gee, isn't that harsh... I wonder if he's just making things up, or is taking a thread over so he can rant about stuff he made up.

One very unfortunate thing happened on both this forum and the Playstation Universe forums. It became home to a number of fans of a certain game system. Some of them became mods, and they all became such a pain to the other members because they acted like they owned the place, and said whatever they pleased, and threw tantrums which resulted in a lot of hardship for the rest of us, to the point that many of us just quit posting on the PSU boards, or flat out left for the saner waters of the official Playstation forums.

I think it's quite ludicrous that anything and everything can be said negatively about Gran Turismo, Polyphony and their fans - on THE Gran Turismo site no less, but criticism of that other series or its maker result in harrassment?? Is this Animal Farm Planet now, where all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others?

I have been no more harsh in my criticism of Forza than Amar, and if I have, I would like to be shown that if you're going to accuse me of it.

The difference being that he didn't start that discussion and was responding to a specific statement of fact (in response to Spawnite, and earlier in response to Earth); whereas you bring it up out of the blue in an "at least *thing GT is being criticized over* is not as bad as *thing Forza 4 did*" context or some other pretext to force in a jab or two, then claim when people tell you to knock it off that it is a violation of your First Amendment rights.


You'd also note that amar was criticized for the content of one of those "types" of posts (specifically the one in response to Earth earlier in the thread, which your third quote was in response to one of the posts criticizing him) for that very reason you claim you are singled out for.

or More WRC liveries

I regret to say that I didn't remember ever seeing that one before I saw it in FM4. I like it slightly more than the Marlboro one.

 

[stucar17]

Ah, the livery editor is one of my favorite things about the Forza series. If GT6 has something similar, I'll be really happy.

I would love to make a Blue Castrol Supra in GT6.

or More WRC liveries

And this is exactly why I asked they question by starting the thread.

You can't tell me that people creating liveries like this doesn't bring something worthwhile to the game.

It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

And this is exactly why I asked they question by starting the thread.

You can't tell me that people creating liveries like this doesn't bring something worthwhile to the game.

It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.

I know right?! I mean, take the Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 TC in GT5 as an example. It's based off the GT500 R33 from 1997-1998. Imagine what possibilities can happen with a livery editor.

I regret to say that I didn't remember ever seeing that one before I saw it in FM4. I like it slightly more than the Marlboro one.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I guess it just takes some extreme searching on the storefront the find the more rare liveries.

 

[Tenacious D]

It's the number one unwritten rule of any forum, stay on topic. Criticism of GT6 in the GT6 forum is in the right place. What you don't need to do is constantly compare it to another similar product. You seem to have an obsession with doing so.

If you want to bash Forza

You know, I've been wondering what it was that I posted that was so awful about Forza that has your underwear all bunched. I guess it's that "horrendous driving model" remark. Okay, look, I'll be a little plainer and less bashy or whatever, you know, like some of you are so cavalierly around here towards a certain game which these forums are based around, and the members thereof.

I do have problems with the Forza driving model. A lot of people do, it's not exactly a state secret or anything. I shouldn't have to be reluctant to say that, as much as Gran Turismo is routinely trashed around here. I don't know why it's such a problem for me, for others, ask them. Believe me, there are awesome things about Forza 4 in particular that I would love to give a virtual tongue bath like I do GT5. But I can't. Oh well.

And as for "staying on topic," first of all, conversations happen. It's a net thing, it always happens. Everywhere. Surely you've encountered this not rare phenomenon. Secondly, the Forza Livery Editor does suit this thread pretty well because it's about the most mature in-game implementation I'm aware of. I have Forza 4, don't have Shift or the other games which feature one - though I do have a copy of Ferrari Challenge lurking somewhere... Anyhow, I would like to discus it, and the repercussions of it and Forza's modification potential without asking permission from the Shadow Royalty who wear Forza as their crown. If that is all right with his highness.

Anyhow, gonna paint some more and grab a network cable from a friend, so maybe by tomorrow or Sunday I'll have a few images of my own to share in regard to such topics as liveries in GT6, Race Mod, and how I would like to see racing leagues supported online.

 

[SubaruWRC555]

I wanna recreate the Subaru World Rally Team Impreza 555 96' McRae/Sainz/Liatti!!

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

I think I just thought of a few replica ideas;

http://kaosu1031.fc2web.com/jgtcgallery/history/jgtc1995/1995suzuka008.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...0sf-fezuDEQ7eD9GlD4_fl8c5Q4Pbo0V48WjouyCAeeeA

http://www.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/28.ReebokPan.jpg

http://skylynr.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/zexel4.jpg

 

[Tenacious D]

RCG, I love your links, other than the last one which seems to have pooped out at this late hour. I've been pouring over the nets for ideas myself much of the day, and hope by Sunday to have a few things whipped up to share.

I know a lot of people are down on the Livery Editor idea simply because nothing like it has ever been in Gran Turismo - to this point. We have a very, extreemely, barely implemented livery painter in GT5, but it's there. With a massive boost to GT6's online structure, even to being able to create our own clubs and leagues, and hosting championships, I think that two items in particular are just about essential to make this have any serious appeal.

• An Event Maker, allowing the creation of single races, series, championships, and even an online racing "season" if I'm right.
• A Livery Editor, with at least the power of the one in Shift. Perhaps even the one in Forza 5.
• And along with those two, Race Mod for the vast majority of cars in the game.

I know I'm one of the starry eyed dreamers of the boards, but some of my outrageous E3 predictions have already been fulfilled, so let's hope for the best for these as well. Now, I need to konk out for a while...

 

[RIKY-WRC]

RCG, I love your links, other than the last one which seems to have pooped out at this late hour. I've been pouring over the nets for ideas myself much of the day, and hope by Sunday to have a few things whipped up to share.

I know a lot of people are down on the Livery Editor idea simply because nothing like it has ever been in Gran Turismo - to this point. We have a very, extreemely, barely implemented livery painter in GT5, but it's there. With a massive boost to GT6's online structure, even to being able to create our own clubs and leagues, and hosting championships, I think that two items in particular are just about essential to make this have any serious appeal.

• An Event Maker, allowing the creation of single races, series, championships, and even an online racing "season" if I'm right.
• A Livery Editor, with at least the power of the one in Shift. Perhaps even the one in Forza 5.
• And along with those two, Race Mod for the vast majority of cars in the game.

I know I'm one of the starry eyed dreamers of the boards, but some of my outrageous E3 predictions have already been fulfilled, so let's hope for the best for these as well. Now, I need to konk out for a while...

If this happens... I will go to the Kaz's house, and I will marry him