The " I want a livery editor" thread.

[maxpontiac]

You giving 15 years and counting of benefit of the doubt there.
CorvetteConquer has a pic of a pretty serious conference where K Y announced never released features. Guess what, livery editor is one of them.

We all have seen that pic many, many times. Do you not see that a livery editor is part of plans? Last time I checked, there was at least 5 months or so to go before GT6 is out. The livery editor could be there.

So let me get this straight. You're saying people shouldn't make assumptions about the paint chips working the same way they do in GT5 just because they're going to be in GT6, but you're going to make your own assumption about a vague statement that doesn't necessarily mean significantly better customization?

What I am saying is that people shouldn't automatically assume the worse when it comes to GT6. I guess you could say that I am assuming but it's not like I am writing off a livery editor because the phrase paint chips surfaced again.

It is important that you catch my point because PDI is claiming that customization will be better. You will have to show me where PDI has said that the livery editor won't be in GT6. I must have missed that.

Personally, I'm not excited about that, I'm skeptical. Looking at GT5's track record, that could mean anything, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

You don't have to be excited and that is on you. Personally speaking, I am glad that PDI has mentioned on more then one occasion that customization will be better in GT6.

 

[FiftyBelowZero]

Tokyo Game Show 2006. Still waiting.

Number plate editor?

 

[p3bucky]

*This is not my video*

I've been watching a lot of Forza design showcases and such, and man, some of these cars are amazing. All of this guy's cars are!



I'm starting to wish I had an Xbox because of these videos. I'd never leave Playstation or GT though.

 

[airborn007]

There's a side effect to having a livery editor. You may end up spending so much time collecting paints rather than racing.

 

[tpark103]

*This is not my video*

I've been watching a lot of Forza design showcases and such, and man, some of these cars are amazing. All of this guy's cars are!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik7E2E0ux7w">YouTube Link</a>

I'm starting to wish I had an Xbox because of these videos. I'd never leave Playstation or GT though.

Watched most of those pretty good stuff.

 

[HKS racer]

There's a side effect to having a livery editor. You may end up spending so much time collecting paints rather than racing.

Some people already do that with paint chips. If you have a livery editor nobody will force you to paint all your cars. You don't have to create insanely complex livery every time either. Sometimes a bunch of stickers here and thare are cool enough.

 

[RACECAR]

There's a side effect to having a livery editor. You may end up spending so much time collecting paints rather than racing.

Dude in-case you haven't noticed, look at the "Marketplace". That already happens. Kinda too late for that.

 

[GranTurismoer]

Although I wouldn't be using the livery editor (should we get one) I will definitely have a look at what the community can come up with and would certainly part with some hard earned credits for the really cool ones. Hearing paint chips are a part of some pre-order bonus makes me feel like we will not get a livery editor.

 

[SavageEvil]

I have this feeling that the livery editor may not make it into the game at launch, since GT6 is made with a better upgradeable engine I can see it being added afterward. There has to be some sort of editor in place since PD themselves can create liveries and paint them however they choose, it has to be plenty versatile so I am betting on this being the issue at launch. No livery editor fully complete since they'd have to limit it to allow only manufacturer certified changes(if there are stipulations on that). I'm only going off what PD has revealed and since the paint chips are still in and they are releasing that weird paint schemes and custom paints as part of preorder bonuses...I'm really apt to believe that a working livery editor isn't ready for the full game yet, but time will tell if they have one ready to paint both premiums and upgraded exterior (standard) cars. I want to see what those look like, Kaz said they were upgraded to allow use of aero parts on all of them and use in Photo Travel, so this would mean texture upgrades to ensure that these cars don't look total tosh in photo travel. I was stoked at using aero upgrades...means finally functional front spoilers and rear spoilers on cars that couldn't get them in GT5. I want to play now...please PD!

 

[-Cheezman-]

I have this feeling that the livery editor may not make it into the game at launch, since GT6 is made with a better upgradeable engine I can see it being added afterward. There has to be some sort of editor in place since PD themselves can create liveries and paint them however they choose, it has to be plenty versatile so I am betting on this being the issue at launch.

They most likely just use Photoshop/Illustrator (or some graphics software) to design liveries (textures) in house, and then when applying them to the 3D model, adjust shaders accordingly; like having one surface glossy, and another matte on the same model.

Any livery editor that Gran Turismo includes will be purely for the player, not an in house tool.

 

[p3bucky]

Hearing paint chips are a part of some pre-order bonus makes me feel like we will not get a livery editor.

It says Customized paint chips. That could mean anything, but what I'm picking up is that they aren't just plain chips. Maybe it means we can pick the colors or what type of paint it is. Only time will tell though.

 

[RACECAR]

It says Customized paint chips. That could mean anything, but what I'm picking up is that they aren't just plain chips. Maybe it means we can pick the colors or what type of paint it is. Only time will tell though.

This. You know the race cars that you can't paint, but they have those little color squares with more then one color on it? I'm thinking it could be those with that ability to color them.

 

[maxpontiac]

It says Customized paint chips. That could mean anything, but what I'm picking up is that they aren't just plain chips. Maybe it means we can pick the colors or what type of paint it is. Only time will tell though.

Indeed.

cus·tom·ize [kuhs-tuh-mahyz]

verb (used with object), cus·tom·ized, cus·tom·iz·ing.

to modify or build according to individual or personal specifications or preference: to customize an automobile.

 

[Prototyp3]

So paint chips are confirmed to be back. smh....

As much as I love GT this is getting really stupid. It's archaic and a total embarrassment for the series at this point.

I'll still get GT6 but for the first time I will always be looking at another sim game as well. Really sick of not having full control over how my cars look or a livery editor.

Just don't understand their reluctance to come into the world of modern gaming. They need to kick Kazunori Yamauchi off the series and put someone new in charge. The series needs massive improvements in several categories and it's clear at this point that he can't deliver.

 

[Tenacious D]

They need to kick Kazunori Yamauchi off the series and put someone new in charge.

One, Kazunori is not causing the team to fail to produce anything. The poor damage simulation in GT5 had nothing to do with Kazunori being involved, and everything with a team trying to play five-plus years of catch up with other developers who are into generations of damage modeling. No one knows what kind of technical hurdles the team are dealing with in order to become current in every category with other developers.

Two, from everything I've heard, the team practically reveres the guy as a father figure, and if Kaz was forced out, I have no doubt that a good number of the team would walk out with him to set up a new Polyphony Digital elsewhere. If not the whole team. Which would leave us with a stillborn GT6, a primordial and useless GT7, and many millions of fans who would walk out of SONY's and Playstation's market. Now wouldn't that be cool, not.

 

[Imari]

No one knows what kind of technical hurdles the team are dealing with in order to become current in every category with other developers.

Er, the same technical hurdles that the other developers had to overcome in order to make what is now current tech?

PD doesn't get a free pass just because they're behind the curve. In fact, given that GT1 basically created the genre in which the whole GT series now sits, you could argue that they started off ahead of everyone else.

PD made the choice of where to spend their time and resources from GT1 through GT5. Arguably, they have had bigger budgets and teams than pretty much everyone not called Turn 10. Now they find themselves struggling to keep up, and the reasons are choices they made years ago. Maybe they made wrong choices, and only now we're seeing the consequences.

I agree with you that booting Kaz isn't the answer. He clearly provides a passion to his team that can't be ignored. It's not something that you can just buy, and it's very valuable in leading a team. What you can just buy, however, is someone else to help with the design direction of GT. While it will always be Kazunori's dream, it wouldn't hurt to have someone with a broader commercial knowledge of the genre helping to point out which features need to be developed to keep GT at the cutting edge.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Kaz is so focused on the physics that other aspects of the game fail terribly. It's almost as if he forgets he is creating a video game. When his passion for other features (that other racing games possess) meets his passion for recreating physics, it will be a hell of a game.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The poor damage simulation in GT5 had nothing to do with Kazunori being involved, and everything with a team trying to play five-plus years of catch up with other developers who are into generations of damage modeling.

If Kaz is to be thanked for all the positives that arise in the series (and thanked he is), the blame should also naturally fall at least partially on him for the negatives as well. The team being behind the competitors in terms of damage simulation most certainly can be attributed to the guy in charge; who didn't make it a priority until so late?

I've said before that I sometimes question if Kaz is best suited for his job, or if he'd be more beneficial for the team and the consumers by taking on a more advisory role, and leaving the hard business choices and deadline-meeting to someone else. Feature creep has resulted in a lot of barely-implemented features, but I'll certainly agree that Kaz has a solid passion, so keeping him in the fold would undoubtedly be better for PD than flat-out replacing him.

 

[VQuick]

Colour wheels and sliders don't work that well for people that are colour blind and a significant percentage of men are colour blind. A larger, solid block of colour, is much easier to work with for us.

Look back at the poster I quoted. They mention being able to collect and input the desired hue values for the color they want, which is possibly the optimal solution for those who are color blind. Like myself.

If you have trouble seeing some colors, making the object bigger will only help so much. It's the equivalent of speaking louder and slower to someone who doesn't understand your language.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If Kaz is to be thanked for all the positives that arise in the series (and thanked he is), the blame should also naturally fall at least partially on him for the negatives as well. The team being behind the competitors in terms of damage simulation most certainly can be attributed to the guy in charge; who didn't make it a priority until so late?

Seems like a new or perhaps reused piece of rhetoric that once again promotes double standards, to save face for GT and the creator. Also it can further be said that more blame should be place on him after what he has said lately regarding the damage simulator. Clearly he is fine with it and thinks car should be pristine like antique fine china.

I've said before that I sometimes question if Kaz is best suited for his job, or if he'd be more beneficial for the team and the consumers by taking on a more advisory role, and leaving the hard business choices and deadline-meeting to someone else. Feature creep has resulted in a lot of barely-implemented features, but I'll certainly agree that Kaz has a solid passion, so keeping him in the fold would undoubtedly be better for PD than flat-out replacing him.

I agree with this, and find it more in the realm of people not being aware of business practices. The head of a company doesn't always stay on top and at some point they hand it over due to no longer having the ability to progress it, thus giving it to a like mind visionary they use to be. To be honest I feel Kaz should go full time into racing perhaps help in car setups and data to an extent...so yeah.

As for the livery editor can some one remind me how soon we will know about it and other features. I mean the demo is probably one but...it's not a guarantee.

 

[VQuick]

Number plate editor?

Yes, we have that. This is not the same as a road car's license/registration plate. Cars in GT don't need that, because they're being raced on closed courses and not driven on the street.

The 'number plate' term refers to the racing number plate on the RM cars that can be changed for numbers and font style.

 

[MadmuppGT]

There's a side effect to having a livery editor. You may end up spending so much time collecting paints rather than racing.

I still have to do that now if I want a certain colour for my wheels to match my car... it can become taxing and a pain. But if I have to collect colours I would sooner do it for livery graphics.

 

[Spagetti69]

I still have to do that now if I want a certain colour for my wheels to match my car... it can become taxing and a pain. But if I have to collect colours I would sooner do it for livery graphics.

Some complex liveries are time consuming in themselves. Collecting the colours to achieve that just adds to the frustration. Completely daft IMHO.

Edit to add.

The Paint chip announcement seals the deal for me. No livery editor IMHO.

People holding out for one remind me of the delusions surrounding the "Won't support multiple interior views " comment thrown out by PD.

Hope I'm wrong but common sense prevailed then and I expect it to do so again.

 

[Feldynn]

If the hoarding aspect of paint chip collection is removed it would help immensely, perhaps give each manufacturer a catalogue or chart of "current" paint colours that can simply be selected / purchased whenever necessary with some additional older / discontinued paints that need to be "collected" (read unlocked) once first and then become available for unlimited use.

Then also have a Gran Turismo or PD manufacturer with a reasonable selection of generic colours that don't require unlocking, a grid of say 20 different colours (10 base colours with 10 light to dark gradients, or more), to allow for a decent amount of choice and variation in a livery editor without having to unlock a Nissan Yellow chip just to have a yellow paint option.

I'm not honestly expecting we'll really get anything like that just yet but that's because I'm really not expecting all that much in general (aim low, avoid disappointment), but I don't think it's too far fetched an idea for incorporating paint chips and a livery editor from PD's perspective.

 

[maxpontiac]

If the hoarding aspect of paint chip collection is removed it would help immensely, perhaps give each manufacturer a catalogue or chart of "current" paint colours that can simply be selected / purchased whenever necessary with some additional older / discontinued paints that need to be "collected" (read unlocked) once first and then become available for unlimited use.

Then also have a Gran Turismo or PD manufacturer with a reasonable selection of generic colours that don't require unlocking, a grid of say 20 different colours (10 base colours with 10 light to dark gradients, or more), to allow for a decent amount of choice and variation in a livery editor without having to unlock a Nissan Yellow chip just to have a yellow paint option.

I'm not honestly expecting we'll really get anything like that just yet but that's because I'm really not expecting all that much in general (aim low, avoid disappointment), but I don't think it's too far fetched an idea for incorporating paint chips and a livery editor from PD's perspective.

Great post. We don't know what PDI has planned with GT6 and the paint chips. Now while I don't expect everyone to be happy when it's all said and done, I really feel that a wait and see approach is the best solution.

 

[Tenacious D]

Er, the same technical hurdles that the other developers had to overcome in order to make what is now current tech?

PD made the choice of where to spend their time and resources from GT1 through GT5. Arguably, they have had bigger budgets and teams than pretty much everyone not called Turn 10. Now they find themselves struggling to keep up, and the reasons are choices they made years ago. Maybe they made wrong choices, and only now we're seeing the consequences.

Way to restate my point, while calling mine out.

This is precisely what I mean. You can't just replicate ten years of work in one year of work, or never mind Mars, we'd be at Proxima Centauri by now. Many of us would love to see a damage model like the one in Forza 4, or better yet, Dirt and Grid, but Codemasters has about fifteen years of work put into their spectacular damage builds.

I agree with you that booting Kaz isn't the answer. He clearly provides a passion to his team that can't be ignored. It's not something that you can just buy, and it's very valuable in leading a team. What you can just buy, however, is someone else to help with the design direction of GT. While it will always be Kazunori's dream, it wouldn't hurt to have someone with a broader commercial knowledge of the genre helping to point out which features need to be developed to keep GT at the cutting edge.

Well, except that you have millions of dollars worth of market research sitting here at GT Planet for free. Nasty posts aside, there are pages of very thoughtful critique and discussion of features desired, and features in other games desired. As others have pointed out, it would be a challenge for any racing game developer to give their fans even every sensible feature they requested, never mind the full monty. Kaz is no dummy. PD tried to give us a damage build in GT5 but we didn't like what was revealed, so he had them scrap almost all that work. They're still working on it, but he admitted it likely would have to wait for the PS4 game. He knows we want better sounds. He knows that a livery editor is a very popular feature, race mod, etc. He's going to give us what he can which will run at roughly 60fps.

I really feel that a wait and see approach is the best solution.

Perfectly timed post, max. A lot has yet to be revealed. A LOT. He's pacing the reveals because a certain competitor is pacing reveals. Once again, we don't even know if there will be used cars. We learned a lot about GT5 at GamesCom in August, and this is looking to be the same deal. But what we know about GT6 is already looking close to next gen, so I'm optimistic.

 

[maxpontiac]

A lot has yet to be revealed. A LOT. He's pacing the reveals because a certain competitor is pacing reveals. Once again, we don't even know if there will be used cars. We learned a lot about GT5 at GamesCom in August, and this is looking to be the same deal. But what we know about GT6 is already looking close to next gen, so I'm optimistic.

Indeed TD. PDI has yet to reveal anything past the "core" experience of GT6. I encourage all to look at the positive changes that Gran Turismo 6 has received over GT5.

New Game Engine
New Physics Engine
New suspension and kinematics model
New tire model
New aerodynamics model
New Course Maker
New User Interface

These seven things listed above have been discussed to death and there is still over 150 days +/- to go before launch!

 

[HKS racer]

Indeed TD. PDI has yet to reveal anything past the "core" experience of GT6. I encourage all to look at the positive changes that Gran Turismo 6 has received over GT5.

New Game Engine
New Physics Engine
New suspension and kinematics model
New tire model
New aerodynamics model
New Course Maker
New User Interface

These seven things listed above have been discussed to death and there is still over 150 days +/- to go before launch!

http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/250x250/38250300.jpg

 

[Crit]

Livery editor that allows sharing of cars / livery files is my number 1 request.

Number 2 is the return of Qualifying.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

The funny thing about the hackers situation was that we saw how easy it was to swap engines and recently, I've seen hacked paint.


Kazunori did mention in a recent interview that both are technically possible. Maybe one or both will be fulfilled.