The " I want a livery editor" thread.

[HKS racer]

Some people will buy anything. Doesn't make it a good idea.

Who are you to decide what is or isn't a good idea for other people?

 

[C_Raccoon23]

What if they sold a seperate game just for livery editing. A seperate game that you could send your cars to edit the body, paint and livery, then send them back to gt6. DLC mini game maybe?

Lets say 19.99 usd? Would you buy it?

Here's a better idea. Why don't we do like every other gaming company and make the livery editor a part of GT6, so we don't piss everyone off?

 

[Imari]

Who are you to decide what is or isn't a good idea for other people?

I'm me. I can decide whatever I like, last time I checked.

If you want to pay $20 for some paints, go right ahead. I've also got a magical tonic I'd like to sell you. If you rub it into your triceps thrice weekly before bed, it will take 3 seconds off your laptimes. Only $40 for a 10ml bottle. It's a bargain!

Look, people are more than welcome to pay ludicrous amounts of money for whatever they want. It doesn't make it less of a rip off. Maybe you get enjoyment out of it, and that's great. Maybe you get more enjoyment than anything else you could have done with that money. Awesome.

But paying an extra $20 for a livery editor for a game is a rort. Paying $2 for some single use paints is a rort. We might as well go back to GT HD and have full microtransactions at this rate.

Maybe that would be the best thing. But I wouldn't buy it. And I'm not sure how many others would either. Ultimately, it's about the future of GT. If people buy overpriced microtransaction stuff, PD will keep making it. If they get a serious backlash, they'll change their tune, as we've seen Microsoft have to do recently.

 

[Samus]

I'm me. I can decide whatever I like, last time I checked.

If you want to pay $20 for some paints, go right ahead. I've also got a magical tonic I'd like to sell you. If you rub it into your triceps thrice weekly before bed, it will take 3 seconds off your laptimes. Only $40 for a 10ml bottle. It's a bargain!

I think you'll need to go through Kaz as a middle man if you want to sell that, it seems for many people here it's only PD that they will allow to rip them off whether it be RM cars masqueraded as "Touring Cars", one use paint chip DLC, £30 for a steelbook and digital items or apparently now $20 for a livery editor.

 

[HKS racer]

I'm me. I can decide whatever I like, last time I checked.

Of course you can. You cannot decide for me or for other users. You can express an advice though.

I'll be glad to pay 50 € more for a full working flawless livery editor in GT not for paint chips. We have different priorities. If there are enough people interestend in something and are ok paying for that there could be a market. That said I don't expect a livery editor from PD in the first place, not even for an additional cost.

 

[Samus]

I'll be glad to pay 50 € more for a full working flawless livery editor in GT not for paint chips..

 

[Kobooi]

Kaz is working on his own magical tonic. When he was asked about laptime reducing tonics in a recent interview, he said "a laptime reducing tonic is certainly something we are thinking about, it is a big part of racing historically and passionate about realism and drama that a lot of fans want to see, and we just look into the best way i mean it's very hard but we're looking at it in a new way and I really think we will have a breakthrough. I don't know if the tonic will be in time for GT6 but it is something we're constantly looking to have it".
Later he gave the same answer on questions about a livery editor and pink elephants.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I'll be glad to pay 50 € more for a full working flawless livery editor in GT not for paint chips. We have different priorities. If there are enough people interestend in something and are ok paying for that there could be a market. That said I don't expect a livery editor from PD in the first place, not even for an additional cost.

I don't know man, won't that seem strange for a livery editor system to come in through DLC?

 

[Prodigy122]

I don't know man, won't that seem strange for a livery editor system to come in through DLC?

I agree with you... That would be really weird. I think either the game ships with a Livery editor or it won't have one at all. I would imagine that a livery editor would change the coding, and would take a long time to download.
-------
At this point, I'm not counting on a livery editor. I'm not being pessimistic. Just using what we know so far. We have a good idea that paint chips will make a return based on PD announcing of the 15th Anniversary Edition with "special custom paint chips". Also, as I've said before, the inclusion of a livery editor would be a HUGE selling/bragging point for PD and would've been something they announced in the beginning.

 

[HKS racer]

I don't know man, won't that seem strange for a livery editor system to come in through DLC?

Don't worry it won't happen. I'm just saying I would like to have one and I'm ok to pay for that, this might sound strange for someone but for me it's way more strange fool yourself pretending to have fun in a 16 cars race with the exact same livery. Or pretending to have fun racing SuperGT's against race cars from the 60's. I tried that for 2 years in a row but finally gave up because the immersion was below zero.

 

[tinram]

This is what i have said before. We cannot expect Gran turismo to have everything and still be at a standard price.

For example the F1, nascar, WRC (to name a few) gets to be their own games and people pay standard prices for them. Why should we expect GT to have everything and do each one right for the same standard price.

I still think GT would be greater if it started selling in modules. We could get a base game with street cars, sports, hyper cars and most tracks. Then we can get DTM series ( proper implementation), nascar, F1, WRC, SuperGT, Baja 100/Pikes Peak, Dakar, etc. as DLCs. And maybe a proper track maker, livery editor as DLC as well.

So yes, i'll pay for a proper livery editor if it came as a DLC.

Right now all we are getting is a preview of the different series and functionality, a little of this and a little of that.

 

[Terronium-12]

Where does this logic of "it can't have everything and still cost this much" come from exactly?

And why would you pay $20 for a feature that should be in the game?

 

[Aquarelle]

I'll never understand people being so willing to throw their money away instead of demanding they get more for their money - it absolutely baffles me as a concept.

Consumers drive the market; shouting from the roof tops that you'd gladly pay for something separately is only going to encourage that kind of behaviour - possibly to the point of content being cut from the 'original' release build to be sold off later.

Think.

 

[Isho]

Why should we expect GT to have everything and do each one right for the same standard price.

Because the things that we ask for should of been on GT a long time ago.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

This is what i have said before. We cannot expect Gran turismo to have everything and still be at a standard price.

For example the F1, nascar, WRC (to name a few) gets to be their own games and people pay standard prices for them. Why should we expect GT to have everything and do each one right for the same standard price.

I still think GT would be greater if it started selling in modules. We could get a base game with street cars, sports, hyper cars and most tracks. Then we can get DTM series ( proper implementation), nascar, F1, WRC, SuperGT, Baja 100/Pikes Peak, Dakar, etc. as DLCs. And maybe a proper track maker, livery editor as DLC as well.

So yes, i'll pay for a proper livery editor if it came as a DLC.

Right now all we are getting is a preview of the different series and functionality, a little of this and a little of that.

What kind of message would that send to PD if they knew people were okay with paying later for game features that should already be there in the first place? Do you guys want a GT game released that's as incomplete as GT5 when it came out, or even more so? But hey, if that floats your boat, go for it. I know I won't let PD rip me off by making me pay for a feature that is already standard in today's racing games. I hope GT dies off if PD ever tried such a stupid move.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I agree with you... That would be really weird. I think either the game ships with a Livery editor or it won't have one at all. I would imagine that a livery editor would change the coding, and would take a long time to download.
-------
At this point, I'm not counting on a livery editor. I'm not being pessimistic. Just using what we know so far. We have a good idea that paint chips will make a return based on PD announcing of the 15th Anniversary Edition with "special custom paint chips". Also, as I've said before, the inclusion of a livery editor would be a HUGE selling/bragging point for PD and would've been something they announced in the beginning.

Yeah that whole "custom paint chip" thing really has me wondering. I keep thinking its some sort of livery designing thingy to put on your cars (which will be awesome btw), but like everyone else it's better to have a livery editor all together where users can actually create designs from their imaginations and from the real world.

I totally agree with you, having a livery editor added into GT6 will give PD a huge selling point. If they do/or are working on one, it be odd that they haven't shown a preview of showing one yet. Guess we gotta wait and see I suppose.

Don't worry it won't happen. I'm just saying I would like to have one and I'm ok to pay for that, this might sound strange for someone but for me it's way more strange fool yourself pretending to have fun in a 16 cars race with the exact same livery. Or pretending to have fun racing SuperGT's against race cars from the 60's. I tried that for 2 years in a row but finally gave up because the immersion was below zero.

I know excatly what you're saying HKS, and I agree. Having a livery editor will really make online racing an art, just seeing everybodies customed designs on their cars, I'll never stop watching because it won't be the same boring designs here and there, haha.

It would be ok to purchase a livery editor system through DLC, but it'll feel kinda like the game left it out only to make money (only my opinion though), better to have it in the game at day 1. With the livery editor, I'll like to create some custom license plates like do in Forza.

 

[RACECAR]

What if they sold a seperate game just for livery editing. A seperate game that you could send your cars to edit the body, paint and livery, then send them back to gt6. DLC mini game maybe?

Lets say 19.99 usd? Would you buy it?

Makes about as much sense as putting all DLC ONLY on a separate disk as opposed to making it available as both a separate disk and optional download: Which is none. Sorry, but I draw the line at paying for another disk that has content I could easily have gotten through DLC or in the standard game in the first place. And holy crap, some of you guys would actually do that? Are people really that desperate?

And lets be realistic, they are not gonna charge you $19.99 for another complete game with additional content. That price is gonna go up.

Where does this logic of "it can't have everything and still cost this much" come from exactly?

I can't help but ask, where's the logic in any of these suggestions

 

[Rudenut]

This is what i have said before. We cannot expect Gran turismo to have everything and still be at a standard price.

For example the F1, nascar, WRC (to name a few) gets to be their own games and people pay standard prices for them. Why should we expect GT to have everything and do each one right for the same standard price.

I still think GT would be greater if it started selling in modules. We could get a base game with street cars, sports, hyper cars and most tracks. Then we can get DTM series ( proper implementation), nascar, F1, WRC, SuperGT, Baja 100/Pikes Peak, Dakar, etc. as DLCs. And maybe a proper track maker, livery editor as DLC as well.

So yes, i'll pay for a proper livery editor if it came as a DLC.

Right now all we are getting is a preview of the different series and functionality, a little of this and a little of that.

I agree with much of this. DTM series, WEC, maybe a grand am series I would pay more for. A livery editor on the other hand, in my opinion, should be included.

 

[amar212]

Where does this logic of "it can't have everything and still cost this much" come from exactly?

And why would you pay $20 for a feature that should be in the game?

Sorry T,

But why do you imply that livery editor as a potential feature "should be in the game"?

I fail to understand why is an optional feature strictly and only related to visual appearance of the vehicles suddenly considered as almost "mandatory"?

 

[tinram]

What kind of message would that send to PD if they knew people were okay with paying later for game features that should already be there in the first place? Do you guys want a GT game released that's as incomplete as GT5 when it came out, or even more so? But hey, if that floats your boat, go for it. I know I won't let PD rip me off by making me pay for a feature that is already standard in today's racing games. I hope GT dies off if PD ever tried such a stupid move.

Yep, exactly the message i'm sending.

Good physics should always be standard for most games too, but i do not see that either. I'm not in their forum complaining about it, maybe i should .

GT5 ... incomplete? It will always be incomplete (even on GT8), this depends on how you look at it. NASCAR is not properly implemented, F1 selection is not there, WRC stages are not there, livery editor is not there, track generator is rudimentary .... and on and on. With such breadth in the genre it will never be seen as complete unless it was done in a modular approach. This way we can only buy what we want. I'm not into Nascar so no need to get that DLC, into liveries then get the livery editor.

A livery editor is just as good as a good race series DLC to me.

Stupid move for PD? time will tell.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Sorry T,

But why do you imply that livery editor as a potential feature "should be in the game"?

I fail to understand why is an optional feature strictly and only related to visual appearance of the vehicles suddenly considered as almost "mandatory"?

I suppose it was due to the indication of that one of the events some years ago, 2008/9 maybe, about GT HD (?) had a list which contained a "promised" livery editor.

 

[amar212]

I suppose it was due to the indication of that one of the events some years ago, 2008/9 maybe, about GT HD (?) had a list which contained a "promised" livery editor.

It was even earlier, it was 2006 TGS keynote.

And it said "coloring/livery editor".

You can view on that from two perspectives. From "glass half full" perspective, we actually got "coloring/livery editor" in GT5, where you can color the car and edit the livery by coloring it (on Racing Modification/TC DLC modes for example). Also, livery can be "changed" by changing racing number on some cars (Racing Modification/TC DLC modes).

Of course, from "glass half empty" perspective, we never got livery editor in GT5 because "livery editor" is "livery editor" only when it allows for full change of livery under subjective perspective of every player about what "livery editor" actually means.

Also, everyone has to take into concern how above "coloring/livery editor" was nothing that was even remotely "promised". It was a keynote related to 2005-2006 ongoing project tentatively called "GT:HD" which was PD's first attempt to make a GT game on PS3 (scrapped only few months later in 2006 in favor of going full into new engine development for purposes of GT5).

Features "promised" on slide above are nothing but bullets related to some aspects of that "GT:HD" project development - not GT5 -that Polyphony was experimenting with backthen. And please take notice how that feature was part of the "ONLINE OPTIONS" functionality.

But nevermind, everyone can twist everything as he like to present something as "fact" although it has nothing to do with one.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Well you certainly remembered it better then I can. At least I remembered it was about GT:HD!

And I must say, I never really thought of the number and colour changing on a race modification as a "livery editor." Very subtle.

 

[HKS racer]

Where does this logic of "it can't have everything and still cost this much" come from exactly?

And why would you pay $20 for a feature that should be in the game?

Because some people think it's a priority. Some people buy Forza Motorsport, an Xbox and a Microsoft compatible steering wheel only because of the livery editor. Imagine Project Cars without templates, how many comunity skins they made at WMD portal? Half of the fun would be gone.

If you tell me 60 € for GT6 + 60 € for a 30 racing cars DLC and flawless livery editor with the option to import images from usb, at the end of the day I'll still save on a Forza+Xbox+steering wheel swich.

It was even earlier, it was 2006 TGS keynote.

And it said "coloring/livery editor".

You can view on that from two perspectives. From "glass half full" perspective, we actually got "coloring/livery editor" in GT5, where you can color the car and edit the livery by coloring it (on Racing Modification/TC DLC modes for example). Also, livery can be "changed" by changing racing number on some cars (Racing Modification/TC DLC modes).

Of course, from "glass half empty" perspective, we never got livery editor in GT5 because "livery editor" is "livery editor" only when it allows for full change of livery under subjective perspective of every player about what "livery editor" actually means.

I guess the "glass half full" perspective happens when the bottle is half empty or completely empty.

 

[HKS racer]

Delete.

 

[amar212]

Well you certainly remembered it better then I can. At least I remembered it was about GT:HD!

And I must say, I never really thought of the number and colour changing on a race modification as a "livery editor." Very subtle.

You can go even further in the past, back to 2004 and GT4 pre-reveal time.

This is a slide of GT4 presentation on E3 2004, just few months prior to GT4 November 2004 release.

Look closely to some interesting bullets on that list, especially under "facilities":

Race Area:
Safety Driving Park
Drift Contest

Car Area:
Classic Car Shop
Museum
GT Auto
Flea Market

Facilities:
Online Reception
Hall of Fame
Concert Hall
Civic Center
Information
Bank of GT
Parking
Paint Shop
Travel Office

What is "flea market"? "Bank of GT"? "Parking"? Hey, look, it is a "Paint Shop" - it is "promised" in GT4! What is "Travel Office"?

Now imagine how all those options were considered, obviously planned and designed for 2004 presentation, which logically means they are at least a decade "old".

I trust in PD. Always have and always will. They never lacked imagination and ideas. One day, all those beautiful concepts will become a part of some great GT game. And one day, maybe time comes for "livery editor" as many subjectively dream about. But before that, there is soooo many bullets on lists that are older then some GTP members

 

[Tornado]

You can view on that from two perspectives. From "glass half full" perspective, we actually got "coloring/livery editor" in GT5, where you can color the car and edit the livery by coloring it (on Racing Modification/TC DLC modes for example). Also, livery can be "changed" by changing racing number on some cars (Racing Modification/TC DLC modes).

I'm sorry, but even though I agree with the fact that it was never actually promised (though I disagree with the concept of developing and selling GT games in pieces); the above specifically is more like moving the goalposts than a glass half full thing.

Coloring a livery, sure. I can see that as editing it, even though you can only do it with the TCs, RMs and one regular race car. But changing the number isn't changing the livery if the number is completely detached from the livery itself and is instead mounted on a number plate (as it is in all of the cars you can do it with).

 

[amar212]

I'm sorry, but even though I agree with the fact that it was never actually promised (though I disagree with the concept of developing and selling GT games in pieces); the above specifically is more like moving the goalposts than a glass half full thing.

Coloring a livery, sure. I can see that as editing it, even though you can only do it with the TCs, RMs and one regular race car. But changing the number isn't changing the livery if the number is completely detached from the livery itself and is instead mounted on a number plate (as it is in all of the cars you can do it with).

My point is strictly semantical.

We don't know what PD considers as "coloring/livery editor".

We love to imply subjectively, based on our personal and subjective expectations that has nothing to do with actual outcome of development process or internal planning by PD (or any other developer in similar circumstances).

I do not try to "move goalposts", I am just playing Devils Advocate for the sake of objectivity and accuracy

 

[Terronium-12]

Sorry T,

But why do you imply that livery editor as a potential feature "should be in the game"?

I fail to understand why is an optional feature strictly and only related to visual appearance of the vehicles suddenly considered as almost "mandatory"?

Nothing to be sorry about.

I say it should be in the game because the case being made was someone would willingly pay up to $20 if not more for a feature that has absolutely no reason to not be included, for a game of GT's stature no less.

Strictly speaking, I wouldn't say it's mandatory but at the same time there's absolutely no reason for it not to be included.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Yep, exactly the message i'm sending.

Good physics should always be standard for most games too, but i do not see that either. I'm not in their forum complaining about it, maybe i should .

GT5 ... incomplete? It will always be incomplete (even on GT8), this depends on how you look at it. NASCAR is not properly implemented, F1 selection is not there, WRC stages are not there, livery editor is not there, track generator is rudimentary .... and on and on. With such breadth in the genre it will never be seen as complete unless it was done in a modular approach. This way we can only buy what we want. I'm not into Nascar so no need to get that DLC, into liveries then get the livery editor.

A livery editor is just as good as a good race series DLC to me.

Stupid move for PD? time will tell.

No, the game was literally incomplete. Features that weren't added until much later down the road and features that have been abandoned completely. *cough* Matchmaking *cough*