True, those features do play into the car ownership aspect. Though one could reasonably argue they fall onto the tedious side of things - I'm not playing a game to escape reality and drive a Ferrari only to be constantly bugged about changing the oil (which has no basis on reality in GT5 anyways - it's upkeep for the sake of upkeep in-game, no more). Having to do that doesn't increase my attachment to the cars I own, it just makes me resentful of having to waste a few minutes in-game going through painfully slow menus just to keep my car performing how it should. I recognize, of course, that your mileage may vary, and as you said, some people do enjoy this aspect of the game.
Well, I know it is debatable on way few levels, but ultimately it comes to this: consequences of ownership in GT series and corresponding maintenance-features are something that exist in the series since the first game and has been developing through every GT title with GT Mode. I think we can agree how that particular aspect is clearly fundament of theoretical term "GT philosophy" because of way how whole game is designed around it and how it has been enhanced with every new game.
Is is something very unique to GT series (as I said before, no other racing game has such feature) and it clearly represents a special type of "RPG approach" - we can go that far and connect it with Japanese origin of the game where various types of RPG-approach has existed since the early games of 80's - where in case of the GT series the particular car is treated as "alive" object that both "gains" and "loses" some of its "abilities" during its "life".
Same "RPG" (or CARPG, as I often call it when I discuss GT series) approach is prevalent in other aspects of GT series: "used cars" are obvious aspect of RPG-approach (as also one very unique feature to GT-series since the first game), in-game days which evolved to being a trigger for certain in-game events (used cars changes since GT4), License system, A-Spec points calculations (unfortunately scrapped from GT5), B-Spec mode, OCD dealership of GT5, Daily Login Bonus system and XP system.. even small "game within game" details, such as Paint Chip system, Museum Cards or Remote B-Spec races... all those are non-arguably various aspects of "RPG" approach within constraints of genre where GT series remains the only game that actually explore implementations of such concepts.
I don't know.. I am aware it is extremely subjective subject (pun intented :-P) but I personally admire GT series because of such approach and
would even love to see it evolve further in that way. Each to his own I guess..
It'd be interesting to poll the average GT5 buyer if a hypothetical livery system would give them more of a connection with their Pokemon-style collected fleet, or if removing most of the upkeep features in the game would represent a bigger comparative loss of connection. I'd love to know, if forced to choose one or the other, what the average person would prefer.
Well, I am not sure can we use the sales of GT series as any kind of *measurement* for the *average GT buyer*, but I guess how actual sales of GT series are showcase of the success of the concept in the market.
I do not love to use any community (such as GTPlanet, or even my own small GTSurgeons community) as example for anything, because in places such as those there is very small percentage of "average buyers". Communities are place where either hard-core fans and/or vocal minority persons express their opinions, often driven by various motivations that are in many cases non-important to "average buyer".
Of course, I think we would agree how "average buyers" would pretty much choose something in veins of "Livery Editor" in favor of "ownership consequences", but that is in fact the main point where GT series showcases the difference of its approach and stays unique. We agreed how choice of not including "livery editor" is purely deliberate and driven by design-decision. I do not have an idea what is the motif for such reasoning within PD, but it also shows they are not so ready to include one of the features that tops "wishlists" of vocal fans in every imaginable community (and they read the forums every day). Why? Well, I could go that far to say how some *pride* could be involved because such feature is something that is heavily perceived as main characteristic of another game that loves to present itself as GT-series main competitor. With some very small idea about perception of values within Japanese society I can say how such perception *could* play some part in their reasoning. With some other reasons, of course. But let us not go into writing a small book here
I am glad PD is not fast into going the "average buyer" way to be honest. We can see what is going on on the another side of fence because of such attitude. With or without "livery editor" I must admit I appreciate PD's way of doing things much more than any other. They are standing by their choices and they are developing systems and features they think are important or represent their own view on what GT-series should be. And general audience - as well as complete automotive industry - are showing they appreciate such approach. Again, I would love to have some basic "livery editor" or whatever, but I personally can absolutely live without it. In the same time, I personally think that complete genre and gaming in general would lose tremendously if PD would ever decide to sacrifice all different aspects of "CARPG" approach in order to satisfy mainstream trends.
I've said it before and I think I should say it again: Kaz showed that livery editor is coming to GT5 at. TGS 2006. I'm sure it's a feature in GT6, why would he just throw it away? Especially if he knows that we want it.
My own post from few pages back:
It says "coloring/livery editor".
You can view on that from two perspectives. From "glass half full" perspective, we actually got "coloring/livery editor" in GT5, where you can color the car and edit the "livery" by coloring it (on Racing Modification/TC DLC modes for example). Also, "livery" can be further "changed" by changing racing number on some cars (Racing Modification/TC DLC modes).
Of course, from "glass half empty" perspective, we never got livery editor in GT5 because "livery editor" is "livery editor" only when it allows for full change of "livery" under subjective perspective of every player about what "livery editor" actually means - which deeply falls under semantics, "personal expectations" and similar territories.
Also it should be taken into concern how above "coloring/livery editor" was nothing that was even remotely "promised for GT5". It was a keynote related to 2005-2006 ongoing project tentatively called "GT:HD" which was PD's first attempt to make a GT game on PS3 (scrapped only few months later in 2006 in favor of going full into new engine development for purposes of GT5).
Features "promised" on slide above are nothing but
bullets related to some aspects of that specific "GT:HD" project development - not GT5 - that Polyphony was experimenting with backthen. And please take notice how that feature was part of the "ONLINE OPTIONS" functionality.
Because he also know he can still sell milion copies without it. As Amar said we can argue for whatever reason they won't do it, but arguing won't make them changing decision. Only number of sales will. If we want a livery editor so bad we should just quit Gran Turismo and go either Forza or Pc sim racing. I choosed second option and I'm not regretting it.
That's pretty much it.
It would be a truly sad day if anyone would decide to throw away everything that GT games offers and have introduced in the genre in past - and will introduce in the future - because there is no option such as "livery editor". I don't know.
Maybe I have subjective and personal problems in understanding that, but I do not see any calls to *quit* some other games because they do not have much more important options and features for the driving genre or sheer amount of content or functionalites such as GT games are providing - but they have livery editor.
I have hard times understanding that and forever I will. But as I said numerous times, to each his own.
In GT4 it was a functioning feature. After a certain amount of mileage the car would become more ill handling. In some of the race cars this would manifest during one 24 hr enduro. The car would begin to, what I call, "stick steer".
This could only be remedied with a chassis refresh.
Correct, the whole *chassis* segment was much more pronounced in GT4. GT5 does it much more subtle and true "stick steer" (good term BTW) occurs probably much later in the life-cycle (I can't say when because I really try to keep my cars away from crashes and bumps, the GT4 system has teach me to look after my cars
)
