The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

[braunracing88]

The coming WEC season will see five factory teams battle it out for the championship. Should be quite a season.
http://www.fiawec.com/en/news/five-manufacturers-to-battle-it-out-in-2013_940.html

 

[Diehardracer]

The coming WEC season will see five factory teams battle it out for the championship. Should be quite a season.
http://www.fiawec.com/en/news/five-manufacturers-to-battle-it-out-in-2013_940.html

I think the GTE Pro will be the main watch in the GT classes. Sounds like all the teams AF Corse, Aston Martin Racing and Porsche AG Team Manthey are fielding top pairings. Bruni and Beretta look like they are nailed on to win the team another GTE title. No idea about the teams and drivers in the GTE Am class.

The LMP2 drivers are unfamiliar to me as a newbie to endurance racing but I am eager to see if Toyota has caught up with the Audi's. I think it will be very much closer this year.

 

[Wardez]

 

[RACECAR]

I think the GTE Pro will be the main watch in the GT classes. Sounds like all the teams AF Corse, Aston Martin Racing and Porsche AG Team Manthey are fielding top pairings. Bruni and Beretta look like they are nailed on to win the team another GTE title. No idea about the teams and drivers in the GTE Am class.

The LMP2 drivers are unfamiliar to me as a newbie to endurance racing but I am eager to see if Toyota has caught up with the Audi's. I think it will be very much closer this year.

Speed wasn't Toyota's problem as was proven with the final three rounds of WEC (and actually at Le Mans prior to the Ferrari incident and the Deltawing incident), it was just reliability at Le Mans.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Wasn't it toyota that said they didn't even expect to finish, and they were just going for outright speed?

 

[Jav]

Awesome trailer Wardez!! Can't wait!!

 

[Mac K]

^Agreed, that was fantastic. The countdown begins..

 

[sumbrownkid]

So the Delta Wing will eventually get an engine that's made from carbon fiber. Yes, that's right carbon fiber.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/alms-panoz-returning-with-new-deltawing-engines-chassis//P2/

A weight savings of only 20 pounds is nothing great. However if the car weighs like paper, then that loss of 20 pounds must be felt.

 

[freshseth83]

Wasn't it toyota that said they didn't even expect to finish, and they were just going for outright speed?

They weren't really unreliable! What took Toyota out? The #8 car with Davidson was running comfortably in 3rd place with no issues and got taken out by a bad move from a Ferrari AM driver. Car totaled, Davidson suffers broken vertebrae. Safety car, #7 Toyota in the lead and pits and rejoins behind the Audi. Nakajima hits the DeltaWing and damages the car. From there the reliability issues happened. They didn't specify anything but said that the car suffered an alternator issue then an engine failure. That could have happened from the contact with the DW. I think that's acceptably the explanation.

In other news- it seems Kamui Kobayashi is testing a Ferrari 458 GTC for AF Corse http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105532!

 

[Mac K]

Has anyone here ever gone to a race at Road America? What are some good spectating and photography spots? Places to eat, etc.

 

[cnd01]

Has anyone here ever gone to a race at Road America? What are some good spectating and photography spots? Places to eat, etc.

Get an rgp (really good potato)

 

[Furinkazen]

I believe Toyota #7's delay was due to the broken parts being in a place that was very hard to get to as Toyota didn't think they could break. Design fault if anything.

 

[freshseth83]

Lets be honest here, racing isnt as relevant to road cars as it once use to be. It's becoming much more and more entertainment based.

The Delta Wing says half the weight, half the power, and the same speed. But really is that a principle the automotive community doesnt already know about? Unique, aero efficient shapes like teardrops etc have already been played with by automakers. The delta wing dosent appear to provide adequate safety or room for passengers.

The point is, if they were serious about making racing more about developing technology that could help road cars they should start by banning all wings as they mean nothing for a road car. I know they claim LMP1 prototypes are "two seaters" but make them REAL two seaters. The 2nd seat should be able to be occupied by a full grown man at any moment, safely. Add rules where the cars must be road legal, that if they wanted to they could drive off the Le Mans circuit and on to the public roads.

I guarantee you Corvette is learning way more about helping their road cars with their GT program then Audi is with their LMP1. That big grill on the front of the C6? The racing guys asked for that.

I think DPs get an unfair bad rap. They're only 'slow' as they are because they're restricted to that.

Someone complained about a DP running lap times slower then a Corvette GT1 from 8 years ago. Big Deal. Formula 1 cars are lapping 2 seconds or so slower then they did 8 years ago. DPs are 6 or so seconds faster then the GT cars they race with, so theres little reason for them to be much faster, right now. Next year they'll have to be faster because of the GTE class and LMP2 and LMPC cars.

That someone was me. I don't think watching racing billboards on rock hard tires is as appealing as cars that hit 220mph and only lap around 10 seconds slower than F1. There's plenty of road cars that use wings as well. 👍 Even family sedans can be equipped with 'rear spoilers'.

I believe Toyota #7's delay was due to the broken parts being in a place that was very hard to get to as Toyota didn't think they could break. Design fault if anything.

It wasn't a design fault. It was the powertrain being so complex with the hybrid drive. No team thinks their car can't break, but the Toyota TS030 is definitely a trick machine.

 

[01GTP]

I don't think watching racing billboards on rock hard tires is as appealing as cars that hit 220mph and only lap around 10 seconds slower than F1.

That statement alone is a completely opposite observation as to what I like in racing.
It's not the speed alone that I like in racing, maybe if I were driving the car but I'm not, so actual speed to me makes no difference.
And it's relativity to F1 lap times doesn't matter unless it's racing an F1 car.

What I want is close competitive racing, whatever the sanctioning body has to do to achieve that is fine with me.

I think the best racing out there is in the Continental series which are as close to a street legal car that any (somewhat) major series in the USA has, maybe the world.
And it has many drivers that are world class.

Over the years I've started to notice how many drivers participate in a wide variety of racing and it's (to me) just as exciting as seeing the new cars.
Ryan Dalziel in an SRT this year is one of the most exciting stories of this year for me. Championship on the way? Watch these guys this year.
http://www.michelinalley.com/?p=12536

With all these different reasons why we love racing it's what makes us human and the racing so varied.
Something out there for all of us.

And I don't watch F1 racing, it's not my cup of tea.

 

[FoolKiller]

With all these different reasons why we love racing it's what makes us human and the racing so varied.
Something out there for all of us.

Which is what makes a merger a bad thing for fans. We all like different aspects of racing. When you combine two different things everyone loses a little of something they love.

But the financial situation requires things like this for either to survive.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105543

 

[cnd01]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105543

I can't wait to see that at Sebring and in the merged series next year.

 

[hawkeye122]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105543

Sweet. Hopefully they can knock Corvette off their high horse

 

[G.T.Ace]

GTE cars are much hotter than GT3. Love that beemer. <3

 

[Mac K]

That looks gorgeous, this is going to be a great year in GTE..

 

[Earth]

That someone was me. I don't think watching racing billboards on rock hard tires is as appealing as cars that hit 220mph and only lap around 10 seconds slower than F1. There's plenty of road cars that use wings as well. 👍 Even family sedans can be equipped with 'rear spoilers'.

Theres lots of forms of racing that arent as appealing as LMP1, so I dont see a reason to bash the DPs which put on a pretty good show and if given carbon brakes and better tires (Continental promises to step up their game) arent as slow as many may think. They would probably be right at LMPC pace. Part of the reason they're not as fast as most prototypes is that they're built to be stronger and cheaper to fix then a prototype with all these winglets and fragile parts.

P1 is going away from the merged series next year because the WEC is a more attractive option for manufacturers. Why let two or three privateer P1 cars dominate the show next year when you can have a dozen DPs, a few P2s and a delta wing go at it for overall honors in the new series?

 

[freshseth83]

Theres lots of forms of racing that arent as appealing as LMP1, so I dont see a reason to bash the DPs which put on a pretty good show and if given carbon brakes and better tires (Continental promises to step up their game) arent as slow as many may think. They would probably be right at LMPC pace. Part of the reason they're not as fast as most prototypes is that they're built to be stronger and cheaper to fix then a prototype with all these winglets and fragile parts.

P1 is going away from the merged series next year because the WEC is a more attractive option for manufacturers. Why let two or three privateer P1 cars dominate the show next year when you can have a dozen DPs, a few P2s and a delta wing go at it for overall honors in the new series?

The DP's will need a lot more than carbon brakes and better tires to be competitive with LMP2s. P1 is going away in N.A. because that's GA's way of trying to play their hand. They think their DP should be the top class, and there's no way to bring that up to speed with an LMP1. You can make reasons all you want, but the truth is GA doesn't really want to change all that much. "The Future" isn't as bright as you think it is. It's going to take a while if it ever succeeds. They had an opportunity to include their huge events in the ACO FIA series, but they didn't. The only thing they'll maintain is GTE and possibly LMP2. I wouldn't even bet on that...

Anyway, as far as the BMW Z4 GTE is concerned-
http://www.bmw-motorsport.com/en/news/current-news/2013/02/alms_bmw_z4_gte_launch.html

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/alms-bmw-launches-z4-gte they have a good amount of pictures from the launch.

http://www.motorsport.com/alms/news/bmw-z4-gte-takes-center-stage-with-team-rll-in-daytona/ has technical specifications

Length: 4,395mm (excl. rear wing)
Width: 2,010mm
Height: 1,205mm (depending on set-up)
Weight: 1,245kg (according to ACO regulations)
Tank capacity: 110 litres (according to IMSA classification)
Chassis/body: Steel body with welded safety cell

Transmission: six-speed sequential sport transmission, operated via shifting paddles mounted on the steering wheel, multiple ZF Sachs clutch

Front axle: McPherson axle with pushrods and wishbone, additionally with adjustable shock absorbers, H&R coil springs
Rear axle: Longitudinal links with wishbone, adjustable shock absorbers, H&R coil springs

Brake system: hydraulic dual circuit brake; monobloc multi-piston light alloy brake callipers, innver-vented steel brake discs, seamless brake balance adjustment (front and rear) by the driver

Wheels: BBS forged aluminum wheels, front axle: 12,5x18&#8220;, rear axle: 13x18&#8220
Tyres: Michelin, front axle: 300-680-18, rear axle: 310-710-18

Engine type: Eight-cylinder, V-configuration, four valves per cylinder, mandatory air restrictor (2x29.4mm)
Capacity: 4,400cc
Max. output: approx. 480bhp (with mandatory air restrictor)
Max. torque: approx. 480Nm
Cylinder block: Aluminum cylinder block construction
Engine management: BMW Motorsport ECU 408, without fuses, central display

 

[hawkeye122]

So it's just the M3 engine in the Z4 body, right?

 

[Tommi]

So it's just the M3 engine in the Z4 body, right?

Not quite, the M3 used a modified version of the street cars 4.0 V8 whereas the Z4 uses the 4.4 out of the M3 GTS. The GTE also runs less aero, has no driver aids and is slightly heavier than the GT3 car.

 

[Mac K]

Via ALMS Twitter

ALMS Racing &#8207;@almsnotes
Here's the boss checking out Clint Bowyer's new #Gen6 #NASCAR machine. Another step on the way to #TheFuture... pic.twitter.com/iwRQr9iI

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO, I really hope they worded that wrong..

Ahhhhh that's better..

 

[RACECAR]

So, does that explain this:

The DP's will need a lot more than carbon brakes and better tires to be competitive with LMP2s. P1 is going away in N.A. because that's GA's way of trying to play their hand.

Then tell me why no manufacterer has ever since attempted P1 in the ALMS or why the only teams that could ever compete were Dyson and Muscle Milk. You seriously think that in the current economy, LMP1 would've survived here in the ALMS? That fact it could not attract more entries post Sebring or prior to Petit Le Mans the last few years doesn't exactly seem to suggest it would've done much better if Grand-Am hadn't intervened.

They think their DP should be the top class, and there's no way to bring that up to speed with an LMP1. You can make reasons all you want, but the truth is GA doesn't really want to change all that much. "The Future" isn't as bright as you think it is. It's going to take a while if it ever succeeds. They had an opportunity to include their huge events in the ACO FIA series, but they didn't. The only thing they'll maintain is GTE and possibly LMP2. I wouldn't even bet on that...

Seriously, this is the sort of xenophobia that needs to stop. So many people keeps thinking this merger Automatically means a NASCAR take over when thats not true. There is no "trying to make DP the top class" going on. Explain to me how they are trying to make the DP class the top class by combining with another class. If this is so true, then tell me why couldn't they have just ditched LMP2 all together if they wanted to accomplish that? Why would Grand-Am even waste time supposedly developing a 4th-gen DP thats more closer to the new LMP regs if they only want DP as the top class? Wouldn't logic dictate that if you are pulling a hostile taking over of something, you completely ditch all of the old and replace it completely instead of keeping it and trying to compremise?

You set around saying Earth is "Making up" reasons when your "Nascar taking over" theory is more questionable and illogical then the very reasons Earth "made up". Sorry, but your facts like with many other elistest ALMS fans just seem like one big conspiracy made up of fear and disgust instead of actual research and you don't make it better by flat out claiming everyone is making up reasons.

Via ALMS Twitter

ALMS Racing &#8207;@almsnotes
Here's the boss checking out Clint Bowyer's new #Gen6 #NASCAR machine. Another step on the way to #TheFuture... pic.twitter.com/iwRQr9iI

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO, I really hope they worded that wrong..

Please tell me your joking with that reaction.

 

[-Fred-]

Someone please convince Mercedes-Benz to get the SLS into GTE.

Because SLS/Vette going down Mulsanne at full song is something that needs to happen.

 

[RACECAR]

That is one thing I find interesting about Mercedes. You would think with them making a GT3 car, they'd be abit eager in returning to racing at Le Mans. Guess they aren't that eager just yet.


Also, The BMW Z4 GTE car looks more spectacular then I imagined and I was very hopeful.

 

[Mac K]

I see a picture of Scott next to a NASCAR tagged with #TheFuture while a pending merger is in the the works.. So no I'm not. Judging by your reaction however I believe that you think I might have misunderstood something?

 

[RACECAR]

I see a picture of Scott next to a NASCAR tagged with #TheFuture while a pending merger is in the the works.. So no I'm not. Judging by your reaction however I believe that you think I might have misunderstood something?

I just misunderstood your reaction in the midst of all the conspiracy theories of the merger.