The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

LMSCorvetteGT2
Just a heads up it isn't a TS030, Porsche were leading in the end but broke down and had to retire with an hour and a half left. Audi won. Toyota's faster car broke down while the other one crashed and lost its chance to finish on podium. And that's about it.
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Man, that sucks for Toyota and Porsche :(. Well, Audi took the podium once again of the LMP1s. So how did Lucas, Jann and the rest of the GT Academy finalists did out there this year in their class?

And sometimes I call the Toyota LMP the TS030 personally, even though it isn't. :sly:
 
I have a feeling Porsche is going to destroy everyone next year.

This year they reminded me of Peugeot 2007. Super fast in a straightline, great qualifying pace, but slower in the race. Then in 2008 Peugeot was 5 seconds faster than the Audis. I have a feeling Porsche will be 3 seconds faster then everyone next year once they compliment their straightline advantage by turning it into cornering speed. If your so much faster on the straights you can afford to run more downforce
 
VspecZR1GT2RS89
Man, that sucks for Toyota and Porsche :(. Well, Audi took the podium once again of the LMP1s. So how did Lucas, Jann and the rest of the GT Academy finalists did out there this year in their class?

And sometimes I call the Toyota LMP the TS030 personally, even though it isn't. :sly:
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Well Lucas wasn't racing LMP2 and I don't think he has been for a couple of years now. And to be honest most GT guys don't run with each other anymore unless they're new academy winners or some special event. Jann came fourth in his class after they led for a good portion of the race, problems arise but they got it back out there to finish where it did.
Earth
I have a feeling Porsche is going to destroy everyone next year.

This year they reminded me of Peugeot 2007. Super fast in a straightline, great qualifying pace, but slower in the race. Then in 2008 Peugeot was 5 seconds faster than the Audis. I have a feeling Porsche will be 3 seconds faster then everyone next year once they compliment their straightline advantage by turning it into cornering speed. If your so much faster on the straights you can afford to run more downforce
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What straight line speed advantage? Toyota were faster almost all the scoring show this and only one quali session did it look like Porsche were 3-4 miles faster only to have that reality smashed. I dont doubt that they may destroy everything next year especially considering how good they did this year and flirting with a podium and win. However, they weren't much faster as you're suggesting, and they have the least amount of power out of all three, so it's quite a good job on their part to run the lap times they did.
 
LM 2014 - Found this on Fbook:

10471509_717263974996726_3598804963321597575_n.jpg
 
Roger the Horse
Yes... They finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 11th...
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How many of those didn't spent rather a lot of time in the pits getting repaired then?

The winner spent more time in the pits then ANY previous winner according to Radio Le Mans.

That does not speak well of any of the teams.
 
Tired Tyres
How many of those didn't spent rather a lot of time in the pits getting repaired then?

The winner spent more time in the pits then ANY previous winner according to Radio Le Mans.

That does not speak well of any of the teams.
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What kind of repairs? The ones that a certain user suggested proved hybrid systems to be faulty even though he didn't seem to have watched (nor did he deny when accused) the race. And even posed a question that he could have easily looked up and found a summary of events.

The #7 ran well for over half the race and then had a wiring loom issue, which (unless shown otherwise) has nothing to do with the hybrid system or IC being a failure. Rather just the entire harness that runs through the car having fault and causing a massive failure for that power to be delivered.

The #8 was reliable, the driver at the time wasn't and thus that was the issue.

The #14 saw the transmission break.

The #20 Was an actual PU failure and we knew it was failing for a good portion of the race in the several hours region and it almost finished with such a increasing issue.

Audi

#1 Had from what I recall injector problems (a turbo issue) and had to have them changed.

#2 Saw the turbos being changed out in good time for something that would probably take most twice the effort

#3 Was quite reliable, but you can't blame them for having a Ferrari (yet again) take out one of their cars.

So in all that I only see one car that really had a failure due to a hybrid system. You can try and argue the Toyota but unless you don't know what a wiring loom does...it's probably not best to try it.

All in all I'd say even if they spent a good amount of time in the garage, and more so than any other 24h race as said by RLM in the past is irrelevant; when a user claims that hybrid systems are an issue to the auto industry and this race proved that wasn't so not sure how one can defend. When in fact it proved to be another 24h of Le Mans race where even the non-hybrids had issues (Rebellion were horrid).
 
Err.... My reply was to Roger the Horse and has literally nothing to do with hybrid this or hybrid that.

My question is very straight forward.

How many of those didn't spent rather a lot of time in the pits getting repaired then?
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You really, really shouldn't be able to win the race if you spent that much time in the pits.
 
Tired Tyres
Err.... My reply was to Roger the Horse and has literally nothing to do with hybrid this or hybrid that.

My question is very straight forward.
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That's awesome, but in the context he answered to it is about Hybrid, asking an irrelevant question you know the answer to, thus giving him a loaded question... Why?

So yeah if you're responding to what he just said that is perpetuating why a certain users views are faulty on this years race it does have to do with the Hybrid. However, you seem to be trying to go on some tangent away from what the context of his answer was placed in.
 
Why don't they take a page out of the 24 hours of LeMons rule book and issue some better penalties for spinning your tires in the pits like writing "I will not spin my tires on pit road" 500 times with a sharpie on the car. Any contact would be an penalty where the offending driver has to stand on a stage in the campgrounds and act out his maneuver in front of the extremely drunk fans.

The point of all this sarcasm is that Dempsey got screwed. 3 minutes for spinning the tires and speeding was only 30 seconds???

Also, I saw where John Dagys incorrectly identified the Weather Tech Porsche as one of the Team Manthey ones. I found that ironic as hell
 
ITCC_Andrew
Thanks for the kind words, @LMSCorvetteGT2... I'm sure your mommy appreciates when you randomly call someone out on something irrelevant...

*is in Le Mans conversations, assumes touring car guy is stealing specs from Le Mans for touring car series*

Oh, wait, that makes no sense.



And, excuse me for exaggerating a rather obvious point. LMP1H - the future of automotive technology - had a failure rate above 50%. That's scary. Almost like GM's success rate with their new cars - recalls everywhere.


And why? Because the cars are unnecessarily convoluted without proper testing. But, I know you're going to brush this comment aside as I am posting something that you clearly don't want to read. Not my problem. Someone will appreciate my cynical comments for being truthfully exaggerated. There's an element of truth in my exaggerations, in other words you might actually understand. I feel like I have to say it twice for you to read and understand.


But, oh, continue to call my comments "asanine" or whatever... Because that is a more-worthy contribution than my actual exaggerated truth. I find, it goes to show how technologically sophisticated these cars are - their operating window is so narrow... The cars frequently run into trouble.


And, this technology will inevitably end up in your Kia Optima, Hyundai Accent or Audi A4. I sense trouble with the road cars that get these powerplants. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, though.
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Yet again you show how clueless you are about anything outside of ProtoTurtles. The LMP1H is new technology. New tech has issues always. Audi - 2 cars finished. 1 got crashed out. Toyota - 1 had an engine problem - that could happen to any car. The other one was crashed heavily and it was a miracle it got back going. The Porsches had electrical issues or niggles like the speed limiter sticking.

Come back, contribute something better than slanging things off when you have actually done research. I take it you could build a hybrid system LMP car better than Audi, Toyota, and Porsche. I take it you can build a bulletproof car that can run at 220mph for 24 hours straight through day, dry, rain, and night? Oh and even if you can, can you make it fast?

Consider the actual scale of technologies used and how close the competition was. The Toyota - RWD N/A V8, can almost double it's own HP. Porsche - RWD V4. Tiny unit focused on maximum effiency, heard rumours that it can develop around 750hp full chat. Audi - e tron 4WD system in a turbodiesel V6. Audi might have been slowest, but they were also not that far off the pace. And they were reliable. I also take it you will be objecting to the laser headlights Audi have in the cars that will filter down to the road range probably?

Actually, judge a race once you've watched it (did you watch 19 hours?) and done research and know about things. Then you won't sound like you are totally clueless (considering you also have even posted you are exaggerating things and that it is not a good contribution - you even just said this).

In fact i'll give you finish / fail rates:

P1-H: 7 started, 4 finished. 1 not classified due to not getting out pits in time.
P1-L: 2 started, 1 finished. New car, never ever run this distance and only ever had 1 race. Bravo to Rebellion Racing.
 
Furinkazen
Yet again you show how clueless you are about anything outside of ProtoTurtles. The LMP1H is new technology. New tech has issues always. Audi - 2 cars finished. 1 got crashed out. Toyota - 1 had an engine problem - that could happen to any car. The other one was crashed heavily and it was a miracle it got back going. The Porsches had electrical issues or niggles like the speed limiter sticking.

Come back, contribute something better than slanging things off when you have actually done research. I take it you could build a hybrid system LMP car better than Audi, Toyota, and Porsche. I take it you can build a bulletproof car that can run at 220mph for 24 hours straight through day, dry, rain, and night? Oh and even if you can, can you make it fast?

Consider the actual scale of technologies used and how close the competition was. The Toyota - RWD N/A V8, can almost double it's own HP. Porsche - RWD V4. Tiny unit focused on maximum effiency, heard rumours that it can develop around 750hp full chat. Audi - e tron 4WD system in a turbodiesel V6. Audi might have been slowest, but they were also not that far off the pace. And they were reliable. I also take it you will be objecting to the laser headlights Audi have in the cars that will filter down to the road range probably?

Actually, judge a race once you've watched it (did you watch 19 hours?) and done research and know about things. Then you won't sound like you are totally clueless (considering you also have even posted you are exaggerating things and that it is not a good contribution - you even just said this).

In fact i'll give you finish / fail rates:

P1-H: 7 started, 4 finished. 1 not classified due to not getting out pits in time.
P1-L: 2 started, 1 finished. New car, never ever run this distance and only ever had 1 race. Bravo to Rebellion Racing.
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I agree with nearly everything you say, but a wiring loom issue isn't a fault in the IC or hybrid system so I wouldn't call it engine related.
 
I'm talking about how they obviously didn't test the cars before Le Mans. For the budget Audi, Porsche and Toyota throw into the battle, you'd expect the battle to be one of better reliability.


If you made it my job to design Le Mans cars, that sort of budget and the tools and expertise of the teams, I could probably do a car which would finish. That is step 1. Winning is second priority, because you can't win if you don't finish.
 
ITCC_Andrew
I'm talking about how they obviously didn't test the cars before Le Mans. For the budget Audi, Porsche and Toyota throw into the battle, you'd expect the battle to be one of better reliability.
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Wow I had no idea you worked in the Porsche R&D wing, or the Audi one, or the Marketing side of Toyota... Amazing.

If you made it my job to design Le Mans cars, that sort of budget and the tools and expertise of the teams, I could probably do a car which would finish. That is step 1. Winning is second priority, because you can't win if you don't finish.
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Well one I wouldn't make it your job, there are enough failures in the past of the sport that we don't need even yours in this hypothetical world just created.

Two, cars did finish as told to you if you wish to break AUP by knowingly claiming things that aren't true, continue to do so at your own risk obviously.

Ninners
Are you serious?

They already had two 6 hour races and a pre season test at Paul Ricard. Do you even follow Le Mans/WEC?
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No he doesn't, cause that would be the smart thing to do when taking part in these conversations. He rather run before he can even crawl.
 
Kinda getting a little hostile in here...

Well Toyota definitely has the speed no doubt, but they just need to get the reliability. And perhaps sacrifice some motor oil to the car gods for luck next time.
 
I'm not claiming that no one finished.



What I am saying, is that it almost seemed a farce - I'm obviously biased towards touring cars, so maybe I should leave before really, really thrashing Le Mans... But I don't understand the purpose of a 24 hour race if it's not to be the pinnacle of engineering...

And, if the cars don't make it to the end, then they're not the pinnacle of engineering. I could take my Subaru Impreza, make it a hybrid, and get a Top 5 in LMP1-H.

That is what upsets me. The failure rate should be like 10%. That* would be exciting. Anyone would have the chance to win. A failure rate above 50% (if you count that Porsche as a DNF) means that a small class at the start is even smaller at the end. Woops.
 
Dude you'd probably crash your Subaru before the finish anyway.

Cars like the ZEOD broke after 24mins with a gearbox failure which is a conventional part.

Teams have had loads of time to improve the cars and iron out issues anyway.


Look at F1. Cars were breaking down and by the first race they weren't as bad as people thought. The Lotus could barely do 5 laps without breaking and now it can do a race distance every now and then.

These are world class teams and this is hybrid technology.
 
ITCC_Andrew
I'm talking about how they obviously didn't test the cars before Le Mans. For the budget Audi, Porsche and Toyota throw into the battle, you'd expect the battle to be one of better reliability.


If you made it my job to design Le Mans cars, that sort of budget and the tools and expertise of the teams, I could probably do a car which would finish. That is step 1. Winning is second priority, because you can't win if you don't finish.
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ITCC_Andrew
I'm not claiming that no one finished.



What I am saying, is that it almost seemed a farce - I'm obviously biased towards touring cars, so maybe I should leave before really, really thrashing Le Mans... But I don't understand the purpose of a 24 hour race if it's not to be the pinnacle of engineering...

And, if the cars don't make it to the end, then they're not the pinnacle of engineering. I could take my Subaru Impreza, make it a hybrid, and get a Top 5 in LMP1-H.

That is what upsets me. The failure rate should be like 10%. That* would be exciting. Anyone would have the chance to win. A failure rate above 50% (if you count that Porsche as a DNF) means that a small class at the start is even smaller at the end. Woops.
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Wow, not the pinnacle of engineering when the cars can average over 200km/h over twenty four hours. They retired because they were pushing them as hard as they would go. Your Subaru wouldn't easily last 24 hours of continuous running.

Touring cars, they do about 24 minutes.
 
ITCC_Andrew
I'm not claiming that no one finished.



What I am saying, is that it almost seemed a farce - I'm obviously biased towards touring cars, so maybe I should leave before really, really thrashing Le Mans... But I don't understand the purpose of a 24 hour race if it's not to be the pinnacle of engineering...

And, if the cars don't make it to the end, then they're not the pinnacle of engineering. I could take my Subaru Impreza, make it a hybrid, and get a Top 5 in LMP1-H.

That is what upsets me. The failure rate should be like 10%. That* would be exciting. Anyone would have the chance to win. A failure rate above 50% (if you count that Porsche as a DNF) means that a small class at the start is even smaller at the end. Woops.
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You genuinely have no idea what you are talking about.. See you on the grid at La Sarthe next year then.
 
ITCC_Andrew
I'm not claiming that no one finished.
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Yeah you did, it was implied in your posts more than once.

What I am saying, is that it almost seemed a farce - I'm obviously biased towards touring cars, so maybe I should leave before really, really thrashing Le Mans... But I don't understand the purpose of a 24 hour race if it's not to be the pinnacle of engineering...
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How is it not?

And, if the cars don't make it to the end, then they're not the pinnacle of engineering. I could take my Subaru Impreza, make it a hybrid, and get a Top 5 in LMP1-H.
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No you couldn't, and you seem to also imply that this is the first race where cars in the top tier didn't finish the race...

Or rather that cars this year and subsequent years weren't the pinnacle of engineering since they didn't finish. Though many things from those cars have made it into road cars so you point (or rather lack of one) becomes moot then...

That is what upsets me. The failure rate should be like 10%. That* would be exciting. Anyone would have the chance to win. A failure rate above 50% (if you count that Porsche as a DNF) means that a small class at the start is even smaller at the end. Woops.
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Um you were already corrected on your faulty math by me, and yet you still wish to press on.

Furthermore, there is about a page and a half of conversation you decided to avoid because you probably know you're wrong. So instead of sidestepping all that, why not address it rather than have us repeat.

@sumbrownkid It's not hostile he just has no clue what he's talking about, and thus decided to come in here looking like a W&N and then further emulates him by plugging his own vehicle like it's cool
 
That's my point, though - it's absurd that only three cars are classified at the end. Porsche or Toyota didn't get one car to finish.

Ridiculous, in my opinion.


Why even bother starting a race if you can't finish? Why spend the money?
 
ITCC_Andrew
That's my point, though - it's absurd that only three cars are classified at the end. Porsche or Toyota didn't get one car to finish.

Ridiculous, in my opinion.


Why even bother starting a race if you can't finish? Why spend the money?
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Once again, for I don't know the 32nd time, you're wrong. Maybe you should get it tattooed on your forehead, it'd make quite the story and be the only truth going on with you right now.

Toyota got a car to the finish so not sure what stats you pulled out of your rear but they're wrong. Porsche did get a car to the end (though more for show), and it had a conventional part break, like you see in most Motorsports of today.

The only thing ridiculous is your logic at this point. Because by your standards nearly every series should disappear.
 

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