The Parity Club - Interest Check and TestingFinished 

  • Thread starter BrandonW77
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So, I ended up doing some testing at Fuji (F) with the GT300 base models. Conditions were the same as the Motegi test, but I bumped up all the BBs to 3/2 (I ran 2/1 before, abs 0 of course) and ran 6 lap stints.

IS350 ---- 1:50.785, 145 mph
BRZ ------ 1:50.555, 148 mph
Impreza - 1:49.161, 148 mph
Garaiya -- 1:48.973, 151 mph
RX-7 ----- 1:48.945, 152 mph

I have to re-test the IS350 and the BRZ, those times just seem way too slow (especialy the scooby). Lexus is way down on top end, though.

Garaiya is probably the fastest (on default setups); it has a definite advantage in the corners but it's also the most 'edgy' and is prone to bite when its fur is ruffled. Naturally, it's also the most fun. Impreza is the easiest to drive and extract a consistent lap time from.

I'll test some downforce, ballast and maybe setup permutations soon.
 
(Can't copy paste with iOS8 :banghead:)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/107%_rule

BrandonW77
That's almost impossible to do though because of the range of cars and talent.
Click to expand...

I have little bit of experience with this. I believe it can work. It might requiee little bit extra work for few people but might make it easier for the rest.

The key is finding hp and weight limits that you cannot perfectly hit with one single car but have to find something in the range hitting the PP limit... For 2Close4 I used Shigeno for PP and weight but fully stripped Firebird for the hp limit. Even with weight reductions it is few hundred kg heavier. It has a small built in wang to even the weight bias though... Which again I evened out by using stock gear box for a while :D

So for Parity, for example your PP multiplied by 107% might work as PP and hp can be found from some Murican car you wish to see on grid ;)

If it makes it more complicated, forget about it but my experience is it already narrows the lap times pretty close with one driver with different cars. It will still need the lap time / max speed of course to balance between different skill levels.

I remember B, you said that all the tunes you did settled close to same PP value, right?
 
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I still can't agree with the idea @Cu3e. If you limit the pp and power/weight range, not everyone will be able to keep up. I'm not convinced the pp system is very good either. Also the variety of cars available to use even within a close amount of pp from one another when stock dont always perform the same when upgraded with the same parts and so therefore one car may need more power less weight than the other car. I don't like the idea of limiting the cars you can choose either.

I like having as diverse a grid as possible. On Sunday everyone was driving a different car except 2 who were both driving the scirocco.

I feel like if you want to take a car that is outclassed by other cars when stock and getting it up to speed you should be able to and you should also know what you're getting into if you do that.
 
I understand it might not work here. I need extra PP because cockpit view eats up a second in lap time. There are many such variables here and its good 👍
 
Cu3e
(Can't copy paste with iOS8 :banghead:)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/107%_rule



I have little bit of experience with this. I believe it can work. It might requiee little bit extra work for few people but might make it easier for the rest.

The key is finding hp and weight limits that you cannot perfectly hit with one single car but have to find something in the range hitting the PP limit... For 2Close4 I used Shigeno for PP and weight but fully stripped Firebird for the hp limit. Even with weight reductions it is few hundred kg heavier. It has a small built in wang to even the weight bias though... Which again I evened out by using stock gear box for a while :D

So for Parity, for example your PP multiplied by 107% might work as PP and hp can be found from some Murican car you wish to see on grid ;)

If it makes it more complicated, forget about it but my experience is it already narrows the lap times pretty close with one driver with different cars. It will still need the lap time / max speed of course to balance between different skill levels.

I remember B, you said that all the tunes you did settled close to same PP value, right?
Click to expand...

If we just had just a few cars this could work. But having to do all that for several different groups of cars (each group with a dozen or more cars) would be way more effort than I'm willing to exert, and I still don't think it would work well for this method and such a wide range of talent. Having such a broad selection makes it very difficult to find any regulations that would fit all of them.

Some of my cars end up being similar weight/power/pp but not always and even the ones that are close still can have a range to them. My FR's were closer but my FF's see a pretty wide gap. Example, last night I was driving the Atenzza and the old Civic hatchback and there was over 200kg and 30-40hp difference between the two, but they were similar in lap times. Figure that in with the wide range of talent we have and the whole thing becomes a real mind-bender.

The biggest thing is the talent/technique gap, a slower driver might need 50-60pp more just to keep up with a faster driver which means the specs between the cars are going to be wildly different. If you took our fastest driver and had them set a lap time in a stock car and then have our slowest driver take that same car and try to tune it to meet that time, they're going to end up being two totally different cars and their max speed is going to be different too. That makes any kind of regulations difficult to achieve. But that's also why I've left the range of cars wide open, everyone should be able to find a car they can get on target.

FYI, when I'm setting targets I use a car that's towards the top of the performance scale of a particular class and leave it stock. That means the majority of the available cars will need to be tuned up to meet target (it's much easier to speed a car up than slow it down). But I always make sure to have at least a couple cars that are faster than my target car, thinking that the slower guys can grab one of these cars and be fairly close to target out of the box. If you pick a car that's lower on the performance scale it's going to be much more difficult to get it on target, and occasionally there's a car that just can't meet the targets. I also recommend trying the lower of the available tires first because putting the softer compound on really skews the performance band and makes it more difficult to get on target. Generally the softer tires are good for 1.5-2 seconds but they also will increase the top speed.


(EDIT: I'm not trying to be negative or argumentative. I greatly appreciate your guys' input and interest. I'm just trying to explain what goes into this from my side and my thought process behind these decisions. This is a complicated way to race and it will never be perfect but it makes for some very enjoyable and intense racing. 👍)

KingKlingeling
talking bout variables :sly:
is there a target time already and at which fuji version are we racing.
I need something to do till sunday and danilo even more :cheers:
Click to expand...

Not yet. I wanted to test last night but my Swift was really too fast for it's own good so I had to ditch it and get a couple other FF's dialed in instead. I might try to jump on tonight before our racing to get some testing done. We'll do the version of Fuji without the nasty chicane at the end of the mid-track straight (I always forget which version this is). I have a feeling the GT300's are going to be tricky to get sorted, but hopefully we can make it work because this is something I've been looking forward to. 👍
 
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It has to be the Fuji Speedway GT then ;)
I'm out for some practise with a stock gt300 to get the feeling until the specs are announced :cheers:
 
KingKlingeling
It has to be the Fuji Speedway GT then ;)
I'm out for some practise with a stock gt300 to get the feeling until the specs are announced :cheers:
Click to expand...


Give me any feedback you can. Do you think SM tires are ok? Also, can you tune a few different cars to see if you can get them all to do similar times/speeds, and tinker with the aero to see how it effects things? I think the aero could be a good tool for dialing your top speed in. 👍
 
amarynceos
:irked: Well, that makes the testing I did on the full version pretty useless. At least the top speed data remains pertinent.
Click to expand...

Gah! Worst chicane in the game!! (Well, it's a tie with the first chicane at Ascari). :crazy: You were just testing the cars against each other in stock form though which doesn't really apply to what we're doing here, so no real loss. I will use that data to make recommendations though because we can see which ones are rabbits and which are turtles so I can recommend fast drivers take a turtle and slow drivers take a rabbit. 👍
 
Ok , did a practise , kept the cars stock (exept camber to 0/0) , changed oil, 10 laps each car.

Online, sm tires , abs 0 BB 2/1

Garaiya GT300 base model '08 - 1.43.371

IS350 GT300 base model '08 - 1.45.032

Impreza GT300 base model '08 - 1.45.102

BRZ GT300 base model '12 - 1.44.715

The only consistency I had was messing up T2 and the last corner :crazy:

Really not my favourite track , but practise will help

good luck and fun to all of you for todays races :cheers:

Edit: about tire grip :

More.than.enough 👍
 
Quick question off topic... Does anybody use headphones and can they offer any recommendations? I need to get a new pair as my old turtle beach cans are fubar!!!
 
hobbsy
Quick question off topic... Does anybody use headphones and can they offer any recommendations? I need to get a new pair as my old turtle beach cans are fubar!!!
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I have TB's, the blue ones, were about $80 USD IIRC and they're pretty good. Haven't used them in ages though, but they are hooked up. You can control voice and game volume separately as well as the sound of your own voice and I think you can even plug a phone/mp3 player in to play your own music overtop of the game action.

http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/ps3-headsets/ear-force-px22/344
 
KingKlingeling
tritton pro+
a bit tight on my big head :sly:
Click to expand...

Need to shave some of that fine German mullet! :sly:

herr-stig.jpg
 
I actually like that hairpin/chicane combo. It's a good place to make a move or at least get alongside and disrupt your enemy's rhythm. On the other hand, I really don't care for the kink that replaces it on the GT layout, it's more annoying to get right than T2 and it messes up the rhythm of S3.

Did some min/max DF runs with the BRZ base model.

Default DF: 1:45.090, 148 mph. (my usual few tenths slower than kkg, :irked:)
Maximum DF: 1:45.073, 144 mph.
Minimum DF: 1:45.616, 150 mph.

Minimum DF is about 3 tenths faster in sector one than maximum DF, roughly equal in sector two, and rather slower in sector three (almost a second most laps).

BRZ's default suspension setup is total and utter crap, btw, at least for me. Loads of understeer on entry and rather loose on exit. I think if I get a better setup on it, I can match the default DF and max DF times with minimum DF.

edit: I mainly use headphones, Skullcandy Navigators according to their box. Satisfactory and reasonable. (50 bucks I think?)
 
Whenever I've tried to make a move at that chicane, the person I'm trying to make a move on decides we can fit through there two-wide, and that's just not possible. It's barely possible to fit through there one-wide. :ouch: And I think the kink makes for a better rhythm through S3 because your momentum wasn't broken by the chicane, but that's just my opinion and opinions are like a-holes (everyone has one and they usually stink. :lol:)

So adjusting downforce makes no real difference in lap time but a fairly substantial difference in top speed. I think that could be a benefit to parity racing and make it easier to fine-tune to the targets. 👍

I didn't notice the BRZ having a crap setup, but then I wouldn't be able to differentiate between a good setup and a crap setup. I found it a joy to drive stock on SM, almost too easy actually. But I've been wanting to race it since release day so it will definitely be one in my stable. 👍
 
Yeah, I think several of us would be fine racing these on SH, even CS. :D Though no abs might get pretty tricky!

I'm torn between the RX-7 and the Garaiya, even though, seeing as they're the two fastest, I'd likely have to nerf them. I might set up the Lexus as well, I have a feeling it will be the least popular and I want to see the maximum variety possible on the grid. 👍
 
I wouldn't quite say that @BrandonW77. The lap times may not vary much with different levels of downforce and the top speeds certainly are affected by the down force BUT, increased downforce will improve cornering ability and give an advantage to those using the max downforce in the corners and those using minimum downforce to increase top speed and meet the target time will be going significantly faster on the straight. I'm not sure how this will translate to in an actual race environment but it seems there may be some issue with this. We will have to see.
 
Considering that anybody who's significantly faster on the straight will be breaching regulations, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I see high dowforce as an aid to those who need more lap time, it helps in the corners where they're losing time, and the lowered top end means that more power can be added without breaching the top speed limit.

Conversely low downforce will aid those who are too fast, by negating some of their advantage in the corners and by forcing power to be limited or weight to be added to keep from going over the top speed.

Throw in the option tyres to the mix plus setup changes (which can be worth seconds) and I think we should have enough variables to get most everybody on both targets.

edit: :odd: @ king
 
amarynceos
Considering that anybody who's significantly faster on the straight will be breaching regulations, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I see high dowforce as an aid to those who need more lap time, it helps in the corners where they're losing time, and the lowered top end means that more power can be added without breaching the top speed limit.

Conversely low downforce will aid those who are too fast, by negating some of their advantage in the corners and by forcing power to be limited or weight to be added to keep from going over the top speed.

Throw in the option tyres to the mix plus setup changes (which can be worth seconds) and I think we should have enough variables to get most everybody on both targets.

edit: :odd: @ king
Click to expand...

That's how I see it too, one tends to balance out the other. There was barely a half second difference in lap times which is fairly negligible but it had a significant effect on top speed. So if you're 2mph too fast you can crank up the d/f and only lose a tenth or two which isn't going to be a big deal. With the other tuning we've been doing, if you try to lose 2-3 mph you could end up losing a half second or more as.
 
amarynceos
Yeah, I think several of us would be fine racing these on SH, even CS. :D Though no abs might get pretty tricky!

I'm torn between the RX-7 and the Garaiya, even though, seeing as they're the two fastest, I'd likely have to nerf them. I might set up the Lexus as well, I have a feeling it will be the least popular and I want to see the maximum variety possible on the grid. 👍
Click to expand...


Umm, which RX-7 are you using?
 
The room is open for practice. Racing will begin a little after 8pm EDT.

EDIT: Well it was. New room up in a moment.

EDIT 2: Maybe........
 
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PSN seems Ridiculously slow!!! Just tried downloading of the PS store and things are taking forever. And its not my connection either!

Edit: Either way, i'm done for tonight, and I had a really good car setup to redeem myself with tonight :(
 

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