The Parity Club - Interest Check and TestingFinished

[BrandonW77]

So we are going to be using these cars next week too right?

Yes, at Suzuka.

 

[John Wells]

Sorry Brandon will reduce power for Suzuka:tup:

 

[BrandonW77]

So, opinions on the race cars? Was everyone (with the one exception) able to get their cars close enough to the targets to have good racing? It all seemed good to me, though we were spread out just a little more than we have been with the other cars. I enjoyed it, I've been wanting to race these cars for many moons and it was nice to finally have a proper go with them.

 

[Torzilla]

I had a great time with these cars. We were a little spread out but we were also in smaller groups so there was racing going on as opposed to individual cars doing laps. I only tested the RX-7 and Gaiyaria (I'm not even going to try to spell that correctly), but both cars were fairly easy to get on target. For the Gaiyaria I was hitting 151mph on the straight without doing anything to it, and overall I think i just played with the break balance a little to hit the target time.

So, opinions on the race cars? Was everyone (with the one exception) able to get their cars close enough to the targets to have good racing? It all seemed good to me, though we were spread out just a little more than we have been with the other cars. I enjoyed it, I've been wanting to race these cars for many moons and it was nice to finally have a proper go with them.

 

[KingKlingeling]

I had great fun, even though I was a lot slower then on my set up laps . it's easier to drive alone
I recognized it especially in the first race, but after adding 4 more PP in the break I was able to get a good pace .
I'm looking forward to suzuka because there a lot more opportunities to overtake and it's a great track 👍

 

[amarynceos]

It was good. I was a little disappointed personally, but that was solely because, like King, I was a lot slower in the races than my practice laps. Unlike King, I didn't adjust my car inbetween races, so in the last race I was simply uncompetitive. In our previous series I've been able to claw back gaps of 4 seconds or more to the lead pack, but on Sunday it just wasn't happening, even though most of my laps were fairly close to target. I ended up stuck in no-man's land, which wasn't terribly exciting.

Even though I understand why it's there, I don't care much for the 2mph allowance on the top speed limit. It's very frustrating when one's best speed in the draft isn't really any faster than another car's best speed without it.

 

[Cu3e]

For me the issue was lack of practice at Fuji and just getting used to the car. I was maybe +4 over top speed in first race and only +2 over in the following races, I think...

Going over the limit just a bit helps when you are not exactly familiar with the track. For top guys, you really do not need it

 

[daddyo845]

I could see that long straight being an issue being almost a mile long if you don't have anyone to draft, you are just going to get left in the dust.

 

[r34love]

It was quite a bit...

Like I said in the chat, try the limitter. Your speed was perfect at the curvy parts, it was just the straights where the power was an issue in my opinion. Limitter should help fix that without reducing the torque and acceleration and that should help bring you to same pace 👍

As much as I dislike the Limitter, situation like this is where it does get useful.

Off-topic: is that a bug or how a real life limitter works? I have seen cars limitted by 100hp but having ridiculous torque not affected by the limitter at all...

@Cu3e - That is somewhat true. Limiting horsepower will affect torque, but not by much. Mainly because torque is a different animal that occurs in a different rpm range, but the inverse is true. If you reduce torque (best done by shortening piston stroke), you will seriously affect horsepower. Makes for a busy job with drag racing engineers.

 

[BrandonW77]

It was good. I was a little disappointed personally, but that was solely because, like King, I was a lot slower in the races than my practice laps. Unlike King, I didn't adjust my car inbetween races, so in the last race I was simply uncompetitive. In our previous series I've been able to claw back gaps of 4 seconds or more to the lead pack, but on Sunday it just wasn't happening, even though most of my laps were fairly close to target. I ended up stuck in no-man's land, which wasn't terribly exciting.

Even though I understand why it's there, I don't care much for the 2mph allowance on the top speed limit. It's very frustrating when one's best speed in the draft isn't really any faster than another car's best speed without it.

Well, I'm not sure why you guys were suddenly so much slower, especially considering you dipped under target during qualifying. During race conditions I'm usually at least a few tenths off the target due to traffic, pressure, not being able to take the preferred line, etc., but it's never been a hindrance, so I guess I can't be of much help on that topic.

These cars draft a lot more than street cars (even with it set to Real) so catching up to two or three cars that were drafting when you didn't have a draft was very difficult. Also, because they have so much grip there were fewer mistakes being made, and thus less opportunity to make up ground.

I upped the speed allowance because these cars are very different to tune than the street cars we've been using and I was just trying to make it a bit easier for everyone to get on pace. My top end varies by 1-2mph every lap (depending on how good my exit is on the final turn) which is one of the reasons for allowing a slight overage on speed. I don't think most of us are capable of doing the exact same lap time and speed lap after lap, if you're hitting 150mph the majority of the time with an occasional 151 or 152 (if you get the magical perfect exit) then it shouldn't have much impact on the race. I realize that most people will think this means they need to be hitting 152mph every lap, but that's really not the intention. Tuning a car to a certain lap time is easy enough, but also getting it to hit a certain top speed with that lap time can be a bit tricky and 1-2mph difference is less detrimental to the racing than dipping 1-2 tenths below the target time. There has to be a small bit of fudge factor and allowing a bit of fudge on the top speed is the lesser of the two evils. (FWIW, DeadNuts also had the top speed allowance, for the same reasons). I will drop the allowance back down to 1mph for the rest of the races since we've had a chance to dial things in. Also, I was gaining up to 4 or 5mph with the draft, so if your speed in the draft was less than somebody outside the draft (johnwells excluded) than I suspect something else was going on.

The above is one of the reasons I've thought about building our own race cars as I discussed a couple days ago. For one, they have much less aero so there's more chance for bobbles/mistakes and the slipstream effect won't be quite as severe. Also, it allows us to use any/all of the tuning parts which makes it easier to tune to a multitude of skills/driving styles, with these full-blooded race cars our tuning options are limited which makes it a bit more difficult to get a whole grid on pace with each other. I've had a hard time getting the GT300 cars tuned to each other but with the street cars I can get one dialed in within 10-15 minutes (usually), the street cars are much more flexible which makes it easier to find/lose a couple tenths or a few mph.

 

[r34love]

Was great racing yesterday, and a decent turnout to boot! Apologies to Mr. Wells whom I bumped a couple of times racing for last. MR cars don't respond well to that, already making a slippery situation worse. I did substantially limit my horsepower and was going to raise it for the Tuesday race to see if I can better get in the thick of things, but I'm also trying to decide if I should try a different car.

The Garaiyas were passing me in the straight like I was sitting still and that was just tragic! Tragic I tell you! However, I fear that raising the limiter to make me competitive in the straight will give me a serious advantage in the turns. I think John Wells can attest to that since we did a few battles back there. But once we got to the straight, John didn't even need the draft to leave me quickly. (I'm Toby by the way).

Willing to try tuning the Silvia LM or NSX LM (both listed in database as GT300/Touring and 507PP stock), if anyone is curious? I can always go back to the Impreza but now is the best time to figure it all out. Let me know before tomorrow (EST) and I will try it. Again, great racing!

 

[BrandonW77]

Willing to try tuning the Silvia LM or NSX LM (both listed in database as GT300/Touring and 507PP stock), if anyone is curious? I can always go back to the Impreza but now is the best time to figure it all out. Let me know before tomorrow (EST) and I will try it. Again, great racing!

Feel free to tune/try whatever you like or feel comfortable with. There is a bit of difference between all the cars so experiment and see which one fits your style/speed the best. 👍

 

[Sjaak]

Yesterday's race pics.

It was a colourful race.

 

[Xiamoto]

I found my RX-7 Base Model to be a bit lackluster at Fuji during testing and races. The draft, or lack thereof, seemed to behave very strange. When leading for most of Race #1 .........I was surprised that even when I made mistakes.....P2 and P3 were not able to either close up on me or make pass attempts if they did. Definitely would need to give it another try on a more technical, turny course, so yeah, maybe Suzuka as a next step.........👍.

 

[Xiamoto]

........Yesterday's race pics.

..........View attachment 235797

I'm glad my RX-7 (#88 Black) being sideways a bunch of times really added to the "experience". Nice pics....👍

 

[amarynceos]

@BrandonW77 Yeah basically my Lexus has too much drag even trimmed out, it seems.

Personally the top speed should only be hit with a perfect exit onto the straight.

*redacted for whining*

 

[r34love]

I'm glad my RX-7 (#88 Black) being sideways a bunch of times really added to the "experience". Nice pics....👍

Great capture of the two "bricks" there!

@BrandonW77 , cool! I'll do some testing and tuning tonight. The Silvia seems to have potential. The NSX is more tail happy than the Garaiya. But I may try and tame it anyway. If I can find @suspension out there in JP. I think he lives right off the naval base there, so I have to check on him and his family. He's really good with... well, his name says it all. Will post my results tomorrow and will share any tuning data with anyone who wants to give it a go.

 

[Xiamoto]

Last round of online Quick Matches featured the GT500's at Silverstone. I had a blast with that one, ran probably 100 match races with them..... and for me they seemed way more lively than our GT300's @ Fuji. The slipstream seemed more dynamic with the GT500's there and I would be much more enthusiastic with these GT300's if they behaved a bit more like the GT500's did at Silverstone in the Quick Matches. Any idea why that would be the case? Did anyone experience the same? Why did those Quick Matches using default cars make for some better racing (IMO) than what happened at Fuji? Your thoughts?

 

[BrandonW77]

Last round of online Quick Matches featured the GT500's at Silverstone. I had a blast with that one, ran probably 100 match races with them..... and for me they seemed way more lively than our GT300's @ Fuji. The slipstream seemed more dynamic with the GT500's there and I would be much more enthusiastic with these GT300's if they behaved a bit more like the GT500's did at Silverstone in the Quick Matches. Any idea why that would be the case? Did anyone experience the same? Why did those Quick Matches using default cars make for some better racing (IMO) than what happened at Fuji? Your thoughts?

They have the slipstream on Weak, I had it on Real. It's much stronger on Weak, but you hit a pretty big wall of air when you pull out. I can turn it up to Weak if you guys want.

 

[GranTurismo916]

May I ask to be removed from this? School's taking over and I don't have enough time. I love this league, though.

 

[Xiamoto]

They have the slipstream on Weak, I had it on Real. It's much stronger on Weak, but you hit a pretty big wall of air when you pull out. I can turn it up to Weak if you guys want.

I'd be up for running a test race with slipstream set on Weak.....not sure I can make it Tuesday nite, however.

 

[BrandonW77]

Little something I whipped together with a video making app.

 

[amarynceos]

^^^ All the races have been fun, even Autumn Ring to an extent, but I think so far the Nurburgring GP round was the best.

I'd like to try at least one race with Weak Slipstream. I'm hopeful that it will keep the pack closer, not only because of the tow but because there will be more side by side running at the front which, will slow up the front runners and allow those who have had a little bobble here and there a chance to catch up.

It might also lead to some almighty shemozzles down at Turn One and at Dunlop.

 

[LongbowX]

I'm featured a lot in that promo.

I felt the races were good. Although the draft played a smaller role than normal, I thought it was overall good. I would lose ground on the straight against the front pack in the last race, but then gain it through the rest of the track (which tells me that MR-S probably be too fast for Suzuka ). The opposite was the case in Silvia (slow in corners, fast on straight), but it ended up about the same in the results, haha. The weak draft would be fine too...I'd be interested in trying it at least. Suzuka will probably have more mistakes anyway. It's a long lap, lots of time for small mistakes. The "Parity lap pace" is going to be difficult to hit lap after lap.

 

[amarynceos]

Yeah the relative strengths and weaknesses of the cars will be totally shuffled for Suzuka. I did quick 10-lap runs with my IS350 and Garaiya, using their Fuji setups. They went from being equal at Fuji to being split by almost two seconds at Suzuka, with the Lexus (as one would suspect) having the upper hand.

 

[BrandonW77]

Yeah the relative strengths and weaknesses of the cars will be totally shuffled for Suzuka. I did quick 10-lap runs with my IS350 and Garaiya, using their Fuji setups. They went from being equal at Fuji to being split by almost two seconds at Suzuka, with the Lexus (as one would suspect) having the upper hand.

I've done some quick testing at Suzuka and I think the targets will be 2:12 and 144mph/232kph. Let me know if those seem out of whack.

 

[amarynceos]

Oh dear. I was only hitting 140 on the straight with a 2:12, IIRC. Guess I have a lot of setup work to do!

 

[BrandonW77]

Oh dear. I was only hitting 140 on the straight with a 2:12, IIRC. Guess I have a lot of setup work to do!

I think the setup work might be causing the problems. I do not tinker with any of the settings for suspension or transmission or downforce, so other than the added power my car is completely stock and it handles like a stock car (it handles ok, but could be better). I know some of you guys have gone in and tinkered with the toe/camber/suspension which means your cars get around the corners much quicker and thus you need to reduce power to still hit the time target, reduced power resulting in a slower top speed. Just a theory, I noticed some of you guys would get through the turns much quicker than me but I would gain on the straight, so the theory makes sense.

I'm not saying you shouldn't tinker with the settings, but I think it could be causing discrepancies that we didn't notice as much in the street cars (everything seems to be kind of amplified in the bespoke race cars). I'm not sure how to address this, I don't tinker with the settings and never will so this is something that will be persistent with these kinds of cars. Maybe reducing your downforce by quite a bit would bring back some speed without significantly negating the suspension work you've done? Less downforce would slow you down in the corners but I'd guess your tweaked car would still handle better through the corners than an untweaked car with high downforce. Or not, I really don't know as I'm complete rubbish with a spanner.

 

[amarynceos]

@BrandonW77 , what car/configuration did you use to set target with?

 

[BrandonW77]

@BrandonW77 , what car/configuration did you use to set target with?

I think I used the BRZ, Lexus and Wedsport. I didn't use just one car because they're are some gaps in performance, so I found targets I could hit with several different cars. I'll try to have another go with them this evening to see if I come up with the same numbers. If you don't think those targets will work I'll try to come up with something else.