The Thrustmaster T500RS Thread

[mykem]

Guys, the reason I do want good quality graphics is because of the fact that it is easier to visually recognize the braking and turn in points or see how corners bend when you look almost flat over the road surface (like coming out of an uphill part with a low seated car, LMP?).
The sharper the graphics the more easily it will become to visually recognize certain points on the track ....

If you're talking good depth of field- being able to see far- then sim like rFactor (both of them), nKP, iRacing and GT5 don't use controlled or selective DOF in game/driving mode like SHIFT and now C.A.R.S are using. Although CARS (**** the dots) ain't as bad as SHIFT, it still uses them. You can see that anything in the distance in those two games appear either hazy or blurred (slightly in CARS but still).

I've brought this up on NGR forum for Ian Bell to answer- his opinion is that it's a legitimate style that they've chosen. Sure it looks pretty but despite the fact that the screen is indeed two dimensional, our eyes are still able to focus on specific objects/(pseudo) distance. For me, third person controlled focusing has no place in a good driving game/sim (even if it means I have to deal with slightly uneven frame-rates or screen tears).

 

[LogiForce]

Agreed, DOF is part of the graphics and having it blurred is bad. However that is only one part of it. The other is for example the gaming resolution (and thus resolution of the game as well) having to be as high as possible. For example I have a 32inch LCD television, a Philips 9000 series (highest series they offer with the best of the best stuff) and it has a resolution of 1080p@60hz. This however doesn't have enough PPI to show games well enough. In fact most monitors and TV's of that size don't.
I'm sure you're familiar with the retina display of the iPhone 4? It uses a high density PPI rate so that you don't see the pixels anymore. This is actually hardware wise what you would want for a sim racing game where you need a sharp DOF.

Then there is the other side. DOF with high enough anti-aliasing so that everything (all edges) look as smooth as a babies bottom at high resolution combined with a very high anisotropic filtering so that you get nice crisp graphical textures in the distance. Maybe the gaming companies should try making their own implementations of this using calculation systems like CUDA (forgot the name of the ATI equivalent) to even go higher then nVidia and ATI currently offer driver side.

Also we have to make texture look proper. Not only its graphical surface should be of high resolution to make it look real, but you'll also need things like tesselation and so on to give it proper structure. For example properly display bumps in the road or proper pieces of rubber on the track (instead of just black triangular blobs).


So yeah, the display they can't do much about as its customer side but they should offer high resolution support beyond 1080p because you would want to have a 24inch or bigger retina display. Which ain't gonna happen with such a big surface and such a low resolution. It would need to be 4 times that sharp (so 4320p @ 32inch for example). This needs to be supported texture wise and so on by the game natively, else you'll just get stretched and blurry graphics.
The other stuff the game developers should have their attention on as it's highly important. Of course all this will use up a massive amount of calculation power. Which is good in my opinion, it gives me a reason to actually upgrade my PC. For those who were (and maybe still are) pc gamers back in the day (10 years ago or further back) this was pretty normal. Now everything needs to be backwards compatible because else there will be whining gamers that their PC can't play the game. In this case I wish the game studios kept to their old ways of doing things and don't give a darn about those whiners.
I'll gladly upgrade my PC anytime anyway to play the game(s) I like.

 

[redmalloc]

Guys, the reason I do want good quality graphics is because of the fact that it is easier to visually recognize the braking and turn in points or see how corners bend when you look almost flat over the road surface (like coming out of an uphill part with a low seated car, LMP?).

I think I do understand your overall point and I agree in so much as it will bring games closer in-line with reality. i.e. More sim, less game.

But I don't entirely agree with your comments above. Seeing and visual recognition is far more related to contrast than resolution.

You can't see the apex better because it is represented by 4 pixels rather than 1 because the apex when you need to see it is going to be a lot of pixels. Even if the edge is a little jagged, does that really make it harder to see where the edge is?

A better texture (at the same resolution) or higher contrast will make it easier to visually clue. I just think at the pixel densities we are talking about the difference between 1080p and 4k wont make it easier to see. Maybe more life like but not easier.

Also are you considering viewing distance in this discussion? Because 1080p can be "retina" quality at the right size and viewing distance.

 

[fedexpress]

after playing rf2 beta, CARS feels like an arcade game on my t500

that's how good the ffb is in rf2, no joke!

sure cars has 100x better graphics but i rather ffb and feel over graphics anyday in a driving sim

 

[LogiForce]

I think I do understand your overall point and I agree in so much as it will bring games closer in-line with reality. i.e. More sim, less game.

But I don't entirely agree with your comments above. Seeing and visual recognition is far more related to contrast than resolution.

You can't see the apex better because it is represented by 4 pixels rather than 1 because the apex when you need to see it is going to be a lot of pixels. Even if the edge is a little jagged, does that really make it harder to see where the edge is?

A better texture (at the same resolution) or higher contrast will make it easier to visually clue. I just think at the pixel densities we are talking about the difference between 1080p and 4k wont make it easier to see. Maybe more life like but not easier.

Also are you considering viewing distance in this discussion? Because 1080p can be "retina" quality at the right size and viewing distance.

Get an Amiga emulator, play "Hard Driven'" and then come back to see if you still think contrast is enough for recognition.

The sharper the picture the easier I can see it, yes. Maybe it's because I wear glasses?

More life like indeed. Hell, its easier to see the road in real life then in a game isn't it? So it does make a difference.

I consider viewing distance. Did you consider that when hooking up a TV to a computer it is not always used in a livingroom area but can be used in a smaller room and thus have a smaller viewing distance? My viewing distance is that of a normal monitor but then I use my TV. So about 1 meter and about 2 when racing. With a 32" inch television it should be about 4 meters to 4.5 meters normally.
But again, the sharper the image the better the visibility at any distance. If the image on the TV is blurrier then the stuff around it then it still isn't sharp enough in my opinion.

after playing rf2 beta, CARS feels like an arcade game on my t500

that's how good the ffb is in rf2, no joke!

sure cars has 100x better graphics but i rather ffb and feel over graphics anyday in a driving sim

Did we play the same RF2? What were your settings as my wheel settings were stock and so were the settings in the game apart from changing the use of my Clubsport Pedals with the T500 as well as the TH8 RS.

 

[redmalloc]

The sharper the picture the easier I can see it, yes. Maybe it's because I wear glasses?

More life like indeed. Hell, its easier to see the road in real life then in a game isn't it? So it does make a difference.

I consider viewing distance. Did you consider that when hooking up a TV to a computer it is not always used in a livingroom area but can be used in a smaller room and thus have a smaller viewing distance?

I don't mean to come across as obstinate... but

1) Sharpness is actually not the same thing as resolution and is better described as contrast. Don't take my word for it.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/lens-contrast.shtml

2) Seeing the road in person easier than in a computer simulation? No, not true as a general statement. It is absolutely not true for me. I wear reading glasses and sit quite close to a 24" monitor or with distance glasses and 100" projection. It is above real life in size and the lighting is perfectly controllable. Because I can see pixels it is harder to see? No.

3) Viewing distance. No discussion of resolution is complete without discussion of viewing distance. Did I consider how you might use a monitor... of course that is why I asked.

 

[LogiForce]

1) Why the heck are we talking lenses now? That has absolutely nothing to do with the sharpness of a screen. Of course since our eyes see blue as being more bright for example (just grab red, green and blue LEDs and see for yourself) contrast has to be correct. Hence setting up your screen to be as close to real life colors is highly needed. Especially when working with photographs for example. However the more high the resolution the more easily contrast is created because there are more pixels to make a nice flow of colors rather then abrupt ones. Which makes it easier to display reflections correctly for example. That way you could see if the road is slippery somewhere for one.
Anyway, contrast and resolution are related to make a sharp image for your eyes to capture.

2) Eh... so you say you are willing to go back to an old CRT monitor from the 90's with a resolution of 640x480? It should be enough pixels right? The image isn't harder to see right? I think we all like to have monitors with a higher resolution so we have sharper looking images, that is if the monitor has the right contrast ratio. Also a decent backlight system can do wonders.
My glasses are for far away btw.

3) Actually I need to add a 4-4.5 meter distance to that as well. Since I am watching telly from my bed as well. So I need quite a versatile TV/monitor which is rare. (that and lots of connections to hook up all my computers and consoles. )
So I rather have a high resolution so that it looks very good from up close when I sit there and browse a few websites and use it as a normal computer monitor, looks great when sitting in my rig and looks awesome from my bed.

 

[BNGTracer]

So I rather have a high resolution so that it looks very good from up close when I sit there and browse a few websites and use it as a normal computer monitor, looks great when sitting in my rig and looks awesome from my bed.

So your rig turned up then Logi. Hope your enjoying it. It brings a whole other level to the sim racing experience. 👍

 

[MuRRe]

Anyone feel their T500 vibrating sometimes when in the menus?
Also. can u feel the tooths?
I feel it when driving, it's not totally smooth when turning the wheel...

 

[LogiForce]

So your rig turned up then Logi. Hope your enjoying it. It brings a whole other level to the sim racing experience. 👍

Tomorrow it'll show up I hope. It's still near Dortmund, Germany as we speak though. But figured it didn't make much of a difference if I took it into consideration in that piece of text.

After 3 days of cleaning and throwing old stuff out my room is sparkling clean in every nook and cranny, my PS3 has the update and DLC's installed. So can't wait for it to arrive.

 

[BNGTracer]

Tomorrow it'll show up I hope. It's still near Dortmund, Germany as we speak though. But figured it didn't make much of a difference if I took it into consideration in that piece of text.

After 3 days of cleaning and throwing old stuff out my room is sparkling clean in every nook and cranny, my PS3 has the update and DLC's installed. So can't wait for it to arrive.

Awesome. A clean of my games room is in order for February, long overdue
Your going to be glued to the seat for at least a week when it arrives, so enjoy.

 

[LogiForce]

Eh... same here. I never even touched certain areas of 'just dump it in here' storage space. I even found stuff from when I was a little kid in there. So long overdue was an understatement here. lol

I hope I won't be glued to the seat, I need to eat and go to the toilet. Also not to forget I have a birthday this Sunday I need to go to as well. But yeah, I'll probably use it a lot in the upcoming month(s). Now I have at least something decent to put the CSW on when taking photographs for example when the time comes. Or the CSR Elite (still need something for the xbox) if I buy one and if I feel like doing a review of it.
That said the current setup T500 + TH8 + T500 pedals or CSPs will be great on it as well and do deserve a decent rig.

 

[BNGTracer]

Eh... same here. I never even touched certain areas of 'just dump it in here' storage space. I even found stuff from when I was a little kid in there. So long overdue was an understatement here. lol

I hope I won't be glued to the seat, I need to eat and go to the toilet. Also not to forget I have a birthday this Sunday I need to go to as well. But yeah, I'll probably use it a lot in the upcoming month(s). Now I have at least something decent to put the CSW on when taking photographs for example when the time comes. Or the CSR Elite (still need something for the xbox) if I buy one and if I feel like doing a review of it.
That said the current setup T500 + TH8 + T500 pedals or CSPs will be great on it as well and do deserve a decent rig.

Yeah mate. You will need to get up for the necessaries
I am using the TM pedals as I don't run any PC sims yet, though I'm hoping that load cell mod mentioned in the TH8 thread for them is still going ahead as I have never used pedals with a load cell instead of a potentiometer.
I hope to get my Mac setup to run windows in the next few months, then I will start getting a bit more serious about acquiring load cell pedals.

 

[LogiForce]

Yeah mate. You will need to get up for the necessaries
I am using the TM pedals as I don't run any PC sims yet, though I'm hoping that load cell mod mentioned in the TH8 thread for them is still going ahead as I have never used pedals with a load cell instead of a potentiometer.
I hope to get my Mac setup to run windows in the next few months, then I will start getting a bit more serious about acquiring load cell pedals.

John Bodin has been posting himself in there. I'm sure he'll do his best to keep us up to date and to finish it properly. If he could add magnet sensors like on the CSP's then it would be perfect. You just can't compare the accuracy of both pedals in my opinion, noticeable difference in the heat of battle as well.

 

[BNGTracer]

John Bodin has been posting himself in there. I'm sure he'll do his best to keep us up to date and to finish it properly. If he could add magnet sensors like on the CSP's then it would be perfect. You just can't compare the accuracy of both pedals in my opinion, noticeable difference in the heat of battle as well.

I'll be watching closely, hopefully he can achieve the result of both PC & PS3 compatibility.

 

[LogiForce]

I'll be watching closely, hopefully he can achieve the result of both PC & PS3 compatibility.

Already done I believe if I read correctly. Plus his design that he posted showed that you will just get a box with loadcell circuit board in between the current pedal cable and the wheel so you can easily switch if wanted. So since the pedals still send a signal directly to the wheel you can use it on PS3 too.
Now all we need is a good Xbox compatibility device that will translate HID to XID and vice versa.

 

[priesty_lfc]

Anyone feel their T500 vibrating sometimes when in the menus?
Also. can u feel the tooths?
I feel it when driving, it's not totally smooth when turning the wheel...

Wrong thread,

This is about tv's/screens/rigs :/

:/

 

[MuRRe]

Wrong thread,

This is about tv's/screens/rigs :/

:/

What are you talking about?
This the T500 RS thread, about the wheel?!

 

[Mr. S]

What are you talking about?
This the T500 RS thread, about the wheel?!

Nope, it's about the new Terminator.

About the wheel: did anyone try to put a better fan into the case? Thinking of a Papst one, silent but deadly. Err...well. Y'know what I mean.

 

[MuRRe]

Nope, it's about the new Terminator.

Ok, where is the thread about the original T500?

 

[WildRun]

VESARO Simulator (black motion rig setup with a 4+ metre wide projection).
Testing on iRacing + p.C.A.R.S.
With T500 RS (GT & F1 Wheel), TH8 RS & CSR E.

 

[mykem]

VESARO Simulator (black motion rig setup with a 4+ metre wide projection).
Testing on iRacing + p.C.A.R.S.
With T500 RS (GT & F1 Wheel), TH8 RS & CSR E.

There are few problems I'm seeing in the video- the obvious is the screen- too big and too far especially when you're running cockpit view. Looking at out of proportion cockpit, steering wheel and hands can be quite disconcerting.

Less obvious is the motion setup. For something that's hardly moving, it's better to have a static steering wheel (ie. the wheel isn't mounted on the moving platform). That way you're actually get (to feel) the opposite pull when cornering. When you mount the steering wheel on the platform- it's moving in the same direction as your body- the sensation when cornering becomes muted.

 

[VINCE__]

I would hope for as much as that rig cost one could mount the wheel higher. Looks like he is driving a Jazzy scooter. It just looks wrong. Nice try though.

 

[OwensRacing]

There are few problems I'm seeing in the video- the obvious is the screen- too big and too far especially when you're running cockpit view. Looking at out of proportion cockpit, steering wheel and hands can be quite disconcerting.

Less obvious is the motion setup. For something that's hardly moving, it's better to have a static steering wheel (ie. the wheel isn't mounted on the moving platform). That way you're actually get (to feel) the opposite pull when cornering. When you mount the steering wheel on the platform- it's moving in the same direction as your body- the sensation when cornering becomes muted.

I'd personally want my wheel fixed to my seats relative position.

I'd think the wheel moving would have zero realism for me.

However I am open for some reasoning outside what was posted. Cause when your strapped in that wheel and you stay the same.

 

[Mr. S]

So, today my T500 started making weird fan noises. It sounds like it doesn't start correctly or something like that. However, it's running fine if I unplug the whole thing (AC, not USB) and plug it in immediately again.

 

[LogiForce]

So, today my T500 started making weird fan noises. It sounds like it doesn't start correctly or something like that. However, it's running fine if I unplug the whole thing (AC, not USB) and plug it in immediately again.

Your fan is off balance either by wear or dust build up. Needs a replacement since the fan when off balance won't reach it's max RPM.

Hrm... on a personal note. I am of the opinion they should use better quality fans. Papst anyone?

 

[Mr. S]

Your fan is off balance either by wear or dust build up. Needs a replacement since the fan when off balance won't reach it's max RPM.

Hrm... on a personal note. I am of the opinion they should use better quality fans. Papst anyone?

I thought about replacing it...meh. Great, I've bought this thing less than a month ago...

 

[LogiForce]

I thought about replacing it...meh. Great, I've bought this thing less than a month ago...

For all it's worth, my fan that I got as a replacement just got the same issue tonight. I wonder if these fans were made by Delta Electronics... which aren't the best in the world in my opinion.

I am going to have a nice look around and maybe replace mine myself. And for your information this is already the replacement fan from Thrustmaster acting up.

Bought my wheel about 4 to 5 months ago I reckon.

 

[paskowitz]

Just sent my T500RS back to Amazon for a refund. Oddly enough, the right paddle acted up again out of no where. Also, the turning speed of the wheel is far less than it was when I got it. I wish I had taken a video, but I would say it now turns 30-40% slower.

 

[LogiForce]

That sucks. I am starting to think that the low end gear is the better equipment to race with because they are more reliable. Which is something I personally would expect the other way around. The more money I put down for better gear, the more reliable it is as well.

On a personal note, I find reliability to be non existent in most products of any kind (cars to microwaves) in general. There are always exceptions to the rule but it's hard to find them.