The Tuner Garage Battle Thread [CLOSED]
- Thread starter psychot|K
- 209 comments
- 15,969 views
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
- 757
- Paris
- BlueShift
Or not
I'd say any driving aids exept SRF will be ok. The other trade speed over control so in the end, the speed can make a difference.
For the car, what about the car we can either win through the game or cheap (<200k cr) premium cars ? The car isn't fixed , it's a "find a car/tune that is the best" ? I was hoping for the same car for all participants !
For the tracks, Suzuka is a good all-around track but you forget the Nür...
- 2
- nelson8403
I'd like to test some of these out if you still need drivers
psn - nelson8403
psn - nelson8403
- 11
- RR_BodyRollin
Personally I really like the idea of a tournament style bracket...I think it adds more of a personal touch to a battle between two garages, instead of being entirely grouped together and somewhat faceless
Issues with driving aids and lower standard drivers.
1. Sometimes a tune is perfect for top end drivers, but average / low end drivers just won't be able to handle it. By having poor drivers, we could easily be harming those tuners who absolutely nail the numbers on a car for top drivers.
2. Changing driving aids could cause further problems if we have poor drivers testing. If we have a lot of poor drivers, you essentially have to cater your tune to them and turn all the driving aids on for maximum time returns from those drivers. Yes you will lose out a small amount from the best drivers, but it won't even be close to the amount you will gain from the poor drivers actually being able to get round the track.
Overall I like the idea of set limits on driving aids. Maybe have defined settings for all tuners. Say TCS 3 and ABS 1, all others off.
Having defined aid settings and good drivers will allow the tuners to do what they do best and actually tune the car, rather than having to constantly worry about these other factors.
1. Sometimes a tune is perfect for top end drivers, but average / low end drivers just won't be able to handle it. By having poor drivers, we could easily be harming those tuners who absolutely nail the numbers on a car for top drivers.
2. Changing driving aids could cause further problems if we have poor drivers testing. If we have a lot of poor drivers, you essentially have to cater your tune to them and turn all the driving aids on for maximum time returns from those drivers. Yes you will lose out a small amount from the best drivers, but it won't even be close to the amount you will gain from the poor drivers actually being able to get round the track.
Overall I like the idea of set limits on driving aids. Maybe have defined settings for all tuners. Say TCS 3 and ABS 1, all others off.
Having defined aid settings and good drivers will allow the tuners to do what they do best and actually tune the car, rather than having to constantly worry about these other factors.
- 129
- shaneth / GTP_shaneth
While i agree on the defined aids point of view. Not sure about the poor drivers point of view.
To me a good tuner should be able to tune most cars for the majority of the population to drive and handle. Obviously good drivers will be able to extract more out of the car then a poor driver, but having a mix of drivers will give you the overall ability of the car for the general populace. You will find even good drivers will favour a tune. That's why if you want to extract the absolute most out of the car you would have to get the tuners to fine tune it to your particular driving style i.e. more oversteer or understeer etc etc.
And to add to that if you have 5 good drivers and 5 poor drivers it will even itself out anyway. Or you might just use only the top 5 times to work out the fastest. Least that way nobody is left out.
If i have missed your point entirely or are just plain wrong let me know.
- 1,155
- artic_zap
While i agree on the defined aids point of view. Not sure about the poor drivers point of view.
To me a good tuner should be able to tune most cars for the majority of the population to drive and handle. Obviously good drivers will be able to extract more out of the car then a poor driver, but having a mix of drivers will give you the overall ability of the car for the general populace. You will find even good drivers will favour a tune. That's why if you want to extract the absolute most out of the car you would have to get the tuners to fine tune it to your particular driving style i.e. more oversteer or understeer etc etc.
And to add to that if you have 5 good drivers and 5 poor drivers it will even itself out anyway. Or you might just use only the top 5 times to work out the fastest. Least that way nobody is left out.
If i have missed your point entirely or are just plain wrong let me know.
Agree with you.
- 264
- Wienish
I wanna say I'm not independent anymore, since I have set up my own garage
Count me in as being the WTG or Wienish' Tuning Garage.
Thanks
Btw, is this going to be a contest of which car drives best or which car does a lap fastest? Cuz I see some people discussing about good drivers, bad drivers, cars suitable for all kinds of drivers, and stuff...
Count me in as being the WTG or Wienish' Tuning Garage.
Thanks
Btw, is this going to be a contest of which car drives best or which car does a lap fastest? Cuz I see some people discussing about good drivers, bad drivers, cars suitable for all kinds of drivers, and stuff...
- 1,155
- artic_zap
I wanna say I'm not independent anymore, since I have set up my own garage
Count me in as being the WTG or Wienish' Tuning Garage.
Thanks
Btw, is this going to be a contest of which car drives best or which car does a lap fastest? Cuz I see some people discussing about good drivers, bad drivers, cars suitable for all kinds of drivers, and stuff...
Based on average lap times from what I understand.
While i agree on the defined aids point of view. Not sure about the poor drivers point of view.
To me a good tuner should be able to tune most cars for the majority of the population to drive and handle. Obviously good drivers will be able to extract more out of the car then a poor driver, but having a mix of drivers will give you the overall ability of the car for the general populace. You will find even good drivers will favour a tune. That's why if you want to extract the absolute most out of the car you would have to get the tuners to fine tune it to your particular driving style i.e. more oversteer or understeer etc etc.
And to add to that if you have 5 good drivers and 5 poor drivers it will even itself out anyway. Or you might just use only the top 5 times to work out the fastest. Least that way nobody is left out.
If i have missed your point entirely or are just plain wrong let me know.
I think you understood my point mostly, you just disagreed with it, which is okay
Added.
You bet we are! Added.
Or not
I'd say any driving aids exept SRF will be ok. The other trade speed over control so in the end, the speed can make a difference.
For the car, what about the car we can either win through the game or cheap (<200k cr) premium cars ? The car isn't fixed , it's a "find a car/tune that is the best" ? I was hoping for the same car for all participants !
For the tracks, Suzuka is a good all-around track but you forget the Nür...
Yep, my thoughts exactly. Either the eligible car must be somewhat affordable or win-able. But win-able within reason, no crazy 24-hour endurance races!
Sure do! Added.
Yeah... I'm starting to come around to that way of thinking as well. Problem is, I totally suck at making brackets. Anyone do fantasy sports leagues in their spare time who can help out with the tourney setup?
Well, you see, since the poor drivers MUST submit lap times for ALL the tunes, it shouldn't matter. If the driver posts a 1'41, 1'42, and 1'43 for setups A, B and C, and a great driver posts 1'37, 1'38, and 1'39 for the same setups, the result will be the same.
Really, only the delta between setups for the drivers matter, NOT the actual lap times posted. We could have them submit them using a "+" system and the result would be the same (setup B was +1.0 sec slower than the absolute fastest setup, which is granted a zero, thus the fastest).
I wanna say I'm not independent anymore, since I have set up my own garage
Count me in as being the WTG or Wienish' Tuning Garage.
Thanks
Btw, is this going to be a contest of which car drives best or which car does a lap fastest? Cuz I see some people discussing about good drivers, bad drivers, cars suitable for all kinds of drivers, and stuff...
Changed your entry on the list for ya
This contest is all about speed. Which setup can manage the fastest lap-times in the hands of multiple skill levels of drivers wins. We're also throwing around the idea for penalizing setups which may be extremely quick, but extremely unforgiving at the same time (tracking this by looking for a high variance, or standard deviation, of lap times submitted).
That isn't where the problem arises for me. I probably explained myself badly
Sorry for the long posts too, I could easily write a chapter on what I have to say, its difficult to keep it all concise!
The thing is with lower end drivers, there is a much higher variance. The top drivers may post between 1'41 and 1'43 on every lap, whereas a worse driver could post 1'46 up to 1'56*. They are also much more likely to post worse times just because they are having an off day, better drivers tend to drive much more consistently at all times.
A perfect tune may get shot down very quickly purely because one bad driver couldnt get warmed up and posted a few very poor lap times (through no fault of the tune).
I guess to some extent the problem can be remedied by not using an overall average, but a driver based rating system. The tune that ended up with the most first places would end up winning. This could smooth over a huge number of problems, as if one particular tune got unlucky with how their car was driven, it wouldnt kill their competition.
---------------
Addition*: This could be "fixed" by displaying the data differently too. +1 second etc doesnt take in to account the higher variance of poorer drivers, and hence puts too much weight on their lap times.
Say a driver posts 1'38, 1'39 and 1'42 for three different tunes. They are marked as 0, 0.25 and 1 respectively.
Another driver posts 1'44, 1'52 and 1'54. They are marked as 0, 0.8 and 1 respectively.
Again, sorry for long posts, I'm doing everything I can to not turn this in to a full on chapter! Feel free to tell me to shut up!
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- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
I don't know if you have to penalize them, seeing as how a lot of it will be biased, to driving styles, especially when looking at LSD specifics. The 'stability' of the car, can be directly related to the 'throttle control' of the driver. It seems unfair in general, seeing as how it's impossible to set a 'standard' LSD that works for everyone. Heavy footed people will always find the car less 'stable' then feathered footers. Just seems like more variables than needed.
Besides, we all know the closer to the edge of out of control, the faster you get
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
👍 professional work 👍
- 333
- odinsrighthand
I'm in as a tuner, Deutsch Rennsport
- 757
- Paris
- BlueShift
I can help with the rule system.
I play a lot Super Street Figther games, the most popular 1v1 tournament in Japan is with winner/looser brackets.
Let's say 8 competitors starts the tournament.
Each one starts in winner brackets, making matchs 1v1.
There is 4 looser, 4 winner.
The 4 winners stays in winner brackets, with two 1v1.
The 4 loosers go in looser brackets with two 1v1.
The winner of winner brackets matchs stays in winner bracket, their looser go in looser brackets.
The winner of looser brackets matchs stays in looser bracket, their looser go out of the competition. there's two round : first with the looser bracket as it is, the second is with loosers from the winner bracket.
Finals :
Winner bracket final winner go in the final match
Looser bracket final winner go in the final match
The looser have to win that match or he loose the competition
Then there's the Grand Finale, the winner win the competition.
Winner bracket is like "Heaven" and looser bracket is like "Hell".
Example :
Players A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
1st round
Matchup :
- A-1 winner A looser 1
- B-2 winner B looser 2
- C-3 winner C looser 3
- D-4 winner D looser 4
- E-5 winner E looser 5
- F-6 winner F looser 6
- G-7 winner G looser 7
- H-8 winner H looser 8
Winner brackets :
Players A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H
Looser brackets :
Players 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
2nd round
Winner brackets :
- A-E winner A looser E
- B-F winner B looser F
- C-G winner C looser G
- D-H winner D looser H
Looser brackets :
- 1-5 winner 1 looser 5
- 2-6 winner 2 looser 6
- 3-7 winner 3 looser 7
- 4-8 winner 4 looser 8
---
- 1-E winner 1 looser E
- 2-F winner 2 looser F
- 3-G winner G looser 3
- 4-H winner H looser 4
Winner brackets :
Players A, B, C, D
Looser brackets :
Players 1, 2, G, H
Out of the competition this round :
Players E, F, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
3nd round
Winner brackets
- A-C winner A looser C
- B-D winner B looser D
Looser brackets
- 1-G winner 1 looser G
- 2-H winner H looser 2
---
- 1-C winner 1 looser C
- D-H winner D looser H <- revenge !
Winner brackets
Players A and B
Looser brackets
Players 1 and D
Out of the competition :
Players G, 2, C, H
4th round
Winner bracket finale
- A-B winner A looser B
Looser bracket semi-finale
- 1-D winner 1 looser D
---
Looser bracket finale
- 1-B winner 1 looser B
4th place : player D
3rd place : player B
Still in competition A, 1
The Finale
- A-1. If A wins, he wins the tournament and 1 is second. If 1 win he'll access to the grand finale. Let's say 1 wins.
Heaven and Hell Finale
- A-1. The winner win the tournament.
Since we compete on times on a given car, that would make 6 cars max to tune (4 round + 1 or 2 finales) for 16 competitors and looser bracket second match can be solved very easy, it's just time compare.
And each round a "GT Tuning Award" can be given to the best tune of all remaining participants so that make a lot of prize to ditribute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-elimination_tournament
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- 264
- Wienish
Why penalty the extremely good tunes? In my opinion, every tune has it's good points, but also some bad ones. Like if you are going for acceleration and speed, you have to search what the actual possible top speed is, and there's a great chance of not having a good handling once you managed to get your car to over 400.
@ the point system above here. There are like 10 test drivers, that each drive 8 tunes, right? I think they should drive 10 laps with every car (if you drive the car for the first time, you might not know the car yet, and you might not know the circuit yet, which results in worse times. If you do this system in where people could lose chance to get the title. If you want to ask what I want to see: I was thinking of this point system. Fastest time on track 1 receives 10 points, number 2 receives 7, 3 gets 5, 4 gets for and so on. If you think the lap time is all that matters, I think this could work out good. If you also want to rate the tunes in other aspects, like handling, just let the test drivers give points for that as well. To point out that it's still a speed contest, but with this little approvement, let the test drivers give a maximum of 5 points for the other stuff.
@ the point system above here. There are like 10 test drivers, that each drive 8 tunes, right? I think they should drive 10 laps with every car (if you drive the car for the first time, you might not know the car yet, and you might not know the circuit yet, which results in worse times. If you do this system in where people could lose chance to get the title. If you want to ask what I want to see: I was thinking of this point system. Fastest time on track 1 receives 10 points, number 2 receives 7, 3 gets 5, 4 gets for and so on. If you think the lap time is all that matters, I think this could work out good. If you also want to rate the tunes in other aspects, like handling, just let the test drivers give points for that as well. To point out that it's still a speed contest, but with this little approvement, let the test drivers give a maximum of 5 points for the other stuff.
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I don't know if you have to penalize them, seeing as how a lot of it will be biased, to driving styles, especially when looking at LSD specifics. The 'stability' of the car, can be directly related to the 'throttle control' of the driver. It seems unfair in general, seeing as how it's impossible to set a 'standard' LSD that works for everyone. Heavy footed people will always find the car less 'stable' then feathered footers. Just seems like more variables than needed.
Besides, we all know the closer to the edge of out of control, the faster you get
What I'll do is crunch those numbers myself behind the scenes. If it doesn't make sense after the first month's battle, I'll scrap the idea.
Couldn't of said it better myself!
Added, thanks for volunteering!
That's a whole lotta matches. I think just single elimination is fine. We need to wrap these up shortly, and the more effort we ask of the volunteer drivers, the more I'm afraid we'll see them drop off.
Yeah, I won't implement the standard deviation test for the upcoming battle. I'll do the work and see if it makes sense.
Done!
Agreed! Sorry about my hiatus. I was out of the country on some last minute business, and they don't have a whole lot of internet where I was
Done!
For the February car selection, I was thinking about grouping cars together. After some consideration, 1000 cars, and all the individual desires on GTPlanet is just too great to have a single poll for car selection. I'd also like to limit the cars to dealership-available, or cars easily won by most (Furai, Minolta).
I propose the following for February:
JDM Sports Car Tuner Garage Battle
Cars: Honda NSX Type R '02, Mazda RX-7 Spirit-R Type-A (FD) '02, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X GSR Premium '07, Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec II Nür (R34) '02, Subaru Impreza WRX STi (BBS Wheel Option) '10, Toyota FT-86 Concept '09
If that sounds reasonable, I'll make the voting thread ASAP.
I propose the following for February:
JDM Sports Car Tuner Garage Battle
Cars: Honda NSX Type R '02, Mazda RX-7 Spirit-R Type-A (FD) '02, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X GSR Premium '07, Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec II Nür (R34) '02, Subaru Impreza WRX STi (BBS Wheel Option) '10, Toyota FT-86 Concept '09
If that sounds reasonable, I'll make the voting thread ASAP.
- 333
- odinsrighthand
No euro's? Why?
