The war on ISIS.

[Furinkazen]

This one is for you @DK.

 

[DK]

It's a bit out of date @Furinkazen. :/

 

[KSaiyu]

So put them in prison, and bring the vulnerable and at-risk youth to them for intervention.

Prisons are a fertile ground for radicalisation

At no point should "the suffering of a child is acceptable" be a policy.

Then you risk the suffering of a lot more children.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Prisons are a fertile ground for radicalisation

Once again, you read what you want to read in someone's comments. Go back and read what I said again. I was talking about the people who are radicalised, but grow disillusioned with the ideology. They're hardly likely to become re-radicalised.

Then you risk the suffering of a lot more children.

Except both of us know that this isn't the case. If a young child taken to Iraq or Syria can be so easily influenced to be radicalised, then they can be just as easily influenced away from it, because a child's mind is malleable - it doesn't fully develop until the teenage and adulthood.

 

[KSaiyu]

Talking about the other inmates.... Can you say those returning won't radicalise other prisoners? And how do you tell if they're disillusioned?

 

[Dennisch]

And how do you tell if they're disillusioned?

'I tried to press the switch, Doc, but I just couldn't do it.'

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Can you say those returning won't radicalise other prisoners?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I have made it pretty clear that this applies to the former radicals who are no longer radicalised - so how, exactly, are they supposed to radicalise others when they no longer believe in the cause?

 

[KSaiyu]

So you want to put former radicals in prison, hope they don't radicalise others and then...release them back into society?

 

[Dennisch]

So you want to put former radicals in prison, hope they don't radicalise others and then...release them back into society?

Come on man, think a bit harder, instead reacting like this.

 

[KSaiyu]

Meanwhile....

Europe is within reach of Isis after Sirte airbase falls

Islamic State militants in western Libya have seized control of an airbase on the Mediterranean, raising fears that the global jihadist group could use its new territory to attack Europe.

On Thursday jihadists took the remaining parts of Sirte, Colonel Gaddafi’s home town, which lies just a few hours across the sea from South Italy, after a two-month offensive against forces loyal to Libya Dawn, one of the country’s two administrations.

The capture of the town extends the reach of Isis along the coast of Libya, where it controls three towns on the Mediterranean coastal road. The jihadists’ success has added to the chaotic state of the oil rich country, which has loosely fractured into three parts with two rival administrations based in Tobruk in the east of the country and Tripoli in the west. The south is largely disputed and in the grip of tribal warfare.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/article4455271.ece

 

[Dennisch]

The good news about IS just keeps on coming.

Now it has become clear that they have a free path towards the Turkish border.
Should be interesting to see what the Turks gonna do about it.

 

[mister dog]

I wonder how long 'our leaders' will stand by and watch. Until they reach Morocco?
A cancer needs to be cut out before it spreads itself, the sooner the better.

 

[Dotini]

I wonder how long 'our leaders' will stand by and watch.
A cancer needs to be cut out before it spreads itself, the sooner the better.

Begs the question, who are our leaders??

 

[mister dog]

Begs the question, who are our leaders??

Those nitwits that like to call themselves that way

 

[Dennisch]

I miss George W.

 

[Dennisch]

Another Dutch Isis nut has been killed in the caliphate.

Another one who will not be coming back.

 

[Carbonox]

Another Dutch Isis nut has been killed in the caliphate.

*pic*

Another one who will not be coming back.

What I find most concerning is that it takes 3 words in Dutch to say "like".

 

[Dennisch]

What I find most concerning is that it takes 3 words in Dutch to say "like".

Vind ik leuk is I like this. I could have just been Leuk but we need to remain special.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Talking about the other inmates.... Can you say those returning won't radicalise other prisoners? And how do you tell if they're disillusioned?

You're right, all places where radicalisation of any kind might occur should be closed immediately. We should close prisons, schools, hospitals, playgrounds and, worst of all, internet forums. You should see the nutters on forums, honestly.

 

[KSaiyu]

You're right, all places where radicalisation of any kind might occur should be closed immediately. We should close prisons, schools, hospitals, playgrounds and, worst of all, internet forums. You should see the nutters on forums, honestly.

That's a bit extreme. The suggestion was deny them re-entry.

 

[Dotini]

We are perhaps on the verge of the perfect solution, a final apocalyptic war between Shiite and Sunni, Iran and Saudi Arabia and all their clients across the Middle East. I congratulate the US for this genius-level strategy that pits our enemies against each other. Sun Tzu and Machiavelli might approve from their graves. In the ideal case, it will be over in a few months and end all wars to come. /

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/06/10/269371/mideasts-worst-case-a-big-war.html

 

[High-Test]

@Dotini I admire the sarcasm but can't bring myself to "like" any of it. Sadly, I fear you're right.

 

[Vegard]

Sun Tzu and Machiavelli might approve from their graves.

I think they might rise to applaud actually.

 

[Rage Racer]

Some news from Pakistan that made me laugh to tears.

Two suicide bombers blew themselves up after getting into a fight one another:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...etting-fight-one-putting-explosive-vests.html
No one else was hurt.

 

[Carbonox]

Why is a NATO country helping NATO's enemies like this?

 

[KSaiyu]

Because it's an Islamist country helping an Islamist organisation. Still, their elections are a sign of hope.

Oh and we lost another one

I do have a problem with one point made by the family however:

The family of a teenager believed to be Britain’s youngest suicide bomber accused Islamic State leaders of cowardice yesterday for luring him into carrying out their “dirty work”.

Talha Asmal, 17, from Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, who travelled with a friend to Iraq in April, is thought to be one of four suicide bombers who killed at least 11 people in co-ordinated car bombs in the country on Saturday.

I don't think he would have needed much luring, considering the state of Dewsbury. Taken from "Islamic Republic of Dewsbury", written by Danny Lockwood:

"Down below me a trans-Pennine service train pulls to a halt, on the near platform – eastbound. I can’t see if any young Muslim men have disembarked having caught the train from Manchester, the fervour of their faith shining brightly , suitcases or holdalls at hand, headingoutside onto the station forecourt looking for a taxi to take them to the Markazi mosque. They travel here week in, week out, not just from around Britain but from all over the world, to take residence at the religious seminary housed within the sprawling, secure compound of the mosque. The quest for a global Islamic caliphate has many encampments in the territories of the Kuffar – the infidel, the unclean, the non-believers. Us. But none of those havens are quite so embedded, secure, influential and completely unaccountable as the Markazi *, here in the heart of Dewsbury. In the heart of what I used to think was my town.

Now it’s the town of Baroness Warsi of Dewsbury. Small, sweet, smiling, witty Sayeeda, who just a few years ago was sitting in a hairdresser’s chair unwittingly alongside one of my former members of staff. She was wondering aloud whether to accept the political courting of Labour or Conservative , both astutely aware of the value of an educated, articulate and politically ambitious Muslim woman. She certainly backed the right horse.

At times I’ve fondly imagined I played some meaningful role in putting Sayeeda there, and then I think I can still detect the dainty, metaphorical footprints on my back and shoulders where my ‘friend’ manipulated my media usefulness on her cynical climb to fame – and power."

Yes that Sayeeda Warsi. The one who some still believe was completely oblivious to an Islamist plot of entryism into British politics.

*Muslims involved in the 7/7 bombings attended prayers at the Markazi mosque

 

[Dotini]

Because it's an Islamist country helping an Islamist organisation. Still, their elections are a sign of hope.

Complexification: Turkey is helping ISIS because Turkey is a Sunni country and ISIS is the sole source of security and stability for Sunnis in Iraq and Syria. The US, Britain, Saudi Arabia and many other countries support ISIS on that basis as well.

Sunni is the majority of Muslims in the Middle East. When the US invaded, conquered and installed democracy in Iraq, it broke the back of Sunni relative to Shia. Al Qaeda and now ISIS have stepped in to fill the void, and to prevent Iran and the Shia from controlling the failed state of Iraq.

IMO, we are all on the horns of a dilemma. We must support the majority in the Middle East, because we are democrats and for the majority. The Sunni are the majority. However much we dislike their tactics, we grin and bear it. We made the giant mistake of destroying the Sunni regime in Iraq and allowing the Shia to take power, a mistake we might have to live with in perpetuity. ISIS is the Frankenstein monster we have created by default. The only conceivable road to progress is to divide up Iraq into regions according to Sunni/Shia/Kurd. But now we lack the money, energy, vision, time, and political goodwill to accomplish this remediation. Our toolkit to fix things consists mainly of hammers.

 

[DCP]

Just seen now that Iraq is actually modern Babylon. Okay.
Haven't been up to date with Isis. Last I heard they were hacking into the pentagon.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Complexification: Turkey is helping ISIS because Turkey is a Sunni country and ISIS is the sole source of security and stability for Sunnis in Iraq and Syria. The US, Britain, Saudi Arabia and many other countries support ISIS on that basis as well.

Sunni is the majority of Muslims in the Middle East. When the US invaded, conquered and installed democracy in Iraq, it broke the back of Sunni relative to Shia. Al Qaeda and now ISIS have stepped in to fill the void, and to prevent Iran and the Shia from controlling the failed state of Iraq.

IMO, we are all on the horns of a dilemma. We must support the majority in the Middle East, because we are democrats and for the majority. The Sunni are the majority. However much we dislike their tactics, we grin and bear it. We made the giant mistake of destroying the Sunni regime in Iraq and allowing the Shia to take power, a mistake we might have to live with in perpetuity. ISIS is the Frankenstein monster we have created by default. The only conceivable road to progress is to divide up Iraq into regions according to Sunni/Shia/Kurd. But now we lack the money, energy, vision, time, and political goodwill to accomplish this remediation. Our toolkit to fix things consists mainly of hammers.

I would like to throw this caveat in there, it may not be the official government position to help ISIS, but it isn't going to stop ordinary citizens from doing it either. That is why Turkey is a popular point to be smuggled into ISIS controlled lands. If the US, and the rest of the world quite frankly, want Turkey to crank down on people who do provide material support, one way to do it is not by economic sanctions, but by blanket travel bans not unlike the one that is applied to Syria.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I would like to throw this caveat in there, it may not be the official government position to help ISIS, but it isn't going to stop ordinary citizens from doing it either. That is why Turkey is a popular point to be smuggled into ISIS controlled lands.

I think that's more to do with simple geography and the fact that Turkey is a popular airline destination... other than Iraq the longest Syrian border is with Turkey.