The war on ISIS.

[ExigeEvan]

No, you're seriously underestimating them.

Really? Because apart from extremely limited reports of guided munitions, all I've heard from the region has been limited fast jet capability providing CAS with machine gun and rocket fire.

By their own admission they've struggled with the MANPAD threat from rebels and Daesh forces, leading them to fly higher and higher and drop munitions less accurately than before.

Well, let's hope there will be a neutral investigation (and the rebels let the investigators on their territory) that will find whoever is to blame. I'd like to live a little more.

Perhaps Assad will take advice from Putin, and delay the investigation as much as possible before eventually disregarding it's conclusion.

 

[Touring Mars]

It makes no sense to me why Assad would use chemical weapons.

Well, it depends on how cynical you are prepared to be - clearly anybody willing to use sarin on innocent men, women and children is capable of a level of cynicism that people like you and I cannot even comprehend.

One thing that these kind of attacks achieve is utter demoralisation of the intended target - it says to them that nowhere is safe, no international laws will prevent such attacks, and no-one is coming to help them... they're utterly crushed. Of course, it involves killing innocent people in a horrific way and massive international condemnation (e.g. speeches, finger-wagging) - but in terms of realities on the battlefield, it's a win - plain and simple.

 

[VolkswagenX]

How can this be a win? Assad was winning and had no reason to use chemical weapons unless he wanted to shoot himself in the foot. It makes no sense.

 

[Rage Racer]

So the Russian journalists who arrived at the scene report the preliminary results of the missile strike. The runway isn't seriously damaged, some taxing roads are hit, 9 Syrian aircrafts are destroyed (not all aviation that was based there), fuel and ammo depots (where they thought chemicals are stored, but no one seem to be wearing any chemical protection), 4 people are killed (the journalist said they were civilians who were close). Is that what Donald spent 59 x $1.5 million for?

The journalists also note that some Tomahawks had cluster warheads and some charges remain unexploded.

First footage after the strike:


@ExigeEvan
I know the stories about terrible barrel bombs are popular on the Western media, but it's not everything the Syrian Air Force has to offer. If we're talking about helicopters, they have Mi-25's that can use guns and small-caliber rockets with decent precision. If we're talking about fast movers, light bombers like Su-22 aren't meant for carpet bombings. Their limit of payload requires to be somewhat precise. They also received some modern units recently (at least two Su-24M2's).

Regarding the investigation, do you seriously think it depends on Assad whether it can be delayed? It's up to the rebels to let the inspectors in.

Edit. Four killed were Syrian soldiers. Six are wounded, 2 are missing. The Russian MoD says only 23 missiles have reached the target.

 

[Touring Mars]

How can this be a win? Assad was winning and had no reason to use chemical weapons unless he wanted to shoot himself in the foot. It makes no sense.

You speak like the war is over already - it obviously isn't. The war is still very much on and the rebels are still fighting, ergo there exists a reason for the Assad regime to defeat them.

-

edit: Russia responds to US air strikes by saying they 'will not escalate military action'... this is perhaps the clearest sign yet that they know full well that Assad is using chemical weapons and that his bluff has been called.

 

[ExigeEvan]

The journalists also note that some Tomahawks had cluster warheads and some charges remain unexploded.

Interested to hear more on this. The Tomahawk is generally considered to be a reliable weapon, and I'd also be surprised if explosive sub munitions were being used. KE sub munitions wouldn't surprise me though.

@ExigeEvan
I know the stories about terrible barrel bombs are popular on the Western media, but it's not everything the Syrian Air Force has to offer. If we're talking about helicopters, they have Mi-25's that can use guns and small-caliber rockets with decent precision. If we're talking about fast movers, light bombers like Su-22 aren't meant for carpet bombings. Their limit of payload requires to be somewhat precise. They also received some modern units recently (at least two Su-24M2's).

Except helicopters need to be at relatively low altitude and negative alpha to fire machine gun and rockets in an urban area. They're also incredibly vulnerable at this point to MANPAD. SU22 and SU24 are effective when provided with appropriate weapons and training. Even with Russian support I'd question the Syria AAF ability to use them effectively.

 

[Dotini]

Link to Nikki Haley waving bloody shirt at UN (actually photos of victims)

http://www.conservativenews.com/article/2123/nikki-haley-slams-russia-and-iran-during

These images held up in front of the world at the UN seem to fully and completely justify US actions in Syria. There is apparently no need to to consider US constitutional or congressional laws or international laws or treaties when you have the higher justification from God, the Trump card. Even better, no one can do anything about it, because we are the highest power on Earth. Hypothesis: Might makes right on Earth, given divine approval from heaven.

 

[Rage Racer]

You speak like the war is over already - it obviously isn't. The war is still very much on and the rebels are still fighting, ergo there exists a reason for the Assad regime to defeat them.

Why to do it with chemicals?
UN had said that Assad gave up ALL chemical weapons under his control. But when the rebels use chemicals, no one even talks about investigation, except for Russia. And when they manage to make the world suspect Assad, they just get a jackpot.

edit: Russia responds to US air strikes by saying they 'will not escalate military action'... this is perhaps the clearest sign yet that they know full well that Assad is using chemical weapons and that his bluff has been called.

I don't see any connection between these two statements, but it may confirm what I read recently.

Some Russian bloggers assume that it could have been a deal between Trump and Putin. Like @Dotini said, Trump would like to be a good guy for the Republicans, get more support from the Congress and avoid accusations of pro-Putin policy, so he did what looked like a serious move against dictator Assad right after alleged chemical attack. 59 missiles... but so little damage. Russia was warned before the strike and probably warned Syria too. Most airworthy planes and personnel were evacuated, the destroyed planes were outdated MiGs plus one ancient An-2 biplane that is 20 times cheaper than the missile it was destroyed by. Some ammunition remained untouched, the runway can still work. This didn't affect the capabilities of SAA much. It was rather informational noise than real damage.

 

[Touring Mars]

@Dotini Graphic images cannot be posted on the forums - you can link to the image(s) in question but only as a URL with a clear warning or within spoiler tags also with sufficient warning. The AUP itself isn't explicit about this, but the more recent forum FAQ's state that graphic content is considered as 'obscene' content which the AUP prohibits.

But when the rebels use chemicals, no one even talks about investigation, except for Russia.

There is clearly some debate about who is responsible for a chemical attack when the majority (if not all) the victims are non-combatants, and evidence/investigation is required to be able to say with any degree of credibility who is behind a particular attack; hence saying 'when the rebels use chemicals no one even talks about investigation' is pre-supposing the origin of the attack... but based on what?

 

[ryzno]

At least three people were killed in Sweden on Friday when a truck plowed through a crowd of pedestrians in a suspected terror attack in Stockholm, according to reports.
http://nypost.com/2017/04/07/truck-crashes-into-store-in-stockholm/

 

[Dotini]

evidence/investigation is required to be able to say with any degree of credibility who is behind a particular attack

Any investigation is almost certainly now ruled out in re this week's attack. That quaint idea has been obviated by events on the ground.
http://news.antiwar.com/2017/04/06/un-seeks-compromise-on-investigation-into-syria-gas-attack/

 

[unit-one]

I made some comparison pics from the UAV video.

They showed a stack of old jets multiple times. But those jets are standing there at least since 2003.

-added- Black pile at the entrance is a pile of universal containers that could be empty, or contain cluster bombs or chem-weapons.

EDIT:

"Conflict Intelligence Team" on Facebook is saying that the containers seen on the photos of the bombed airfield look similar to the Soviet chemical weapon containers.

Although they could be just an universal transporting containers for various stuff.

 

[Rage Racer]

"Conflict Intelligence Team" on Facebook is saying that the containers seen on the photos of the bombed airfield look similar to the Soviet chemical weapon containers.

Although they could be just an universal transporting containers for various stuff.

They're universal containers - BKF. They can be loaded with various types of charges - high-explosive, fragmentation, thermobaric... and chemical, too.

And from what I've read, the type of ammunition stored inside these containers is designated by the marking on them, for exapmle white "Р-55" on your second pic is used for soman (not sarin BTW), "АО-2.5РТ" is for fragmentation bombs, "ПФМ-1С" is for airdropped anti-infantry landmines. On the pic from Shayrat air base, the markings aren't visible.

I think those containers are empty. Just look how they're stored. They're exposed to sunlight and corrosion. If chemicals were stored there, they could leak easily after the Tomahawk strike.

Also, another way how they can be used:

More info (in Russian):
http://a-nalgin.livejournal.com/1341394.html

 

[unit-one]

They're universal containers - BKF. They can be loaded with various types of charges - high-explosive, fragmentation, thermobaric... and chemical, too.

And from what I've read, the type of ammunition stored inside these containers is designated by the marking on them, for exapmle white "Р-55" on your second pic is used for soman (not sarin BTW), "АО-2.5РТ" is for fragmentation bombs, "ПФМ-1С" is for airdropped anti-infantry landmines. On the pic from Shayrat air base, the markings aren't visible.

I think those containers are empty. Just look how they're stored. They're exposed to sunlight and corrosion. If chemicals were stored there, they could leak easily after the Tomahawk strike.

Also, another way how they can be used:

More info (in Russian):
http://a-nalgin.livejournal.com/1341394.html

Why would you store a pile of containers in front of a hangar?
(maybe that's normal, but it looks strange to me)

And looking at the other photos, looks like that place was messy with all the missile pods and bombs lying around. :/

Containers should be investigated, IMO.

 

[Rage Racer]

Why would you store a pile of containers in front of a hangar?
(maybe that's normal, but it looks strange to me)

No idea TBH. Perhaps this use it as a storage.
But what I exactly wouldn't do is store chemical weapons like this, especially if I try to pretend I don't use them.

Containers should be investigated, IMO.

Russian journalist Alexander Pushin (alex_pushin on Instagram) posted a selfie close to the containers. The marking is readable. It's "AO-2.5РТ" that is used for fragmentation bomblets.

(For non-Russian speakers: Single-use block with 2.5 kg caliber bomblets BKF AO-2.5RT).

 

[unit-one]

No idea TBH. Perhaps this use it as a storage.
But what I exactly wouldn't do is store chemical weapons like this, especially if I try to pretend I don't use them.


Russian journalist Alexander Pushin (alex_pushin on Instagram) posted a selfie close to the containers. The marking is readable. It's "AO-2.5РТ" that is used for fragmentation bomblets.

(For non-Russian speakers: Single-use block with 2.5 kg caliber bomblets BKF AO-2.5RT).

Yeah, just saw the photo and a video from another guy. Both are in front of the same container with black markings.
Will be even better, if they show the containers with white markings, because those are the most similar to the chem-weapon containers.

АО-2.5РТ-ТГ-40
This one contains Cluster bombs. Looks like it's the same container they are taking pictures with.

 

[mister dog]

*Context* An interesting debate on the move of Trump to bomb Assad. Paul has been opposed to it but Bill M. comes up with some pretty good arguments on why he might have done it mainly being that DT regains international support and kills of all the Russia rumors:



ps. Alex Jones calls in at 18 minutes and blabbers a bit .

 

[mustafur]

This will be even stupider then Iraq and Afghanistan, the moment they take out Assad is the moment they will realise they are working with Al Queda.

 

[A2K78]

America is no longer in the position of threatening other countries, that all this talk by Haley is just nothing but empty threats to look tough.

 

[Dennisch]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States has concluded Russia knew in advance of Syria's chemical weapons attack last week, a senior U.S. official said Monday.

The official said a drone operated by Russians was flying over a hospital as victims of the attack were rushing to get treatment. Hours after the drone left, a Russian-made fighter jet bombed the hospital in what American officials believe was an attempt to cover up the usage of chemical weapons.

The official said the presence of the surveillance drone over the hospital couldn't have been a coincidence, and that Russia must have known the chemical weapons attack was coming and that victims were seeking treatment.

The official, who wasn't authorized to speak publicly on intelligence matters and demanded anonymity, didn't give precise timing for when the drone was above the northern Syrian town of Khan Sheikhtoun, where more than 80 people were killed. He also didn't provide all the details for the military and intelligence information that form the basis of what he said the Pentagon has now concluded.

The allegation is grave, even by the standards of the currently dismal U.S.-Russian relations.

Although Russia has steadfastly supported Syrian President Bashar Assad's government, and they've coordinated military attacks together, Washington has never previously accused Moscow of complicity in any attack that involved the gassing of innocent civilians, including children. The former Cold War foes even worked together in 2013 to remove and destroy more than 1,300 tons of Syrian chemical weapons and agents.

Until Monday, U.S. officials had said they weren't sure whether Russia or Syria operated the drone. The official said the U.S. is now convinced Russia controlled the drone. The official said it still isn't clear who was flying the jet that bombed the hospital, because the Syrians also fly Russian-made aircraft.

U.S. officials previously have said Russians routinely work with Syrians at the Shayrat air base where the attack is supposed to have originated. U.S. officials say the chemical weapons were stored there.

Those elements, the senior official said, add to the conclusion that Russia was complicit in the attack.

Last Thursday 59 Tomahawk missiles were fired on the government-controlled base in the United States' first direct military action against Assad's forces.
The U.S. has been focusing its military action in Syria on defeating the Islamic State group.

On Monday, Col. John J. Thomas, a U.S. military spokesman, said the U.S. has taken extra defensive precautions in Syria in case of possible retaliation against American forces for the cruise missile attack.

Thomas told reporters at the Pentagon that the increased emphasis on defensive measures to protect U.S. troops on the ground in Syria led to a slight and temporary decline in offensive U.S. airstrikes against IS in Syria.

There has been no Syrian retaliation so far for the cruise missile attack, which destroyed or rendered inoperable more than 20 Syria air force planes, he said.

Thomas said the U.S. intends to return to full offensive air operations against IS as soon as possible.


I smell something, and a lot of it.

 

[unit-one]

Here's a photo by Evgeny Poddubnyy of the container with the white markings. Looks like it contains the same bombs as the ones with the black markings. (AO-2.5)
I have no more questions, but I don't understand what's up with his troll comments towards "internet experts" that asked for photos of the containers. No one claimed that the containers are 100% chem-weapon loaded, (at least I haven't seen such claims) they just wanted to get things clear. :/

 

[Rage Racer]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States has concluded Russia knew in advance of Syria's chemical weapons attack last week, a senior U.S. official said Monday.

The official said a drone operated by Russians was flying over a hospital as victims of the attack were rushing to get treatment. Hours after the drone left, a Russian-made fighter jet bombed the hospital in what American officials believe was an attempt to cover up the usage of chemical weapons.

The official said the presence of the surveillance drone over the hospital couldn't have been a coincidence, and that Russia must have known the chemical weapons attack was coming and that victims were seeking treatment.

The official, who wasn't authorized to speak publicly on intelligence matters and demanded anonymity, didn't give precise timing for when the drone was above the northern Syrian town of Khan Sheikhtoun, where more than 80 people were killed. He also didn't provide all the details for the military and intelligence information that form the basis of what he said the Pentagon has now concluded.

The allegation is grave, even by the standards of the currently dismal U.S.-Russian relations.

Although Russia has steadfastly supported Syrian President Bashar Assad's government, and they've coordinated military attacks together, Washington has never previously accused Moscow of complicity in any attack that involved the gassing of innocent civilians, including children. The former Cold War foes even worked together in 2013 to remove and destroy more than 1,300 tons of Syrian chemical weapons and agents.

Until Monday, U.S. officials had said they weren't sure whether Russia or Syria operated the drone. The official said the U.S. is now convinced Russia controlled the drone. The official said it still isn't clear who was flying the jet that bombed the hospital, because the Syrians also fly Russian-made aircraft.

U.S. officials previously have said Russians routinely work with Syrians at the Shayrat air base where the attack is supposed to have originated. U.S. officials say the chemical weapons were stored there.

Those elements, the senior official said, add to the conclusion that Russia was complicit in the attack.

Last Thursday 59 Tomahawk missiles were fired on the government-controlled base in the United States' first direct military action against Assad's forces.
The U.S. has been focusing its military action in Syria on defeating the Islamic State group.

On Monday, Col. John J. Thomas, a U.S. military spokesman, said the U.S. has taken extra defensive precautions in Syria in case of possible retaliation against American forces for the cruise missile attack.

Thomas told reporters at the Pentagon that the increased emphasis on defensive measures to protect U.S. troops on the ground in Syria led to a slight and temporary decline in offensive U.S. airstrikes against IS in Syria.

There has been no Syrian retaliation so far for the cruise missile attack, which destroyed or rendered inoperable more than 20 Syria air force planes, he said.

Thomas said the U.S. intends to return to full offensive air operations against IS as soon as possible.


I smell something, and a lot of it.

Jeez, now this? They saw a drone and made a conclusion like this.
...The thread is called "The war on ISIS" but lately it's all about the "ISIS fighters" in a :censored:storm on each other. While the islamists are on the roll of terror attacks all over the world. Somebody, please give me another planet. The politicians on this one are just too stupid.

P.S. There's some criticism on the "White Helmets" organization which makes people question if the alleged chemical attack in Idlib province ever happened. On the scene, these guys act like they are immune to all poisons. No chemical protection while people around are choking. And the one doing mouth-to-mouth respiration to a victim must be having metal lungs. Otherwise he could get himself poisoned.

There's a report of "Swedish Doctors for Human Rights" accusing the "White Helmets" of completely unprofessional, counterproductive actions and staging videos.

Spoiler: disturbing content warning

Article:
http://theindicter.com/swedish-doct...ons-attack-to-justify-a-no-fly-zone-in-syria/

Video (it's an older case, but still recorded by the "White Helmets"):

Also, these pics are viral on the social media:

Spoiler: graphic images

The area of the recent alleged chemical attack is controlled by the rebels of a Syrian unit of Al Qaeda, and White Helmets are often accused of ties with them. I doubt they would let an independent investigation team there. (But who needs it anyway?)

Here's a photo by Evgeny Poddubnyy of the container with the white markings. Looks like it contains the same bombs as the ones with the black markings. (AO-2.5)
I have no more questions, but I don't understand what's up with his troll comments towards "internet experts" that asked for photos of the containers. No one claimed that the containers are 100% chem-weapon loaded, (at least I haven't seen such claims) they just wanted to get things clear. :/

I like the "DO NOT DROP" writing on the containers and the way they are stored.

 

[Dotini]

Rumors:
1) US troops are massing in Iraq preparatory to a ground invasion against the Assad regime as ISIS collapses.

2) Secretary of State Hillary Clinton approved the transfer of Sarin to "moderate" Syrian rebels.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Rumors:
1) US troops are massing in Iraq preparatory to a ground invasion against the Assad regime as ISIS collapses.

2) Secretary of State Hillary Clinton approved the transfer of Sarin to "moderate" Syrian rebels.

Rumour sources?

 

[Dotini]

Rumour sources?

Yes, but only breaking tremors and tidbits from the internet. If evidence more substantial turns up, suitable for skeptics to pounce upon, I will post it. Right now, these don't amount even to a maybe. Strictly rumor. Please feel free to ignore.

 

[Dotini]

Putin says US is preparing to bomb Damascus after more fake gas attacks.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...ys-preparing-bomb-10201886?service=responsive

 

[TenEightyOne]

Beslan happened they way it happened because the terrorists started to kill their hostages by setting off 2 bombs. The Russians couldn't do anything else than attack full force and hope for the best.

The ECHR finds "serious failings" in Russia's handling of Beslan all the way from the information they received that it was going to happen to their handling of the closure. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39586814.

I still wonder if the SAS or GSG9 would have taken such an approach... and I think they wouldn't.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Assad insists that he had nothing to do with the chemical attack, even going so far as to accuse the United States of working with al'Qaeda to fabricate the entire attack:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...lib-chemical-attack-was-a-fabrication/8444470

 

[Obelisk]

Is anyone going to mention the M.O.A.B.?

Because Trump dropped one.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Trump dropped one.

That's not how dropping one works