- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
The Xbox One Thread - One X & One SXBOne
- Thread starter Robin
- 5,072 comments
- 274,627 views
CAMAROBOY69
Premium
- 18,567
- Michigan
- CAMAROBOY69
Exactly what I am thinking. Especially since EA already announced they are dropping the online pass. So I have a feeling Sony will be doing the exact same thing as MS and will charge for playing the used games on the PS4. They just didn't want to mention it at the Sony announcement.
I am sure this will all be wrapped up after E3. Game rentals are a very delicate subject and will make or break most gamers right now. I rent most of my games but I am still glad we can play used games, however there will be a high price from the looks of it.
- 6,356
- Michigan
- DaveTheStalker
Microsoft honestly expects you to pay am additional fee so family members with their own accounts on the same X1 can play that game? Am I reading that right? And that's ok with Xbox people? Ugh
- 15,994
- United Kingdom
- haitch40
- Xbox?
http://www.vg247.com/2013/05/21/xbo...n-us-only-at-launch-requires-separate-device/
Tv service only in America to start.
Tv service only in America to start.
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
That's confirmed? Well I'm out.
CAMAROBOY69
Premium
- 18,567
- Michigan
- CAMAROBOY69
As we said a few posts above, whats keeping Sony from doing the same thing? EA is no longer going to have the online pass so something is going on for sure. Whatever is going on, is most likely on both consoles. Sony just didn't say anything about it yet. Its very unlikely that 1 console will let you play used games, and the other wont.
I just hope they drop the "One" after the Xbox. Xbox One is the worst console name in history. Worst than the Wii.
- 893
- Mill Creek, WA
- HighSeasHoMastr
- HighSeasHoMastr
Agreed. Also, I really don't understand the gigantic backlash against DRM on console. PC largely hasn't allowed used games for easily a decade since the invention of the CD Key, and with Steam and such, DRM is really, really common now on PC.
Why is it such an anathema on console?
Why does literally anyone care about the name? What difference at all does it make? They could call it the Xbox One+ Super Awesome-o >9000 Whirrlygig Extreme for all that it matters to functionality...
- 40,895
The difference is that Sony has already called the practice "anti-consumer," and haven't removed the PSN pass system for their games either. Sure, there's a possibility that the could weasel their way around that statement, but I doubt they would be able to get away with it without an even bigger backlash.
Plus, "the system that doesn't require a used game fee to play" would be a pretty big selling point.
Plus, "the system that doesn't require a used game fee to play" would be a pretty big selling point.
Are you seriously asking why changing the terms of game ownership is being met with harsh resistance?
Or maybe is like the online access for both consoles you know, like how Xbox charge users for getting online while PS3 don't(I know about PS+, but PS doesn't restrict online access to premium account, like how Xbox does), nothing is stopping Sony from doing the same but it doesn't necessarily mean they pulling the same crap.
Here I'm hoping not, but by the outlook of things I might just stick for PC for a year or two, and see what titles came up for them, see if it's worth the investment.
- 893
- Mill Creek, WA
- HighSeasHoMastr
- HighSeasHoMastr
- 734
- Manchester
- stiggygonzalez
Wow is that so!
Hmmm I don't like the sound of that,subscription this subscription that ugh no no no.
Xbox 1 what a strange name,not the actual 1 thing just why use it now?PS1,PS2,etc makes sense but xbox 1!
It's ugly too,not that I'm too bothered about that as long as its functional.
FM5 trailer was very meh it could have been any game bar GT really I think,,NFS,PGR etc nothing special at least.
- 5,051
- Labounti
I agree with you. I support the industry, I dont buy every game out there but I do only wait for sales. You can save money if you have patients. A game can release in May but I'll wait till November to get in on Sale like I do every year. Max Payne 3 NEW for $25 With Forza Horizon NEW for $15!
- 87,642
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
It isn't.
They saw the cents when the consumer bought the game.
Name me another industry where the original creator gets a sell-on fee for every private consumer-consumer transaction. Or will you be paying your car's manufacturer a stipend when you sell it on, so the developers aren't ripped off by someone else's right to drive their car "for free"?
So it's okay for you to pay $30 for a used game, $15 for an online pass, $15 for a used game pass so you can play it (not to mention the cost of having an online account, and the publisher gets the $60 for selling the game new anyway).
That's the kind of attitude that allow published to get away with the DRM, ********.
- 12,902
- Cambridge
- Moglet85
- Moglet
PC games are generally cheaper to buy. I wouldn't feel the need to buy many pre-owned PC games (when I could, before I used Steam) because I can afford them brand new more often than not.
- 40,895
PC gaming hasn't been the main driving force of the industry for over a decade now, and if it wasn't for Steam it would have been dead years ago.
PC gamers gave up on their right to resale when Steam became the primary content delivery system, and they happily traded that for the massively cheaper prices (which won't be happening for the One) and the huge increase in convenience (also not happening for the One, since most titles will most likely be physical only).
PC gamers haven't been playing and buying their games for a decade with a heavily entrenched used game and game rental market.
PC gamers have never had that used and/or rental games market because PC gaming piracy was so extremely rampant, so those used and rental game shops would never touch PC titles.
PC gaming isn't console gaming and never was; and it's a lot less so now than it was before Gamestop became enough of a presence in the industry that it regularly worked with game publishers; so you can't say "well, PC gaming is like this, so console gamers should be fine with it."
Because up until the One was announced, the rights of ownership had still rested with the person who bought the game.
You've also got that question backwards. Why is it a right for publishers to make money on secondhand sales in this industry and pretty much no other?
- 9,741
- Las Vegas UTC-8
- Wardez
- Wardez
Because you can't upload a torrent of a game, or burn it to a disc with your Xbox.
The only reason PCs had to have serial keys to play was because of the nature of the hardware you were playing it on. Remember "don't copy that floppy"?
Just because now we can install games to the HDD on the X1 doesn't give them an excuse to add in two-walls of DRM. First being the initial check DRM that you own the game, then the other one to track the ownership.
Steam didn't and they've done great!
If this was a Steam console, all the games I buy through them digitally I'd be able to play on any friend's console without paying anything again, simply by logging in with my account.
Why is this such a thing to ask for?
- 893
- Mill Creek, WA
- HighSeasHoMastr
- HighSeasHoMastr
Then where's all the people boycotting PCs, and where's the public outcry about that? (Before you respond, yes, I have seen it, but not in the scale I see it about consoles, and I've also seen that it's had very little effect on sales) People largely seem content to use Steam, which means that most/all of their games have DRM, but then the second anyone mentions DRM on console games, they're up in arms. It's an infuriating double-standard.
Fair enough. And let me just say, I don't necessarily agree with DRM or with devs getting used game proceeds, but since no one else seems willing, I'm just trying to show the other side.
The car industry is a poor parallel for the game industry; I know it was just an example, but still. It's not like its the EAs and the Activisions who are hurt by used games, it's smaller devs who maybe don't recoup their production costs because the game doesn't launch well.
Now, obviously, that's life, tough 🤬 right? And right, I agree, if a product fails, it fails. The problem (if you think there is one) is that such a must-succeed environment leads to what has been happening for awhile now: New IPs are dying out, and everything is just the same game with new skins.
Attaching a fee to used games that passes back to the dev can help to cut the loss that a less-popular game puts on a dev. If a game (like say, SO:TL) doesn't launch well, but gets good used sales once a few people play it & tell their friends to play it, then the dev gets some cash that might keep them alive to make another game.
I see where the issue comes, but at the same time, I see the upside for the industry. What I don't see is how this is a make-or-break issue for a console. Unless you buy 90% of your games used, this really doesn't affect you that much. And if you do buy 90% of your games used, you're not doing a lot to help your own cause, because the devs see you as someone freeloading on their work.
- 893
- Mill Creek, WA
- HighSeasHoMastr
- HighSeasHoMastr
So, basically, it comes down to "We like how it is now, and change is bad, mmkay?"
I kid, but I still think it's a lot of that and a little of people actually thinking it through. As far as the part I actually quoted, I understand that they're different environments, and that expectations are different. The thing I don't really understand is why it's such a big deal; the only real issue is that people want to pay less for games than the devs think they're worth, right? If that's the case, wait for sales, as was mentioned earlier in this thread.
I agree with most of what you said, but I want to single in on this.
That is entirely dependent on the EULA of the game. Just because you had/have the disk absolutely does not mean you have the ownership rights.
- 10,270
- Bonn
- GTAce
And not only that, you need a seperate device for that, which isn't included in the normal price, like linked to, but not mentioned here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8495462#post8495462
- 1,137
Buisness as usual. Nintendo and Sony spend their money to develop fantastic 1st party games, MS moneyhats timed exclusive DLCs.
Cars are much more expensive then video games. The number of videogames sold is much higher then car sales. The used car market is MUCH bigger then the used game market. In some countries, used cars are MUCH cheaper then new ones (I life in germany, the cheapest new C Class costs 32k , but u can find 1yo ones for 20-25k).
There is no reason why the used videogame market should be erased from the surface of this planez.
Cars are much more expensive then video games. The number of videogames sold is much higher then car sales. The used car market is MUCH bigger then the used game market. In some countries, used cars are MUCH cheaper then new ones (I life in germany, the cheapest new C Class costs 32k , but u can find 1yo ones for 20-25k).
There is no reason why the used videogame market should be erased from the surface of this planez.
- 893
- Mill Creek, WA
- HighSeasHoMastr
- HighSeasHoMastr
I haven't really been that enamored with any of Sony's exclusives since the PS2. And Nintendo doesn't make new IPs anymore
so it's kinda the same boat there.More the reason why it's a poor parallel is because most cars come from big companies, whereas that is less true for games. In cars, small companies make expensive cars to make up for market share loss, but that's not really feasible in games, because who's going to pay $200+ for a video game? Cars are just a poor comparison all around, but that's really neither here nor there.Cars are much more expensive then video games. The number of videogames sold is much higher then car sales. The used car market is MUCH bigger then the used game market. In some countries, used cars are MUCH cheaper then new ones (I life in germany, the cheapest new C Class costs 32k €, but u can find 1yo ones for 20-25k€.
Neither do I. And that's not what's being discussed.
- 87,642
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Which works for car manufacturers too... A poorly received model can kill a car company and destroy brand loyalty (customers stop coming back), whereas a timely one can save them (think Porsche and Boxster - then Cayenne) and cement brand loyalty (customers start coming back).
Actually, they see you as a future sale. If you enjoy their game, you might buy the next one new. And you know, they even see pirates like that. That's not to say piracy a good thing - they're taking another's efforts for no recompense at all (the used game buyer pays the shop, who pays the guy who traded it in, who can use it to buy more new games) - but there is a try-before-you-buy angle on it.
It is, ironically, the bigger devs who want this. EA have recently canned their online pass that did exactly the same, only for the online portion of a game, while Ubisoft retain theirs. Smaller ones don't bother with DRM because they just want the exposure and they don't want genuine gamers to have their experience hobbled by ludicrous hoop jumping. Same reason GTPEDIA's pdf has no DRM - we want you to enjoy it on whatever device you put it on and hope we can count on your support to keep the site going rather than nicking it.
No other industry I'm aware of levies a sell-on charge to secondary consumers. It's a ludicrous business practice, the expansion of which is not something to be lauded.
Incidentally, I buy 100% of my cars used. Whenever I take them into the garage, the dealers see it as an opportunity to sell me stuff like new cars. Though since I tend to wield my own spanner these days, that's quite rare
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