The Xbox One Thread - One X & One SXBOne

[TokoTurismo]

Hold on, let me put my scaredy-cat britches on.

I'm "sorry" but you're going to defend a corporation from a non-offensive public opinion when they want to PUT A SURVEILLANCE DEVICE IN YOUR HOME to better make money off you as a consumer? This seriously seems OK to you?

All I said was you shouldn't disrespect the moderators like you just did there. I guess you're looking to get ban. *shrugs*

 

[RACECAR]

I'm "sorry" but you're going to defend a corporation from a non-offensive public opinion when they want to PUT A SURVEILLANCE DEVICE IN YOUR HOME to better make money off you as a consumer? This seriously seems OK to you?

Hold up.

You are accusing a Super Moderator of Defending a Company in spite of their recent decisions simply based on him telling everyone to stop using certain abbreviations?

 

[F1 fan]

Wasn't online pass for online the componant/multiplayer?

This new way will be possible for any offline game

True. They could always lock some content for single player games. For example, difficulty levels. Look at the new metro for an example. The hardest difficulty was locked as dlc for pre orders. I'm sure you can buy it on psn/Xbox live. People could follow a similar route with online passes.

Because there was never any justification for why you had to pay that little extra in the first place, aside from publishers wanting a cut of secondhand sales.

Is that any different from what Microsoft are going to do? The point is that the online pass system was simpler. The publishers/developers still got a cut from second hand games.

 

[Tornado]

I'm not saying it is different or that it wasn't simpler. Just saying why it got so much ire when publishers started introducing them.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Hold up.

You are accusing a Super Moderator of Defending a Company in spite of their recent decisions simply based on him telling everyone to stop using certain abbreviations?

Oh I can't wait till Scaff gets back.

 

[dudeondacouch]

Hold up.

You are accusing a Super Moderator of Defending a Company in spite of their recent decisions simply based on him telling everyone to stop using certain abbreviations?

When those "certain abbreviations" are non-offensive, and only based on the (common) idea that the company values profits over consumer's rights, then yes, of course.

Leave out the M$ nonsense please. Its MS and Sony, not M$ and $ony...

Would it be more acceptable to use "Microsoft, whom I believe to be an evil money-grubbing corporation that wants to take away your privacy rights for a buck-fifty" as opposed to "M$"? Please explain. Does the USD symbol offend you or another group in some way of which I am not aware?

 

[RACECAR]

When those "certain abbreviations" are non-offensive, and only based on the (common) idea that the company values profits over consumer's rights, then yes, of course.

Right...

Would it be more acceptable to use "Microsoft, whom I believe to be an evil money-grubbing corporation that wants to take away your privacy rights for a buck-fifty" as opposed to "M$"? Please explain. Does the USD symbol offend you or another group in some way of which I am not aware?

First of all, chill out. No I'm not "offended" by it. However, I find your reaction to this abit unnecessary as all that was asked was not to use certain abbreviations. Sure some people in here found this abit bizarre (Admittingly, I'm abit stumped myself), but none of them as far as I know felt compelled to report a mod and accuse him of reacting in some certain way. Reporting him certainly won't make Microsoft suddenly think twice.

As for "what I prefer", don't really care. I myself personally don't feel compelled to use them so I just simply say Microsoft. People feel the same way about EA yet as far as I can tell, no abbreviations have been made for them. And if I don't like that "evil money-grubbing corporation that wants to take away your privacy rights for a buck-fifty", I prefer just to do something I always practice instead of giving it more attention and coming up with said abbreviations: vote with my wallet.



Now because I'd rather see this get back on-topic instead of going even further off, we can continue this via PM because I'm sure this is not what this thread is about.

 

[Wardez]

I did not then or will not report someone now because I don't really have a problem with it as I see it as a freedom of speech. Just pointing out what looked like a double standard. But since the line has been drawn here so to speak, by yourself and Scaff, I'm just making sure we can expect there to be consistency across the board from now on.

Well, this isn't Capitol Hill, this is a forum that you agreed to an AUP to use. An AUP put in place by the owner of the site who pays for the servers and support in order to keep it running for you to use for free. So they have full right to tell you what you can and can't say here.

But that still doesn't mean we have to agree to it. The alternative is you leave the site, as Michael said. But that also doesn't mean we can't stick to the rules of the site in debating the idea of not being allowed to use certain words. They're mods, not tyrants, we can talk.

So, what I'm saying is honestly, I think the whole "Micro$oft" thing is stupid, I never use it and roll my eyes when I see it. I only used it in my one post back there in order to make fun of how dumb I think it is, not to use it against MS or its fans. But I think you made a mistake in highlighting the useage of the term Scaff. Would've been a lot better to just leave it alone. Had you, it wouldn't have even become an issue. Cite the 'Streisand effect:'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

 

[Terronium-12]

But that still doesn't mean we have to agree to it. The alternative is you leave the site, as Michael said. But that also doesn't mean we can't stick to the rules of the site in debating the idea of not being allowed to use certain words. They're mods, not tyrants, we can talk.

Absolutely. However, it should be understood it's not done "just because", it was done for the exact same reason "fanboy" is now frowned upon: it does nothing to advance the conversation and often results in a ridiculous exchange of comments that would otherwise have never taken place had the phrase not been used in the first place.

M$, $ony and any and every variation thereof are no different in that regard.

So, what I'm saying is honestly, I think the whole "Micro$oft" thing is stupid, I never use it and roll my eyes when I see it. I only used it in my one post back there in order to make fun of how dumb I think it is, not to use it against MS or its fans. But I think you made a mistake in highlighting the useage of the term Scaff. Would've been a lot better to just leave it alone. Had you, it wouldn't have even become an issue. Cite the 'Streisand effect:'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

While you may very well have had no ill-intent I can assure you other people use the pejorative with that exact intention, and it's foolish.

 

[Wardez]

Right. Definitely understood. It's just that I haven't come across any posts where someone's been stirred up by the useage of things like "M$." I could totally be missing some obvious examples, so I'm interested in finding out if there are any. But without examples this comes out to be more of a mod's personal desire/vandetta to see the deragotary taken out rather than it being something for the greater good of the forum, you see.

So if it then ends up being a case of trying to nip this in the bud, then you guys should prepare to start disallowing other things like "Xbox Done" and such too. Or it could just all be let go, since as far as I see it, it doesn't seem to be doing a lot of damage right now.

 

[godzilla_GTR]

soooooo.....xbox one.......


I think the only reason I will get it is forza 5.
even then, only if they are going to release a descent wheel(or finaly give Logitech a licence)

 

[Musolini187]

@ jabofu, why are you defending ms? We are talking about a corrupt company that has secured a monopoly position for itself using illegal and dishonest methods.

People like you really amaze me. Why even bother tryin to help a company that doesn't need your help in the first place?

 

[thelvynau]

@ jabofu, why are you defending ms? We are talking about a corrupt company that has secured a monopoly position for itself using illegal and dishonest methods.

People like you really amaze me. Why even bother tryin to help a company that doesn't need your help in the first place?

Illegal? Have I missed something?

 

[Wardez]

Supposedly Germany said, from current interpritations of the device, that it can't be sold their because of privacy laws or standards. So, yeah, there's that at least.

I'll dig up a story for that later, at work right now, which is where I heard it.

 

[Ken]

Supposedly Germany said, from current interpritations of the device, that it can't be sold their because of privacy laws or standards. So, yeah, there's that at least.

I'll dig up a story for that later, at work right now, which is where I heard it.

I'm quite interested by this. Although I couldn't find one credible source stating this. Seems there was a discussion on the xbox forums, but the conversation was completely removed.

 

[jabofu]

@ jabofu, why are you defending ms? We are talking about a corrupt company that has secured a monopoly position for itself using illegal and dishonest methods.

People like you really amaze me. Why even bother tryin to help a company that doesn't need your help in the first place?

Because I like their products and they have as dirty hands as every big company on this planet. Plus they employ thousands of people around the globe and they always keep pushing new stuff out, even when they constantly get bad press or hatred about their products. Corrupt? Every company is corrupt. It is all about the money. Sony is no different to it.

Today nearly every device has a camera on it. Your smartphone, notebook or tablet. All those can be hacked or also be used by the company that produced it. If someone is that paranoid, he shouldnt buy the console. Easy as that.

I already preordered it with Forza 5 and I am excited about the One. I dont take these rumours as facts like many around the web and here do. It is just silly and everyone should wait till E3 and release.

The press is jumping on the Xbox One, because there is nothing else there at the moment. The USA didnt invade Syria yet, Champions League final is over and we are going into a silly season. It is wrong and absurd to insult Microsoft without knowing all the facts.

- there is no always on
- used games are 100% possible
- kinect is not there to spy on you

Supposedly Germany said, from current interpritations of the device, that it can't be sold their because of privacy laws or standards. So, yeah, there's that at least.

I'll dig up a story for that later, at work right now, which is where I heard it.

I'm quite interested by this. Although I couldn't find one credible source stating this. Seems there was a discussion on the xbox forums, but the conversation was completely removed.

Because it is not true. Here is the article. The federal commissioner for data protection in germany just criticised the new kinect, because it is always there watching you.

But he also said:

“Dass Microsoft jetzt mein Wohnzimmer ausspioniert, ist bloß eine verdrehte Horrorvision.”

Translation:

“That Microsoft will spy out my living room now, is just a skewed horrorvision.”

 

[Scaff]

Just jaw dropping, mind numbing. Can't believe this.

Could have done with this when stance with Delaystation, Polyphoney Digital or most recently (sub)standard cars is/was branded about. But no, not a whisper....

I'm wondering how you are aware of moderation desisions gioven that your not a member of staff?

The simple truth is that this has been acted upon before (as recently as yesterday), and its an approach I have consistent taken in a number of threads.

That you have not seen it or agree with it is a moot point.

Post reported, because this is the biggest crock on nonsense I've ever seen on ANY forum.

As is your option as a member, its worth noting that reported posts are copied to every member of staff and the site owner. The deafening silence that has followed it would seem to indicate they don't share your view.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

For what? Enforcing the AUP of the site or not sinking to childish insults?

When those "certain abbreviations" are non-offensive, and only based on the (common) idea that the company values profits over consumer's rights, then yes, of course.

I'm "sorry" but you're going to defend a corporation from a non-offensive public opinion when they want to PUT A SURVEILLANCE DEVICE IN YOUR HOME to better make money off you as a consumer? This seriously seems OK to you?

A slight failing in your logic here. I happen to disagree with MS's stance on the X1 and have stated a number of times in this thread and others that I have no intention of buying an X1 as long as they continue (despite owning an original Xbox and a 360). That I can express that view without the use of childish pejoratives doesn't invalidate my stated position, nor diminish it. Quite the opposite.

Would it be more acceptable to use "Microsoft, whom I believe to be an evil money-grubbing corporation that wants to take away your privacy rights for a buck-fifty" as opposed to "M$"? *Please explain. *Does the USD symbol offend you or another group in some way of which I am not aware?

One at least requires some thought and articulation, the other is a throw away derogatory comment that has caused flame-wars in other threads on the site, once again that you have not seen them or had to clean them up is a moot point. I would however add that if you are not able to actually express your point without resorting to insults then you open yourself up as an easy target for those who hold opposing views who can.

I will also point out the following from the AUP:

You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack any individual or any group.

You will, if asked by a representative of the forums, cease posting any content.

The matter is now closed, either you follow the AUP or you don't. That is your choice, but please be aware that should you take the later option then action will be taken. I'm not asking you to like or even agree to the AUP, what I am expecting you to do is follow it.

 

[Scaff]

I'm posting this as a separate post to keep moderation and contribution separate.

- there is no always on
- used games are 100% possible
- kinect is not there to spy on you

You have quite rightly brought others to take for making factual statements that are not facts, yet seem to be falling into the same trap yourself.

- there is no always on
It doesn't require a constant link to the internet, but it does need to check in every 24 hours or content may be locked out from you. For many those two are not that far removed.

- used games are 100% possible
Yet to omit to mention that they will only be possible under a scheme controlled by publishers not retailers (which is a total change from the current situation) and those parties have not yet been able to tell anyone exactly how it will work.

- kinect is not there to spy on you
This is not a fact, right now we don't know exactly how it will be used (we know how it could be used from MS's own patent applications), as such you are in no more of a position that state this as fact that those who hold a differing view.

 

[phillgt2002]

When I saw Scaff as the last post I knew there was going to be a smack-down.

I don't get the big fuss about some of the things we see and hear about the Xbox One. It looks like an alright console despite the fact that it is in some way less powerful than the PS4. All of this 'DRM' and 'always online' stuff has been looked at for years and while not giving it'self a good reputation, it was inevitable. We have DRM features in Steam and we have always online implemented in some games today.

Now the 24hr check is something I can't wrap my mind around.

 

[The Stig Farmer]

Am I alone here in having no idea what DRM is?

 

[phillgt2002]

Am I alone here in having no idea what DRM is?

DRM: Digital Rights Management.

Used to stop piracy by making people basically sign into a online interface to play games or, a code to authenticate.

That's why you see developers using online passes to basically lessen the amount of piraters by restricting games that rely on online. Battlefield 3 in example.

 

[DG_Silva]

DRM is Digital Rights Management, a set of techniques to make sure you have the rights to own a piece of software. People disagree with it because it can be seen as invasive and/or anti-piracy (which apparently is another of their rights).

 

[jabofu]

I'm posting this as a separate post to keep moderation and contribution separate.

You have quite rightly brought others to take for making factual statements that are not facts, yet seem to be falling into the same trap yourself.

- there is no always on
It doesn't require a constant link to the internet, but it does need to check in every 24 hours or content may be locked out from you. For many those two are not that far removed.

- used games are 100% possible
Yet to omit to mention that they will only be possible under a scheme controlled by publishers not retailers (which is a total change from the current situation) and those parties have not yet been able to tell anyone exactly how it will work.

- kinect is not there to spy on you
This is not a fact, right now we don't know exactly how it will be used (we know how it could be used from MS's own patent applications), as such you are in no more of a position that state this as fact that those who hold a differing view.

I know, but I am just tired of this negative vibe on the web about the One. Nobody talks about the great features about it. I find it quite nice to have all these extra features and I am really interested in the possibilities of the cloud.

I dont think that this 24h reconnect is necessary. Lets say you are on vacation or just away for the weekend. It is a silly idea and not possible. There will be probably a license check on the games you installed the way you dont need to use the disc anymore.

The head of gamestop and microsoft officials said there will be used games. And if something in the used game business would get worse, we would have already heard something from gamestop. I think there is nothing to worry about.

Also, the kinect camera can be turned off. The problem is that it is needed for many functions of the console and in games. But I think that everything should be managable with the controller too.

Kinect 2 is a really exciting thing and especially how it is implemented in the One.

 

[dr_slump]

Because it is not true. Here is the article. The federal commissioner for data protection in germany just criticised the new kinect, because it is always there watching you.

But he also said:

“Dass Microsoft jetzt mein Wohnzimmer ausspioniert, ist bloß eine verdrehte Horrorvision.”

Translation:

“That Microsoft will spy out my living room now, is just a skewed horrorvision.”

Yeah, but that was refering to this:

Trotz seiner Kritik hält Schaar Medienberichte, laut denen Microsoft die in Kinect integrierten Mikrofone zum Abhören der Nutzer missbrauchen könnte, für überzogen: “Dass Microsoft jetzt mein Wohnzimmer ausspioniert, ist bloß eine verdrehte Horrorvision.”

Despite his criticism sees Schaar media reports, according to which Microsoft could abuse the built-in Kinect microphone for listening to the users (even if the Xbox is turned off), as exaggerated: *Your quote*

But he also says the following:

“Die Xbox registriert ständig alle möglichen persönlichen Informationen über mich. Reaktionsgeschwindigkeiten, meine Lernfähigkeit oder emotionale Zustände”, so Schaar weiter. “Die werden dann auf einem externen Server verarbeitet und möglicherweise sogar an Dritte weitergegeben. Ob sie jemals gelöscht werden, kann der Betroffene nicht beeinflussen.”

"The Xbox continuously records all sorts of personal information about me. Reaction times, my ability to learn or emotional statuses, "said Schaar further. "They are then processed on an external server and possibly even passed on to third parties. Whether they will ever get deleted, the affected person cannot influence it."


I also don't quite understand why you're trying to defend that article, although he himself calls the Xbox One a monitoring device and says that Kinect with always running mic and camera disturbs him.

 

[The Stig Farmer]

DRM: Digital Rights Management.

Used to stop piracy by making people basically sign into a online interface to play games.

DRM is Digital Rights Management, a set of techniques to make sure you have the rights to own a piece of software. People disagree with it because it can be seen as invasive and/or anti-piracy (which apparently is another of their rights).

Cheers

 

[DG_Silva]

How do we know that it records things like emotional states and reaction times? MS has said the technology exists, but it's up to the developers if they wish to record it. It is more likely to be used in thriller or zombie-type games to wind the tension up and shock the player. Phil Spencer has also said that it's up to you which data is released, not MS.

Interviewer - It seems like the kind of data that could be theoretically collected and then used to influence [future developers] for a sequel or something.

Phil Spencer - I won't just focus on Kinect because I think about how far somebody gets in a game, where the pinch-points are, where do people fail. All those analytic capabilities are really important to us in designing future iterations of games and finding out what people love. That capability to the developer is really important as they try to get better at their craft and make better experience. But we obviously want to put the gamer in control of what data gets shared.

You definitely will have the software capability to turn off all the capabilities of Kinect. We want to put the gamer in control. And privacy. The box data information that collects is your data; it stays with you. You are in control of what you want to be collected. Game developers will obviously enable certain features and you'll be alerted when certain things are happening. Putting the gamer in control is really important.

With the new [Kinect], I had the demo earlier, and it seems like it's tracking an awful lot. While I'm playing a game, you're tracking my heart rate, my attention. Am I looking at the screen? Am I distracted? Am I smiling?

We should be careful in how we characterize those features. Those are features that are available to game developers. You think about emotion or where your head's looking; these are tools that a game designer can use in developing the game and creating more immersion. The amount of capabilities in Kinect has grown tremendously. But the data that it's collecting is really specific to the experience that you're in.

People really need to stop scare-mongering until we have the full picture...

 

[dr_slump]

I know, but I am just tired of this negative vibe on the web about the One. Nobody talks about the great features about it. I find it quite nice to have all these extra features and I am really interested in the possibilities of the cloud.

Such as? TV... no! Ehm... , what else did they show? Oh yeah, kinect jumpink jack and yelling support, great!

The head of gamestop and microsoft officials said there will be used games. And if something in the used game business would get worse, we would have already heard something from gamestop. I think there is nothing to worry about.

Sure will there be used games, but you'll always have to pay an additional fee.

Kinect 2 is a really exciting thing and especially how it is implemented in the One.

Give me a gaming relevant point.

 

[jamesst99]

every 24hrs? what if I go on vacation?

 

[Scaff]

I know, but I am just tired of this negative vibe on the web about the One. Nobody talks about the great features about it. I find it quite nice to have all these extra features and I am really interested in the possibilities of the cloud.

Plenty of people are talking about the positives, however for many (myself included) the negatives currently out-weigh them. What has not helped is Microsoft's seeming inability to clear these matters up, or even present a consistent message about them.

I dont think that this 24h reconnect is necessary. Lets say you are on vacation or just away for the weekend. It is a silly idea and not possible. There will be probably a license check on the games you installed the way you dont need to use the disc anymore.

The 24 hour check is necessary, MS have confirmed that, and it will be for all games as full installs are mandatory.

The head of gamestop and microsoft officials said there will be used games. And if something in the used game business would get worse, we would have already heard something from gamestop. I think there is nothing to worry about.

We know that their will be used games, what we don;t know is how they will exactly work and how much they will cost us. That control of the market is moving (for the first time) to the original publisher is a concern, Gamestop have also not said they are unconcerned, tehy have said they need more info.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...-aside-concerns-about-xbox-one-and-used-games

Also, the kinect camera can be turned off. The problem is that it is needed for many functions of the console and in games. But I think that everything should be managable with the controller too.

Kinect 2 is a really exciting thing and especially how it is implemented in the One.

Which means that you can't effectively turn it off, nor does that mitigate the possibility that your data could be processed on an outside server and used by 3rd parties (depending on the EULA you have to sign for Live).

 

[DG_Silva]

I don't think people are getting it somehow. You won't be able to use the console without it connecting to the internet once every 24 hours. If you go on holiday, you won't be there to use it, will you? When you get back, switch it on and connect it to the internet. How hard can it be?