Theory on the Audi R8 LMS Ultra Handling

I would recommend to not go lower than 75 ride height with the Phoenix ( especially if running soft spring and max aero ), any lower with minimum downforce, running at full power ( top speed ) - at over 200mph will cause the car to sway - unstable and spin out easily on a banked turn - this is with relatively stiff spring rate.
 
I'll have to try out the advice in this thread.

I also never knew that the real-life R8 LMS Ultra had traction control. Thanks for posting that video.
 
Here is a video I posted about taking a stock R8 LMS out on Bathurst. I wonder if the setups here are making the car more stable, but slower than the stock setup. You can see from the video it is only 5 laps, and with more laps, a faster time will come.



Also, it's confusing to see lap times thrown out about this thread with no context. I've seen anywhere from 2:02's to 2:05's with no knowledge on PP/Power/Oil/Tires used. It would be more helpful if everyone could agree on a set level for the car. Say 599pp racing hards which is the stock setup, or 615pp Racing Hards for example. Just to make it easier to compare.
599pp, in my opinion, would be best to compare both the stock car setup and other members setups to see if and how much of an improvement can be made.
 
I made 2:02:761 on RS tyres, changed oil 599pp. Plane Audi R8 LMS Ultra with my custom setup. Absolutely no aids. I drive with gamepad.

I believe taht better driver than me would be even faster in it. My thoughs on this car are that rear feels too stiff, even with softest setting for springs and dampers. Rear end of the car feels like it jumps over evry bump on track...
 
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Just had a look at your tune, it says RS tire and 2:05s possible.



You should be lapping in less than 2 minutes with RS tire.

Wow... your setup is not the best... i just tried it and rear comes around very easily. How you managed to do 2:04 on RH with it? :embarrassed:
 
@Ridox2JZGTE, "tamed" Ultra:
Height: 55 / 55
Springs: 15.12 / 20.86
DampComp: 4 / 4
DampExt: 6 / 5
ARB: 5 / 5
Camber: 3.0 / 1.0
TOE: -0.03 / +0.04 (only place where I have doubts PD "physics", maybe there is comma error on PD side?)
BrakeBias: 2 / 2 (or some what you want, using 2/2 on noABS online real grip)
LSD(I/A/B): 21 / 37 / 17
Aero; 380 / 805

Just for relaxed drive, it can go fast, works from RH to RS tires, easy cruiser is my thoughts about it ;)
Oil Changed, not extra power added, setup is working even on stage3 or turbo something, but made for default power.
 
My setup was refined , Bathurst 2:03:706 SH, 567hp (oil change), 1250kg, 597PP, incresed body stifeness in GT Auto (but i think it breaks stability of R8 so i have to buy new car without it). And it looks like i have 2 very nice setups for R8 Ultra. One soft suspension setup and one hard. The hard one suffers from oversteer under braking. How to reduce it? In some cases stiffening rear dampers or ARB can help, any advices on this one?

Also i just tested plane R8 Ultra and Phoenix one, Team Phoenix Audi R8 with same setup is MUCH more stable than one from Audi factory. Could be due to body stiffness increase installed in my plane R8 in GT Auto (i didn't know that i installed it...). I will buy new base model of R8 Ultra and test it again to see how it behaves without additional body stiffening and how it feels compared to Team Phoenix R8.

@OdeFinn

I will try your setup tomorrow. Whether is it suitable for driving on the edge, aside of relax driving?
 
Wow... your setup is not the best... i just tried it and rear comes around very easily. How you managed to do 2:04 on RH with it? :embarrassed:

It certainly helped others that used it - I had conversation with several other members when tuning it on early stage ( 1.02 ), and the feedback were positive, the last tune update improved the car, please read the tune notes ( there's a section about camber and spring rate options ) to suit variety of driving style.
My tune was made on stock aero, if you want rear more planted, increase rear aero, increase front camber until you find a good balance that's easy to throw around without being twitchy ( 1.2 max ), or try the soft spring rate set on bumpy track like Bathurst.

The car can't be driven with a heavy foot :D Do you use stick or wheel ? I always make sure the car almost straight / I won't lift off anymore before hammering the throttle and trail brake with some throttle to avoid lift off oversteer, and if it does become loose under braking, apply some throttle to regain rear traction.

@Ridox2JZGTE, "tamed" Ultra:
Height: 55 / 55
Springs: 15.12 / 20.86
DampComp: 4 / 4
DampExt: 6 / 5
ARB: 5 / 5
Camber: 3.0 / 1.0
TOE: -0.03 / +0.04 (only place where I have doubts PD "physics", maybe there is comma error on PD side?)
BrakeBias: 2 / 2 (or some what you want, using 2/2 on noABS online real grip)
LSD(I/A/B): 21 / 37 / 17
Aero; 380 / 805

Just for relaxed drive, it can go fast, works from RH to RS tires, easy cruiser is my thoughts about it ;)
Oil Changed, not extra power added, setup is working even on stage3 or turbo something, but made for default power.

You are using camber to reduce the wildness, more camber reduces overall grip on the tires, which is why I tuned with as minimum camber as possible achieve highest possible grip without being too twitchy ( 0.2 front and 0.0 rear ) - the front tires has too much grip bias, which is why low camber value on the front tires makes the steering very responsive/twitchy on low speed when the aero do not have full effect. On my last tune update, I reduce LSD accel to make it easier to power on exiting corner and reduce mid corner understeer.

Just made an update on my tune for 1.04 : Only adjust the front damper :)
 
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After my video, I have gone and tuned another audi from stock.

599pp, stock weight/power, no oil change Racing Hards

Current best is a 2:02.153

Did 2 laps with Racing Softs for comparison...2:00.1xx with 1:59's easily achievable. This is a great car, the more I drive it, the more I enjoy it.
 
After my video, I have gone and tuned another audi from stock.

599pp, stock weight/power, no oil change Racing Hards

Current best is a 2:02.153

Did 2 laps with Racing Softs for comparison...2:00.1xx with 1:59's easily achievable. This is a great car, the more I drive it, the more I enjoy it.


That's a very quick lap time, is this the Phoenix car ? Would love to see the replay, care to share the file ?
 
You are using camber to reduce the wildness, more camber reduces overall grip on the tires, which is why I tuned with as minimum camber as possible achieve highest possible grip without being too twitchy ( 0.2 front and 0.0 rear ) - the front tires has too much grip bias, which is why low camber value on the front tires makes the steering very responsive/twitchy on low speed when the aero do not have full effect. On my last tune update, I reduce LSD accel to make it easier to power on exiting corner and reduce mid corner understeer.

Whole tune idea was to leave as much default as I can, Cambers are "originals", reduced TOE removes pulling on under braking and helps when going over curbs (still not for curb scrapping).
By leaving close to default I achieved to maintain car personality, but cut out most bad temper of it.

Comparing to your tune; Your tune is quick tune, had some doubts about that "parachute" LSD, I don't like how it breaks traction on corner entry or in corner if reducing throttle, not for relaxed drive ;) definitely quick if pushing hard, but it reminds you when making steering corrections on corner, and you have to be ready with throttle to grab rear on control again. I was working on balance of car with my tune, all altered settings are "clued" together, now it is stable, small changes and you can make it understeer or oversteer small amounts if it suits on personal driving more than "stable", reducing 1 click on front wing and it starts to understeer, adding 1 click there and it oversteer, or on rear wing scaling 1 to 5 adding more you can change how much understeer you want, pretty much same on reducing wing on rear too to get oversteer.

Like I said, didn't want to change car personality, just hold it and make it for casual driving and still leaving possibility to go fast with it ;)

Go and test that and tell me how it really feels ;)
 
@Ridox2JZGTE

I can youtube it if you like. I recorded the lap but didn't save the replay as I know there is more to come from it. A bit messy across the top, definitely can make the 2:01's but just a matter of putting in the time.
 
Whole tune idea was to leave as much default as I can, Cambers are "originals", reduced TOE removes pulling on under braking and helps when going over curbs (still not for curb scrapping).
By leaving close to default I achieved to maintain car personality, but cut out most bad temper of it.

Comparing to your tune; Your tune is quick tune, had some doubts about that "parachute" LSD, I don't like how it breaks traction on corner entry or in corner if reducing throttle, not for relaxed drive ;) definitely quick if pushing hard, but it reminds you when making steering corrections on corner, and you have to be ready with throttle to grab rear on control again. I was working on balance of car with my tune, all altered settings are "clued" together, now it is stable, small changes and you can make it understeer or oversteer small amounts if it suits on personal driving more than "stable", reducing 1 click on front wing and it starts to understeer, adding 1 click there and it oversteer, or on rear wing scaling 1 to 5 adding more you can change how much understeer you want, pretty much same on reducing wing on rear too to get oversteer.

Like I said, didn't want to change car personality, just hold it and make it for casual driving and still leaving possibility to go fast with it ;)

Go and test that and tell me how it really feels ;)

If you try zero camber all around, you will immediately feel more grip all around and the front will have so much bite compared to the rear tire, that's why more front camber ( more grip reduction ) balances the car :) Try use 0 camber at the rear, without changing anything else, you will feel there's more grip at the rear and might have understeer as a result.

The stock camber value is useless as camber is currently broken, any other value than 0 reduces grip.

The LSD on my tune works well for me as I don't use aids, when I trail brake, the car stays stable, and I never lift off the throttle, always maintain a quarter at least most of the time.

I will try your tune, with stock aero and gearing, that's how I benchmark the car. And the ride height seems a bit too low, if you run full power and goes more than 320kmh, the car will be prone to sway ( unstable ) due to bottom out, on my tune notes I have a friend who tried full power LMS at SSRX :)


@Ridox2JZGTE

I can youtube it if you like. I recorded the lap but didn't save the replay as I know there is more to come from it. A bit messy across the top, definitely can make the 2:01's but just a matter of putting in the time.

That's fine, don't want to hassle you. I just wanted to know sector times :) I usually have 18s 1st sector ( long straight after 1st corner ), and last sector at conrod at 1:35s ( if I remember correctly ) - stock gearing and aero.
 
@Ridox2JZGTE , where i can find your latest setup for R8??
Your setup is nice overall if driving carefully, but still rear wheels like to spin, and it's bad at braking. Maybe with steering wheel it's better than with gamepad.

@OdeFinn , just tested your setup, pretty good straight line stability, but in high speed corners outside wheels tend to loss traction and car slides trough corners. Maybe too much ARB stiffness?

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I drive on the gamepad. Basically, what i'm trying to achieve by tuning suspension of this car, is ridding off this ridiculous oversteer in turns. I want to be able to turn the wheels and not to spin because of weight transfer. I want to hit the gas pedal to the floor when cornering to safely exit with maximum speed.
I spend around 5000 km in this car and i came to some decent results which suit my driving style. But still i have to remember that this is MR car and it requires subtle steering inputs.

I tested Stock LMS Ultra and Phoenix LMS Ultra with my best setup, Phoenix drives SO MUCH BETTER! It's much more stable than plain LMS Ultra.

I watched Liquid Moly Bathurst 12 Hours race yesterday, there was lot of Audis out there, i didn't see single one to behave extremely unstable like in GT6. In GT6 Audi R8 jumps over evry bump on the race track, in real life suspension of the car dampens any imperfections of the race track surface, and car is far from jumping and shaking all over the track like in GT6.

I think we should organize some online lobby just for this car, to test set up, compare and share our thoughts :D
 
@Ridox2JZGTE , where i can find your latest setup for R8??
I drive on the gamepad. Basically, what i'm trying to achieve by tuning suspension of this car, is ridding off this ridiculous oversteer in turns. I want to be able to turn the wheels and not to spin because of weight transfer. I want to hit the gas pedal to the floor when cornering to safely exit with maximum speed. Your setup is nice overall if driving carefully, but still rear wheels like to spin, and it's bad at braking. Maybe with steering wheel it's better than with gamepad.

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I drive on the gamepad. Basically, what i'm trying to achieve by tuning suspension of this car, is ridding off this ridiculous oversteer in turns. I want to be able to turn the wheels and not to spin because of weight transfer. I want to hit the gas pedal to the floor when cornering to safely exit with maximum speed.
I spend around 5000 km in this car and i came to some decent results which suit my driving style. But still i have to remember that this is MR car and it requires subtle steering inputs.

I watched Liquid Moly Bathurst 12 Hours race yesterday, there was lot of Audis out there, i didn't see single one to behave extremely unstable like in GT6. In GT6 Audi R8 jumps over evry bump on the race track, in real life suspension of the car dampens any imperfections of the race track surface, and car is far from jumping and shaking all over the track like in GT6.

I think we should organize some online lobby just for this car, to test set up, compare and share our thoughts :D


I am also on stick controller ( no ABS or any other aids ), my tune can be accessed from my sig, it's on page 3 1st post of my garage thread. Please read the tuning notes and the bolded part next to camber and toe, as well as optional spring rates for various track surfaces. My tune is setup for trail braking, so the car more likely won't like brake mashing :lol: and oversteer on exit is more due to the front grip overwhelm the rear as I run very low camber up front, this requires delicate steering input as a result ( tricky on analog stick ). Increase front camber to 1.2 max, this will make the car more stable and more tolerances to abrupt steering input. but reduces front grip

How much steering sensitivity are you running ? I am using +1 :D
 
Ridox2JZGTE
That's fine, don't want to hassle you. I just wanted to know sector times :) I usually have 18s 1st sector ( long straight after 1st corner ), and last sector at conrod at 1:35s ( if I remember correctly ) - stock gearing and aero.

Have no issue uploading or sending you a replay file. I just checked my recorder and turns out it wasn't on! So I'll go back and try and improve. From what I remember 18seconds is right for first sector, 1:33.xxx for last sector. Really found rhythm over the the top of the mountain, flat through corners I would brake for before.
 
Have no issue uploading or sending you a replay file. I just checked my recorder and turns out it wasn't on! So I'll go back and try and improve. From what I remember 18seconds is right for first sector, 1:33.xxx for last sector. Really found rhythm over the the top of the mountain, flat through corners I would brake for before.

1:33s at Conrod, I see where I am losing time :D My best lap was mid 2:04s Thanks, now I know where to improve, I usually messed up the last left turn before conrod - them tire stacks ( forest elbow ? ) I can almost flat out on top of the hill - reach close to 230kmh before the downhill esses.
 
I am also on stick controller ( no ABS or any other aids ), my tune can be accessed from my sig, it's on page 3 1st post of my garage thread. Please read the tuning notes and the bolded part next to camber and toe, as well as optional spring rates for various track surfaces. My tune is setup for trail braking, so the car more likely won't like brake mashing :lol: and oversteer on exit is more due to the front grip overwhelm the rear as I run very low camber up front, this requires delicate steering input as a result ( tricky on analog stick ). Increase front camber to 1.2 max, this will make the car more stable and more tolerances to abrupt steering input. but reduces front grip

How much steering sensitivity are you running ? I am using +1 :D

Steering sensitivity, i was driving on -2, but decided to check how it drives on 0, and it's better! I'm faster by 0,5s
 
1:33s at Conrod, I see where I am losing time :D My best lap was mid 2:04s Thanks, now I know where to improve, I usually messed up the last left turn before conrod - them tire stacks ( forest elbow ? ) I can almost flat out on top of the hill - reach close to 230kmh before the downhill esses.

Ok that's crazy fast. I'm hitting just 225kmph before those downhill esses. I have now just tweaked my tune a bit more, made it more unstable but have just hit a 2:01.2xx It's a fast lap, but not one I would like to drive in a race. I just have to tweak it back a little to give it a bit more stability with this extra turn in I've just found. Have recorded the replay on this one though. Last sector was a 1:32.9xx
 
Have not tried bathurst online but have raced the car online, and nothing different to what i would expect. I would expect to be able to reproduce the laps online without trouble.
 
Have you tried it online?

I ran it online a few weeks ago at Brands Hatch GP, tire wear normal, grip real, 1:26s if I remember correctly ( cold tires ), with my tune, 528HP, stock aero, gearing, RH tire. The car had orange body rigidity - deteriorated with over 1500km on the odo, I just refreshed the car a few days ago, cost 200k :grumpy: No wonder the car handled bad :lol: My best lap offline test drive at Brands Hatch GP low 1:22s with some mishap, 1:21s definitely possible :D
 
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If that is aimed at me..

599pp, stock weight, stock power, stock aero, Racing Hards.

Have changed suspension settings and gear ratios.

No aids incl no abs. Track grip set to real.

How come mine only hits 597PP @ 554bhp after oil change?

Have you got engine stage 3 and limited power?
 
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