Time Trial Discussion
- Thread starter seadog777
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- Sweden, Gothenburg
- Highlanderlast
OK time for now. Can lower it a bit more if I get lucky in all sectors. Time to study some 👽 replays and see if I need to shift Silivia in second or fourth or shift at very end or before in order to chase few more milliseconds.
Nice challenge. Enjoying it.
Nice challenge. Enjoying it.
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- 2,303
- United Kingdom
- half_sourly
Re assists, this car and combo give you a great opportunity to just switch them off (keep ABS on) and see how you go. It is an easy car to control and if you can do it here, you may get confidence to do it with other cars and elsewhere. Bottom line, if you want to get much faster, then at some point switching off all bar ABS will be required for most car/track combos.
Re driving, you did a good lap there. To help you hit apexes consistently, you need 3 things:
- Consistent braking point - write down the braking points from Mistah's video and focus on hitting them consistently
- Consistent turning in point - ditto (for example turn 1 I use the last GT7 board on the left)
- Consistent apex speed - Don't worry about the actual mph or km/h, it is a feel thing and where the car lands up. If you get your braking point and turning point consistent, then if you find you arrive too slowly at the apex, try trail braking rather than 100% braking, or if you struggle with trail braking, then brake a bit later. If you arrive too quickly and miss the apex, brake a bit earlier.
The next thing is using full track on exit. One way to practice this is to have a consistent acceleration point. You'll hear Mistah (and Kie and others) talking about 'when I see that open field after the corner, I accelerate'. Treat those exit markers in the same way as braking and turning points. If you put your foot down just as you face a tree/house/field/pole and you run wide, next time wait a bit longer. If you have road left, next time go earlier.
Hope that helps and good luck.
- 77
- Portugal
One thing that really helped was hitting the throttle even when I felt I should not. I am usually very cautious but the Silvia is very stable even at full throttle. Just be careful on the uphill corners, win the apex and be more gentle on the turn.
Are you people going for 3 or 4 gear in the long right after the bus stop?
GlockPants
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- 1,103
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- GlockPants
I wouldn't complain if the aliens sat the rest of the event out either. But if I'm honest, I didn't think the time I set on the first day would still be gold. It's a gnat's cock away from being silver now, only a few hundredths of buffer left.
I'm 100% sure I'll have to do more sessions before the WG TT ends, but it would be wild if it did hold. It usually takes me a lot of laps and many days to find that gold time.
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Just to follow on from Half's excellent advice. In advanced road driving or riding it's called vanishing/limit point and it's a way to gauge speed for entry and exit. If the road is converging on both sides and that is coming closer then you are going to fast. If it's moving away from you then you are going to slow (you can accelerate harder and smoother) if it is staying the same ish distance from you then your speed is matched for the turn.
The aim is to always keep that distance steady until it starts to move away from you. That is when you know you can smoothly and quickly exit a given corner.
Edit: a few images to explain.
Attachments
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Lomic
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- Lomic2
I'll give it a go but my fear is that it will make harder to get the points below correct if on top of them I remove assists.
Thanks for the input, you kind of summed up what I am trying to do (braking points, turning points, accelerating points, following @Mistah_MCA's lap guide).
For trail-braking I try to use it but I don't have a very fine feeling with the trigger so sometimes I will push to little to trail-brake, and sometimes I will brake more than needed. Not sure I would get more finesse with a pedal though.
- 797
- Germany
I use 4th gear. Swinging wide left and slowly starting to turn while lifting throttle negates the need for breaking before that corner. Basically: Position far left, lift, rotate, coast until apex and “gently“ floor it while staying in 4th all the way from entry to exit.
Edit: keeping the car stable while not using full steering input is the key to carry more speed through this corner for me.
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- 2,493
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- Espanjolicos
I like to stay in 4th but often i have to much speed out of the busstop and shortly throw it in 3th to get a bit of rotation and then quickly up to 4th again and throttle out.
I did some other cars this morning, didn't have much time but..
SLS AMG
Very surprised by it, rather quick, planted and rotates good when OFF throttle, first lap i was llready in the mid 55' so not a bad choice!!, sounds very good, and was failry stable at the busstop.
VIPER
I'm not realy a big fan of it, it is fast, good low end torque but i had some difficulties rotating it in the longer corners, it just doesn't realy rotate when lifting, may suit for a diferetn driving style, but not for me
SUPRA
Fast, agile, oversteer, rotates very easly but then oversteer is very close, playfull lap but realy fast, i think i can get near PB if i give it a good stint!
GENESIS GR4
Did more laps than with the other cars, mostly i do one or 2 laps but i hated this car the first lap and was off gold because of the understeer, then started pushing for a few laps, this car seems to have a small line between under and oversteer, but if you nail it it's rather quick!, feels heavy, but was surprised by the time.
On to the next ones
- 29,260
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
I've only tried the Corvette, Ferrari, F-Type and Silvia - and after convincing myself that the Silvia was the best, I ended up beating my Silvia times quite easily with the F-Type... I will try a few others though, as I reckon I'm still 0.2-0.3s off my 'optimal' time.
I've really enjoyed the TT at Watkins Glen though, and I'm increasingly hopeful for my first TT gold...
I've really enjoyed the TT at Watkins Glen though, and I'm increasingly hopeful for my first TT gold...
- 2,303
- United Kingdom
- half_sourly
Re fear - just give it a go. You'll notice on your video the only assist (other than ABS) that activates is whatever the triangle is (ASM?). Even though you have counter-steer (think that is the wheel/target looking thing) and TC on, the car never actually uses them. So already, without switching them off and maybe without knowing, you've only used 1 of your 3 assist. I suspect if you switch all 3 off, you'll feel zero difference to the car's behaviour.
Re trail braking - that's fine. Working at one thing at a time is often better, so forget trail braking for now. Just brake whatever way feels good to you, and go through the same process: hit BP, hit TP, assess how close you are to apex and adjust if required.
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- 1,052
- Italy
I'm nowhere near to be considered as good as the quality people that already gave you their insight, I feel your pain and I see in your comments the conserns I had (and still have, btw) for myself. For these reasons I'd like to comment a bit too...
They say that to be quick and consisten it's more important to go back on gas as soon as possible then to brake late. They are not just right, they are 100%RIGHT!!!
One of the errors I still do if to approach the apex with a too high speed. So I brake late, with very small margin for errors (and very poor recovery skills), hitting (or missing) the apex in front of the ghost, and see the ghost fliying away in front of me just after the apex. Then I go see my replay... apex speed 150kmh... and go see their replay... apex speed 135kmh... So I have to force myself to brake early to reach that "low" speed.
It takes couple of trials to get in the new rithm, my eyes spend time to look at the speedometer instead to look at the track. after 2-3 times I get the feeling of what it takes to reach that low speed, and can concentrate on the track to meet the apex. Now my mental error is: I'm used to know that I can open the gas at a specific moment determined by the chain of errors (late brake, too much speed) done before. Another couple of times to realize that I can now gently open well before. This process, for a single turn, may be worth half a second! Imagine doing this the whole lap. In current Watking Glenn TT the first turn and the last one are perfect examples.
Another comment about brake point. Mistah, TheKie25 and others posting tutorial identify them well, and this is very helpful in avoind us infinite trial&error, BUT
1) they are good but limited (kidding, kind of... 😜 )... they don't know how (bad) we can be... so take their braking point with a grain of salt. If they are too deep for you and cause issues in car handling, apex speed, etc... anticipate them a bit. The objective again is to exit as quick as possibile
2) notice what view is used during replays. Visual angles can be missleading! Watch Mistah youtube video, understand the proposed braking point, then get Mistah replay on the PS and watch it from the same ingame view you are using (cockpit for me). You may realize that when they say "brake at the 100mt" and you see in the youtube video the 100mt marker just in front of the car, when you look for the same marker from inside the car you see it still away from it. So you may be braking later than you think you are.
Lomic
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- Lomic2
I've given a go a few minutes ago (message written 2hours ago, was waiting for the video to be ready) and you are 100% right, barely noticed a difference (except when I drive like a monkey)
I've tried to coast until apex like many adviced, if braking point is good and duration of braking too, it doesn't compromise speed to much and allow to dial the acceleration when hitting the apex. Not easy to do but I might have understood something.
Lap times not that impressive... removing assists did not impact in terms of difficulty to drive the car, but neither in terms of performance gains.
Lap count : 40.
It is nice to get comments from non aliens too, thanks for chiming in 👍
I never look at the odometer, except when I cross the line at WC, which gives me an indication of how poorly I took the last turn.
I fully agree with you, I often approach turns with much lower speeds, so the braking point is to be adapted sometimes.
That's an interesting suggestion, I use bumper cam (the view where no part of the car is visible and you have the rear mirror), as I think it gives me the best perception of the track, but may be it changes the visual references given in lap guides.
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- 2,303
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- half_sourly
That new lap looks good. Don't worry about laptimes for now; you're investing time in learning.
If you look at turn 1, that is a good example of where you can now next lap brake slightly earlier or hold the brakes slightly longer (just be careful it doesn't stop you turning) because you went a bit wide at the apex. While somewhere like the heel of the boot (the righthander after the uphill bit a few corners from the end) you may adjust your acceleration point a bit because you had loads of room on the exit left - see comparison of your position and mine (difference cameras but you'll see the point).
Final point and then I'll stop, using the full track also means small things like the S going up the hill after turn 2, getting close to or even onto the kerbs matter, because you make the track shorter and you are less likely to scrub speed if you have a straighter line.
If you look at turn 1, that is a good example of where you can now next lap brake slightly earlier or hold the brakes slightly longer (just be careful it doesn't stop you turning) because you went a bit wide at the apex. While somewhere like the heel of the boot (the righthander after the uphill bit a few corners from the end) you may adjust your acceleration point a bit because you had loads of room on the exit left - see comparison of your position and mine (difference cameras but you'll see the point).
Final point and then I'll stop, using the full track also means small things like the S going up the hill after turn 2, getting close to or even onto the kerbs matter, because you make the track shorter and you are less likely to scrub speed if you have a straighter line.
- 1,223
- Sweden, Gothenburg
- Highlanderlast
@Lomic I remember it was Nurburgring TT challenge almost a year ago and I was learning and posted a video comparison of turn 1, from leader and my lap and we were checking how much more speed on corner exit he gets with TC0 comparing with my TC1, and I got advice from @half_sourly , who by the way has won gold in all TTs, to practice with TC0 which resulted in me turning off TC to 0 and practicing and practicing and practicing. I understand you want to get fastest possible time at this challenge and if possible to do it today or by the end of weekend. We all do, but sometimes you really need to drive 1000s of Km to reach there. I can share that I improved a lot by listening to advices from skilled people here on forum, but I can also share that I am still behind them in my lap times, so more practice is needed. You got very good advices, now repeat them 1000 times and gold is yours. good luck!
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@Lomic i have shared my replay if you want to use it as a ghost as it's a lot slower than alien times meaning you can stay closer to it. Just search lomic in the showcase.
Also here is a lap I did this morning (im working so only did 2) it is from both my cam (bumper) and the chase cam.
You can see how much of the track I use and some of my lines. It was a scruffy lap especially the last 2 turns but I was conscious of time.
Hope this might help and be a closer thing to use than the top times.
*I always try to find the slowest ghost I can rather than aliens like Mistah and Kie as they are just so much faster it's hard for me to learn from them beyond the rough braking markers etc
Also here is a lap I did this morning (im working so only did 2) it is from both my cam (bumper) and the chase cam.
You can see how much of the track I use and some of my lines. It was a scruffy lap especially the last 2 turns but I was conscious of time.
Hope this might help and be a closer thing to use than the top times.
*I always try to find the slowest ghost I can rather than aliens like Mistah and Kie as they are just so much faster it's hard for me to learn from them beyond the rough braking markers etc
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@Lomic
And don't be afraid of the busstop, try to have your brakekpoint at the same spot each time, you can keep a lot more speed on entry there, just don't be afraid and brake little later.
I'm fairly late on the brakes here but still make it, this image is exactly were i start to brake full force, we have almost 40 km/h difference on entry so also the exit speed is higher then.
Your lap doesn't look that bad but you are just to carefull, you can throttle way sooner then you think, i know ...sound easy
but loosen the aids is the first step, great job!
You will get it
( i posted my lap again below, maby it helps you with braking points or lines bumpercam )
And don't be afraid of the busstop, try to have your brakekpoint at the same spot each time, you can keep a lot more speed on entry there, just don't be afraid and brake little later.
I'm fairly late on the brakes here but still make it, this image is exactly were i start to brake full force, we have almost 40 km/h difference on entry so also the exit speed is higher then.
Your lap doesn't look that bad but you are just to carefull, you can throttle way sooner then you think, i know ...sound easy
but loosen the aids is the first step, great job!
You will get it
( i posted my lap again below, maby it helps you with braking points or lines bumpercam )
seadog777
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- seadog777
Yaaaay! My second silver, at last! @Half-Sourly data will probably show this was the easiest or second easiest to get gold / silver, but hey, think I'm safe for a million! Managed to get the second million on the Olympic yesterday too! Rolling in cash..... 🤣
- 1,720
- Australia
I think I must be the only person in the world who can’t come to grips with the Silvia. I’m over a second a lap slower in it than either the Jag or the McLaren. I have no idea how it’s sitting at the top of leaderboard. Don’t get me started on how stupidly unstable it is through the bus stop.
Whatever the magic ingredient is for making it fast, I don’t have it.
Edit: The Veyron on the other hand… Getting very close to the 53s after half a dozen laps.
Whatever the magic ingredient is for making it fast, I don’t have it.
Edit: The Veyron on the other hand… Getting very close to the 53s after half a dozen laps.
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- 1,794
- Norway
- IngRobNy
Nope me too, I'm using the Silvia all the time, but in this TT it's really useless to me.
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Lomic
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- Lomic2
@half_sourly : thanks you for taking the time to do screencaps and comments, very valuable input 👍
@newmedia_dev thanks for the ghost, I find GT7 search engine really sub-optimal if you want a ghost within a certain range of lap time. Easy to get top ranking ghosts but when you want something just a bit higher than your best...
@Barareklam I see your point but in this case, I don't feel any gain in performance with TC0, I will keep it off, but I was hoping to gain more than that. For the 1000s of km, it won't be possible for me, I don't have the time (or I prefer using it for other things), there is a small window of daily time where I jump in GT7 if possible and I rarely exceed the daily marathon driving distance, especially when the summer is here 😅it does not mean I won't try to make the best of it, but clearly not spending hours on end. Plus it is exhausting for me.
@half_sourly told me a few posts before that I was going to aggressively in the bus stop so I am a bit lost 😅
@newmedia_dev thanks for the ghost, I find GT7 search engine really sub-optimal if you want a ghost within a certain range of lap time. Easy to get top ranking ghosts but when you want something just a bit higher than your best...
@Barareklam I see your point but in this case, I don't feel any gain in performance with TC0, I will keep it off, but I was hoping to gain more than that. For the 1000s of km, it won't be possible for me, I don't have the time (or I prefer using it for other things), there is a small window of daily time where I jump in GT7 if possible and I rarely exceed the daily marathon driving distance, especially when the summer is here 😅it does not mean I won't try to make the best of it, but clearly not spending hours on end. Plus it is exhausting for me.
did not see that, much clearer with images !
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- 2,493
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Sorry, that is not my intention 🤣, forget what I said 🤣 @half_sourly is way faster than me 😊😉 ,just noticed the difference in speed, but before we all throw tips at you, maby stick with one first and try to have an advantage with his tips, the alien is always on topic my board, so he knows 😁
I'm positive that we can help you get faster!
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- cutback73
- cutback73
Blah blah Watkins Glen this Watkins Glen that. Some of us still trying to get somewhere on Tsukuba
Put the TC up to 3 due to the wet, and added the brake zones as a guide (but tended to brake later anyway). First few laps...
0.030!!!!! seconds outside Silver. FFS
Swore a lot, had a deep breath then swore some more...
Another deep breath, try again...
A HUGE 0.014 seconds inside
All aliens are banned for the next 36 hours!!!
And remember, you're only competing with yourself at your level.
Ignore all those posts with times that start with 1.4.....
Put the TC up to 3 due to the wet, and added the brake zones as a guide (but tended to brake later anyway). First few laps...
0.030!!!!! seconds outside Silver. FFS
Swore a lot, had a deep breath then swore some more...
Another deep breath, try again...
A HUGE 0.014 seconds inside
All aliens are banned for the next 36 hours!!!
Congrats! Looks like it should hold 🤞
And remember, you're only competing with yourself at your level.
Ignore all those posts with times that start with 1.4.....
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You don't need the TC up that high or on. This one is tricky because the visuals of the water mess with your head.Blah blah Watkins Glen this Watkins Glen that. Some of us still trying to get somewhere on Tsukuba
Put the TC up to 3 due to the wet, and added the brake zones as a guide (but tended to brake later anyway). First few laps...
View attachment 1266797
0.030!!!!! seconds outside Silver. FFS
Swore a lot, had a deep breath then swore some more...
Another deep breath, try again...
View attachment 1266798
A HUGE 0.014 seconds inside
All aliens are banned for the next 36 hours!!!
Congrats! Looks like it should hold 🤞
And remember, you're only competing with yourself at your level.
Ignore all those posts with times that start with 1.4.....
Drive it normally but brake a fraction earlier and wait a bit more for acceleration.
You can take the off racing lines as well and that keeps you out of the puddles.
I know you know all this but hand on heart this one I found easier than the 370Z one at maggorie.
Don't be afraid to let the car coast in to and out of the infield left hand weird corner. Every thing else is just being smooth on in puts.
- 139
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If you are going through pit lane. Keep going.
- 2,493
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- 550
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- Danger_Dan986
You got me amigo!! 😂😂😂 I was super pleased to get into the 1:53 club but it was such a small improvement I didn’t feel it was worth spamming y’all with it.
I had a much more productive session this evening; it went from agony to jubilation (the opposite of today in the 1st Ashes test!) as I was about to set a monster time (I reckon 1:53.6 from the splits/ghost) and went all out on the final corner and… clipped the wall on exit. The PAIN of watching the time fade away in those final few hundred metres!!
But, I did put in a properly decent lap a few minutes later.. YAY! Left a tenth of a second or so on the final corner just to guarantee a new PB but properly chuffed… I AM TOP OF MY FRIENDSHIP TABLE! I imagine a Finnish flag will pop up at number one shortly (or some guy on a Nokia 3310..) but for now imma milk it
Definitely more time to game, I really wanna nail this one and get the perfect lap. I find the combination of track/car/tyres absolutely perfect on this one! Enjoy it while you can..
<gloat mode enabled>
<gloat mode remaining enabled>
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