Time Trial Discussion

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I did another couple sessions when I really should have taken a couple days break - this TT is getting in my head. I'm in the 1:57:9xs with the Mclaren and Mazda RX-Vision. Same times, totally different driving styles.

There's something I'm fundamentally not understanding about this track.

The first sector is the bane of my existence - seriously, it's as if track gnomes tossed trace amounts of grease down around turns 3 and 4 to punish drivers who use 98% throttle instead of 93%.

The rest is late apexes, late apexes, late apexes: Is it time to throttle out now? No, and you turned in to early... Now you turned in too late...

The quintessential Nurb GP driving experience summarized:
1667615460814.png
 
rheinaoi
I did another couple sessions when I really should have taken a couple days break - this TT is getting in my head. I'm in the 1:57:9xs with the Mclaren and Mazda RX-Vision. Same times, totally different driving styles.

There's something I'm fundamentally not understanding about this track.

The first sector is the bane of my existence - seriously, it's as if track gnomes tossed trace amounts of grease down around turns 3 and 4 to punish drivers who use 98% throttle instead of 93%.

The rest is late apexes, late apexes, late apexes: Is it time to throttle out now? No, and you turned in to early... Now you turned in too late...

The quintessential Nurb GP driving experience summarized:
View attachment 1205951
Click to expand...
Without sounding like a complete tosser, i find these comments very interesting. This track has always come to me very naturally, the only corner that grieves me is the first right after sector 1, i am using AT and if i don't time it right the car does not change down and i understeer through lack of rotation.

I've run 4 cars under your 1.58 using the D-pad, X and box with AT transmission (Supra, Z4 and Mclaren a 57.6 and RSR a 57.0). So you don't need great subtlety here, basic "hit you brake marker and make the apex" works just fine for most corners.

Make sure you are always moving forward in turns 3 and 4, don't coast too long, i keep dabbing the gas, always inch forward. If you coast you will bleed time, slide the car a tough through throttle jabbing or if using a smoother input than me, quarter throttle.

The final chicane, are you throwing the car at the first left hander then hitting the gas as you hit the kerb on the right? get on that throttle very, very, very early.
 
Last edited:
NevilleNobody
Without sounding like a complete tosser, i find these comments very interesting. This track has always come to me very naturally, the only corner that grieves me is the first right after sector 1, i am using AT and if i don't time it right the car does not change down and i understeer through lack of rotation.

I've run 4 cars under your 1.58 using the D-pad, X and box with AT transmission (Supra, Z4 and Mclaren a 57.6 and RSR a 57.0). So you don't need great subtlety here, basic "hit you brake marker and make the apex" works just fine for most corners.

Make sure you are always moving forward in turns 3 and 4, don't coast too long, i keep dabbing the gas, always inch forward. If you coast you will bleed time, slide the car a tough through throttle jabbing or if using a smoother input than me, quarter throttle.

The final chicane, are you throwing the car at the first left hander then hitting the gas as you hit the kerb on the right? get on that throttle very, very, very early.
Click to expand...
No worries. On top of being consistently slower than the regulars in this thread, I've never, ever, been a fan of Nurb GP. This and Fuji are my least favorite tracks. I hate Fuji almost as much as I hate the Corvette C7 ZR-1 from the previous TT.

Funnily enough, I used to run with manual, D-pad steering with R2 throttle and Square for brake. A wrist injury I picked up using my wheel started to flare up again after prolonged driving sessions and I wore my D-pad down to mush - had to replace the silicone under the pad. I've been getting used to full analog steering, brake and throttle for the past several months. I'm back up to my personal pace, but I'm still iffy with trail braking.

Things I'm struggling with here (TL/DR below!!)
- Optimum braking points feel super vague to me across multiple corners - having to brake at such and such patch of grass has been slowly eating away at my will to live

- I may be too slow with my inputs to change the car's direction around turn 2 - I also struggle with the entry there, AND I was spinning the car because I was too aggressive hitting the rumble strip at the apex

- My approach and entry are ALL wrong at turn 3 - I've had to brake in a straight line there because all my previous attempts left the car sliding and/or entering too early - I get plenty of penalties here

- When to switch direction for turn 4 feels super vague again - I'm either cutting far too deep into the apex and picking up a penalty, or I'm fighting constant understeer AND lack of rear grip. I believe part of it is because I'm upsetting the car over bumps because of the wide line I'm taking, and because I'm turning too hard - yes, I've noticed that I can pick up half a second here with pulses of the throttle, BUT I haven't been consistent with it, and also, the tires slip for me even doing this

- Turn-in is again... super vague for Turn 5, the 85~91mph left - driving with my instincts, I enter the turn too early and slam over the apex and get unsteady over the rumble. Otherwise, I'm too late somehow, and have to coast through around 81~84mph. Possible wrong personal assumptions about corner geometry

- Don't know how to enter the big hairpin at the tower - all roads lead to the gravel trap - I've come in wide, starting with a wheel on the outside curbing, I've dive-bombed the apex to try to avoid having to coast what seems forever to get on the power. It never seems like there's a right time to get on the throttle. I'm either half a second slower than a personal golden run, or I'm understeering off into the gravel. Possible personal wrong assumptions about corner geometry

- High speed chicane is mostly fine, but I'm becoming more inconsistent here - I've widened my line by putting a wheel on the outside curb, and while at the best of times this has made me go through faster (121 mph at the first apex and up from there), I've noticed that it's become a dark art getting that to happen all the time - Once again, I'm either turning in too early and slamming over the apex, or I'm too late, too wide and either pick up a penalty or must slow down a lot (or both!) Optimum turn in point seems super vague. Possible personal wrong assumptions about corner geometry

- Medium / High speed left then right after the fast chicane are, you guessed it, super vague to me - The turn-in is off putting and confusing, but I think I'm OKish with the braking for the left hander. I sense that this is a sacrifice corner that one might have to take a tad slower to set up for the right that leads into the long straight. I struggle with track positioning on exit to set up for the right hander. Too wide, I touch the grass and slide out, or don't have enough time to slow the car down and get into position for the right. OR, I'm too close to the middle of the road, brake too early, slam the apex and take too tight a line. Most of the times I've survived this corner, I just flat out missed the apex. Also, it feels like I'm waiting forever to get on the gas. As usual, possible personal wrong assumptions about corer geometry

- Final Chicane - I'm oddly fine with this (LOL), even the stupidly fuzzy braking point just before the 100m board - Yes, I can visualize that kink of dirt/grass as my mark even as I type this. Did you know that if you hit the bollard dead center, the bollard hits back and launches your car? Ask me how I know...

- Final Right Hander - Fuzzy braking zone - the apex is in another reality - I have enough time to contemplate my existence as I wait to get on the throttle - Despite this corner being a summary of why I struggle here and find driving this track soul-crushing, I don't mind it so much. Usual issues: it never feels like the right time to get on the throttle. I don't bother using the full width of the track because of the gravel trap. Again, possible wrong assumptions about corner geometry, but this feels like the least frustrating instance, perhaps because the track designer had mercy, or the lap ends.

TL/DR: All of the corners on Nurb GP have braking, turn-in and throttle-out points that I struggle to understand either because of my lack of familiarity with the track, and/or the track perfectly (and brutally) exposes fundamental flaws and a lack of subtlety in my driving. Everything about driving this track feels fuzzy and vague in ways that, with disturbing efficiency, erode my patience.

- edited, because I ALWAYS miss at least three typos.
 
Last edited:
rheinaoi
No worries. On top of being consistently slower than the regulars in this thread, I've never, ever, been a fan of Nurb GP. This and Fuji are my least favorite tracks. I hate Fuji almost as much as I hate the Corvette C7 ZR-1 from the previous TT.

Funnily enough, I used to run with manual, D-pad steering with R2 throttle and Square for brake. A wrist injury I picked up using my wheel started to flare up again after prolonged driving sessions and I wore my D-pad down to mush - had to replace the silicone under the pad. I've been getting used to full analog steering, brake and throttle for the past several months. I'm back up to my personal pace, but I'm still iffy with trail braking.

Things I'm struggling with here (TL/DR below!!)
- Optimum braking points feel super vague to me across multiple corners - having to brake at such and such patch of grass has been slowly eating away at my will to live

- I may be too slow with my inputs to change the car's direction around turn 2 - I also struggle with the entry there, AND I was spinning the car because I was too aggressive hitting the rumble strip at the apex

- My approach and entry are ALL wrong at turn 3 - I've had to brake in a straight line there because all my previous attempts left the car sliding and/or entering too early - I get plenty of penalties here

- When to switch direction for turn 4 feels super vague again - I'm either cutting far too deep into the apex and picking up a penalty, or I'm fighting constant understeer AND lack of rear grip. I believe part of it is because I'm upsetting the car over bumps because of the wide line I'm taking, and because I'm turning too hard - yes, I've noticed that I can pick up half a second here with pulses of the throttle, BUT I haven't been consistent with it, and also, the tires slip for me even doing this

- Turn-in is again... super vague for Turn 5, the 85~91mph left - driving with my instincts, I enter the turn too early and slam over the apex and get unsteady over the rumble. Otherwise, I'm too late somehow, and have to coast through around 81~84mph. Possible wrong personal assumptions about corner geometry

- Don't know how to enter the big hairpin at the tower - all roads lead to the gravel trap - I've come in wide, starting with a wheel on the outside curbing, I've dive-bombed the apex to try to avoid having to coast what seems forever to get on the power. It never seems like there's a right time to get on the throttle. I'm either half a second slower than a personal golden run, or I'm understeering off into the gravel. Possible personal wrong assumptions about corner geometry

- High speed chicane is mostly fine, but I'm becoming more inconsistent here - I've widened my line by putting a wheel on the outside curb, and while at the best of times this has made me go through faster (121 mph at the first apex and up from there), I've noticed that it's become a dark art getting that to happen all the time - Once again, I'm either turning in too early and slamming over the apex, or I'm too late, too wide and either pick up a penalty or must slow down a lot (or both!) Optimum turn in point seems super vague. Possible personal wrong assumptions about corner geometry

- Medium / High speed left then right after the fast chicane are, you guessed it, super vague to me - The turn-in is off putting and confusing, but I think I'm OKish with the braking for the left hander. I sense that this is a sacrifice corner that one might have to take a tad slower to set up for the right that leads into the long straight. I struggle with track positioning on exit to set up for the right hander. Too wide, I touch the grass and slide out, or don't have enough time to slow the car down and get into position for the right. OR, I'm too close to the middle of the road, brake too early, slam the apex and take too tight a line. Most of the times I've survived this corner, I just flat out missed the apex. Also, it feels like I'm waiting forever to get on the gas. As usual, possible personal wrong assumptions about corer geometry

- Final Chicane - I'm oddly fine with this (LOL), even the stupidly fuzzy braking point just before the 100m board - Yes, I can visualize that kink of dirt/grass as my mark even as I type this. Did you know that if you hit the bollard dead center, the bollard hits back and launches your car? Ask me how I know...

- Final Right Hander - Fuzzy braking zone - the apex is in another reality - I have enough time to contemplate my existence as I wait to get on the throttle - Despite this corner being a summary of why I struggle here and find driving this track soul-crushing, I don't mind it so much. Usual issues: it never feels like the right time to get on the throttle. I don't bother using the full width of the track because of the gravel trap. Again, possible wrong assumptions about corner geometry, but this feels like the least frustrating instance, perhaps because the track designer had mercy, or the lap ends.

TL/DR: All of the corners on Nurb GP have braking, turn-in and throttle-out points that I struggle to understand either because of my lack of familiarity with the track, and/or the track perfectly (and brutally) exposes fundamental flaws and a lack of subtlety in my driving. Everything about driving this track feels fuzzy and vague in ways that, with disturbing efficiency, erode my patience.

- edited, because I ALWAYS miss at least three typos.
Click to expand...
Which car are you driving?
 
D_Dragline
Which car are you driving?
Click to expand...
The Porsche is my fastest at 1:57:7x.

But the Mclaren 650s is about 2 tenths off that, and that clicks best with my driving style. I believe my optimal laps are gold for both. I would run an amazing-for-me 1st sector, then throw all the progress away in the run up to the final chicane.

For randomness, I'm also running the same pace in the Mazda RX-Vision as the Mclaren despite my general distaste for FR cars and having to manage its throttle a bit more.
 
Yesterday I had final count time (before chicane) 1:27:130 - ruined at chicane :(
This morning even better, 1:27:040 - ruined at chicane...

That was both times enough for gold if last 2 corners done well.

When I see that I have so good time, my hearth starts to bumping so fast that I made so huge mistakes... :(

I should remove all screen info if possible.
 
rheinaoi
The Porsche is my fastest at 1:57:7x.

But the Mclaren 650s is about 2 tenths off that, and that clicks best with my driving style. I believe my optimal laps are gold for both. I would run an amazing-for-me 1st sector, then throw all the progress away in the run up to the final chicane.

For randomness, I'm also running the same pace in the Mazda RX-Vision as the Mclaren despite my general distaste for FR cars and having to manage its throttle a bit more.
Click to expand...

The key for the Porsche and the McLaren is to recognize that they rotate fastest when you’re coasting. In most of the turns you’re struggling with you should worry less about exact braking/throttle markers and try to rotate the car as early as possible.

To see what I mean, when you try the hairpin next, brake just after the kerb on the left and get tight to the inside. Coast around the turn until you’re pointed at the end of the exit kerb. Pin the throttle. You should see that you are maintaining high mid-corner speed AND getting on the throttle early.
 
Accelerator has worked again today..... I might just get an electrician to wire in a new cable, much cheaper than a new wheel!
Decided to try the Porsche again and clocked up a 2.02.76x which is my best by three quarters of a second! Chuffed.

Only thing that gets me is the last chicane, just before the last bend..... read it could be cut and have done so successfully several times, but other times I get a 0.5 second penalty - happened today and I crossed the line with 2.01.xxx so I was disappointed to get the penalty then. I suppose there must be a limit to how far you can cut it but I always try to keep off the grass, and usually works.
 
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@zaxs i am in very similar situation like you, and chasing half of a second to get gold. I have ideal lap several times 1:56:9xx but still can't make it. So I am probably not the one who should give advices. But what I do I actually take a video of best lap times, in this case best Porsche time, sixth place currently and then I put video of my lap in lower half screen, slow down video so I have enough time to study both.
In comparison under, for hairpin you are talking about, I clearly see that I was in second gear and started acceleration just a bit earlier than him and then we see results, just see the numbers. Now I know theoretically what to do, but when I try to do it, to nail exact that point where car is pointed to Italian flag to hit full gas, then I somehow get out in sand. So I need more practice. Hope this help somehow.


 
Common sense says you're supposed to be in the apex, like this:

Screenshot_3.png


However, what I do is slightly miss the apex like so

Screenshot_43.png


This allows you to get on power earlier and get a much more straight trajectory for the exit, making getting onto power easier with less steering. The entry to the turn is also much straighter, allowing you to brake without having to worry about turning into the turn as much.

Sometimes the exit of a turn matters much more than hooking up the apex.
 
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All this talk about apexes reminds me of how Hamilton in 2011 stated Vettel missed 3 apexes and still got pole... Yet he failed to realize that Vettel sacrificed the apex to get much better exit speed for the following straights. Can't remember which track this was though.

The 2nd hairpin is a lot like that. The "ideal" line is not actually the best. I personally go deeper to get on the gas earlier and every time I notice I always gain time like that.
This same method works also wonders in the final corner. Go deep, go down to 1st gear and coast to rotate faster and then go on the gas early mid corner, you take a few risks going into the sand, but if you nail it, it pays off about 1-2 tenths more.
 
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@rheinaoi LOL I don't even look at Fuji, what gARBAGE THAT IS, JUST SO BAD.

Sorry caps.

The line for the hairpin shown above is correct, straighten it out and treat it as a double apex. I am surprised you are losing the rear ens anywhere with the McLaren and the 911, i find them almost impossible to lose but maybe the pad makes it a bit easier.
 
This is very interesting. I'm struggling with this corner too, well all the corners but this one specially. I see that the loaded ghost veers to the right much sooner than I do, I tend to go wide to the left side and then cut to the apex, I imagine making a square line that must not be optimal.
 
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I went back to the Porsche after a handful of sessions in the Mazda the past few days. I couldn't even come close to matching my current best...which I had set in the Porsche earlier. :boggled: I know the Porsche is a great handling car, but after running the Mazda, it feels like an understeering truck now. :lol: I'll go back for a try or two in the Mazda before the end of the time trial.
 

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