TOCA7 Pre Season Thread - Approaching End Of Testing Phase.

  • Thread starter Furinkazen
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How should pre-qualifying be for TOCA7?

  • Keep the TOCA6 Quali Race format, it's fine.

    Votes: 12 63.2%
  • Run a regular quali session instead for positions 13 downwards.

    Votes: 7 36.8%

  • Total voters
    19
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Furi... Words fail me..

Btw I wouldn't call 3 weeks "loads of bloody time", and thats being generous..

Edit: Biggest picture in the world goes to Nel, jesus man..
 
Furi... Words fail me..

Btw I wouldn't call 3 weeks loads of bloody time, and that being generous..

3 weeks? Been more than that Paul. Much more than that. I started testing back in October, when TOCA6 was barely beginning.
 
Well I'm sorry but your logic defies common sence so I see it as, I cba taking time to get a proper repesentation of each cars true pace so I'll just put a high rpm tune (You said they nearly top out at end) on each that'll work..

When the truth is your screwing all the cars except the Suzuki and Honda which get all their power at or around the redline. Where as the Mini dies at high rpms, I know from racing it in multiple series no matter how much bhp it has it's allways the same. You have to hold it around the 4000-5000 mark, over that and your wasting power.

Then the BMW and VW get their torque and quite low rpms and max power quite a bit before the redline so you try and run them to a certain rpm to not let the power/torque drop off. (6200 on VW, redline 8000 so shift around 6500/6600rpm for best results and run so it hits it's max speed, without draft, around that too)

And the Infinti would do better with a bit more length in it's gears due to the fact it's limited quite alot. The Mazda is the least gearbox dependant but I allways used a hybrid setup as it has most of it's power in the higher part of the revs, around 1000 off the redline it but most of it's torque near the middle and drops off at the redline. So I ran (S4.2) a lower first 3 gears for aceleration but then widened the final 3 for better pulling power and top speed.

That is the way I look at the cars from a testing stand point.. This is hopefully helpful to those who want to run their cars as fast as possible :).
 
Well I'm sorry but your logic defies common sence so I see it as, I cba taking time to get a proper repesentation of each cars true pace so I'll just put a high rpm tune (You said they nearly top out at end) on each that'll work..

When the truth is your screwing all the cars except the Suzuki and Honda which get all their power at or around the redline. Where as the Mini dies at high rpms, I know from racing it in multiple series no matter how much bhp it has it's allways the same. You have to hold it around the 4000-5000 mark, over that and your wasting power.

Then the BMW and VW get their torque and quite low rpms and max power quite a bit before the redline so you try and run them to a certain rpm to not let the power/torque drop off. (6200 on VW, redline 8000 so shift around 6500/6600rpm for best results and run so it hits it's max speed, without draft, around that too)

And the Infinti would do better with a bit more length in it's gears due to the fact it's limited quite alot. The Mazda is the least gearbox dependant but I allways used a hybrid setup as it has most of it's power in the higher part of the revs, around 1000 off the redline it but most of it's torque near the middle and drops off at the redline. So I ran (S4.2) a lower first 3 gears for aceleration but then widened the final 3 for better pulling power and top speed.

That is the way I look at the cars from a testing stand point.. This is hopefully helpful to those who want to run their cars as fast as possible :).

True that about torque peak RPM is delivered at higher RPM with the VW with the Sports ECU.

And true every single car has an optimal operating point and range. I fail to see how my tests are useless however. Thats taking it a little far.
 
As you never ran each car to the max they could. For e.g I would never run a test where I had all the cars on the exact same setup as that'd be stupid. I mean put a FF setup on a FR and you'd just spin out.. Fr setup on a FF and you'd just understeer etc..

You should know by now I am very Plato'ish in my words. (No nonsence and to the point, that's been my nature way before BTCC btw :sly:)
 
As you never ran each car to the max they could. For e.g I would never run a test where I had all the cars on the exact same setup as that'd be stupid. I mean put a FF setup on a FR and you'd just spin out.. Fr setup on a FF and you'd just understeer etc..

I never do that. FF's and FR's and 4WD for that matter all require totally different tuning styles. As pointed out by gokartman, a 4WD has 2 LSD's to use.
 
Exactly... In my eyes the same applys to gearboxes and engines..
 
And at end of the day its a bloody game and before we even did drag tests or anything we still had brilliant racing. This has gone for 6 seasons (really 7) and there is no need o change anything major in terms of overhauls of how things are done.
 
Can I just say, straight line speed tests are virtually useless anyway, I really fail to see the point in testing them, you would be better off spending your time testing on a track than messing around with gearing :rolleyes:
 
Can I just say, straight line speed tests are virtually useless anyway, I really fail to see the point in testing them, you would be better off spending your time testing on a track than messing around with gearing :rolleyes:

Must admit this has been my experience too.:nervous:
 
Can I just say, straight line speed tests are virtually useless anyway, I really fail to see the point in testing them, you would be better off spending your time testing on a track than messing around with gearing :rolleyes:

Both are useful. And for that exact point in second post there is no point in messing with gearing, races are won not on straight line speed alone.
 
Oh yeah...

S4.2 VW Furi.. No one could even pass the damn thing on Le Sarthes straights.. But then that was the nail in the coffin of 4.2.
 
Oh yeah...

S4.2 VW Furi.. No one could even pass the damn thing on Le Sarthes straights.. But then that was the nail in the coffin of 4.2.

Oh yeah well one car is always going to be fastest. But I get blame for that don't I?

Nice change of subject Paul by the way :)
 
But Spurgy.. JB actually knows what he is doing and takes advice from others :sly::lol:. Hence why BST is so close ;).

And yes you do, it was 10mph faster than the second fastest car back then.. (Le Sarthe)

While it's not stupidly fast now, which is good, I was using it to prove a point that your speed run was less than useful, but perhaps not completely useless.
 
We didn't use straight line speed tests for balancing the V8 S5 cars did we and they were within a couple of tenths ;)

All i did was make sure they were all within 2/3 mph of each other before braking at the end of the Monza/Fuji straight dont know if thats a test or not.:dopey:

Like Gedi says though you would have won in a Fiat 500 so testings pretty pointless anyway.:D
 
But Spurgy.. JB actually knows what he is doing and takes advice from others :sly::lol:. Hence why BST is so close ;).

And Furi knows what he is doing and takes advice, which is why this is still going after six seasons. Seriously the cheap shots are getting boring now.
 
Read my damned edits every once and a while.

paulmac2k9
And yes you do, it was 10mph faster than the second fastest car back then.. (Le Sarthe)

While it's not stupidly fast now, which is good, I was using it to prove a point that your speed run was less than useful, but perhaps not completely useless.

While I am being half funny and am actually trying to help, be serious too.
 
And Furi knows what he is doing and takes advice, which is why this is still going after six seasons. Seriously the cheap shots are getting boring now.

You gotta admit when the advice is given and subsequently excepted its usually a little to late lesson to be learnt there perhaps.👍
 
And point of testing to get everything specced up nicely, that's why I asked you guys to help. I have 4 contenders for my Season 4 car...
 
Hmm someones dead outside our house.. (An ambulance is outside my window)

It seems Furi assisnated the wrong person :P.
 
Both are useful. And for that exact point in second post there is no point in messing with gearing, races are won not on straight line speed alone.

Not entirely true. Optimising your gearing for each specific track can gain you a hell of a lot of time (~1 second). However it's also very time consuming, and it is not due to extra straight line speed but being in the powerband and right gear exiting corners. 👍

However, as long as the cars are within a second of each other on the track, I don't think it matters. Then it's up to the driver to squeeze every last bit out of their car. :indiff:
 
I like Cape Ring South and I've grown to like Autumn Ring. Clubman Stage Reverse I hate with a passion. Blind corners at night just calls for carnage. Doesn't help that I'm really bad at it. The standard "forward" version I find slightly better, mainly because of the fast entry into the long tunnel-corner (which is totally ruined by running it in reverse).

Sorry, did I interrupt the bashing of unfinished specs?

I would suggest running a couple more tests and see where we end up. Everyone's got a point. In the end, it's laptimes that count though, and we'll see those only when enough people give the cars a go with different setups. Best example is me and the Honda - I just can't make that work, but some people can.

For now, from my point of view, we already have Mazda, BMW, Infiniti and apparently Honda on similar speeds ... I'm pretty sure there's a way VW and Audi can be spec'd so they can compete, and we'll see about the Suzuki and Mini. But even there you could take more weight out, if necessary.

So, let's not jump to conclusions just yet, it's a little earlier to be at each other's throat already.
 
What happened to just racing on real tracks Furry?
 
I like Cape Ring South and I've grown to like Autumn Ring. Clubman Stage Reverse I hate with a passion. Blind corners at night just calls for carnage. Doesn't help that I'm really bad at it. The standard "forward" version I find slightly better, mainly because of the fast entry into the long tunnel-corner (which is totally ruined by running it in reverse).

Sorry, did I interrupt the bashing of unfinished specs?

I would suggest running a couple more tests and see where we end up. Everyone's got a point. In the end, it's laptimes that count though, and we'll see those only when enough people give the cars a go with different setups. Best example is me and the Honda - I just can't make that work, but some people can.

For now, from my point of view, we already have Mazda, BMW, Infiniti and apparently Honda on similar speeds ... I'm pretty sure there's a way VW and Audi can be spec'd so they can compete, and we'll see about the Suzuki and Mini. But even there you could take more weight out, if necessary.

So, let's not jump to conclusions just yet, it's a little earlier to be at each other's throat already.

Guess its like you in the Viper you cant make it work yet others really can theres an element of truth in what you state.:sly:
 
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