Top Gear Comparo Thread.

[Car-less]

Top Gear Comparason #6: Classic Muscle Car

Round 5 Results

You were sent to a nice curvy racetrack to see how well your cars went round corners. Bob set a target time of 1:41.251 in the Buick Special. You gained or lost 1 point for every half second you were faster or slower than the target.

Shotamagee was the fastest, a 1:42.936 in the Charger 440 was only 1.685 second behind Bob costing -3 points.
runfromcheney clocked in a 1:43.514 in the Mecury Cougar, 2.263 seconds slower than Bob he loses -4 points.
BH-21 didn't do too badly, a 1:44.561 in the Pontiac GTO was 3.310 seconds behind Bob costing -6 points.
GrumpEone eventually posted a 1:47.687 in the Chevelle SS 454, 6.436 seconds slower than Bob he loses -12 points.
Jet Badger couldn't keep up, a 1:47.999 in the Plymouth 'Cuda was 6.748 seconds behind Bob for a loss of -13 points.

GrumpEtoo took a leasurly drive in his Dodge Charger Super Bee and posted a 1:49.318, 8.067 seconds behind Bob he loses -16 points.
GrumpEthree was also taking it easy in the Plymouth Super Bird, a 1:47.120 was 5.869 seconds behind bob for a loss of -11 points.
runfromcheney was outclassed in his alternative choice, the GNX was only capable of 1:47.545 which at 6.294 seconds slower lost him -12 points.



Final Scores

Driver			Car	Cost	Muscle	Drag	Power	Lap	Total
=============================================================================
GrumpEone      Chevelle SS 454	 +6	+45	+40	+9	-12	 88
shotamagee	   Charger 440	 +4	+44	+30	+12	-3	 87
runfromcheney	Mercury Cougar 	 +10	+39	+20	+9	-4	 74
BH-21	    	   Pontiac GTO	 +9	+38	+10	+15	-6	 66
Jet Badger	Plymouth 'Cuda   +8	+44	+0	+20	-13	 59

GrumpEthree	    Super Bird	 +11	+42	+30	+14	-11	 86
GrumpEtoo    Charger Super Bee   +4	+42	+40	+11	-16	 81
runfromcheney	     Buick GNX	 +13	+23	+10	+10	-12	 44

After a very long day, GrumpEone was only just able to stay ahead, winning this set of challenges by just 1 point over shotamagee.

His alternative choices however were easilly able to stay ahead of the GNX with next to no effort. Looks like a muscle car without a V8 is just not worthy of the label! As for those with a V8, it doesn't make too much difference. Final standings fell in the same order as the dragrace results, and in your modified cars these were within 0.6 seconds of each other. It really was that close.

And on that bombshell I'm off to bed. Good Night.

 

[BH-21]

Congrats GrumpEone, and go muscle cars! Though I would prefer a longer gear set, I understand completely the arena they were built to excell in, the American City or Highway.

* Thanks Car-Less for another interesting round. You've been carrying the ball on these for awhile now. Jet Badger ran a good one maybe he will try again, though I don't think GrumpEone will have the time for awhile. *

 

[runfromcheney]

Congrats GrumpEone!

So, what challenge are we doing next?

 

[Jet Badger]

Well done, GrumpEone and Car-Less Though I probably wont participate in the upcoming challenges, because the summer very suddenly kicked in (from ~+5C at day to almost +20C in one week) and I already disassembled my racing rig (moved the junkyard seat from the livingroom )

 

[SVX]

Congrats GrumpEone! Nail biter of a win though!

 

[GrumpEone]

Congrats GrumpEone,...
...though I don't think GrumpEone will have the time for awhile. *

You are right, even though I am only working 4 days a week, they are all 12 hours days, which doesn't allow me to be a good host for a competition like this, which requires daily maintenance after the initial start deadline. So I haven't really expanded my ideas, with trials to make sure they would work well, and the competition run smoothly.

Congrats GrumpEone!

Well done, GrumpEone and Car-Less Though I probably wont participate in the upcoming challenges, because the summer very suddenly kicked in (from ~+5C at day to almost +20C in one week) and I already disassembled my racing rig (moved the junkyard seat from the livingroom )

Bummer, it was great running with you, hopefully you will still make it to the Sunday Cup. I guess GT4 has become a winter sport.

Congrats GrumpEone! Nail biter of a win though!

Thanks for the congrats guys, I'm just lucky that I was able to do a few more runs before the deadline, or I wouldn't have won, even though I was still unhappy with my times.

 

[SVX]

I haven't won before, but I could give it a go hosting the comparo.

 

[BH-21]

SVX, I think at this point, who ever starts one, runs one. So lay it on us!

 

[runfromcheney]

Go ahead SVX! I have a few ideas, but finals are just around the corner so I don't have the time right now.

 

[SVX]

What does everyone think of used wagons?

 

[BH-21]

I've been trying to think of something to use a station wagon for, this would be perfect. Oh the joys of zipping down the Autobann to Munich in a station wagon going 120mph, darn memorys. Oh if we hadn't brought the 1020 plus pounds of ballast/passengers.

👍

 

[Car-less]

Go for it.

Station wagons are a bit thin on the ground in GT4, and limiting them to just used versions thins them out even more, but there should be just enough choices available under 20,000 cr. Similarly, there should be just enough new wagons under 50,000 cr.

 

[SVX]

Am I allowed to enter myself?

----

Top Gear Comparo #7: Station Wagon

​

The Producers have caused a stir in the Top Gear office recently. Babbling on about how a coupe is the only way to have a fun car, and be practical. Your mission is to prove them wrong!
Obtain yourself a used or new road going station wagon worth up to 40,000Cr. I would advise you to keep a couple thousand for spending money. You can get these by buying brand-new, used or winning one.

* Please do not modify your cars, other than giving it an oil change and changing the wheels. These will cost nothing to your budget.

** Prize cars will be valued at 4.7x their resale price.

*** Since there are not a whole lot of cars available, I will only restrict you on the specific car.

**** You will be racing against a Nissan Skyline GT-R '99, with out oil change. 300BHP it has.

***** You will have a 24 hour lateness limit. If you don't get your time in time, you will have one point deducted from your final score for how many hours you were late from the 24 hour limit. Unless you have a good reason.

You have 50 hours.

 

[Car-less]

Am I allowed to enter myself?

** Prize cars will be valued at 2x their resale price, so a resale price of up to 20,000Cr is permitted.

**** You will be racing against a Nissan Skyline GT-R '99, with out oil change. 300BHP it has.

***** You will have a 24 hour lateness limit. If you don't get your time in time, you will have one point deducted from your final score for how many hours you were late from the 24 hour limit. Unless you have a good reason.

I always thought it would be unfair for the producer to compete as they had devised the scoring system and would know what sorts of things would score well.


** I'll mention this as the Infinity FX45 is a SUV, the Volvo 240 is the slowest by quite a margin, and the Renault Avantime is... well what exactly is it?

The figure of 4.7x that I previously used was not chosen randomly, but is a close approximation to the actual value which I worked out like this;

Take the resale price of a new car like the Gillett Vertigo - 212,499cr.
Add 1 credit, don't ask me why, it's just the way it is - 212,500cr.
Multiply by 4 as you also would for a used car to get - 850,000cr.
Divide by 0.85 (assume the other 150,000cr is sales tax) - 1,000,000cr = dealer price.

The last two steps work for any car bought from the new or legendary dealers with 0 miles, but the extra 1cr is a bit hit and miss.

Cars like the Renault Avantime that can be bought new or won as a prize have the same resale values no matter how you got them, so the same formula works for both dealer cars and prize cars.


**** Is there a reason we're not being compared to a wagon such as the Audi RS4 (41,380cr, 385bhp) or Audi RS6 Avant (117,060cr, 453bhp)?

***** So we can be up to 24 hours late without penalty? - not that I plan on missing any deadlines.


Anyway, I'm off to find myself another bug-eyed '00 Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon Sti. 279bhp. Cost will hopefully be 14,990cr, but could go as high as 19,486cr.

 

[BH-21]

Top Gear Comparo #7: Station Wagon

Car: Subaru Impreza Wagon WRX STi Version VI '99
Cost: 18,973 CR
Drive Train: 4WD
Horsepower: 286 (Oiled)​

 

[SVX]

The figure of 4.7x that I previously used was not chosen randomly, but is a close approximation to the actual value which I worked out like this;

Take the resale price of a new car like the Gillett Vertigo - 212,499cr.
Add 1 credit, don't ask me why, it's just the way it is - 212,500cr.
Multiply by 4 as you also would for a used car to get - 850,000cr.
Divide by 0.85 (assume the other 150,000cr is sales tax) - 1,000,000cr = dealer price.

The last two steps work for any car bought from the new or legendary dealers with 0 miles, but the extra 1cr is a bit hit and miss.

I'll fix that now. With the last one, did you calculate what the max resale price from the most expensive one that is eligible?

**** Is there a reason we're not being compared to a wagon such as the Audi RS4 (41,380cr, 385bhp) or Audi RS6 Avant (117,060cr, 453bhp)?

Yes. I forgot. A bit too late now. I tested the Skyline on the track we're going to be racing on, and I compared it to my Bug eye STi, that I was going to enter (decided against it as it would become tricky to enter and do this) and they were 3 or 4 different. I think you would be able to get past that.

***** So we can be up to 24 hours late without penalty? - not that I plan on missing any deadlines.

Yep.

Anyway, I'm off to find myself another bug-eyed '00 Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon Sti. 279bhp. Cost will hopefully be 14,990cr, but could go as high as 19,486cr.

Nice! That was the same car I got, it's 19,000 credits. I accidentally bought it and forgot to write down the price.

 

[Car-less]

1) I'll fix that now. With the last one, did you calculate what the max resale price from the most expensive one that is eligible?

2) Yes. I forgot. A bit too late now. I tested the Skyline on the track we're going to be racing on, and I compared it to my Bug eye STi, that I was going to enter (decided against it as it would become tricky to enter and do this) and they were 3 or 4 different. I think you would be able to get past that.

3) Nice! That was the same car I got, it's 19,000 credits. I accidentally bought it and forgot to write down the price.

1) My spreadsheet already lists the maximum, minimum and medium prices for each used car, so what I've been doing for each set of challenges is to copy all appropriate cars to a new tab then compare their specs to decide on detailed entry requirements.

Last time, I knew at a glance that the Shelby Cobra 427 and AC 427 were way too expensive, and that cars before 1960 or after 1979 rarely fit the spec of a muscle car. The only real casualty was the Shelby Mustang GT350 that was just a little too expensive at 106,110cr.

2) I tend to test 3 'oddball' choices against the 'outsider' comparason car. Last time the 'outsider' was the pre-tuned Buick Special, and the 'oddballs' were the '74 Jensen Interceptor, '69 Corvette Stingray and '67 Mercury Cougar. I try to test with 'oddball' cars that I don't expect people to enter.

3) I already have an unused blue one with a resale price of 4,871cr which my spreadsheet tells me cost 19,486cr to buy. It also tells me that the same car can be bought for just 14,990cr on 14 occasions per cycle. I'm trying to find one of these cheaper ones to enter before the first challenge, otherwise I will just enter my existing mid priced one.

 

[fbccars924]

hello guy it is I the humble,(chuckles) yeah right, Fbccars924. I have come to bear some good news. My access to the net and my old flame gt4 will be slowly getting more and more stable. I will hopefully be enjoying the pure enjoyment of top gear comparos within the next few weeks.

 

[BH-21]

Welcome back, we kept your chair warm!

 

[Korza]

Here's what I have got

​

It's a 1998 Nissan Stagea 260RS Tuned by Autech.
It currently has 280BHP and 360NM of torque and has had an oil change and a new set of rims. This magnificent piece of engineering excellence cost me only Cr.22,500.

Bring on the first challenge!

 

[SVX]

1) My spreadsheet already lists the maximum, minimum and medium prices for each used car, so what I've been doing for each set of challenges is to copy all appropriate cars to a new tab then compare their specs to decide on detailed entry requirements.

Does you spreadsheet have the most expensive wagon? I think it's the RS4/RS6? If it does, could you please post it? Thanks.

Last time, I knew at a glance that the Shelby Cobra 427 and AC 427 were way too expensive, and that cars before 1960 or after 1979 rarely fit the spec of a muscle car. The only real casualty was the Shelby Mustang GT350 that was just a little too expensive at 106,110cr.

2) I tend to test 3 'oddball' choices against the 'outsider' comparason car. Last time the 'outsider' was the pre-tuned Buick Special, and the 'oddballs' were the '74 Jensen Interceptor, '69 Corvette Stingray and '67 Mercury Cougar. I try to test with 'oddball' cars that I don't expect people to enter.

3) I already have an unused blue one with a resale price of 4,871cr which my spreadsheet tells me cost 19,486cr to buy. It also tells me that the same car can be bought for just 14,990cr on 14 occasions per cycle. I'm trying to find one of these cheaper ones to enter before the first challenge, otherwise I will just enter my existing mid priced one.

Ok, thanks for the good help.

 

[shotamagee]

I do the exact same thing as car less does, when picking a car for these things.

The most expensive wagon (Well I'm pretty sure) is indeed the RS6 Avant which lists for $117060.

Make Audi
Model RS6 Avant
Year 2002
Cost 117060
Drive 4WD
Cyls V8
Disp 4172
Power 443
Torque 413
Mass 1880
PWR 236

I'll pick a car some within the next 12 hours, when i get home.

 

[runfromcheney]

Well, the used lot didn't exactly have the biggest wagon selection in the world, so I bought a brand new 2003 Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0 GT.


Horsepower: 278
Torque: 253
Weight: 1,430 Kg
Dimensions: 4680x1730x1470
Price: 28,800 Cr.

 

[shotamagee]

I went to the trouble of making a spreadsheet of all the eligible cars, so I was all set to pick the Legnum VR-4 but then I decided to pick the Volvo for some reason, well at least it was cheap.

Driver: Shotamagee
Car: Volvo 240 GLT Estate
Cost: $5571
Power: 129 (after oil change)
Weight: 1890

I even bought some new rims for it, I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've ever done that.

Edit: Lol runfromcheney gets in a few minutes before me this time, at least we didn't pick the same car this time.

 

[GrumpEone]

Top Gear Comparo #7: Station Wagon

Mitsubishi LEGNUM VR-4 Type V '98



Power: 247 HP
Engine: V6 : DOHC
Disp.: 2,498 cc
Dimensions: 4,740 x 1,740 x 1,450
Weight: 1,550 kg
Drivetrain: 4WD
Mileage: 25,345.4 miles

Price: 14,250 CR
Balance: 25,750 CR
​

Shotamagee, I was thinking of the Volvo too, well I guess I'll take your other thought, in the Legnum.

 

[SVX]

EDIT: For some reason can't do your method. I do the sell price and then do your method, but I don't get the acquire price from your steps.

I do the exact same thing as car less does, when picking a car for these things.

The most expensive wagon (Well I'm pretty sure) is indeed the RS6 Avant which lists for $117060.

Make Audi
Model RS6 Avant
Year 2002
Cost 117060
Drive 4WD
Cyls V8
Disp 4172
Power 443
Torque 413
Mass 1880
PWR 236

I'll pick a car some within the next 12 hours, when i get home.

Ok, thanks very much for that.

I went to the trouble of making a spreadsheet of all the eligible cars, so I was all set to pick the Legnum VR-4 but then I decided to pick the Volvo for some reason, well at least it was cheap.

Driver: Shotamagee
Car: Volvo 240 GLT Estate
Cost: $5571
Power: 129 (after oil change)
Weight: 1890

I even bought some new rims for it, I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've ever done that.

Edit: Lol runfromcheney gets in a few minutes before me this time, at least we didn't pick the same car this time.

Thank you lots for going to the trouble to make a spreadsheet for this comparo.

 

[Car-less]

EDIT: For some reason can't do your method. I do the sell price and then do your method, but I don't get the acquire price from your steps.

Does the car have any mileage on it? I believe that can affect the resale price.
Is the acquire price a nice round number like the example 1 million credits? If not, things can be a bit funny - the Renault Avantime for example;
Resale price = 11,171
Multiply by 4 = 44,684
divide by 0.85 = 52,569.41176...
Not quite the aquire price of 52,570, but close enough.

Anyway, I got bored of looking for a cheap bugeye in a decent colour, so have decided to go with the mid priced blue one.

Car-less Clarkson (main entry) arrived first in a "sports car with a little bit of extra roof tacked on the back", a Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon Sti '00 that he bought used for 19,486cr. It had 279hp which increased to 309hp after an oil change.

Captain Careless (1st alternative) wasn't far behind in a Toyota Caldina GT-Four '02 that he got from a main dealer for 27,100cr. This sported 260hp when he got it, but 273hp after a quick oil change.

The Clampster (2nd alternative) arrived last in a monster Honda Odyssey '03. He had bought this car new for 28,650cr, with a measly 160hp that was increased to 169hp after an oil change.

 

[shotamagee]

@ SVX, I'll PM my spreadsheet to ya when I get a chance, although i dunno if its much use now that everyone (or close to it) has picked a car.

 

[SVX]

Thanks! That would be greatly kind of you to do that.

 

[Car-less]

The datasheet I've got for this week shows the following data - some of the other 11 tabs (not included) contain more info such as laptimes, used car cycles and number of colours.

[B]Ref.	Origin	Make	    Model				Year	Drive	Engine	CC	Power	Weight	Pwr/Wt	High	Price	Low	Obt.	Ranking
[COLOR="Red"]0045	Germany	Audi	    RS 4				2001	4WD	V6:DOHC	2671	385	1620	0.238		¢41,380		N	320
0047	Germany	Audi	    RS 6 Avant				2002	4WD	V8:DOHC	4172	453	1880	0.241		¢117,060	N	329[/COLOR][/B]
0232	Japan	Honda	    Odyssey				2003	4WD	L4:DOHC	2354	160	1700	0.094		¢28,650		N	645
[B][COLOR="Blue"]0277	USA	Lexus	    IS300 Sport Cross			2001	FR	L6:DOHC	2997	220	1470	0.150		¢27,600		N	474
0379	Japan	Mitsubishi  Airtrek Turbo-R			2002	4WD	L4:DOHC	1997	241	1520	0.159		¢22,950		N	466[/COLOR][/B]
0419	Japan	Mitsubishi  Legnum VR-4 Type V			1998	4WD	V6:DOHC	2498	247	1550	0.159	¢18,524	¢16,387	¢14,250	U	467
0529	Japan	Nissan	    Stagea 25t RS Four S		1998	4WD	L6:DOHC	2498	255	1650	0.155	¢21,189	¢18,745	¢16,300	U	469
0530	Japan	Nissan	    Stagea 260RS AutechVersion		1998	4WD	L6:DOHC	2568	257	1720	0.149	¢29,249	¢25,875	¢22,500	U	431
0609	Japan	Subaru	    Impreza Sport Wagon Sti		2000	4WD	Boxer4	1994	279	1430	0.195	¢22,485	¢19,486	¢14,990	U	292
[B][COLOR="Green"]0612	Japan	Subaru	    Impreza Wagon WRX Sti		1999	4WD	Boxer4	1994	259	1310	0.198	¢18,973	¢16,784	¢14,595	U	331
0612	Japan	Subaru	    Impreza Wagon WRX Sti		1999	4WD	Boxer4	1994	287	1310	0.219		¢24,811		S	331[/COLOR][/B]
0618	Japan	Subaru	    Legacy Touring Wagon GT-B		1996	4WD	Boxer4	1994	253	1430	0.177	¢14,665	¢12,465	¢10,265	U	408
0619	Japan	Subaru	    Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0GT		2003	4WD	Boxer4	1994	282	1430	0.197		¢28,800		N	377
0620	Japan	Subaru	    Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0GT Spec B	2003	4WD	Boxer4	1994	282	1450	0.194		¢30,300		N	376
0621	Japan	Subaru	    Legacy Touring Wagon 3.0R		2003	4WD	Boxer6	2999	250	1480	0.169		¢30,000		N	456
0642	Japan	Toyota	    Caldina GT-Four			2002	4WD	L4:DOHC	1998	260	1480	0.176		¢27,100		N	427
[B][COLOR="Green"]0712	Sweden	Volvo	    240 GLT Estate			1988	FR	L4:SOHC	2300	116	1890	0.061	---	¢5,571	---	U	690
0712	Sweden	Volvo	    240 GLT Estate			1988	FR	L4:SOHC	2300	129	1890	0.068		¢13,531		S	690
0712	Sweden	Volvo	    240 GLT Estate			1988	FR	L4:SOHC	2300	129	1890	0.068		¢15,920		P	690[/COLOR][/B]

Those highlighted in red are too expensive to enter.
Those highlighted in blue are unrepresented in the competition so far.
Those highlighted in green are available from more than 1 source.

Initially the datasheet included more cars such as the Infinity FX45, Renault Avantime and Honda Jazz, but these were dropped for not really being station wagons.